Staffing Change

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[quote="Class of 72" post=288595][quote="Beast of the East" post=288567][quote="Class of 72" post=288563][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread![/quote]

I kind of prefer your new and inventive ways to serve the same crap up. Kind of like a chef extraordinaire for leftover crap.

I'll try to jazz up my same old crap in the future. Unless of course you weren't referring to me as one of the three. Then I will just say i love all of your posts :)[/quote]

So you know that I love to cook and stir the pot. ;)
Beast, yes we need a jazz up in our kitchen. The restaurant reviews have been terrible. With the best kitchen staff in years, especially with a new pâtissier named Mustapha Heron, the professional restaurant critics still don't have Chez SJU sniffing a national ranking because they have doubts that master chef Mullin can improve his menu and he obviously still needs help in the kitchen while his associate head chef is cashing 600K per year but is not allowed to step foot in the kitchen. To make matters worse the incompetent managing director and his puppet master decided to raise the menu prices while serving up the same menu. The gamble game they are playing is hoping one good year will mollify the patrons who have been stiffed out of a good meal for three years by including a 20% gratuity whether you like the service or not.
Now, Mrs. 72 and I dine out a few times a week and love a good meal but I rarely return to a restaurant that gives me agita and charges me gratuity even when the service sucks.
What does all of the above have to do with St. John's basketball? Absolutely nothing but I was easily distracted and I digressed when you complimented me and called me a chef extraordinaire for leftover crap.
Oh, and you were not one of the three, the 3rd was a bona-fide defender of the realm here but do not fret as you are in my top 10.;) :p[/quote] maybe we need a Peruvian chef on staff [attachment=233]2992A3C9-9210-4CF6-9C32-754D2D9E30E6.jpeg[/attachment] [attachment=234]9A6D5A16-77A6-4E62-B817-09A0121093D3.jpeg[/attachment]
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=288613][quote="Paultzman" post=288602][quote="Mike Zaun" post=288598]Really not trying to stir the pot here...I know you guys will kill me for this but just an honest thought. Of course I hope all works out and we are all happy after next year with Mullin, but if it doesn't, is Musselman an option from Nevada? If he gets paid $1 mil at a no name school you'd think he would come to a major program like ours and get paid a ton more if not double.[/quote]
Immediate gratification need is clearly in your DNA.[/quote]

Mike is a masterdebater and sometimes speaks prematurely. Today's yout! Gotta love em. Kid still is a big supporter. Just says and repeats the opposite of whatever Sly and Logen repeat.
Face it, we are a bunch of mockingbirds here but Mikey sings Mullin's Swan song a lot.;)[/quote]

Some call it a masterdebater, others might call it masteraggravator.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=288563][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread.[/quote]

I keep repeating myself because it is true; funny none of you geniuses ever address my points, mostly because you have trouble getting past your childish attempts at sarcastic humor. Let me spell it out for you - everyone clamors for staff changes but nobody ever says WHY? Oh yeah, our defense. The defense that improved dramatically last season under this inept staff. And recruiting, the recruiting that in basically our second season left us one quitter from a possible NCAA tournament and has us on the verge of a possible Top 25 season this year. And has us in the running still for recruits on paper we have no business being in the hunt for. Yes, I know, I know, you don't settle!!. So you want everyone to come and live in your fantasy world where instantly SJU is on a par with the Dukes and the Kentuckys' and the Kansas'. You can't tell how or why SJU is a viable stop for such players but dammit, it should have already happened because you don't settle. Comical, comical. And please while you are changing my mind please tell me why Mullin should be held to a higher standard than Jay Wright or Coach K or Jim Calhoun were after inheriting a program in much worse shape than those legends did? So I repeat, repeat, repeat, but you don't have to read my posts or respond .........but if you do, here's a novel idea, bring something real to the table, something concrete, something discussable, more than the repetition of the very soft and general musings of people who don't like Mullin for whatever reason, lemmings all.
 
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[quote="Logen" post=288629][quote="Class of 72" post=288563][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread.[/quote]

I keep repeating myself because it is true; funny none of you geniuses ever address my points, mostly because you have trouble getting past your childish attempts at sarcastic humor. Let me spell it out for you - everyone clamors for staff changes but nobody ever says WHY? Oh yeah, our defense. The defense that improved dramatically last season under this inept staff. And recruiting, the recruiting that in basically our second season left us one quitter from a possible NCAA tournament and has us on the verge of a possible Top 25 season this year. And has us in the running still for recruits on paper we have no business being in the hunt for. Yes, I know, I know, you don't settle!!. So you want everyone to come and live in your fantasy world where instantly SJU is on a par with the Dukes and the Kentuckys' and the Kansas'. You can't tell how or why SJU is a viable stop for such players but dammit, it should have already happened because you don't settle. Comical, comical. And please while you are changing my mind please tell me why Mullin should be held to a higher standard than Jay Wright or Coach K or Jim Calhoun were after inheriting a program in much worse shape than those legends did? So I repeat, repeat, repeat, but you don't have to read my posts or respond .........but if you do, here's a novel idea, bring something real to the table, something concrete, something discussable, more than the repetition of the very soft and general musings of people who don't like Mullin for whatever reason, lemmings all.[/quote]

Maybe nobody is addressing your points because you are creating straw man arguments that you know the answer to. When did you stop beating your wife?

The idea of asking for a staff change because at least 1 assistant does nothing is NOT equivalent to thinking you are the equal of Duke or Kentucky.

Furthermore the previous regime went 10-8 the last two years, won 20 games 3 times, went to 2 NIT's and 2 NCAA's in 5 years and was fired because that was NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Are you equating that firing to the fact that SJU thinks it can be Duke or Kentucky.

Being Duke or Kentucky had nothing to do with wasting time on Zach Brown after UCONN dumped him and then lo and behold he commits armed robbery and SJU has to drop him. Being Duke or Kentucky has nothing to do with hiring Barry Rohrssen and then failing to manage his role to the point where he felt the need to quit. Being Duke or Kentucky had nothing to do with then hiring an NBA Hall of Famer who literally does nothing wrt recruiting.
 
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[quote="Logen" post=288629][quote="Class of 72" post=288563][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread.[/quote]

I keep repeating myself because it is true; funny none of you geniuses ever address my points, mostly because you have trouble getting past your childish attempts at sarcastic humor. Let me spell it out for you - everyone clamors for staff changes but nobody ever says WHY? Oh yeah, our defense. The defense that improved dramatically last season under this inept staff. And recruiting, the recruiting that in basically our second season left us one quitter from a possible NCAA tournament and has us on the verge of a possible Top 25 season this year. And has us in the running still for recruits on paper we have no business being in the hunt for. Yes, I know, I know, you don't settle!!. So you want everyone to come and live in your fantasy world where instantly SJU is on a par with the Dukes and the Kentuckys' and the Kansas'. You can't tell how or why SJU is a viable stop for such players but dammit, it should have already happened because you don't settle. Comical, comical. And please while you are changing my mind please tell me why Mullin should be held to a higher standard than Jay Wright or Coach K or Jim Calhoun were after inheriting a program in much worse shape than those legends did? So I repeat, repeat, repeat, but you don't have to read my posts or respond .........but if you do, here's a novel idea, bring something real to the table, something concrete, something discussable, more than the repetition of the very soft and general musings of people who don't like Mullin for whatever reason, lemmings all.[/quote]


On point, a GREAT POST. Short and succinct.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=288631][quote="Logen" post=288629][quote="Class of 72" post=288563][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread.[/quote]

I keep repeating myself because it is true; funny none of you geniuses ever address my points, mostly because you have trouble getting past your childish attempts at sarcastic humor. Let me spell it out for you - everyone clamors for staff changes but nobody ever says WHY? Oh yeah, our defense. The defense that improved dramatically last season under this inept staff. And recruiting, the recruiting that in basically our second season left us one quitter from a possible NCAA tournament and has us on the verge of a possible Top 25 season this year. And has us in the running still for recruits on paper we have no business being in the hunt for. Yes, I know, I know, you don't settle!!. So you want everyone to come and live in your fantasy world where instantly SJU is on a par with the Dukes and the Kentuckys' and the Kansas'. You can't tell how or why SJU is a viable stop for such players but dammit, it should have already happened because you don't settle. Comical, comical. And please while you are changing my mind please tell me why Mullin should be held to a higher standard than Jay Wright or Coach K or Jim Calhoun were after inheriting a program in much worse shape than those legends did? So I repeat, repeat, repeat, but you don't have to read my posts or respond .........but if you do, here's a novel idea, bring something real to the table, something concrete, something discussable, more than the repetition of the very soft and general musings of people who don't like Mullin for whatever reason, lemmings all.[/quote]

Maybe nobody is addressing your points because you are creating straw man arguments that you know the answer to. When did you stop beating your wife?

The idea of asking for a staff change because at least 1 assistant does nothing is NOT equivalent to thinking you are the equal of Duke or Kentucky.

Furthermore the previous regime went 10-8 the last two years, won 20 games 3 times, went to 2 NIT's and 2 NCAA's in 5 years and was fired because that was NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Are you equating that firing to the fact that SJU thinks it can be Duke or Kentucky?

Being Duke or Kentucky had nothing to do with wasting time on Zach Brown after UCONN dumped him and then lo and behold he commits armed robbery and SJU has to drop him. Being Duke or Kentucky has nothing to do with hiring Barry Rohrssen and then failing to manage his role to the point where he felt the need to quit. Being Duke or Kentucky had nothing to do with then hiring an NBA Hall of Famer who literally does nothing wrt recruiting.[/quote]
 
One last thing, the "held to a higher standard than Coach X" is the LAZIEST argument in the world. And it shows a complete lack of anything interesting to say. The Coach K argument has been addressed a 1000x he is the exception rather than the rule. Calhoun took over a program WITH ABSOLUTELY NO HISTORY. His turnaround job is one of the 3 greatest turnaround jobs EVER. Mullin's situation is nowhere close to that. Jay Wright's first 3 teams at Nova were NIT, NIT and NIT. Disappointment definitely. But last time I checked NIT/NIT/NIT does not equate to Losing record last place/Losing record 7th place/Losing record last place....

More importantly are you saying none of those 3 coaches weren't criticized when they had their early "struggles?" Let alone they did not live in the world of social media where everything right or wrong is blasted in two seconds on twitter?

Is Mullin being held to the same standard as Kevin Stallings? Last time I checked Stallings got exactly 2 years before he was canned at Pitt taking over a once proud but clearly declining program in a very difficult conference? The answer to that is Mullin is being held to a lower standard. Should I mention that or are we just going to mention coaches who got leeway and went on to HOF careers. Because there is a flip side too, no? Or do we make lazy arguments because we have nothing really interesting to say?
 
This is just like politics, you have pro coach and anti coach then the majority are in the middle. Wanting a change to the staff shouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing. Anyone can see that there is a need for another recruiter and help with coaching. For the people who don’t think we do, then that will be their stance no matter what.
Right now we have Mitch who is more like an intern. What are his duties in the offseason compared to a typical asst. coach? Just think for a moment of where we would be if Matt wasn’t on the staff. Scary thought right??
I’m pretty sure the majority of us knows we will never be on par with Kentucky, Duke or Kansas and a lot others and we are ok with that. People just want ALL the coaches to be busting their a$$ to bring in the best available players who can compete on the Big East level.
Let me ask the people who think the staff is fine this question. If you were Matt what would you be thinking if you saw Mitch doing nothing on the recruiting trail during the off-season. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sit there and say that’s ok he is busy hanging in California.
 
[quote="Mike" post=288640]This is just like politics, you have pro coach and anti coach then the majority are in the middle. Wanting a change to the staff shouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing. Anyone can see that there is a need for another recruiter and help with coaching. For the people who don’t think we do, then that will be their stance no matter what.
Right now we have Mitch who is more like an intern. What are his duties in the offseason compared to a typical asst. coach? Just think for a moment of where we would be if Matt wasn’t on the staff. Scary thought right??
I’m pretty sure the majority of us knows we will never be on par with Kentucky, Duke or Kansas and a lot others and we are ok with that. People just want ALL the coaches to be busting their a$$ to bring in the best available players who can compete on the Big East level.
Let me ask the people who think the staff is fine this question. If you were Matt what would you be thinking if you saw Mitch doing nothing on the recruiting trail during the off-season. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sit there and say that’s ok he is busy hanging in California.[/quote]

Well said, Mike
This is exactly why Mitch should be an advisor and we should hire a "full time" assistant coach
We need an experienced guy who has knowledge of x's and o's, player development and recruiting
As hard as Matt works, it takes a team effort to recruit effectively. He can't be everywhere!!
 
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[quote="Mike" post=288640]This is just like politics, you have pro coach and anti coach then the majority are in the middle. Wanting a change to the staff shouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing. Anyone can see that there is a need for another recruiter and help with coaching. For the people who don’t think we do, then that will be their stance no matter what.
Right now we have Mitch who is more like an intern. What are his duties in the offseason compared to a typical asst. coach? Just think for a moment of where we would be if Matt wasn’t on the staff. Scary thought right??
I’m pretty sure the majority of us knows we will never be on par with Kentucky, Duke or Kansas and a lot others and we are ok with that. People just want ALL the coaches to be busting their a$$ to bring in the best available players who can compete on the Big East level.
Let me ask the people who think the staff is fine this question. If you were Matt what would you be thinking if you saw Mitch doing nothing on the recruiting trail during the off-season. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sit there and say that’s ok he is busy hanging in California.[/quote]
Mike is a very sensible, grounded guy imo.
 
[quote="usguard" post=288645]Why should he even be an advisor?[/quote]

Gene Keady he IS NOT!
In what capacity was MR employed since retiring from playing?
Did it qualify him to "advise" a rookie coach?
Hopefully he is serving a purpose in the area of player development but I barely hear a peep about that from players.
He does look impressive on the bench with Mullin and perhaps that's the objective.;)
 
[quote="Mike" post=288640]This is just like politics, you have pro coach and anti coach then the majority are in the middle. Wanting a change to the staff shouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing. Anyone can see that there is a need for another recruiter and help with coaching. For the people who don’t think we do, then that will be their stance no matter what.
Right now we have Mitch who is more like an intern. What are his duties in the offseason compared to a typical asst. coach? Just think for a moment of where we would be if Matt wasn’t on the staff. Scary thought right??
I’m pretty sure the majority of us knows we will never be on par with Kentucky, Duke or Kansas and a lot others and we are ok with that. People just want ALL the coaches to be busting their a$$ to bring in the best available players who can compete on the Big East level.
Let me ask the people who think the staff is fine this question. If you were Matt what would you be thinking if you saw Mitch doing nothing on the recruiting trail during the off-season. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sit there and say that’s ok he is busy hanging in California.[/quote] brilliant post. And i don’t say this just because you took my recommendation and going to s certain winery restaurant in Italy for an awesome meal last month. Lol but definitely very reasonable post!!! But at this stage let’s be honest. Not one pro Mullin all things are good guys will be convinced a coaching staff change needs to be made. By the same token the rest of us want 1 change for sure. It is what it is. If Heron is eligible we are stacked next year and should be excellent no matter what. We will all be happy. If that leads to momentum with high school class immediately then all the better. If we don’t play well and Heron and Ponds go pro or Europe and don’t land immediate recruits then things are going to be hard to defend. I stand by my wanting Rice and swap out a certain coach but it is what it is. I’m past the point of caring about it now. It’s all on Mullin good or bad this year and after so let’s all hope it’s good !!!!
 
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MJMaherjr wrote: Mike wrote: This is just like politics, you have pro coach and anti coach then the majority are in the middle. Wanting a change to the staff shouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing. Anyone can see that there is a need for another recruiter and help with coaching. For the people who don’t think we do, then that will be their stance no matter what.
Right now we have Mitch who is more like an intern. What are his duties in the offseason compared to a typical asst. coach? Just think for a moment of where we would be if Matt wasn’t on the staff. Scary thought right??
I’m pretty sure the majority of us knows we will never be on par with Kentucky, Duke or Kansas and a lot others and we are ok with that. People just want ALL the coaches to be busting their a$$ to bring in the best available players who can compete on the Big East level.
Let me ask the people who think the staff is fine this question. If you were Matt what would you be thinking if you saw Mitch doing nothing on the recruiting trail during the off-season. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sit there and say that’s ok he is busy hanging in California.
brilliant post. And i don’t say this just because you took my recommendation and going to s certain winery restaurant for an awesome meal last month. Lol but definitely very reasonable post!!! But at this stage let’s be honest. Not one pro Mullin all things are good guys will be convinced a coaching staff change needs to be made. By the same token the rest of us want 1 change for sure. It is what it is. If Heron is eligible we are stacked next year and should be excellent no matter what. We will all be happy. If that leads to momentum with high school class immediately then all the better. If we don’t play well and Heron and Ponds and don’t land immediate recruits then things are going to be hard to defend. I stand by my wanting Rice and swap out a certain coach but it is what it is. I’m past the point of caring about it now. It’s all on Mullin good or bad this year and after so let’s all hope it’s good !!!!

I agree with both of these (Mike's & Mjmahjrer's) posts. Only thing I would add is that while I don't expect us to be on level of Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC etc., I do look for us to get to the level of PC, Hall, Butler, Creighton, Xavier on a consistent basis. If we do, I will be a very happy redmen.comer.
 
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Agree NCJohnnie, it’s dammed ‘patriotic’ to call truth out and speak up for a necessary Staff change.
That said, it’s obvious the whole Board is excited about next season!
Exciting possibilities that hopefully leads to recruiting success for St. John’s in 2019 and continuing relevancy in the BEC for years.
Let the games begin.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=288668]MJMaherjr wrote: Mike wrote: This is just like politics, you have pro coach and anti coach then the majority are in the middle. Wanting a change to the staff shouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing. Anyone can see that there is a need for another recruiter and help with coaching. For the people who don’t think we do, then that will be their stance no matter what.
Right now we have Mitch who is more like an intern. What are his duties in the offseason compared to a typical asst. coach? Just think for a moment of where we would be if Matt wasn’t on the staff. Scary thought right??
I’m pretty sure the majority of us knows we will never be on par with Kentucky, Duke or Kansas and a lot others and we are ok with that. People just want ALL the coaches to be busting their a$$ to bring in the best available players who can compete on the Big East level.
Let me ask the people who think the staff is fine this question. If you were Matt what would you be thinking if you saw Mitch doing nothing on the recruiting trail during the off-season. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t sit there and say that’s ok he is busy hanging in California.
brilliant post. And i don’t say this just because you took my recommendation and going to s certain winery restaurant for an awesome meal last month. Lol but definitely very reasonable post!!! But at this stage let’s be honest. Not one pro Mullin all things are good guys will be convinced a coaching staff change needs to be made. By the same token the rest of us want 1 change for sure. It is what it is. If Heron is eligible we are stacked next year and should be excellent no matter what. We will all be happy. If that leads to momentum with high school class immediately then all the better. If we don’t play well and Heron and Ponds and don’t land immediate recruits then things are going to be hard to defend. I stand by my wanting Rice and swap out a certain coach but it is what it is. I’m past the point of caring about it now. It’s all on Mullin good or bad this year and after so let’s all hope it’s good !!!!

I agree with both of these (Mike's & Mjmahjrer's) posts. Only thing I would add is that while I don't expect us to be on level of Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC etc., I do look for us to get to the level of PC, Hall, Butler, Creighton, Xavier on a consistent basis. If we do, I will be a very happy redmen.comer.[/quote]

Botta-book, Botta-boom
 
Big time college sports is a nasty game. You have to look for every advantage possible. Some schools bend the rules, and many break them. I say if there is an assistant out there that can change us from being in a 5 star recruit's top 5 to tilting the odds in our favor, the move should be made. Especially if that coach can being the deciding factor on more big time recruits in the future. It's nice to be "in the mix" for Aiden, Kofi and Precious, but you can't make an across the board wager on recruiting and make a small profit on the play. It's win betting only, and missing out on the guys the staff has been courting for years will be a real indication on how far this program can go with the current staff in place.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=288631][quote="Logen" post=288629][quote="Class of 72" post=288563][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread.[/quote]

I keep repeating myself because it is true; funny none of you geniuses ever address my points, mostly because you have trouble getting past your childish attempts at sarcastic humor. Let me spell it out for you - everyone clamors for staff changes but nobody ever says WHY? Oh yeah, our defense. The defense that improved dramatically last season under this inept staff. And recruiting, the recruiting that in basically our second season left us one quitter from a possible NCAA tournament and has us on the verge of a possible Top 25 season this year. And has us in the running still for recruits on paper we have no business being in the hunt for. Yes, I know, I know, you don't settle!!. So you want everyone to come and live in your fantasy world where instantly SJU is on a par with the Dukes and the Kentuckys' and the Kansas'. You can't tell how or why SJU is a viable stop for such players but dammit, it should have already happened because you don't settle. Comical, comical. And please while you are changing my mind please tell me why Mullin should be held to a higher standard than Jay Wright or Coach K or Jim Calhoun were after inheriting a program in much worse shape than those legends did? So I repeat, repeat, repeat, but you don't have to read my posts or respond .........but if you do, here's a novel idea, bring something real to the table, something concrete, something discussable, more than the repetition of the very soft and general musings of people who don't like Mullin for whatever reason, lemmings all.[/quote]

Maybe nobody is addressing your points because you are creating straw man arguments that you know the answer to. When did you stop beating your wife?[/quote]

I've stayed away from this site, as there are a few posters that I don't care about and don't particularly feel like dialoguing in the same space as 'em. But I felt like piggybacking fordham on this one.

The majority of his posts are strawman and counterfactual fallacies (speculative fallacies). A bunch of bombastic and deflection. Anyone who agrees with his BS has their head up their anuses moreso than in the sand.
 
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This reminds me of the Whitehead recruitment, but not as shady and not giving up as much.

As we know for that, Whitehead helped SHU get to the Tournament and also WIN the BET. SHU then made it back to the Tournament the following two years. It was a turning point for the program, and they've had a nice three year run capped off by an NCAA win. We all know the SJU/Lavin story.

If Mullin can make the Tournament this year, then obviously getting a recruit like Lewis for 2019 isn't critical at all. However, Mullin (like Lavin) isn't in a fantastic position at the moment and can't afford a disappointing 2019 season and/or recruiting class.

A hire like Rice seems like a much better hire than Tiny. So, even if Lewis doesn't ultimately commit, I think this would be the smart move to make.
 
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