UCONN back to Big East?

Per Neil Ostrout
UConn Board of Trustees has officially added an item to the agenda for tomorrow’s meeting, a vote on accepting a Big East invite.

Document-signing ceremony will take place after UConn Board of Trustees vote on Big East, so ... yeah, would seem to be a done deal.
 
[quote="Logen" post=353111]I don’t really buy either argument, pro or con. As Paul stated this is about re-negotiating the TV contract, nothing more, nothing less. There are other teams that could have been invited, all with positives and negatives. Yukon has about as much name recognition as any possible invitee other than Gonzaga and logistically they make much better sense, both in terms of getting the expansion done and geographically. This is about TV ($), plain and simple. Yukon is not Yukon anymore, Hurley is not Calhoun, and this is not your Dad’s Big East. If SJU is afraid to compete, then downgrade. It’s funny, posters want us to get back to a national presence but are afraid of Yukon? I guess if we ever do get back and have to face the big boys in the NCAA, we can just forfeit, because after all, we can’t compete with state schools. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways.[/quote]

+1 for the spelling. I'm not afraid of Yukon men's. I just hold them in lower esteem than the Bernie Fine Syracuse and they are a proven terrible partner and dirty competitor with so much baggage and for whatever reason bring the worst fans out, anywhere. Not to mention totally break the mold of a working Big East that no one said would work but has exceeded every expectation. And while other fans pine over our basketball-centric conference the stewards who are supposed to be looking out wants to break that and throw money at a losing formula instead of building up a winning formula.

I'm realistic about Yukon ladies. I watched the last ladies vs Yukon game and we looked pretty good at times despite looking like children physically in comparison, so maybe there is some hope but if you consider women's college basketball a major sport then Yukon women's basketball is pretty much the greatest dynasty in any sport, ever. They are a machine like nothing else. And the Big East doesn't have anything that is remotely competitive.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=353112][quote="austour" post=353110]
PS, I didn't call Uconn a 'national program' but they are certainly far more nationally recognized than anyone in the BE, barring Nova and Gtown maybe. You're writing them off like they're Guy Lewis' Houston or Ray Meyer's Depaul. I disagree with that opinion.[/quote]

I didn't say you did. You jumped into my response to a couple of other posts that did. I may have been secretly hoping that you'd give me some pointers on logic but that is besides the point. Houston looked pretty good this year. I'm disputing that they are a "national program." They aren't. It is debatable that they ever were despite a good run. But the point being that there is no massive jolt being received by Yukon entering Big East men's basketball. It is a massive benefit to them and clear downside to St John's and other schools if not the entire conference. Pretty much NOTHING to the big east that couldn't be gotten many other ways without the baggage. The fact that no other conference wanted them when they were relevant and now we (the brain trust) want them when they aren't is pathetic and should send up all kinds of warning flags to anyone paying attention.[/quote]

Got it. What's the baggage again? And to say no other conference wanted them is to say no other conference wanted their football program, it would have been a drain on fiscal resources for any conference. I disagree with your belief that adding Yukon doesn't increase the $$$ for all teams more than adding any other realistic option but we're clearly not going to agree on this so I'll just have to rest easy that the BE's media consultants agree with me. As I said, I don't disagree with you on the competitive downside, though the fact that a pathetic program could have such impact on a competitive level I'm still trying to rationalize in my own mind. Logic? that's for sucks.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=353113]Phi Slamma Jamma and Elvin Hayes with Don Chaney at least suggest some hoops tradition that occasionally bubbles up.[/quote]

So my grandpa used to tell me. I'm almost 60.

But seriously PSJ was one of the teams that first got me into college hoops. Lest we forget Texas Western won more natty's though.

My point about Lewis and Meyer was that they were revered for their longevity and inability to win it all. Comps to Yukon go out the window not only based on much of their tenures being ancient history but also on levels of success. Paul never made that comp by the way. Was just another one of my bad jokes.
 
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[quote="Paul Massell" post=353115][quote="Logen" post=353111]I don’t really buy either argument, pro or con. As Paul stated this is about re-negotiating the TV contract, nothing more, nothing less. There are other teams that could have been invited, all with positives and negatives. Yukon has about as much name recognition as any possible invitee other than Gonzaga and logistically they make much better sense, both in terms of getting the expansion done and geographically. This is about TV ($), plain and simple. Yukon is not Yukon anymore, Hurley is not Calhoun, and this is not your Dad’s Big East. If SJU is afraid to compete, then downgrade. It’s funny, posters want us to get back to a national presence but are afraid of Yukon? I guess if we ever do get back and have to face the big boys in the NCAA, we can just forfeit, because after all, we can’t compete with state schools. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways.[/quote]

+1 for the spelling. I'm not afraid of Yukon men's. I just hold them in lower esteem than the Bernie Fine Syracuse and they are a proven terrible partner and dirty competitor with so much baggage and for whatever reason bring the worst fans out, anywhere. Not to mention totally break the mold of a working Big East that no one said would work but has exceeded every expectation. And while other fans pine over our basketball-centric conference the stewards who are supposed to be looking out wants to break that and throw money at a losing formula instead of building up a winning formula.

I'm realistic about Yukon ladies. I watched the last ladies vs Yukon game and we looked pretty good at times despite looking like children physically in comparison, so maybe there is some hope but if you consider women's college basketball a major sport then Yukon women's basketball is pretty much the greatest dynasty in any sport, ever. They are a machine like nothing else. And the Big East doesn't have anything that is remotely competitive.[/quote]

Did not mean the “afraid” comment to be addressed to you at all. I mentioned you because you posted about the expansion being about the TV contract, nothing else. I don’t share your feelings about the impact to the league but that is my opinion, you could certainly be correct.
 
[quote="austour" post=353117][quote="Paul Massell" post=353112][quote="austour" post=353110]
PS, I didn't call Uconn a 'national program' but they are certainly far more nationally recognized than anyone in the BE, barring Nova and Gtown maybe. You're writing them off like they're Guy Lewis' Houston or Ray Meyer's Depaul. I disagree with that opinion.[/quote]

The fact that no other conference wanted them when they were relevant and now we (the brain trust) want them when they aren't is pathetic and should send up all kinds of warning flags to anyone paying attention.[/quote]

As I said, I don't disagree with you on the competitive downside, though the fact that a pathetic program could have such impact on a competitive level I'm still trying to rationalize in my own mind. Logic? that's for sucks.[/quote]

Again, I did not say that. I did not say that Yukon was a pathetic program. I said the choice to pursue them now when they suck and nobody else will go near them, is pathetic. I'm just waiting to see how the contract plays out. If it is not very one-sided with all kinds of protections in place for the current Big East and member schools being represented then it is an epic blunder. This needs to start with a massive cost to do business that the Big East has imposed on Yukon to make this happen. I doubt that and fully expect that school is already in session and we've been played and we'll see a lot of people congratulating themselves for making it happen but in reality we've been under represented and most of the money was left on the table.
 
[quote="austour" post=353118][quote="fuchsia" post=353113]Phi Slamma Jamma and Elvin Hayes with Don Chaney at least suggest some hoops tradition that occasionally bubbles up.[/quote]

So my grandpa used to tell me. I'm almost 60.

But seriously PSJ was one of the teams that first got me into college hoops. Lest we forget Texas Western won more natty's though.

My point about Lewis and Meyer was that they were revered for their longevity and inability to win it all. Comps to Yukon go out the window not only based on much of their tenures being ancient history but also on levels of success. Paul never made that comp by the way. Was just another one of my bad jokes.[/quote Me too PSj was the first team I voted for]
 
[quote="austour" post=353118]
So my grandpa used to tell me. I'm almost 60.
[/quote]

Wow you old!

[attachment=967]Capto_Capture 2019-05-25_01-25-50_PM.png[/attachment]
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=353122][quote="austour" post=353118]
So my grandpa used to tell me. I'm almost 60.
[/quote]

Wow you old!

[attachment=967]Capto_Capture 2019-05-25_01-25-50_PM.png[/attachment][/quote]

That blank look's been around since I was 18. LOL

And trust me I wholly recognize that age makes me a spring chicken in this esteemed group of oldtimers.
 
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There's a reason most hot girls are friends with each other. They want to associate with each other. There's a reason the popular kids in HS only want to hang out with other popular kids. It's about perception. Do you want to be perceived as prestigious and powerful, or weaker? UConn is adding a girl who used to be scorching hot, though she could lose 20 lbs. If you want to be seen as the best, you need to surround yourself with the best, compete against the best, and associate with the best. Sorry but Villanova was the only program truly doing a lot nationally. I warned of this for years. If Nova has an off year we are screwed and perception tanks. Now we have another top notch brand.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=353130]There's a reason most hot girls are friends with each other. They want to associate with each other. There's a reason the popular kids in HS only want to hang out with other popular kids. It's about perception. Do you want to be perceived as prestigious and powerful, or weaker? UConn is adding a girl who used to be scorching hot, though she could lose 20 lbs. If you want to be seen as the best, you need to surround yourself with the best, compete against the best, and associate with the best. Sorry but Villanova was the only program truly doing a lot nationally. I warned of this for years. If Nova has an off year we are screwed and perception tanks. Now we have another top notch brand.[/quote]

I agree with the premise of your post. The Big East added another legitimate brand. It also added a bitter rival for us that for me as a fan, will bring two more very entertaining games each year. I'm also a fan of the Big East as a whole and want it to to remain strong. We've been in solid shape since breaking away, and hopefully this just adds to that.

Paul, just to play devil's advocate on the "National Brand" debate. Yes, I agree UConn has faded a bit in recent years. Although the Women's program has kept the brand among the most well known in college sports. However, if you were to travel this country, and speak to random college basketball fans, I doubt anyone would hold either Seton Hall or Providence in higher regard than UConn, even though each have had more success in recent history.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=353081][quote="Adam" post=353079]

Duke and Syracuse never would have played us at CA. [/quote]

The only problem with saying never is that Syracuse did regularly play us at CA, as did many nationally ranked teams who came to NY (Louisville and Darrell Griffith come to mind). Yes, it's a big attraction for those schools to play at the Garden, especially when they recruit NYC, but historically elite teams did come to CA.[/quote]

For referencing Dr. Dunkenstein, I officially declare Beast to be today’s winner of the Internet!
 
[quote="Room112" post=353135]
Paul, just to play devil's advocate on the "National Brand" debate. Yes, I agree UConn has faded a bit in recent years. Although the Women's program has kept the brand among the most well known in college sports. However, if you were to travel this country, and speak to random college basketball fans, I doubt anyone would hold either Seton Hall or Providence in higher regard than UConn, even though each have had more success in recent history.[/quote]

I don't dispute that. I disputed the claim that your alma mater is a "national program" They don't have a national fan base like an Ohio St or Michigan or even a Notre Dame. I don't think there is anything wrong with that either. Regional schools are one of the great things about college basketball e.g. Gonzaga, Butler, Providence etc Even Duke is not a natural juggernaut and could probably never existed in another sport. Just pointing out the unsubstantiated claimed benefit that adding Yukon is somehow a market boon. In context if you weighed the value of adding a team from another market like those who poo-pooed Dayton or St Louis, there would probably be a net gain for the conference and individual teams, whereas adding Yukon to the same market as St Johns, Seton Hall, Prov and to a lesser extent, Villanova and G'town, has very little net benefit and has the very real potential to diminish their brands. If all it takes to renegotiate the media contract is adding another team why not expand the markets instead of adding a leach to the existing markets?
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=353140][quote="Room112" post=353135]
Paul, just to play devil's advocate on the "National Brand" debate. Yes, I agree UConn has faded a bit in recent years. Although the Women's program has kept the brand among the most well known in college sports. However, if you were to travel this country, and speak to random college basketball fans, I doubt anyone would hold either Seton Hall or Providence in higher regard than UConn, even though each have had more success in recent history.[/quote]

I don't dispute that. I disputed the claim that your alma mater is a "national program" They don't have a national fan base like an Ohio St or Michigan or even a Notre Dame. I don't think there is anything wrong with that either. Regional schools are one of the great things about college basketball e.g. Gonzaga, Butler, Providence etc Even Duke is not a natural juggernaut and could probably never existed in another sport. Just pointing out the unsubstantiated claimed benefit that adding Yukon is somehow a market boon. In context if you weighed the value of adding a team from another market like those who poo-pooed Dayton or St Louis, there would probably be a net gain for the conference and individual teams, whereas adding Yukon to the same market as St Johns, Seton Hall, Prov and to a lesser extent, Villanova and G'town, has very little net benefit and has the very real potential to diminish their brands. If all it takes to renegotiate the media contract is adding another team why not expand the markets instead of adding a leach to the existing markets?[/quote]

Who would we add though? Gonzaga is the only team with even half the allure of UConn, but their location basically disqualifies them.

I think you're overthinking the overlapping markets a bit too much. Connecticut brings a ton of new fans and a new location. The NE is extremely dense while the rest of the country isn't, which is why all the pro franchises have 2 teams in NYC alone. College sports fans are also much more fragmented than pro sports (for example: the ACC has 4 teams in North Carolina). It's not like Providence owns the New England market, we have a ton of ground to gain there. This is about fan bases and UConn has arguably a bigger fan base than any Big East member. They will bring the TV ratings.

In terms of potential candidates, Dayton is very close to Xavier (50 minutes drive) and their resume is mid-major. St. Louis is a new market but they hardly have any fans and their resume is also mid-major.

We're only a couple months removed from our worst ever March. Would hate to see the perception of our league tank by adding Dayton or St. Louis. If we're going to add a team we need to add an elite one, not another DePaul. UConn isn't a perfect candidate but they are the only acceptable addition.
 
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Yukon joining the BE does what for SJU? Gives Yukon more exposure and puts us at a recruiting disadvantage. They point to their championships, we point to Louie. Once again, short sighted for the quick buck.
 
[quote="Knight" post=353156]Yukon joining the BE does what for SJU? Gives Yukon more exposure and puts us at a recruiting disadvantage. They point to their championships, we point to Louie. Once again, short sighted for the quick buck.[/quote]

IMO we can look in the mirror for the reason for our failures. Slice contract, scandals in past, corruption up top, hiring coaches with zero experience some of which acted like divas who couldn't be bothered, and not really recruiting much. We are to blame for the failure. No one is oppressing us but ourselves and our mismanagement. Did you hear Repole's rant? That's why we are where we are. Not because UConn is holding us back. Let's stop being scared of a much-weakened UConn program...they have guys like Sid Wilson and Hurley, not Kemba and Calhoun. Even though Hurley is solid and I think UConn will do well here, they will by no means steamroll the league. They have no idea how much better all the programs have gotten including St. John's since the 2002-2010 ish era. They will be shocked to see DePaul put up a fight and to see that PC is no joke anymore and that Seton Hall isn't a penciled in W anymore in addition to us. Stand and fight...running from competition makes us look weak and submissive.
 
I just read the O'Learly article from a few pages back. He is completely deluded and in some cases just plain wrong. He says Georgetown doesn't draw at the Capital One arena. Of course, Georgetown's attendance figures are bad because no sane person would pay to watch the worst OOC schedule in the country, but in conference games they actually have been drawing much better in the Ewing years.

And his take on the AAC is almost comical. It is a rump conference of far-flung schools with no history with each other. Most of the teams are complete non-entities. It's best team is run by a proven cheater, and another team has been in trouble with the NCAA multiple times in the past 20 years. Oh wait, that team is Yukon...

The article he links to to prove his point about the AAC's basketball prowess is from 2014!

That being said, I hope the Yukon BOT listens to the sage advice of that sports marketing genius Sean O'Leary and votes NO on joining the Big East. Stay in the AAC and enjoy the historic rivalries with SMU, UCF and Tulsa. You cannot buy that kind of history!
 
Do I get a special Redmen discount for having seen Toby Kimball play? Oh wait. It’s already free. Thanks Paul. Maybe she who must be obeyed will stop saying “Always with your men.” At least now she asks how they are doing?
 
I just read an article on 247 sports about Yukon's move to the Big East
Looks like Yukon is going the independent route in football
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=353169]I just read an article on 247 sports about Yukon's move to the Big East
Looks like Yukon is going the independent route in football[/quote]

IE.. the slow death of their football program. They won’t do well without a conference. It’s easier to jettison the program once all conference ties for football are cut and I think this is the beginning of the end for that football non-entity.
 
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