UCONN back to Big East?

[quote="redmannorth" post=353029][quote="redken" post=353028][quote="fordham96" post=353023][quote="Section3" post=353016][quote="MainMan" post=352919][quote="Section3" post=352889]
The BE made UCONN, not vice versa.
Also made Pitt.[/quote]

Jim Calhoun made UConn.
And in doing so he kept the BE relevant in the 90s when the conference slid into mediocrity.[/quote]
BE made UCONN...Calhoun leveraged it but no mistaking it. Without BE, UCONN would have continued to be irrelevant[/quote]

The BE made everyone in that vein, so what's your point? There is no way SJU, Syracuse, Georgetown could have maintained themselves without joining a conference.

Bottom line is as Rick Pitino has repeatedly said the 3 greatest modern coaching jobs in terms of taking programs with very little history and almost no recent success to the top are: 1)Jerry Tarkanian at UNLV, 2)John Calipari at UMASS and 3) Jim Calhoun at UCONN.[/quote]
Those first two should have asterisks next to their name.[/quote]

As should the third. And if I am correct UConn was put on probation while Calhoun was Coach. Also the NCAA legislated certain behaviour which Calhoun was engaged in to make it illegal going forward. Great coach absolutely but used every trick and more to his advantage.[/quote]

Please Tark was brilliant. What Calhoun did at UCONN is nothing short of amazing. No asteriks. Really, John Calipari has won every where he went. Pitino won every where he went including the Knicks. Took Kentucky from the toilet. There is no one who doesn't believe those 3 coaches are not only HOFers but remarkable in what they did.And all SJU fans would take them and their success including the warts in 2 seconds.

The idea that Calipari turned around UMASS only because Marcus Camby took some benefits his last year at UMASS is a crock of ####. The sweat that it took to turn around the worst A10 program to number 1 is extraordinary The idea of Calhoun in 1990 sharing the BE regular season then winning the BE Tourney while beating Georgetown and Syracuse then getting a #1 seed and losing to Duke in the regional final because he cut corners and is a cheater is a lot of sour grapes. It's nonsense.
 
[quote="QueensBall" post=353013]Our home games against UConn, Nova, Hall, Georgetown & Providence all feel like they should be big draws at the Garden. I know it may not be the most important element but if we add UConn and assume the Big 12 challenge sticks around it seems like we may be +2 in annual Garden-worthy games per season. And the more we increase that # of games there the more effective it is as a recruiting tool.[/quote]

All bring significant crowds to mag which helps negate home court advantage, meaning it beco.es much harder for us overall.
 
I think you guys forget the perennial doormat UConn was in the 80s, the why-are-they-in-this-league program, the automatic W on the schedule, the no-juice game, the game to look past toward Gtown, Cuse or really any other BE team.

Calhoun is the greatest coach in the history of the BE and it’s not even close.
 
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Lots of great BE stretches. Georgetown winning 4 BE regular season and 4 BE Tourney titles in a 6 year stretch from 1984-1989. Syracuse going to 8 BE Tourney finals in a 10 year stretch (84-93): 84 (losing to Georgetown in a controversy), 86 losing to SJU at the buzzer, 87 losing to Georgetown, 88 winning it, 89 losing to Georgetown, 90 losing to UCONN, 92 winning over Georgetown and 93 losing to SHU.

UCONN's 7 year run from 94-2000 is as impressive as they come. They won 5 outright BE regular season titles including 3 straight: 94,95,96, 98 and 99. Went to 5 Tourney finals, 95-losing to Nova, 96-beating Georgetown-Ray Allen off balance, 98-beating Syracuse,, 99-beating our beloved SJU and 2000-losing to SJU.

For Calhoun to accomplish that in that league is extraordinary,
 
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To celebrate and admire cheaters and put them on a pedestal is something I will never understand. To each their own.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=353031][quote="redmannorth" post=353029][quote="redken" post=353028][quote="fordham96" post=353023][quote="Section3" post=353016][quote="MainMan" post=352919][quote="Section3" post=352889]
The BE made UCONN, not vice versa.
Also made Pitt.[/quote]

Jim Calhoun made UConn.
And in doing so he kept the BE relevant in the 90s when the conference slid into mediocrity.[/quote]
BE made UCONN...Calhoun leveraged it but no mistaking it. Without BE, UCONN would have continued to be irrelevant[/quote]

The BE made everyone in that vein, so what's your point? There is no way SJU, Syracuse, Georgetown could have maintained themselves without joining a conference.

Bottom line is as Rick Pitino has repeatedly said the 3 greatest modern coaching jobs in terms of taking programs with very little history and almost no recent success to the top are: 1)Jerry Tarkanian at UNLV, 2)John Calipari at UMASS and 3) Jim Calhoun at UCONN.[/quote]
Those first two should have asterisks next to their name.[/quote]

As should the third. And if I am correct UConn was put on probation while Calhoun was Coach. Also the NCAA legislated certain behaviour which Calhoun was engaged in to make it illegal going forward. Great coach absolutely but used every trick and more to his advantage.[/quote]

Please Tark was brilliant. What Calhoun did at UCONN is nothing short of amazing. No asteriks. Really, John Calipari has won every where he went. Pitino won every where he went including the Knicks. Took Kentucky from the toilet. There is no one who doesn't believe those 3 coaches are not only HOFers but remarkable in what they did.And all SJU fans would take them and their success including the warts in 2 seconds.

The idea that Calipari turned around UMASS only because Marcus Camby took some benefits his last year at UMASS is a crock of ####. The sweat that it took to turn around the worst A10 program to number 1 is extraordinary The idea of Calhoun in 1990 sharing the BE regular season then winning the BE Tourney while beating Georgetown and Syracuse then getting a #1 seed and losing to Duke in the regional final because he cut corners and is a cheater is a lot of sour grapes. It's nonsense.[/quote]
Not saying that Calipari didn't do a good job at UMass, but Marcus Camby's presence had everything to do with their going to the Final Four ... which in turn opened doors for Calipari. As for Tark, the stench is still palpable.
 
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They are all remarkable but imo Calhoun more than the rest. He never landed tons of big name talent like Tark and Cal did and those guys cheated a ton to get there. Doesn’t diminish how good their teams were, but Calhoun won a ton and really developed his teams, often with less than 5-star talent. Turned a lot of fairly ranked guys into stalwart players. Jim Calhoun as much as I can’t stand him, is in a class of his own with what he got done at UConn.
 
UConn and Nova bring large opposing fan contingents. Gtown usually. Prov not as much the size but they are loud. Hall? There weren’t many this year and they travel worse than those fan bases despite proximity. Heck they even have trouble drawing at their own place.



[quote="Beast of the East" post=353033][quote="QueensBall" post=353013]Our home games against UConn, Nova, Hall, Georgetown & Providence all feel like they should be big draws at the Garden. I know it may not be the most important element but if we add UConn and assume the Big 12 challenge sticks around it seems like we may be +2 in annual Garden-worthy games per season. And the more we increase that # of games there the more effective it is as a recruiting tool.[/quote]

All bring significant crowds to mag which helps negate home court advantage, meaning it beco.es much harder for us overall.[/quote]
 
[quote="MainMan" post=353034]I think you guys forget the perennial doormat UConn was in the 80s, the why-are-they-in-this-league program, the automatic W on the schedule, the no-juice game, the game to look past toward Gtown, Cuse or really any other BE team.

Calhoun is the greatest coach in the history of the BE and it’s not even close.[/quote]

It's closer than you might think

Jay Wright has the same overall winning percentage, higher conference winning %. Similar BE regular & BE Tourney titles as a percentage of years coaching. Also has two national titles to Calhoun's 3.

I agree that Calhoun is the best HC in league history, but Jay Wright might pass him before he's done.
 
I'm not worried at all about crowds being heavily opposing fanbases. It's up to us if we show up or not...not them. Even against Duke I would say at worst it was 50/50...I was at the Garden for that awesome win. This is a myth...if we are terrible then of course less fans are going to come out but that's with almost anyone. If there's even a decent product on the court, the fans come out. We aren't the type of program that needs to be top 25 to get any fans at games. Just be decent and show fans you have a punching chance. The alternative is playing DePaul at MSG with 99% SJ fans in front of maybe 8k. Sorry but yawn. I'd rather be associated with the best and play the best. Of course UConn is not Kemba UConn anymore with Calhoun. If we want to be seen as a major brand nationally, we must link up with the UConn's of the world. There's big time thinking and mom and pop thinking. Begging for smaller programs that are more regional and not nationally known at MSG is silly IMO and has a mid major feel. Fighters don't get good reputations beating midgets...they get good reputations aiming to knock down the best. UConn matches up as well as any basketball school in the past 20-25 yrs or so including Duke. To not want them here is silly. Bottom line, without UConn the pundits will continue to question if we are only Nova. They will also continue to question why we suck in the NCAA's because we have other than Nova. Our tourney appearances are at a major level but we perform like mid majors once we get there.
 
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That O'Leary column should show Ackerman that the Conn fan base still holds out hope that the ACC or some other major football conference is going to come calling. I hope she comes up with some strict, costly penalties in the event Conn pulls out.
 
[quote="Coaster" post=353062]Well, here's a different take on the situation.
https://medium.com/@stholeary/12-reasons-why-uconn-will-regret-the-new-big-east-6a90b9a00043[/quote]
There's some beautiful, surreal BE-bashing prose in there: The AAC, it can be argued, is a much strong football league that the tail end of the Big East days.
 
[quote="Rob" post=353042]UConn and Nova bring large opposing fan contingents. Gtown usually. Prov not as much the size but they are loud. Hall? There weren’t many this year and they travel worse than those fan bases despite proximity. Heck they even have trouble drawing at their own place.



[quote="Beast of the East" post=353033][quote="QueensBall" post=353013]Our home games against UConn, Nova, Hall, Georgetown & Providence all feel like they should be big draws at the Garden. I know it may not be the most important element but if we add UConn and assume the Big 12 challenge sticks around it seems like we may be +2 in annual Garden-worthy games per season. And the more we increase that # of games there the more effective it is as a recruiting tool.[/quote]

All bring significant crowds to mag which helps negate home court advantage, meaning it beco.es much harder for us overall.[/quote][/quote]

The Seton Hall game @ MSG this past season had an attendance of just under 19,000 and the Providence game @ MSG had just over 16,000. So somebody is getting fans to the game. If it wasn't them, then it was us...

I get that playing at the Garden against UConn & Nova greatly diminishes our home court advantage but either we value playing in the Garden or we don't. It's NYC, if you play the big teams you're going to have to deal with the big fanbases. I don't think being afraid of losing or giving up a competitive advantage is a good enough reason to not want to play them there. We're a little like a parent who doesn't want to drop their kid off at the playground courts because we know a bully is there. At some point we have to trust the staff and players. Either we're good enough and tough enough or we're not. Let's find out and give the program an opportunity to grow. Each of the past 2 seasons, the biggest noise we made in the national media came from beating an elite program at a sold out MSG.
 
If you want to be a celebrity, don't complain about autograph requests or paparazzi...it comes with the territory. Playing big time basketball with big time programs comes with lots of traveling fans. Don't sell us short...we have a huge fan base in the grand scheme of all college hoops. Probably a top 30 fanbase in the country in terms of number. Win or have high expectations and they will come which is what we saw last year. Excitement and an undefeated start got people pumped. I think a lot of UConn and SJ fans together just adds to the juice and excitement. That's what sports is about...rivalries. I'd much rather play UConn at a sold out MSG with 50/50 fans vs. 100% SJ fans at MSG for Providence. If anything, our fans will be more likely to be more responsive if there are lots of UConn fans trying to take over. At the MSG Duke game, Duke came storming back and the Duke fans made themselves known...SJ fans were quick to respond. It was fun...part of the fan experience. MSG has never really given us a home court advantage regardless...UConn fans won't come to CA though so we could still have one there every once in a while ;)
 
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Prior to attending St. John's I lived in the south (ACC country) my entire life. I was a fan of the ACC (NC State accepted me but I went to another college with low level D1 basketball). After college, I wanted to go to NYC for grad school, and ultimately I decided on St. John's. When I told my friends/family about my decision, there were two things everyone knew about SJU (the same two things I knew before attending):

1. They were in the Big East
2. They played games at MSG

The MSG aspect is MASSIVE because it is one of the best, if not THE best arena in the world. I knew that just by reputation before ever stepping foot inside. While I love Raleigh (it is superior to NYC in a number of ways), MSG absolutely blows away the arenas that ACC schools like NC State play in. MSG is the one advantage St. John's has over virtually everyone in the country. By contrast, CA is a dump and a complete embarrassment. It also looks mid-major on TV.

Playing UConn at MSG is in no way a bad thing for St. John's. The only thing keeping us relevant the past few years has been our MSG wins against teams like Duke, Syracuse and Villanova. Fox and CBS almost always televise these games nationally for a reason.

Duke and Syracuse never would have played us at CA. Imagine if we said no to those games because they were at MSG rather than CA. Imagine how disastrous Mullin's first 3 years would have been without the Syracuse and Duke wins. Those games ONLY happened because of MSG.

I'm an analytics guy, and although we might lose a point or two on the spread by playing games at MSG rather than CA, the amount of benefits gained from playing at MSG far outweigh any negatives. It's not even remotely close. I still find it so bizarre that some attack the one thing keeping us relevant. It's almost as bad as the people suggesting we leave the Big East and go to a conference with easier competition (1 bid leagues).

Anyways, I can't wait to play the 4X National Champion Huskies at MSG, on either Fox or CBS every year.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=353051]I'm not worried at all about crowds being heavily opposing fanbases. It's up to us if we show up or not...not them. Even against Duke I would say at worst it was 50/50...I was at the Garden for that awesome win. This is a myth...if we are terrible then of course less fans are going to come out but that's with almost anyone. If there's even a decent product on the court, the fans come out. We aren't the type of program that needs to be top 25 to get any fans at games. Just be decent and show fans you have a punching chance. The alternative is playing DePaul at MSG with 99% SJ fans in front of maybe 8k. Sorry but yawn. I'd rather be associated with the best and play the best. Of course UConn is not Kemba UConn anymore with Calhoun. If we want to be seen as a major brand nationally, we must link up with the UConn's of the world. There's big time thinking and mom and pop thinking. Begging for smaller programs that are more regional and not nationally known at MSG is silly IMO and has a mid major feel. Fighters don't get good reputations beating midgets...they get good reputations aiming to knock down the best. UConn matches up as well as any basketball school in the past 20-25 yrs or so including Duke. To not want them here is silly. Bottom line, without UConn the pundits will continue to question if we are only Nova. They will also continue to question why we suck in the NCAA's because we have other than Nova. Our tourney appearances are at a major level but we perform like mid majors once we get there.[/quote]

History doesn't agree with you Mike. When we play at Syracuse, UCONN, Butler, Creighton, or just about any opponent, they have a definite and marked home court advantage. Playing at the Garden just about always degrades our home court advantage and always will since NYC is a great destination - even Creighton sends a pretty large continent if we play them there. It has literally been decades since NYC fans scooped up all the tickets and that was before internet sales allowed equal access to visiting fans from anywhere in the world to buy tickets at the same time instead of from the small allocation that their schools got.
 
[quote="Adam" post=353079]

Duke and Syracuse never would have played us at CA. [/quote]

The only problem with saying never is that Syracuse did regularly play us at CA, as did many nationally ranked teams who came to NY (Louisville and Darrell Griffith come to mind). Yes, it's a big attraction for those schools to play at the Garden, especially when they recruit NYC, but historically elite teams did come to CA.
 
[quote="Adam" post=353079]Prior to attending St. John's I lived in the south (ACC country) my entire life. I was a fan of the ACC (NC State accepted me but I went to another college with low level D1 basketball). After college, I wanted to go to NYC for grad school, and ultimately I decided on St. John's. When I told my friends/family about my decision, there were two things everyone knew about SJU (the same two things I knew before attending):

1. They were in the Big East
2. They played games at MSG

The MSG aspect is MASSIVE because it is one of the best, if not THE best arena in the world. I knew that just by reputation before ever stepping foot inside. While I love Raleigh (it is superior to NYC in a number of ways), MSG absolutely blows away the arenas that ACC schools like NC State play in. MSG is the one advantage St. John's has over virtually everyone in the country. By contrast, CA is a dump and a complete embarrassment. It also looks mid-major on TV.

Playing UConn at MSG is in no way a bad thing for St. John's. The only thing keeping us relevant the past few years has been our MSG wins against teams like Duke, Syracuse and Villanova. Fox and CBS almost always televise these games nationally for a reason.

Duke and Syracuse never would have played us at CA. Imagine if we said no to those games because they were at MSG rather than CA. Imagine how disastrous Mullin's first 3 years would have been without the Syracuse and Duke wins. Those games ONLY happened because of MSG.

I'm an analytics guy, and although we might lose a point or two on the spread by playing games at MSG rather than CA, the amount of benefits gained from playing at MSG far outweigh any negatives. It's not even remotely close. I still find it so bizarre that some attack the one thing keeping us relevant. It's almost as bad as the people suggesting we leave the Big East and go to a conference with easier competition (1 bid leagues).

Anyways, I can't wait to play the 4X National Champion Huskies at MSG, on either Fox or CBS every year.[/quote]

I remember the rallying cry "Not in my house", when a home team player puts a dead stop on an opponent with a blocked shot or steal, or a very big defensive play.

I've had season tickets since sophomore year as a student, and have been embarrassed when opposing teams made MSG their house. Even in the BET, when we got our asses whipped by Marquette, there were far more MArquette fans who travelled from Milwaukee than SJU fans who travelled all of about 2-25 miles.

You guys can say whatever you want, but UCONN will invade the Garden, especially when Hurley restores their stature, and buy up 40-60% of the seats while our fans sit at home and watch on TV.
 
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