St. John's Big 12 rumor/Pitino & Prime

L J S A said:
Why on earth would Seton Hall ever have been an option?
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I agree. Seton Hall over Georgetown? And even though SJU has been miserable, it still holds more cachet than Seton Hall.

I do not believe this conference move is real (other than UConn’s interest).

But for the sake of discussion, let’s go with it. The private, basketball only schools would always get the short end of the stick competing against state schools with football.
 
kranmars said:
I agree. Seton Hall over Georgetown? And even though SJU has been miserable, it still holds more cachet than Seton Hall.

I do not believe this conference move is real (other than UConn’s interest).

But for the sake of discussion, let’s go with it. The private, basketball only schools would always get the short end of the stick competing against state schools with football.
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Seton Hall hasn't been rumored, that was a random person asking. Maybe MHVer3 is implying that Seton Hall (along with other Big East members) inquired but were never serious options? Or he's getting Seton Hall and St. John's mixed up.

I have zero doubt that the Big 12 has had discussions with UConn and a few basketball schools (public knowledge). As for whether those discussions lead anywhere and if St. John's is included are separate issues. I agree that we'd get the short end of the stick, but if UConn and Nova leave then we might not have an option. In that case would hope we're invited over Georgetown. I'd think St. John's is either the 3rd or 4th most valuable Big East team (1. UConn 2. Nova 3/4. St. John's/Georgetown).
 
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ADORAZ said:
Seton Hall hasn't been rumored, that was a random person asking. Maybe MHVer3 is implying that Seton Hall (along with other Big East members) inquired but were never serious options? Or he's getting Seton Hall and St. John's mixed up.

I have zero doubts that the Big 12 has had discussions with UConn and a few basketball schools (public knowledge). As for whether those discussions lead anywhere and if St. John's is included are separate issues. I agree that we'd get the short end of the stick, but if UConn and Nova leave then we might not have an option. In that case would just need to hope we're invited over Georgetown. I'd think St. John's is either the 3rd or 4th most valuable Big East team (1. UConn 2. Nova 3/4. St. John's/Georgetown).
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UConn will always be first because they have the enormous advantage of state funding.

In theory, they do not belong in the Big East. All other schools are Catholic (except Butler, but it is still a small, private university).

Villanova had better be careful if they want in the Big 12. This has been a challenging year for them post Wright. They can go sideways quickly as a member of the premier basketball conference in the country.
 
austour said:
B12 will hold off to see where Pitino goes. ;)
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Lol I've said it before but Pitino could potentially determine conference affiliation for St. John's or Georgetown. Have to imagine he'd make either team far more attractive for a TV package (keep in mind TV packages are made for shorter durations these days). Absolute nightmare would be Georgetown hiring him, returning to national relevance, and then getting an invite to the ACC or Big 12, leaving St. John's in a mid-major conference.
 
ADORAZ said:
Lol I've said it before but Pitino could potentially determine conference affiliation for St. John's or Georgetown. Have to imagine he'd make either team far more attractive for a TV package (keep in mind TV packages are made for shorter durations these days). Absolute nightmare would be Georgetown hiring him, returning to national relevance, and then getting an invite to the ACC or Big 12, leaving St. John's in a mid-major conference.
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IF and a huge IF that there is any smoke to this fire. You’re talking minimum 2 years before a move can ever be made. He might be entering the final 2-3 years of his stay at that point
 
Moose said:
IF and a huge IF that there is any smoke to this fire. You’re talking minimum 2 years before a move can ever be made. He might be entering the final 2-3 years of his stay at that point
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That's fair, but I think it's pretty likely he'd be there for at least half of the TV contract. The Big 12's recent TV contract (2022) is for 6 years. Pitino has said he wants to coach for another 5 or 6 years, and I'd think Big East teams could leave by 2024 with an outside shot at 2023. It's not like the ACC with massive GOR fees. Only UConn I believe is tied to major exit fees.
 
Working off the premise that this is legit, I hate this. I don't want to go anywhere, but you have to because someone else would gladly stab the conference in the back and take that spot, leaving us in the Atlantic 10 at best. Plus if we need to be poached, I want the ACC doing it, not the Big 12.
 


MHver3 @MHver3
BY recommended to B12 CEOs today that we expand by 4 in basketball and Olympic sports. Schools he has had the most serious discussions with are Gonzaga, Villanova, UConn and St John’s (a late addition after Seton Hall talks cooled).
10:00 PM · Mar 7, 2023

Marquette, Georgetown, and Creighton have also been in talks but certain factors relegated them lower.

Marquette has great support and a decent market but the allure of NYC market was too great to put them ahead of St John’s.

Georgetown would have been a shoe-in 20 years ago. Sadly their support has dwindled and WVU already has a partial claim to DC DMA.

Creighton was also a duplicate market for us but had a lot of other positives as well.

This is up to the CEOs now. BY has given his recommendation and backed it up with research from B12 media consultants. This would be HUGE for the next contract cycle when we decouple basketball.

UConn came back to the table after walking to propose a scheduling agreement with some B12 programs not to dissimilar from what ND does with ACC (just not at the same frequency and UConn is not too keen on going too far west to play).

Clarifying previous tweet. UConn proposed a football scheduling agreement since they will not be joining in FB if invited in other sports.



(As I've been saying, could be total BS but still felt worth sharing... we'll find out soon enough)
 
ADORAZ said:


MHver3 @MHver3
BY recommended to B12 CEOs today that we expand by 4 in basketball and Olympic sports. Schools he has had the most serious discussions with are Gonzaga, Villanova, UConn and St John’s (a late addition after Seton Hall talks cooled).
10:00 PM · Mar 7, 2023

Marquette, Georgetown, and Creighton have also been in talks but certain factors relegated them lower.

Marquette has great support and a decent market but the allure of NYC market was too great to put them ahead of St John’s.

Georgetown would have been a shoe-in 20 years ago. Sadly their support has dwindled and WVU already has a partial claim to DC DMA.

Creighton was also a duplicate market for us but had a lot of other positives as well.

This is up to the CEOs now. BY has given his recommendation and backed it up with research from B12 media consultants. This would be HUGE for the next contract cycle when we decouple basketball.

UConn came back to the table after walking to propose a scheduling agreement with some B12 programs not to dissimilar from what ND does with ACC (just not at the same frequency and UConn is not too keen on going too far west to play).

Clarifying previous tweet. UConn proposed a football scheduling agreement since they will not be joining in FB if invited in other sports.



(As I've been saying, could be total BS but still felt worth sharing... we'll find out soon enough)
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Well if there is fire to this smoke there's no way SJU declines an offer from the B12. Will be way more money and it's becoming increasingly likely that the three superconferences (SEC, B10, and now B12 if they scoop the remaining desirable P12 schools plus expand their footprint to the northeast) will eventually split off from the rest of the NCAA to hoard all the money for themselves. The rest of the schools will be left out in the cold.
 
MugCostanza said:
Well if there is fire to this smoke there's no way SJU declines an offer from the B12. Will be way more money and it's becoming increasingly likely that the three superconferences (SEC, B10, and now B12 if they scoop the remaining desirable P12 schools plus expand their footprint to the northeast) will eventually split off from the rest of the NCAA to hoard all the money for themselves. The rest of the schools will be left out in the cold.
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Yeah I don't buy it yet, his Seton Hall comment is suspicious because it's unlikely they would've been considered over St. John's in the first place, but his other comments make sense and if true St. John's would definitely need to accept. As you said, we're heading towards a P2 with Big 12 being the next largest conference. I'd like to remain in the Big East as long as others members don't leave (outside of UConn who may for football), but if Nova leaves then St. John's would need to go with them. Gonzaga, Kansas, Baylor, Nova, Texas Tech, WVU, Houston and UConn vs what'd be left over in the Big East? Not even close. That'd be around a dozen recent Final Fours vs 0 (last being Butler I think... pre-Big East).

Also some other interesting comments in that thread, such as the Big 12 money being significantly more since the next Big East contract will be a minimal bump. I guess that makes sense if Nova, UConn and St. John's are worth a lot more than the average Big East team.
 
Ideally, the B10 execs have the vision to beat the B12 & ACC to the punch and move to poach the 4 best brand names from the BE (Uconn, StJ, Gtown, Nova).

Ideal off-season scenario: two weeks from now Pitino becomes St. John's new coach.
Two months from now, credible rumblings about B10 poaching the big 4 from BE are verified.
 
Have any connected college basketball reporters even hinted at this? Would be weird that Norlander wouldn't be saying something, but this guy would be.

Still having trouble buying the Seton Hall thing, and does West Virginia actually have partial claim over the D.C. market? Seemed like a stretch.

I guess it's better to be on the inside looking out if this is somehow true, but really sucks for those left behind. I could see Georgetown latching on to the ACC for sure, but Providence and Seton Hall would be in a world of hurt. That would certainly make Cooley think long and hard about Georgetown I suppose.

On the bright side, if we are going to stab a bunch of Catholic schools in the back, pretending we are too honorable for Pitino is a bit much. And there's no way you can jump to the Big 12 with Langel as coach. We'd be a doormat for years without an electric name. What's the point of that?
 
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