Xavier, Wed., Dec. 28, 9p, FS-1

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My take after watching the broadcast is that the players just tune him out. From ignoring his “weave” call to bad body language, and no eye contact. The Xavier guys were locked in on Miller and focused. Our guys look checked out. It was a really bad look. Maybe the mic got into Andersons head a little too because he was very scatter brain all night. But in the end it just confirmed what we mostly knew…very little if any strategy comes from the bench. There is no direction and less and less cohesion as the games go. Wusu appeared to be the only guy engaged.

This could be a mess the rest of the way or we could pull together and win some games but either way this was a show me season for Anderson. He’s shown me nothing. It’s looking like time has run out.
 
Like the Nova game, given some thought overnight, my thoughts re:

1. It is hard to foresee that this team will all of a sudden correct itself. The all access revealed that there is very little in-game coaching, and one can speculate that there is not as lot of it going on in practice. Miller's coaching exhibited the use of pre-panned schemes and sets, and we had the weave.

2. Soriano has been so important to the early successes, but the realization must be made that he is what he is. A big body, a guy who worked hard to get in shape and improve , but someone who was recruited to Fordham and who has a still developing game. Not sure he has maxed out, but against the bigger and more physical BE centers and power forwards, he does not play with the same confidence or proficiency as he did against smaller opponents.

3. Posh/Curbello experiment is a failure. It is mostly attributable to Posh not being the primary ball handler, in my opinion, and Curbelo's penchant for a rushed, sloppy style. Andre is capable of great plays and more capable of throwing the ball inadvisably away. Posh just can't buy even the gimme put backs that he was so successful at the first 2 seasons. He is not playing the same defense he had in the past and is not as sure with the ball as he was either. I think his issues are mental and he's kinda checked out.

4. Jones is mystifying, but overall assessment is that he is a nice piece on a good team but not a core team guy. He just seems to try to get his points and that causes him to make some very questionable shots and to play against his strengths (i.e., around the basket). Last night he definitely cut down on the bad 3s, but he did not do enough of the other things (particularly rebounding) to really help the team.

5. As has been noted by others, body language and lack of eye contact is telling. Thye guys do not respond to coach, or his instructions. The complete lack of their response to his calling for the weave (as inadvisable as that play calling may be in our minds) evidences a serious lack of respect or discipline or both. There were multiple examples of that in this game. Sadly, even our past bad teams usually were never outworked, but this team, especially in the past 2 games, were completely out hustled and outworked. That is again a sign of checking out as a team and basically going thru the motions.

6. Sub pattern confusion and inconsistency and overuse of certain guys continues; that is just the way this staff operates. I expect a number of guys to leave (Storr, Posh are prime candidates) due to under use or misuse. Nyiwe got some burn and looked OK when in there for the most part, but played only a few minutes; should have gotten more burn.

7. Not sure what is wrong w/ Pinzon, but I don't think he would have made a difference in the margins. He would have given a more diversified offensive look, but he has been inconsistent. They guy I think who gets decent minutes but could have a bigger impact is Mathis, of all people. he is pretty steady and just does not get the ball enough, or have anything called for him to utilize his strengths. He usually is subsumed by the hero-ball that Jones, Curbelo, Wusu and others play.

8. The talent level and athleticism and depth are greater with this team than past teams. But, the whole is not greater than the sum of its parts. There is no coherence or team chemistry. Bringing Curbelo here was a calculated risk, but has failed miserably and was a mistake.

9. I see no NCAA berth (and maybe not an NIT). Very very disappointing (maybe the most disappointing team I recall, ever, in 45 years of watching).

10. As painful an another "rebuild" would be, I don't see coach coming back, and that would not be a bad thing. We know what it is and it ain't winning the important ones. Coach is an honorable guy and a man who is a great role model for kids, but as others have noted, it seems that his style and approiach are outdated and do not fit with what college basketball currently demansd for success.
 
St. John’s fans are learning what Arkansas fans knew when Arkansas fired Coach Anderson.

Yep, Mike Anderson by all accounts is a high quality individual but seemingly the game has passed him by.

Over the past 23 years the long ball 3 point shot has become an integral part of the current game but CMA seems to run his 1999 offense which consists of merely running up and down the court with an unstructured offense.

The “miked up” feature of last nights game was not flattering to CMA demonstrating his StJ’s team members largely ignored his comments which helps explain why CM’s teams have only made the NCAA Tournament 3 of the past 11 years; after this season it will likely be 3 of the past 12 seasons.

It is time for President Shanley and Mike Cragg to consider alternatives.

——————-

One quick question: Does anyone know how many years are left on Anderson’s extended contract with St. John’s ?
 
All things being equal Posh should probably come off the bench until he gets straight
At this point he should also just not shoot threes.
 
I’m not ready to write the season off and still believe this group has a few good wins in them. However, a good win, for this team, may be an occasional win against a middle of the pack Big East team at home. And that may be all we can expect from this team and staff. Whether that will be good enough to make a post season tourney is questionable but it is what it is.

There are mistakes that are made that were evident from the very first game but were camouflaged by the level of completion. If the team took bad shots and missed them, they had the athleticism to get an offensive board and put them back in. Now against better competition that’s not happening and what shots they do get are challenged.

And now you see why posters that know the game were concerned early on with the play and coaching of this team.
 
fan5577 said:
David Jones has been a big disappointment. Plays very much out of control; crazy out of control shots. They are forcing a lot of poor shots!!!!!
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In all fairness to Jones, if you watched the DePaul team last year, they played a more structured offense where Jones ran off screens and set plays to get him open or set up for a drive.

Anderson’s system is more freelance where players have to create for themselves. Jones is struggling with this and the staff needs to get him more involved through some sets designed just for him.
 
redmanwest said:
Like the Nova game, given some thought overnight, my thoughts re:

1. It is hard to foresee that this team will all of a sudden correct itself. The all access revealed that there is very little in-game coaching, and one can speculate that there is not as lot of it going on in practice. Miller's coaching exhibited the use of pre-panned schemes and sets, and we had the weave.

2. Soriano has been so important to the early successes, but the realization must be made that he is what he is. A big body, a guy who worked hard to get in shape and improve , but someone who was recruited to Fordham and who has a still developing game. Not sure he has maxed out, but against the bigger and more physical BE centers and power forwards, he does not play with the same confidence or proficiency as he did against smaller opponents.

3. Posh/Curbello experiment is a failure. It is mostly attributable to Posh not being the primary ball handler, in my opinion, and Curbelo's penchant for a rushed, sloppy style. Andre is capable of great plays and more capable of throwing the ball inadvisably away. Posh just can't buy even the gimme put backs that he was so successful at the first 2 seasons. He is not playing the same defense he had in the past and is not as sure with the ball as he was either. I think his issues are mental and he's kinda checked out.

4. Jones is mystifying, but overall assessment is that he is a nice piece on a good team but not a core team guy. He just seems to try to get his points and that causes him to make some very questionable shots and to play against his strengths (i.e., around the basket). Last night he definitely cut down on the bad 3s, but he did not do enough of the other things (particularly rebounding) to really help the team.

5. As has been noted by others, body language and lack of eye contact is telling. Thye guys do not respond to coach, or his instructions. The complete lack of their response to his calling for the weave (as inadvisable as that play calling may be in our minds) evidences a serious lack of respect or discipline or both. There were multiple examples of that in this game. Sadly, even our past bad teams usually were never outworked, but this team, especially in the past 2 games, were completely out hustled and outworked. That is again a sign of checking out as a team and basically going thru the motions.

6. Sub pattern confusion and inconsistency and overuse of certain guys continues; that is just the way this staff operates. I expect a number of guys to leave (Storr, Posh are prime candidates) due to under use or misuse. Nyiwe got some burn and looked OK when in there for the most part, but played only a few minutes; should have gotten more burn.

7. Not sure what is wrong w/ Pinzon, but I don't think he would have made a difference in the margins. He would have given a more diversified offensive look, but he has been inconsistent. They guy I think who gets decent minutes but could have a bigger impact is Mathis, of all people. he is pretty steady and just does not get the ball enough, or have anything called for him to utilize his strengths. He usually is subsumed by the hero-ball that Jones, Curbelo, Wusu and others play.

8. The talent level and athleticism and depth are greater with this team than past teams. But, the whole is not greater than the sum of its parts. There is no coherence or team chemistry. Bringing Curbelo here was a calculated risk, but has failed miserably and was a mistake.

9. I see no NCAA berth (and maybe not an NIT). Very very disappointing (maybe the most disappointing team I recall, ever, in 45 years of watching).

10. As painful an another "rebuild" would be, I don't see coach coming back, and that would not be a bad thing. We know what it is and it ain't winning the important ones. Coach is an honorable guy and a man who is a great role model for kids, but as others have noted, it seems that his style and approiach are outdated and do not fit with what college basketball currently demansd for success.
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Excellent post. Just a few comments on #8: while we have some talent, right now we have only one player who is playing anywhere close to an all-Big East level, and that's Soriano. And we still need to see how he does moving forward against better comp before anointing him an All Big East caliber player. We also lack some components of a talented team. For one, we lack a shooter, that's where we sorely miss Champ. In spite of what many on our fanbase proclaimed, Jones is no Champ. Second, we lack length, which is crucial to our press and our uptempo game. Especially in the backcourt. Lastly we lack size(combined with skill) up front to support Soriano. This team was poorly assembled and it shows. IMO another coach, with an actually offensive game plan, would have recognized this and found the kids with the skill sets needed to balance out the roster. Seems like the better big east coaches all know how to do this every year. McDermott in particular is adept at this. As is Smart and others.

So while I agree that we have some talent, overall I would not call us a particularly "talented team".
 
SJU61982 said:
I think I was the only one on here that really pushed for his firing after last year, and thought it was a mistake to bring him back. Even Mark Schmidt or King Rice would have been a better option, if not the sexiest names. Of course, I wanted Tim Cluess last time around, so it shows you what I know.

Although I saw things almost from the start that I was concerned about, my main gripe is that he is too "old school.". His big mistake, IMO, was essentially kicking Moore and Cole off the team, either because he didn't like their style of play, and/or their attitudes. Who knows what went on there, but you have to live with it sometimes. I don't know if those guys had any eligibility left, but they would have helped this team (last year, too). Moore would be another banger inside with at least some offensive game, and Cole could at least hit the occasional three. Anderson seems to want a very specific kind of player, and I'm not sure that kind of player exists. Sadly, Wusu is probably the closest thing to it on this team (at least Mathis is justifying his playing time this year).

I also wish he tailored his game plans more to the opponent. He just seems to believe his style will win out in the end. I'd have less of a problem with this, if he had someone on the bench to help him out with this. I have no issue with the assistants who are here, but they seem to function primarily as the Coach's mouthpiece (at least during games).

Lastly, he's a good, decent, sane guy, in a profession dominated by crazy men who break all sorts of rules. In the end, that could be the most difficult obstacle of all.
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Moore was a head case who didn’t play particularly well at his next stop before leaving again. Did you read the racist crap he posted? Cole was too slow to play effectively at this level.
 
ericktheres said:
Total lack of basketball IQ, name the last two players playing on the same SJU team together that had high bball IQ! No we have some of the best athletes running around lost on D and offense, it’s not solely an anderson problem it goes back years and years. I’m done watching and wasting money for the same old crap
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Agree this is the dumbest (basketball IQ) SJU team of all time, and we have had quite a few dumb teams over the last 15 years. Please stop recruiting athletes and recruit basketball players.
 
Boo Harvey said:
Moore was a head case who didn’t play particularly well at his next stop before leaving again. Did you read the racist crap he posted? Cole was too slow to play effectively at this level.
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Moore leaving killed me as I thought, with all his flaws, that he (along with Posh and Champ) was the reason that the team had a relatively successful season. However, I was not aware of the racist stuff that he put on line. When did that happen, before he left?
 
Im not sure what to say. As a long time associate of coach it's hard to admit but last night was not a great look and having been around coaching 40yrs and my son in laws team their were quite a few alarming momenrs. Somebody correctly wrote this roster is full of great athletes but average basketball players. You could hear Miller( and see during the game) the one kid who played at the appropriate pace and spacing was Mathis.
Their is a long season ahead and I'm certain several good moments but I do have to wonder what comes next. I know Mike C takes emense pride in his work and his legacy. Also in respect to the NIL yes this school will likely never be on par with the huge state schools but their are several schools in the same boat bringing in winning players that fit a successsful system creating a winning program.
 
Something I didn't expect to be saying this year is that we need much better play at the point guard position. On paper you can make the point that we have two very talented options. However, neither kid (when playing together or apart) is providing anything above average at the position. If Posh and Curbelo are not wreaking havoc on the defensive end, not racking up assists, and not shooting well; then they are just undersized mismatches on a switch-heavy defense.
 
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Larry Wright said:
16-15 6-14
Anderson gets to ride off into the sunset with his never had a losing record thing intact.
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You forgot he also rides off with $8-10 Million Dollars of St John ‘s money , over the 4 lack luster years . Plus whatever is negotiated as his buyout . He isn’t going to improve this Program and it should be apparent to every fan , Alum, Donor , Media , etc . We might also want to add the name of Greg St Jean to any possible list of candidates . In addition to Chris Mack , The Pitinos , etc . St Jean is highly regarded on BB Circles and has the SJU connection under Mullin . That shouldn’t disqualify him in my opinion . He’s young and can relate to Players . We could and have done worse .
 
JohnnyFan said:
Something I didn't expect to be saying this year is that we need much better play at the point guard position. On paper you can make the point that we have two very talented options. However, neither kid (when playing together or apart) is providing anything above average at the position. If Posh and Curbelo are not wreaking havoc on the defensive end, not racking up assists and not shooting well; then they are just undersized mismatches on switch-heavy defense.
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I would have never imagined I’d be asking for a no point guard lineup with this group. I thought we should have gave it a look last night.
 
Boo Harvey said:
Moore was a head case who didn’t play particularly well at his next stop before leaving again. Did you read the racist crap he posted? Cole was too slow to play effectively at this level.
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Moore was a very talented basketball player who requires a coach that understands him and could work with him and harness his talent while helping him with his anger.
Yes I read the racist post he wrote and hold no ill will at all towards him for writing same. Do you remember the context in which he wrote same ? If I recall correctly it was in the context of George Floyd and what was transpiring at that time. I believe the athletes are given media training but Moore let his emotions get the best of him during very tumultuous times.
Which one of us never made some mistakes when we were 21. Lord knows I made many but there were no cell phones or social media then. Thank g d.
Moore needed a coach like Lou C , who g d bless will turn 98 in a few days, who turned an angry young man some 40 years ago into an excellent Bball player and model citizen. He gave the young man , who committed a serious transgression, a second chance at St. John’s , and the young man succeeded.
Coach Lavin is another example of a coach who gave an angry young man a second chance, D Lo and both were well rewarded for Coach Lavins patience and understanding.
I wish Isiah Moore all the very best in life.
 
Amaseinyourface said:
I would have never imagined I’d be asking for a no point guard lineup with this group. I thought we should have gave it a look last night.
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Don’t want ball in Wusu hands either Mase
If you have Posh play his game and never look to shoot threes he would be fine. Trying to do too much and not doing anything well.
Needs to play like North Carolina points did King Rice, Ed Cota, Phelps
They couldn’t shoot but did what they could do.
 
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