Transfer Portal 2022

[Section3]

6’7 High Flyer Terrence Shannon (Texas Tech) Jr enter the transfer portal. He has heard from Kentucky, UConn, Illinois and Michigan already. 

@TheMacIrvinFire

So this kid Shannon played 35 minutes….last night. Literally. Yet, by this morning he has entered the transfer portal AND he has heard from 4 schools already? SOMEHOW none of the college basketball apologists (Duke V, Jay Bilas, Lord Coach K) have ANY problem with this kind of nonsense. This is now just another form of professional basketball. Hey, it is what it is. I just want free agency and trading so we can do everything above board (or at least be able to assess our free agency needs) and perhaps we have a chance?

After NCAA screwed kids for so long, you can’t be surprised to see many good players pursuing better deal$ or leveraging current situation. Not saying it is right, just seems natural outcome.

Long term may be problematic…. College bball is about the schools not the players….when it starts to smell like G League interest may wane.

 

[boo haarvey]

Hope I’m wrong, but I think this notion that we’re going to return virtually  everyone except Julian is fanciful.

 

[boo haarvey]

To think that this team can somehow be better next season while only keeping the core around and adding a few bit pieces around them is laughable. Sure, players like Posh and Soriano will get better between now and the time when next season starts but so will every other returning player in the league. Everybody is of the mindset that if our players show marginal improvement we'll be better because the rest of the league will be standing still. Nonsense.

Georgetown is not going to be two free wins next season. Xavier is going to be much better with Sean Miller running things. Creighton kicked our butts twice this year with a brand new roster and they'll have some continuity next year. Butler doesn't accept the losing they've been experiencing so they'll be aggressively trying to get better too. Villanova is a machine. 

We need to strike gold in this transfer market otherwise we'll be sweating out the NIT selection show again next March.

Not one single person in this thread has said only our players will get better and the rest of the league will stand still. I read the entire thread and not one person even implied that.  What some of us are saying is the core that's likely returning wasn't that far behind as guys like you want to make them out to be.  Those guys competed every night in the league and was only a possession or two away in some big games.  It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for guys new to a system with a full year in the system to make significant improvements, it's not really a hard concept to grasp  Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back.

A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on.  Soriano was just starting to hit his stride.  

I think you’re making a big assumption that Wheeler will return.  I also think you’re drastically underestimating the impact Champagnie had at both ends of the floor as well as rebounding.  Even when he didn’t shoot well he drew tons of attention.  He will not be east to replace even if a number of guys improve.


 

 

[boo haarvey]

6’7 High Flyer Terrence Shannon (Texas Tech) Jr enter the transfer portal. He has heard from Kentucky, UConn, Illinois and Michigan already. 

@TheMacIrvinFire

So this kid Shannon played 35 minutes….last night. Literally. Yet, by this morning he has entered the transfer portal AND he has heard from 4 schools already? SOMEHOW none of the college basketball apologists (Duke V, Jay Bilas, Lord Coach K) have ANY problem with this kind of nonsense. This is now just another form of professional basketball. Hey, it is what it is. I just want free agency and trading so we can do everything above board (or at least be able to assess our free agency needs) and perhaps we have a chance?

After NCAA screwed kids for so long, you can’t be surprised to see many good players pursuing better deal$ or leveraging current situation. Not saying it is right, just seems natural outcome.

Long term may be problematic…. College bball is about the schools not the players….when it starts to smell like G League interest may wane.

As long as there continue to be stories like St. Peter’s, interest will not wane.  Only in this magical tournament can a story like this unfold.  Simply incredible and why I love this sport!

 

 

[Mug Costanza]

To think that this team can somehow be better next season while only keeping the core around and adding a few bit pieces around them is laughable. Sure, players like Posh and Soriano will get better between now and the time when next season starts but so will every other returning player in the league. Everybody is of the mindset that if our players show marginal improvement we'll be better because the rest of the league will be standing still. Nonsense.

Georgetown is not going to be two free wins next season. Xavier is going to be much better with Sean Miller running things. Creighton kicked our butts twice this year with a brand new roster and they'll have some continuity next year. Butler doesn't accept the losing they've been experiencing so they'll be aggressively trying to get better too. Villanova is a machine. 

We need to strike gold in this transfer market otherwise we'll be sweating out the NIT selection show again next March.

Not one single person in this thread has said only our players will get better and the rest of the league will stand still. I read the entire thread and not one person even implied that.  What some of us are saying is the core that's likely returning wasn't that far behind as guys like you want to make them out to be.  Those guys competed every night in the league and was only a possession or two away in some big games.  It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for guys new to a system with a full year in the system to make significant improvements, it's not really a hard concept to grasp  Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back.

A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on.  Soriano was just starting to hit his stride.  


 

"Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back."

This is an obsolete line of thinking with the new college basketball free agency and this was evidenced in our own conference this year. Creighton and Marquette both returned one of the fewest minutes percentages from last season in the entire country and neither had a top recruiting class coming in. We went 0-3 against them and both made the Tournament. On the flip side, Butler had a ton of minutes continuity from last season and they were terrible.

It's a myth and a boomer talking point backed up by zero evidence that bad teams that return their core and don't add more significant pieces will somehow figure out how to be good. We may not have been a "bad" team but if Julian decided to go pro after last season we would have been. 


"A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on".

A top 3 of Julian, Posh, and Wheeler is way better than Posh, Wheeler and Soriano we were still an under .500 team in the league.

 

[stjohnnie75]

This is why the transfer portal and the one time transfer is so huge.  Ewing and Georgetown are not looking to rebuild.  He wants to win next year and make a huge jump.  He knows he got a huge break not being let go after this past year.  But he can't live on being Pat Ewing much longer.

You get all 3 of these kids and they all are immediately eligible and things start to look different on the Hilltop very quickly:

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/1507176195984613380

Slater’s response:

https://twitter.com/andrew__slater/status/1507414281830076420?s=21&t=Zmvb7IJpDPGmcJSHSfyewg

 

[kranmars]

Davis would be a nice back up for Posh and maybe a spot starter.  And that is fine but he is no difference maker.

They need to hit the mini-lottery a few times in this portal.  Meaning 2 high level starters.

Cannot run it back with same roster minus Champagnie plus a few Stef Smith/Montez Mathis type transfers and expect significantly different results.



 

Why can they not?  The team this year was 2 or 3 last second plays away this year with Champ struggling. UConn, Pitt, Villanova and Creighton these are games that came to the final possession that could have easily went either way.  You are acting as if this team was getting blown out most nights, that was not the case or even close to it.   If they shoot 70%+ from the free throw line as a team this year, it's a tournament team without any sweat on selection Sunday.  The story of this year was poor execution to end big must win games not lack of talent.      

This roster, with Julian shooting 9/19 and 1/6 from 3, was literally just 1 rebound away from beating one of the best teams in the nation in Nova on a neutral court tournament setting.  None of the teams in the NCAA tournament so far has played Nova as close as St. John's did in the BE tournament.

And as far as the portal, if they bring back all of Posh, Wheeler, Mathis, Wusu, Soriano, Pinzon, Stanley, and Nyiwe, I like their chances next year with whoever they fill around them.  Most of your posts talking about next year is assuming nobody makes any progress in the off-season.  Considering over half the guys I just named made huge progress just within the season, I don't think it's unrealistic to assume with a full year in the system these guys will continue to progress in the off-season.  Soriano is just starting to show his potential, Pinzon and Stanley are no where near where they are going to be, Posh is going to get much better with an increased leadership role, Wusu is going to get better now that Pinzon is back and he can move back to SG.  And we know what Wheeler can do now.  I don't think they are as far as away as some of you think.

 

I think you are giddy watching Arkansas that you are painting the perfect SJU off-season, which still may not be good enough to dance next year.

By the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

 

[L J S A]

=13pxBy the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

I feel like weird doesn't play well with the media and fans if the team is losing. And he's a weird guy. Lucky thing he's an excellent coach and plays the transfer game well.

 

[MakingPlays]

Davis would be a nice back up for Posh and maybe a spot starter.  And that is fine but he is no difference maker.

They need to hit the mini-lottery a few times in this portal.  Meaning 2 high level starters.

Cannot run it back with same roster minus Champagnie plus a few Stef Smith/Montez Mathis type transfers and expect significantly different results.





 

Why can they not?  The team this year was 2 or 3 last second plays away this year with Champ struggling. UConn, Pitt, Villanova and Creighton these are games that came to the final possession that could have easily went either way.  You are acting as if this team was getting blown out most nights, that was not the case or even close to it.   If they shoot 70%+ from the free throw line as a team this year, it's a tournament team without any sweat on selection Sunday.  The story of this year was poor execution to end big must win games not lack of talent.      

This roster, with Julian shooting 9/19 and 1/6 from 3, was literally just 1 rebound away from beating one of the best teams in the nation in Nova on a neutral court tournament setting.  None of the teams in the NCAA tournament so far has played Nova as close as St. John's did in the BE tournament.

And as far as the portal, if they bring back all of Posh, Wheeler, Mathis, Wusu, Soriano, Pinzon, Stanley, and Nyiwe, I like their chances next year with whoever they fill around them.  Most of your posts talking about next year is assuming nobody makes any progress in the off-season.  Considering over half the guys I just named made huge progress just within the season, I don't think it's unrealistic to assume with a full year in the system these guys will continue to progress in the off-season.  Soriano is just starting to show his potential, Pinzon and Stanley are no where near where they are going to be, Posh is going to get much better with an increased leadership role, Wusu is going to get better now that Pinzon is back and he can move back to SG.  And we know what Wheeler can do now.  I don't think they are as far as away as some of you think.



 

I think you are giddy watching Arkansas that you are painting the perfect SJU off-season, which still may not be good enough to dance next year.

By the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

What does Musselman have to do with St. John's?  I don't talk about Musselman over here, the same way I don't talk about Anderson over there.  Nobody is talking about what Arkansas is doing and Musselman except for you.  It's two different programs and I realize both are in different situations and I look at both at where they are at and give my honest opinion. Some people are incapable of doing that, I'm not one of those people.

St. John's was a rebuild job,  Arkansas was a job setup to win now, CMA had had 8 winning seasons before Musselman got there with 3 tournament appearances and 2 tournament wins and left the roster with great players such as Mason Jones and Isiah Joe both who went on to be in the NBA, the roster he left was setup to be a bonafide tournament team.  He didn't have that at St. John's.  There's a reason why big names such as Kelvin Sampson, Eric Musselman, Greg Marshall, etc. were all in contention for the Arkansas job.  CMA left it very attractive and it was not that way when he got the program, he inherited a program with no practice facility, APR issues, roster with character issues, players that had been suspended, etc, Musselman didn't inhert any problems close to that.

If you want to talk to me about Musselman you are welcome to look me up on Hogville, otherwise I prefer to talk about St. John's on St. John's message board.  Thanks.
 

 

[MakingPlays]

To think that this team can somehow be better next season while only keeping the core around and adding a few bit pieces around them is laughable. Sure, players like Posh and Soriano will get better between now and the time when next season starts but so will every other returning player in the league. Everybody is of the mindset that if our players show marginal improvement we'll be better because the rest of the league will be standing still. Nonsense.

Georgetown is not going to be two free wins next season. Xavier is going to be much better with Sean Miller running things. Creighton kicked our butts twice this year with a brand new roster and they'll have some continuity next year. Butler doesn't accept the losing they've been experiencing so they'll be aggressively trying to get better too. Villanova is a machine. 

We need to strike gold in this transfer market otherwise we'll be sweating out the NIT selection show again next March.

Not one single person in this thread has said only our players will get better and the rest of the league will stand still. I read the entire thread and not one person even implied that.  What some of us are saying is the core that's likely returning wasn't that far behind as guys like you want to make them out to be.  Those guys competed every night in the league and was only a possession or two away in some big games.  It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for guys new to a system with a full year in the system to make significant improvements, it's not really a hard concept to grasp  Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back.

A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on.  Soriano was just starting to hit his stride.  




 

"Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back."

This is an obsolete line of thinking with the new college basketball free agency and this was evidenced in our own conference this year. Creighton and Marquette both returned one of the fewest minutes percentages from last season in the entire country and neither had a top recruiting class coming in. We went 0-3 against them and both made the Tournament. On the flip side, Butler had a ton of minutes continuity from last season and they were terrible.

It's a myth and a boomer talking point backed up by zero evidence that bad teams that return their core and don't add more significant pieces will somehow figure out how to be good. We may not have been a "bad" team but if Julian decided to go pro after last season we would have been. 


"A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on".

A top 3 of Julian, Posh, and Wheeler is way better than Posh, Wheeler and Soriano we were still an under .500 team in the league.

You literally just make stuff up as you go huh?

First, you made up the story that people were saying no other team is getting better and only St. John's players would get better in the off-season, when literally nobody said that.  You made that up out of thin air.

Now, you are trying to say there's no evidence of teams that return a lot of players as getting better, because Marquette and Creighton got better with a new roster.  Well, I got an example for you, St. Peter's, they returned most of their core players and they went 14-11 last year with no post season.  No major off-season additions from the portal, no great recruiting class, and this season they are currently 22-11 and in the elite 8.  So, that debunks your teams can't improve returning just their core theory.

You make this too easy for me.  Have a good night.

And P.S. Creighton had the #9 recruiting class in the nation.  Might wanna research before your next post.

https://247sports.com/college/creighton/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

 

[Michaelw202]

Making Plays you are making to much sense. Thank you for your post!

 

[MakingPlays]

Hope I’m wrong, but I think this notion that we’re going to return virtually  everyone except Julian is fanciful.

I actually agree, if I were a betting man, I'd bet at least 1 or 2 leave early or transfer out that's just the nature of things.  Everybody is not going to be happy and there's always outside influences, especially during spring break time were kids go home and friends and family start getting in their ears.

I'd rank order of importance like this.

1. Posh
2. Wheeler
3. Soriano
4. Wusu
5. Pinzon
6. Mathis
7. Nyiwe
8. Stanley
9. Traore

The top 5 guys I think are can't lose guys that are critical to keep a good core.  The only 1 that's in the air in that group is Wheeler. And that's if he uses his additional year or not.  You keep all 5 of them and worst case scenario lose 2 of those guys in 6-9, I think that's still a pretty good off-season.  That would have them returning 7 guys and 5 of their top 6 players, on top of adding a top 100 recruit.  All they would have to do in the portal is fill needs based on what they lost.  Obviously the biggest need if roster stays as is, is a shooter.

 

[kranmars]

Making Plays, thank you for the filling my void for a morning lecture. My wife had to run out this morning and she didn’t have the time to do so.

But if you may or may not have noticed, there are a good number of discussions regarding other programs, coaches, and players. We are not relegated to the SJU talking point.

You can ignore my posts because I will not look you up Hogville (even though I am rooting for Arkansas).

In fact, we can just ignore one another’s posts. As an alum and fan of this program for over 40 years, I can and will talk about SJU in whatever context I wish to, as long as I adhere to the forum rules

Thanks.

 

[kranmars]

=13pxBy the way, would you trade Musselman for Anderson?

I feel like weird doesn't play well with the media and fans if the team is losing. And he's a weird guy. Lucky thing he's an excellent coach and plays the transfer game well.

But as we know, it all comes down to winning. Brian Mahoney was one of the nicest and most loyal guys ever around this program, and he was fired.

Maybe SJU should change their hiring practices and look for more “weird” coaches at some point.

 

[MakingPlays]

Making Plays, thank you for the filling my void for a morning lecture. My wife had to run out this morning and she didn’t have the time to do so.

But if you may or may not have noticed, there are a good number of discussions regarding other programs, coaches, and players. We are not relegated to the SJU talking point.

You can ignore my posts because I will not look you up Hogville (even though I am rooting for Arkansas).

In fact, we can just ignore one another’s posts. As an alum and fan of this program for over 40 years, I can and will talk about SJU in whatever context I wish to, as long as I adhere to the forum rules

Thanks.

Your post directed at me was very condescending and off-topic.  You were implying that I just came over here to gloat about Arkansas and didn't know what I was talking about regarding SJU roster and then randomly asked me about Musselman.  I didn't mention Arkansas or Musselman and nothing in your post was about player transfers which the topic is about and what I was discussing.

 

[braintrust]

Wheeler will be 24yo in September. Which means, he would be a 25yo rookie somewhere in 2023.

He should/will be exploring every avenue to start making some cash, domestically and overseas. Clock is ticking.

 

[MakingPlays]

Wheeler will be 24yo in September. Which means, he would be a 25yo rookie somewhere in 2023.

He should/will be exploring every avenue to start making some cash, domestically and overseas. Clock is ticking.

Normally you would be correct, but the thing is, who wants to go over to Europe right now with the war going on?  You got NATO arming up all surrounding countries close to Ukraine.  I wouldn't want to get anywhere near Europe right now.  There's already a WNBA player that got arrested and stuck over there.  And Wheeler is not a 2-way or G-League player at this point.  His best bet may be to get a good NIL deal, build his stock and play consistently for a whole year, and hope he can get on the G-League radar for next year or things in Europe get better.

 

[kranmars]

Making Plays, thank you for the filling my void for a morning lecture. My wife had to run out this morning and she didn’t have the time to do so.

But if you may or may not have noticed, there are a good number of discussions regarding other programs, coaches, and players. We are not relegated to the SJU talking point.

You can ignore my posts because I will not look you up Hogville (even though I am rooting for Arkansas).

In fact, we can just ignore one another’s posts. As an alum and fan of this program for over 40 years, I can and will talk about SJU in whatever context I wish to, as long as I adhere to the forum rules

Thanks.

Your post directed at me was very condescending and off-topic.  You were implying that I just came over here to gloat about Arkansas and didn't know what I was talking about regarding SJU roster and then randomly asked me about Musselman.  I didn't mention Arkansas or Musselman and nothing in your post was about player transfers which the topic is about and what I was discussing. That's cool that you've been a fan for 40 years, cool that you attended the university, congrats on all of that.  Still doesn't give you a pass to be a jerk to someone for no reason, I've never come at you like that.  

Kinda funny some of the mods pick and choose when it's ok to stay on topic...

This is it for me. Never said you came to gloat, because Arkansas winning has nothing to do with SJU.

My issue was that you came and defended Anderson, something you do often, with the rosiest of rosiest pictures of next year. So I did stay on topic by responding to you.

How about if I found that post condescending because I should be excited over something that will in no way, shape, matter, or form happen.

And if I am jerk, so be it.

 

[Mug Costanza]

To think that this team can somehow be better next season while only keeping the core around and adding a few bit pieces around them is laughable. Sure, players like Posh and Soriano will get better between now and the time when next season starts but so will every other returning player in the league. Everybody is of the mindset that if our players show marginal improvement we'll be better because the rest of the league will be standing still. Nonsense.

Georgetown is not going to be two free wins next season. Xavier is going to be much better with Sean Miller running things. Creighton kicked our butts twice this year with a brand new roster and they'll have some continuity next year. Butler doesn't accept the losing they've been experiencing so they'll be aggressively trying to get better too. Villanova is a machine. 

We need to strike gold in this transfer market otherwise we'll be sweating out the NIT selection show again next March.

Not one single person in this thread has said only our players will get better and the rest of the league will stand still. I read the entire thread and not one person even implied that.  What some of us are saying is the core that's likely returning wasn't that far behind as guys like you want to make them out to be.  Those guys competed every night in the league and was only a possession or two away in some big games.  It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for guys new to a system with a full year in the system to make significant improvements, it's not really a hard concept to grasp  Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back.

A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on.  Soriano was just starting to hit his stride.  





 

"Teams that have more returning guys on average tend to improve from the previous year and teams that lose more guys barring a top recruiting class coming in tend to take a step back."

This is an obsolete line of thinking with the new college basketball free agency and this was evidenced in our own conference this year. Creighton and Marquette both returned one of the fewest minutes percentages from last season in the entire country and neither had a top recruiting class coming in. We went 0-3 against them and both made the Tournament. On the flip side, Butler had a ton of minutes continuity from last season and they were terrible.

It's a myth and a boomer talking point backed up by zero evidence that bad teams that return their core and don't add more significant pieces will somehow figure out how to be good. We may not have been a "bad" team but if Julian decided to go pro after last season we would have been. 


"A top 3 of Posh, Wheeler, and Soriano should be considered with top 3 of most in the league if all 3 continue on the path they were on".

A top 3 of Julian, Posh, and Wheeler is way better than Posh, Wheeler and Soriano we were still an under .500 team in the league.

You literally just make stuff up as you go huh?

First, you made up the story that people were saying no other team is getting better and only St. John's players would get better in the off-season, when literally nobody said that.  You made that up out of thin air.

Now, you are trying to say there's no evidence of teams that return a lot of players as getting better, because Marquette and Creighton got better with a new roster.  Well, I got an example for you, St. Peter's, they returned most of their core players and they went 14-11 last year with no post season.  No major off-season additions from the portal, no great recruiting class, and this season they are currently 22-11 and in the elite 8.  So, that debunks your teams can't improve returning just their core theory.

You make this too easy for me.  Have a good night.

And P.S. Creighton had the #9 recruiting class in the nation.  Might wanna research before your next post.

https://247sports.com/college/creighton/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

You say I make things up out of thin air but I never said teams can't improve just by returning their core. I said there's no data to back up the point that bad teams suddenly becoming good because of experience and chemistry is the norm. For every one St Peter's run there's 20 teams that have more continuity and experience that continue to be bad, like Fairfield in the same conference as St Peter's.

As an Arkansas guy you should know that continuity from year to year is overrated seeing how Arkansas is in the elite 8 while only returning the 292nd most minutes in the country from last year. To do that Muss went out and got high-impact guys like Umude, Toney, Wade, and Lykes. If SJU brings in another class of Stef Smiths and not high impact guys like Arkansas did then CMA will be your neighbor again by this time next year.

Once again, the actual data is pretty clear that there's no correlation between experience/chemistry and making big one year leaps. 

 

[19854ever]

Who is going to step in and replace Julian’s points ? And if Wheeler goes too? That’s 35-40 points on most nights.