Transfer Portal 2022

[MakingPlays]

Making Plays, thank you for the filling my void for a morning lecture. My wife had to run out this morning and she didn’t have the time to do so.

But if you may or may not have noticed, there are a good number of discussions regarding other programs, coaches, and players. We are not relegated to the SJU talking point.

You can ignore my posts because I will not look you up Hogville (even though I am rooting for Arkansas).

In fact, we can just ignore one another’s posts. As an alum and fan of this program for over 40 years, I can and will talk about SJU in whatever context I wish to, as long as I adhere to the forum rules

Thanks.

Your post directed at me was very condescending and off-topic.  You were implying that I just came over here to gloat about Arkansas and didn't know what I was talking about regarding SJU roster and then randomly asked me about Musselman.  I didn't mention Arkansas or Musselman and nothing in your post was about player transfers which the topic is about and what I was discussing. That's cool that you've been a fan for 40 years, cool that you attended the university, congrats on all of that.  Still doesn't give you a pass to be a jerk to someone for no reason, I've never come at you like that.  

Kinda funny some of the mods pick and choose when it's ok to stay on topic...

This is it for me. Never said you came to gloat, because Arkansas winning has nothing to do with SJU.

My issue was that you came and defended Anderson, something you do often, with the rosiest of rosiest pictures of next year. So I did stay on topic by responding to you.

How about if I found that post condescending because I should be excited over something that will in no way, shape, matter, or form happen.

And if I am jerk, so be it.

Man you were quick to jump the gun on that.  I actually deleted the jerk part in my post about 10 seconds after I posted it, I didn't want to get into name calling, something I said I wouldn't do.  

But, It's funny to me, you and a few other guys, as soon as something doesn't go your way, you go out of your way to attack me (when I'm not even in a discussion with you).  I was talking about the roster going into next year with other posters and you went out of your way to say something negative and condescending to me and question me being a fan because I haven't been a fan 40+ years and I don't have the "fan credentials" that you think I should have.  

You brought up Arkansas and Musselman, you know how many people are claiming to be Arkansas and Musselman fans right now?  A freaking lot.  They ain't been fans for 40+ years I can tell you that and we ain't turning down new fans.  Because the more fans you have, the bigger your program is, the better the recruits you get, and the better on the court results.  You want as many people as possible talking about your program.  You would think a 40+ year super fan such as yourself would realize that, guess not.  And FYI, you veteran, grandfathered in fans, or whatever you guys wanna call yourself that don't like my posts feel free to ignore me, notice I never talk to you guys first, because you guys have very little actual basketball knowledge IMO.  Have a good day.

 

[MakingPlays]

To think that this team can somehow be better next season while only keeping the core around and adding a few bit pieces around them is laughable. Sure, players like Posh and Soriano will get better between now and the time when next season starts but so will every other returning player in the league. Everybody is of the mindset that if our players show marginal improvement we'll be better because the rest of the league will be standing still. Nonsense.

Georgetown is not going to be two free wins next season. Xavier is going to be much better with Sean Miller running things. Creighton kicked our butts twice this year with a brand new roster and they'll have some continuity next year. Butler doesn't accept the losing they've been experiencing so they'll be aggressively trying to get better too. Villanova is a machine. 

We need to strike gold in this transfer market otherwise we'll be sweating out the NIT selection show again next March.

Not one single person in this thread has said only our players will get better and the rest of the league will stand still. I read the entire thread and not one person even implied that.  What some of us are saying is the core that's likely returning wasn't that far behind as guys like you want to make them out to be.  Those guys competed every night in the league and was only a possession or two away in some big games.  It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for guys new to a system with a full year in the system to make significant improvements, it's not really a hard concept to grasp  Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back.

A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on.  Soriano was just starting to hit his stride.  






 

"Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back."

This is an obsolete line of thinking with the new college basketball free agency and this was evidenced in our own conference this year. Creighton and Marquette both returned one of the fewest minutes percentages from last season in the entire country and neither had a top recruiting class coming in. We went 0-3 against them and both made the Tournament. On the flip side, Butler had a ton of minutes continuity from last season and they were terrible.

It's a myth and a boomer talking point backed up by zero evidence that bad teams that return their core and don't add more significant pieces will somehow figure out how to be good. We may not have been a "bad" team but if Julian decided to go pro after last season we would have been. 


"A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on".

A top 3 of Julian, Posh, and Wheeler is way better than Posh, Wheeler and Soriano we were still an under .500 team in the league.

You literally just make stuff up as you go huh?

First, you made up the story that people were saying no other team is getting better and only St. John's players would get better in the off-season, when literally nobody said that.  You made that up out of thin air.

Now, you are trying to say there's no evidence of teams that return a lot of players as getting better, because Marquette and Creighton got better with a new roster.  Well, I got an example for you, St. Peter's, they returned most of their core players and they went 14-11 last year with no post season.  No major off-season additions from the portal, no great recruiting class, and this season they are currently 22-11 and in the elite 8.  So, that debunks your teams can't improve returning just their core theory.

You make this too easy for me.  Have a good night.

And P.S. Creighton had the #9 recruiting class in the nation.  Might wanna research before your next post.

https://247sports.com/college/creighton/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

You say I make things up out of thin air but I never said teams can't improve just by returning their core. I said there's no data to back up the point that bad teams suddenly becoming good because of experience and chemistry is the norm. For every one St Peter's run there's 20 teams that have more continuity and experience that continue to be bad, like Fairfield in the same conference as St Peter's.

As an Arkansas guy you should know that continuity from year to year is overrated seeing how Arkansas is in the elite 8 while only returning the 292nd most minutes in the country from last year. To do that Muss went out and got high-impact guys like Umude, Toney, Wade, and Lykes. If SJU brings in another class of Stef Smiths and not high impact guys like Arkansas did then CMA will be your neighbor again by this time next year.

Once again, the actual data is pretty clear that there's no correlation between experience/chemistry and making big one year leaps. 

What data do you keep talking about?  You mention data in every one of your posts, but literally post no data, you just make up information and say it's data.  Do you have a spreadsheet, article, or anything besides what you say, that backs up for every 1 team that returns the majority of their core and gets better there are 20 teams that return the majority of their core and don't get better.  Because I'd like to see those numbers.  Because earlier you told me Creighton didn't have a top recruiting class and with simple research we found out they actually had the #9 recruit class in the nation.
 

 

[MakingPlays]

I'm about to take a break, I come back from vacation, and just say I like the roster next year and think they can be good, and I get the whole 1960's student section on my ass.  All you guys have a good day, hope it gets better lol.

 

[ohiofan]

Come on guys, enough with the back and forth. Let's talk transfer portal.

 

[Mug Costanza]

To think that this team can somehow be better next season while only keeping the core around and adding a few bit pieces around them is laughable. Sure, players like Posh and Soriano will get better between now and the time when next season starts but so will every other returning player in the league. Everybody is of the mindset that if our players show marginal improvement we'll be better because the rest of the league will be standing still. Nonsense.

Georgetown is not going to be two free wins next season. Xavier is going to be much better with Sean Miller running things. Creighton kicked our butts twice this year with a brand new roster and they'll have some continuity next year. Butler doesn't accept the losing they've been experiencing so they'll be aggressively trying to get better too. Villanova is a machine. 

We need to strike gold in this transfer market otherwise we'll be sweating out the NIT selection show again next March.

Not one single person in this thread has said only our players will get better and the rest of the league will stand still. I read the entire thread and not one person even implied that.  What some of us are saying is the core that's likely returning wasn't that far behind as guys like you want to make them out to be.  Those guys competed every night in the league and was only a possession or two away in some big games.  It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for guys new to a system with a full year in the system to make significant improvements, it's not really a hard concept to grasp  Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back.

A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on.  Soriano was just starting to hit his stride.  







 

"Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back."

This is an obsolete line of thinking with the new college basketball free agency and this was evidenced in our own conference this year. Creighton and Marquette both returned one of the fewest minutes percentages from last season in the entire country and neither had a top recruiting class coming in. We went 0-3 against them and both made the Tournament. On the flip side, Butler had a ton of minutes continuity from last season and they were terrible.

It's a myth and a boomer talking point backed up by zero evidence that bad teams that return their core and don't add more significant pieces will somehow figure out how to be good. We may not have been a "bad" team but if Julian decided to go pro after last season we would have been. 


"A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on".

A top 3 of Julian, Posh, and Wheeler is way better than Posh, Wheeler and Soriano we were still an under .500 team in the league.

You literally just make stuff up as you go huh?

First, you made up the story that people were saying no other team is getting better and only St. John's players would get better in the off-season, when literally nobody said that.  You made that up out of thin air.

Now, you are trying to say there's no evidence of teams that return a lot of players as getting better, because Marquette and Creighton got better with a new roster.  Well, I got an example for you, St. Peter's, they returned most of their core players and they went 14-11 last year with no post season.  No major off-season additions from the portal, no great recruiting class, and this season they are currently 22-11 and in the elite 8.  So, that debunks your teams can't improve returning just their core theory.

You make this too easy for me.  Have a good night.

And P.S. Creighton had the #9 recruiting class in the nation.  Might wanna research before your next post.

https://247sports.com/college/creighton/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

You say I make things up out of thin air but I never said teams can't improve just by returning their core. I said there's no data to back up the point that bad teams suddenly becoming good because of experience and chemistry is the norm. For every one St Peter's run there's 20 teams that have more continuity and experience that continue to be bad, like Fairfield in the same conference as St Peter's.

As an Arkansas guy you should know that continuity from year to year is overrated seeing how Arkansas is in the elite 8 while only returning the 292nd most minutes in the country from last year. To do that Muss went out and got high-impact guys like Umude, Toney, Wade, and Lykes. If SJU brings in another class of Stef Smiths and not high impact guys like Arkansas did then CMA will be your neighbor again by this time next year.

Once again, the actual data is pretty clear that there's no correlation between experience/chemistry and making big one year leaps. 

What data do you keep talking about?  You mention data in every one of your posts, but literally post no data, you just make up information and say it's data.  Do you have a spreadsheet, article, or anything besides what you say, that backs up for every 1 team that returns the majority of their core and gets better there are 20 teams that return the majority of their core and don't get better.  Because I'd like to see those numbers.  Because earlier you told me Creighton didn't have a top recruiting class and with simple research we found out they actually had the #9 recruit class in the nation.

 

Yeah, KenPom tracks this exact thing. Might need a $20 sub to see it but it clearly shows there's no correlation this year or any other year.

https://kenpom.com/height.php?s=ContRank

 

[austour]

=13pxBy the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

I feel like weird doesn't play well with the media and fans if the team is losing. And he's a weird guy. Lucky thing he's an excellent coach and plays the transfer game well.

But as we know, it all comes down to winning. Brian Mahoney was one of the nicest and most loyal guys ever around this program, and he was fired.

Maybe SJU should change their hiring practices and look for more “weird” coaches at some point.

Weird doesn't = good.  You do realize that Mussleman would never have considered the STJ job, right?

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I am in the camp that believes continuity and experience play a huge role in how a team plays. And it gives me reason to be optimistic about the team If the core returns and they add a piece or two that contribute at BE level. 

The Last 3 times we made the tourney our minute continuity ranks were: 
2019- 109th (21-13)
2015- 47th (21-12)
2011- 15th (21-12)

other years since:
2012- 343rd (13-19)
2013- 157 (17-16)
2014- 47th (20-13)
2016- 340th (8-24)
2017- 293rd (14-19)
2018- 158th (16-17) 
2020- 305th (17-15)
2021- 149th (16-11)
2022- 239th (17-15)

So the 5 seasons we’ve finished within the top 150 of roster continuity our record is 99-61 (62%) with 3 ncaas, another 20 win season and a 16-11 4th place finish. And the 7 seasons we’ve finished outside of the top 150 we’re 102-125 (45%). 



 

 

[Johnny Rapper]

=13pxBy the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

I feel like weird doesn't play well with the media and fans if the team is losing. And he's a weird guy. Lucky thing he's an excellent coach and plays the transfer game well.

I would much rather have a coach that talks a good story, has high expectations and then fails to make even the NIT over a weird guy who has been to three straight Sweet Sixteens. Isn’t it better for the school to stay consistent as it has been for the last 20 or so years? Sometimes reading this board feels like I’m in the Twilight Zone. 

 

[usguard]

Bottom line there was no way we should have been  going to the NCAA or N I T 
Soriano  is just ok At best We needA top 25 recruiting class with a few 40 % 3 pt shooters or 
a top 15 player who shoots abs rebounds
if coach follows his plan of just recruiting player that run and are defensive player we will remain middle of the pack at best

 

[mjmaherjr]

just my opinion but if we had the same guys as last year come back I think we would have made the NCAA count me in as a believer in continuity especially if we cant use the transfer portal as effectively as some other teams

 

[kranmars]

=13pxBy the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

I feel like weird doesn't play well with the media and fans if the team is losing. And he's a weird guy. Lucky thing he's an excellent coach and plays the transfer game well.

But as we know, it all comes down to winning. Brian Mahoney was one of the nicest and most loyal guys ever around this program, and he was fired.

Maybe SJU should change their hiring practices and look for more “weird” coaches at some point.

Weird doesn't = good.  You do realize that Mussleman would never have considered the STJ job, right?

Of course and I never said he was.
Weird doesn’t always equal Mussleman either. That was my sarcasm which apparently requires modification.

 

[MJDinkins]

=13pxBy the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

I feel like weird doesn't play well with the media and fans if the team is losing. And he's a weird guy. Lucky thing he's an excellent coach and plays the transfer game well.

I would much rather have a coach that talks a good story, has high expectations and then fails to make even the NIT over a weird guy who has been to three straight Sweet Sixteens. Isn’t it better for the school to stay consistent as it has been for the last 20 or so years? Sometimes reading this board feels like I’m in the Twilight Zone. 

That's not even remotely what was said.

 

[Porgyman]

Bottom line there was no way we should have been  going to the NCAA or N I T 
Soriano  is just ok At best We needA top 25 recruiting class with a few 40 % 3 pt shooters or 
a top 15 player who shoots abs rebounds
if coach follows his plan of just recruiting player that run and are defensive player we will remain middle of the pack at best

A top 25 recruiting class with a few 40% 3 point shooters, or a top 15 player who shoots and rebounds.
Anything else? Pole dancers at the arena with free beer? A unicorn?

Talk about unrealistic.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Bottom line there was no way we should have been  going to the NCAA or N I T 
Soriano  is just ok At best We needA top 25 recruiting class with a few 40 % 3 pt shooters or 
a top 15 player who shoots abs rebounds
if coach follows his plan of just recruiting player that run and are defensive player we will remain middle of the pack at best

A top 25 recruiting class with a few 40% 3 point shooters, or a top 15 player who shoots and rebounds.
Anything else? Pole dancers at the arena with free beer? A unicorn?

Talk about unrealistic.

Pole Dancers and free Beer ? Even Monte would want a CMA extension if we got that

 

[usguard]

Mj now that’s an idea we could add lol. Yes, unrealistic but not impossible should I say the impossible dream.



 

 

[Section3]

=13pxBy the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

I feel like weird doesn't play well with the media and fans if the team is losing. And he's a weird guy. Lucky thing he's an excellent coach and plays the transfer game well.

I would much rather have a coach that talks a good story, has high expectations and then fails to make even the NIT over a weird guy who has been to three straight Sweet Sixteens. Isn’t it better for the school to stay consistent as it has been for the last 20 or so years? Sometimes reading this board feels like I’m in the Twilight Zone. 

 

[fordham96]

https://twitter.com/TravisBranham_/status/1507855737988567041?s=19

 

[stjohnnie75]

800+ names now in the portal

https://twitter.com/verbalcommits/status/1507763960384466946?s=21&t=uOS8Zwf2hHjn2dYUT_2aeA

 

[monte]

Bottom line there was no way we should have been  going to the NCAA or N I T 
Soriano  is just ok At best We needA top 25 recruiting class with a few 40 % 3 pt shooters or 
a top 15 player who shoots abs rebounds
if coach follows his plan of just recruiting player that run and are defensive player we will remain middle of the pack at best

A top 25 recruiting class with a few 40% 3 point shooters, or a top 15 player who shoots and rebounds.
Anything else? Pole dancers at the arena with free beer? A unicorn?

Talk about unrealistic.

Pole Dancers and free Beer ? Even Monte would want a CMA extension if we got that

The other night, during a zoom meet up with a group of posters looking to lament the lost season, Mike Maher in his inimitable style, chose to use a strip club analogy to make his point. While waxing poetic about strip clubs, Mike kept saying "Monte knows what I'm talking about", when in fact I had no clue what he was taking about. Ya see, Ive never been much of a strip club guy, not that there's anything. wrong with that. What's most  amazing to me is people that know me personally, take me for a strip club guy. E tu Panther??? 

 

[Michaelw202]

Making Plays keep on posting love your posts and we need more positive posters in here. We had one season where we didn’t meet expectations and our Hashtag on twitter and our fan boards have blown up.