Staffing Change

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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=288542][quote="fordham96" post=288537]In game coaching and play calling is overrated as an issue. The issue is talent and depth.

Zach was not given the time of day by the previous staff. He bad mouthed them on the way out. He continually told us the current staff would recruit circles around the previous staff, especially after they started talking to him. That has not gone to plan. He looks a bit foolish. Then he wrote a timid piece claiming that this coming year had a chance to be real good, best team since Final 8 team in 99 but they needed 1)Continuity and 2) Staff change. Well the continuity thing really didn't happen as several players he did not anticipate transferred and the staff change did not happen. Ironically the team does look to be better with those changes especially if Heron is eligible. But bottom line is he has not been right about a lot. And that is because he allowed personal bias to interfere with reporting and now he is invested in this staff. And this is not a defense of the previous staff just a basic understanding of how he has been operating the last 3+ years. If he is so convinced that Mullin should make a new hire (btw he would continually deflect questions before since they did not have an opening. Last time I checked they still don't, yet.) and yet Mulin refuses to and it is so "obvious" that he should then he should be advocating for his dismissal not campaigning for him to do something. He is not a fan he is a journalist.[/quote]

It's nice when Zach gives positive publicity to the program, but he kind of reminds me of Francesa in that he is a jerk to many fans and acts like he's a sports god that knows all. Can be quite condescending.

I'd also disagree that coaching is overrated. I used to think the same but tell me for a second you don't think Jay Wright could have gotten much more out of our teams the past few years. Lavin had tons of talent and his high water mark was squeaking into the tourney and losing immediately with Sweet 16 level talent.[/quote]

Keep ignoring the facts but Wright had very talented teams early in his Villanova tenure that he did not win with,causing “fans” like yourself to criticize him and call for his dismissal. It makes no sense to compare Mullin to the Wright of today. Compare him to Wright in his first couple of years at Nova and take into account what each inherited and any objective observer would conclude Mullin stands up ok at worst. Also to Coach K. That does not mean Mullin will match either long term by ANY means but it does mean that the criticism is extremely premature IMO. To clarify, that does not mean Mullin should not be criticized by any means but much of it borders on the ridiculous again IMO. We have a potential Top 25 team but even before it happens some are complaining it may only be one year. Admiitedly tough gets and probably long shots all, but we remain in the running for very significant recruits yet post after post insist we aren’t out there recruiting, which is absurd. I would like one of those posters to explain how we are so damned lucky to not recruit yet still be in the game for these type players. Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities. Lemmings being lemmings.
 
I didn't say coaching is overrated, I said it in the context of why SJU has struggled. Lack of coaching is not the main problem for SJU. Talent level and depth which is directly attributable to the poor recruitiing which this staff was supposed to correct.

And I did not say specifically Zach should advocate for a coaching change or that he should give "good publicity" either. I merely explained why he writes what he writes and why in many cases it is inconsistent and if he truyly wanted to be consistent he would need to advocate X or Y.
 
[quote="Logen" post=288548][quote="Mike Zaun" post=288542][quote="fordham96" post=288537]In game coaching and play calling is overrated as an issue. The issue is talent and depth.

Zach was not given the time of day by the previous staff. He bad mouthed them on the way out. He continually told us the current staff would recruit circles around the previous staff, especially after they started talking to him. That has not gone to plan. He looks a bit foolish. Then he wrote a timid piece claiming that this coming year had a chance to be real good, best team since Final 8 team in 99 but they needed 1)Continuity and 2) Staff change. Well the continuity thing really didn't happen as several players he did not anticipate transferred and the staff change did not happen. Ironically the team does look to be better with those changes especially if Heron is eligible. But bottom line is he has not been right about a lot. And that is because he allowed personal bias to interfere with reporting and now he is invested in this staff. And this is not a defense of the previous staff just a basic understanding of how he has been operating the last 3+ years. If he is so convinced that Mullin should make a new hire (btw he would continually deflect questions before since they did not have an opening. Last time I checked they still don't, yet.) and yet Mulin refuses to and it is so "obvious" that he should then he should be advocating for his dismissal not campaigning for him to do something. He is not a fan he is a journalist.[/quote]

It's nice when Zach gives positive publicity to the program, but he kind of reminds me of Francesa in that he is a jerk to many fans and acts like he's a sports god that knows all. Can be quite condescending.

I'd also disagree that coaching is overrated. I used to think the same but tell me for a second you don't think Jay Wright could have gotten much more out of our teams the past few years. Lavin had tons of talent and his high water mark was squeaking into the tourney and losing immediately with Sweet 16 level talent.[/quote]

Keep ignoring the facts but Wright had very talented teams early in his Villanova tenure that he did not win with,causing “fans” like yourself to criticize him and call for his dismissal. It makes no sense to compare Mullin to the Wright of today. Compare him to Wright in his first couple of years at Nova and take into account what each inherited and any objective observer would conclude Mullin stands up ok at worst. Also to Coach K. That does not mean Mullin will match either long term by ANY means but it does mean that the criticism is extremely premature IMO. To clarify, that does not mean Mullin should not be criticized by any means but much of it borders on the ridiculous again IMO. We have a potential Top 25 team but even before it happens some are complaining it may only be one year. Admiitedly tough gets and probably long shots all, but we remain in the running for very significant recruits yet post after post insist we aren’t out there recruiting, which is absurd. I would like one of those posters to explain how we are so damned lucky to not recruit yet still be in the game for these type players. Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities. Lemmings being lemmings.[/quote]

Mullin has had 3 full years. This is his 4th season. The "he started with nothing" adage is gone now. He has all of his guys and there's no one leftover from the Lavin era. He has made his bed the way he has wanted, so it's completely fair to be critical of dismal results at this juncture. I swear we can be 20 years into a Mullin tenure with the same results every year and there would still be a handful who "remind" us (as if we didn't already know) that he started with nothing. At the end of the day you can either coach or you cannot. Let's hope this season shows us he has talent in that regard.
 
Logen wrote:
"Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities."

Your statement is correct. We hated the hire because (a) Mullin could only tarnish his reputation as a redmen icon as he had nothing to prove as a long retired NBA Hall of Famer; (b) Both Mullin's salary and especially that of Slice were ludicrous and negate the opinions that St. John's was so cash strapped that they turned to Mullin to "save and restore" the basketball program. (C) There was no "style" to criticize as Mullin hadn't coached a day in his life! Beast of the East had more coaching experience in CYO than Mully!
THOSE were the reasons many here were perplexed by the hire. Once on board we are still waiting and hoping Mully finally gets it as a college coach. This year will tell us everything we need to know to give him his 4 year final grade.

Finally, you may have been in a sanitarium to have missed the few hundred posts over his first two years as coach where many, maybe even you, expected an NCAA or NIT bid at MINIMUM in his third year. Considering Lavin physically "coached " St. John's 4 years and went to post season every year, with 2 NCAA and 2 NITs, Mullin was supposed to be an "upgrade".
Only some Homer drunk on Kool-Aid would miss the obvious 3 year losing record and continue to blame the previous staff, the Mullin players that left the program prematurely, the firing but not firing of Slice, Mitch Richmond's invisible contributions, etc.
You are what your record says you are and we have stunk, plain and simple. Now, President Bobby and the incompetent Oliva raise our ticket prices so we can smell the stench better.
Now the Goff conundrum!
You literally can't make this shit up!:whistle:
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=288551][quote="Logen" post=288548][quote="Mike Zaun" post=288542][quote="fordham96" post=288537]In game coaching and play calling is overrated as an issue. The issue is talent and depth.

Zach was not given the time of day by the previous staff. He bad mouthed them on the way out. He continually told us the current staff would recruit circles around the previous staff, especially after they started talking to him. That has not gone to plan. He looks a bit foolish. Then he wrote a timid piece claiming that this coming year had a chance to be real good, best team since Final 8 team in 99 but they needed 1)Continuity and 2) Staff change. Well the continuity thing really didn't happen as several players he did not anticipate transferred and the staff change did not happen. Ironically the team does look to be better with those changes especially if Heron is eligible. But bottom line is he has not been right about a lot. And that is because he allowed personal bias to interfere with reporting and now he is invested in this staff. And this is not a defense of the previous staff just a basic understanding of how he has been operating the last 3+ years. If he is so convinced that Mullin should make a new hire (btw he would continually deflect questions before since they did not have an opening. Last time I checked they still don't, yet.) and yet Mulin refuses to and it is so "obvious" that he should then he should be advocating for his dismissal not campaigning for him to do something. He is not a fan he is a journalist.[/quote]

It's nice when Zach gives positive publicity to the program, but he kind of reminds me of Francesa in that he is a jerk to many fans and acts like he's a sports god that knows all. Can be quite condescending.

I'd also disagree that coaching is overrated. I used to think the same but tell me for a second you don't think Jay Wright could have gotten much more out of our teams the past few years. Lavin had tons of talent and his high water mark was squeaking into the tourney and losing immediately with Sweet 16 level talent.[/quote]

Keep ignoring the facts but Wright had very talented teams early in his Villanova tenure that he did not win with,causing “fans” like yourself to criticize him and call for his dismissal. It makes no sense to compare Mullin to the Wright of today. Compare him to Wright in his first couple of years at Nova and take into account what each inherited and any objective observer would conclude Mullin stands up ok at worst. Also to Coach K. That does not mean Mullin will match either long term by ANY means but it does mean that the criticism is extremely premature IMO. To clarify, that does not mean Mullin should not be criticized by any means but much of it borders on the ridiculous again IMO. We have a potential Top 25 team but even before it happens some are complaining it may only be one year. Admiitedly tough gets and probably long shots all, but we remain in the running for very significant recruits yet post after post insist we aren’t out there recruiting, which is absurd. I would like one of those posters to explain how we are so damned lucky to not recruit yet still be in the game for these type players. Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities. Lemmings being lemmings.[/quote]

Mullin has had 3 full years. This is his 4th season. The "he started with nothing" adage is gone now. He has all of his guys and there's no one leftover from the Lavin era. He has made his bed the way he has wanted, so it's completely fair to be critical of dismal results at this juncture. I swear we can be 20 years into a Mullin tenure with the same results every year and there would still be a handful who "remind" us (as if we didn't already know) that he started with nothing. At the end of the day you can either coach or you cannot. Let's hope this season shows us he has talent in that regard.[/quote]

One thing I would say is that the players Mullin recruited the first 2 years knew they would get Big East playing time here that was not available at just about any major conference school. Each time we recruited someone above those guys (those guys being Ellisons, Mussini, Amar, etc), the writing was on the wall for them that there playing time would be shrunk. They didn't come here to be back end of the rotation players, they came here to play. So, they defected and there was nothing anyone could do about it. So even as our roster was improving, there was certain to be leakage when serviceable guys could see their minutes slashed would depart.

If you want to blame that on Mullin, be my guest, but there are certain realities that were inevitable that make a complete rebuild extremely difficult.
 
[quote="mattc" post=288554]Round and round we go.[/quote]

Unbelievable right, every thread degenerates into the same argument.
 
Maybe we could use a staff change and maybe we will get one. Time will tell. What we do have that we didn't have a month ago is a first team all BE player back for another year and an unexpected former 5 star recruit who may well play for us this coming year. Things are looking up a lot and I am going to enjoy it and hold off on speculating what will happen if we don't win this year at least until the season is underway! No one knows better than staff that next year is a very important one for program. Looking forward to seeing an exciting, successful team in 2018-2019. Yes, I wish we had one more big, but you can't always get what you want and hopefully we will have what we need..
 
I totally agree that Mully inherited less than zero to compete in Div 1--fuhgeddaboud the BEC.
I agree that the roster instability was due to 'recruiting over' guys (Ellison, Sima, WIlliams, Freudenberg, Mussina (special case)) and 'special egos' like LoVett & Wilson.
To me, Mully is 30 - 36 (years 2 & 3) and would be at least .500 if LoVett had not defected.
And I give the Staff kudos for assembling the roster of recruits, ready-to-play transfers and sit-outs, and believe we have one hullva powerful team ready for action in 2018-19.
My one remaining worry and reservation is our staff.
Mitch has been absent off-season and i don't believe recruits actively when he is 'present'..
We need 1 more full time AC and recruiter.
I think that's a true statement.
I 'get' it's up to Mully (whom I fully support) and it is que sera sera, but that's my view.
Let's go Johnnies.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread.
 
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Two things remain true here.

1) We are willingly running a team without an Associate Head Coach and have no coaches on the roster who have been coaches at the D1 college level except Matt. Matt is solely a recruiter for us and a good one. We are actually running 2 coaches short with Richmond as I’m not sure what his deal is.

2) we were again last place in year 3.

I don’t know if it’s Mullin’s idea, or whose it is, but whomever decided we don’t need that extra staff member or two is an idiot. If we were at the top of the league, once could make the argument we don’t need it. That extra spot could be used for either and ace recruiter and/or an experienced coach, or both. If we didn’t need it, we wouldn’t have been in last place, bottom line. It’s idiotic and there are no programs running less 1-2 valuable coaching spots filled because well... it’s a terrible idea and deserves criticism.

The thread should not be about “if” we are going to have staff changes, rather about “when” we will hire the vacant spot of Associate Head Coach. After that’s done, we can address the ineffective and/or nonexistent coaches on staff if that is he case like many feel it is.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=288563][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=288556]Outstanding Post , Logen .[/quote]

What was "outstanding" about it?????????

You three keep repeating the same crap about Mullin every other post. I've cut and saved them into my notepad.
We ALL know the company line.
The title of the thread is STAFFING CHANGE!
If you don't want to discuss staff or any changes stay off the thread![/quote]

I kind of prefer your new and inventive ways to serve the same crap up. Kind of like a chef extraordinaire for leftover crap.

I'll try to jazz up my same old crap in the future. Unless of course you weren't referring to me as one of the three. Then I will just say i love all of your posts :)
 
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[quote="MCNPA" post=288566]Two things remain true here.

1) We are willingly running a team without an Associate Head Coach and have no coaches on the roster who have been coaches at the D1 college level except Matt. Matt is solely a recruiter for us and a good one. We are actually running 2 coaches short with Richmond as I’m not sure what his deal is.

2) we were again last place in year 3.

I don’t know if it’s Mullin’s idea, or whose it is, but whomever decided we don’t need that extra staff member or two is an idiot. If we were at the top of the league, once could make the argument we don’t need it. That extra spot could be used for either and ace recruiter and/or an experienced coach, or both. If we didn’t need it, we wouldn’t have been in last place, bottom line. It’s idiotic and there are no programs running less 1-2 valuable coaching spots filled because well... it’s a terrible idea and deserves criticism.

The thread should not be about “if” we are going to have staff changes, rather about “when” we will hire the vacant spot of Associate Head Coach. After that’s done, we can address the ineffective and/or nonexistent coaches on staff if that is he case like many feel it is.[/quote]

See what happens when you spend way more than you should have for an associate head coach in the first place? You have a big hole in your budget where you paid way too much for less than nothing.
 
Gotta laugh.
Can we agree—that except for the colder weather to loom—we can’t wait for the 2018-19 to begin?!?
Let’s go Johnnies.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=288569][quote="MCNPA" post=288566]Two things remain true here.

1) We are willingly running a team without an Associate Head Coach and have no coaches on the roster who have been coaches at the D1 college level except Matt. Matt is solely a recruiter for us and a good one. We are actually running 2 coaches short with Richmond as I’m not sure what his deal is.

2) we were again last place in year 3.

I don’t know if it’s Mullin’s idea, or whose it is, but whomever decided we don’t need that extra staff member or two is an idiot. If we were at the top of the league, once could make the argument we don’t need it. That extra spot could be used for either and ace recruiter and/or an experienced coach, or both. If we didn’t need it, we wouldn’t have been in last place, bottom line. It’s idiotic and there are no programs running less 1-2 valuable coaching spots filled because well... it’s a terrible idea and deserves criticism.

The thread should not be about “if” we are going to have staff changes, rather about “when” we will hire the vacant spot of Associate Head Coach. After that’s done, we can address the ineffective and/or nonexistent coaches on staff if that is he case like many feel it is.[/quote]

See what happens when you spend way more than you should have for an associate head coach in the first place? You have a big hole in your budget where you paid way too much for less than nothing.[/quote]

I have a hard time believing it’s money at this point honestly....
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=288571][quote="Beast of the East" post=288569][quote="MCNPA" post=288566]Two things remain true here.

1) We are willingly running a team without an Associate Head Coach and have no coaches on the roster who have been coaches at the D1 college level except Matt. Matt is solely a recruiter for us and a good one. We are actually running 2 coaches short with Richmond as I’m not sure what his deal is.

2) we were again last place in year 3.

I don’t know if it’s Mullin’s idea, or whose it is, but whomever decided we don’t need that extra staff member or two is an idiot. If we were at the top of the league, once could make the argument we don’t need it. That extra spot could be used for either and ace recruiter and/or an experienced coach, or both. If we didn’t need it, we wouldn’t have been in last place, bottom line. It’s idiotic and there are no programs running less 1-2 valuable coaching spots filled because well... it’s a terrible idea and deserves criticism.

The thread should not be about “if” we are going to have staff changes, rather about “when” we will hire the vacant spot of Associate Head Coach. After that’s done, we can address the ineffective and/or nonexistent coaches on staff if that is he case like many feel it is.[/quote]

See what happens when you spend way more than you should have for an associate head coach in the first place? You have a big hole in your budget where you paid way too much for less than nothing.[/quote]

I have a hard time believing it’s money at this point honestly....[/quote]

At the end of the day, just about everything is about money....
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=288566]Two things remain true here.

1) We are willingly running a team without an Associate Head Coach and have no coaches on the roster who have been coaches at the D1 college level except Matt. Matt is solely a recruiter for us and a good one. We are actually running 2 coaches short with Richmond as I’m not sure what his deal is.

2) we were again last place in year 3.

I don’t know if it’s Mullin’s idea, or whose it is, but whomever decided we don’t need that extra staff member or two is an idiot. If we were at the top of the league, once could make the argument we don’t need it. That extra spot could be used for either and ace recruiter and/or an experienced coach, or both. If we didn’t need it, we wouldn’t have been in last place, bottom line. It’s idiotic and there are no programs running less 1-2 valuable coaching spots filled because well... it’s a terrible idea and deserves criticism.

The thread should not be about “if” we are going to have staff changes, rather about “when” we will hire the vacant spot of Associate Head Coach. After that’s done, we can address the ineffective and/or nonexistent coaches on staff if that is he case like many feel it is.[/quote]

Although they seem like conflicting opinions, I will agree with both NC Johnnie and MCNPA. From a roster standpoint, things are indeed looking up. That said, I would like to see us seize the moment. The program often seems snake bit. So, ignoring obvious needs makes me me think.......THIS is why we never get over the hump.

Let's hope Mullin can check his ego and ensure we are doing absolutely everything possible to move the program forward.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=288574][quote="MCNPA" post=288566]Two things remain true here.

1) We are willingly running a team without an Associate Head Coach and have no coaches on the roster who have been coaches at the D1 college level except Matt. Matt is solely a recruiter for us and a good one. We are actually running 2 coaches short with Richmond as I’m not sure what his deal is.

2) we were again last place in year 3.

I don’t know if it’s Mullin’s idea, or whose it is, but whomever decided we don’t need that extra staff member or two is an idiot. If we were at the top of the league, once could make the argument we don’t need it. That extra spot could be used for either and ace recruiter and/or an experienced coach, or both. If we didn’t need it, we wouldn’t have been in last place, bottom line. It’s idiotic and there are no programs running less 1-2 valuable coaching spots filled because well... it’s a terrible idea and deserves criticism.

The thread should not be about “if” we are going to have staff changes, rather about “when” we will hire the vacant spot of Associate Head Coach. After that’s done, we can address the ineffective and/or nonexistent coaches on staff if that is he case like many feel it is.[/quote]

Although they seem like conflicting opinions, I will agree with both NC Johnnie and MCNPA. From a roster standpoint, things are indeed looking up. That said, I would like to see us seize the moment. The program often seems snake bit. So, ignoring obvious needs makes me me think.......THIS is why we never get over the hump.

Let's hope Mullin can check his ego and ensure we are doing absolutely everything possible to move the program forward.[/quote]

There should be no hoping here. Hire an Associate HC. Shouldn’t even be an option for us, just a given. Hire a damn Associate HC. Period. This shouldn’t be an option. A DOBO is an option. An Associate HC isn’t. I’d rather cut Ritchie and Matic and whomever and grab somebody with experience coaching at the college level and who is at least a decent recruiter. Use their salaries towards that. There’s really no excuse at this point not to do so
 
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