Slice Sighting

[frank61]

SJU has always operated like a Ma and Pa outfit. They had a opening in an extremely important AD position, this is not new. We tried to fix it with glue and scotch tape. They took a VP and easily and cheaply slid him into the position he was no more qualified to run the athletic program of a high major program than I am. They changed him after the ineptitude was uncovered.
We throw money around like drunken sailors when we think it has to be done, but with a vital position like AD we try to fix it on the cheap. Do a legitimate search and hire an ace that will bring this kind of circus to an end.
Get serious and settle with Slice and cut our losses and and get on with building a solid athletic program from the bottom up.
If anyone outside of the St. john's family looked at our program closely, they would laugh at how goofy we really look. The time has come to either do things right or to stumble along like we have since Coach Carnesecca left. Or, we have one other alternative, and that is to drop our athletic program.

 

[redmannorth]

SJU has always operated like a Ma and Pa outfit. They had a opening in an extremely important AD position, this is not new. We tried to fix it with glue and scotch tape. They took a VP and easily and cheaply slid him into the position he was no more qualified to run the athletic program of a high major program than I am. They changed him after the ineptitude was uncovered.
We throw money around like drunken sailors when we think it has to be done, but with a vital position like AD we try to fix it on the cheap. Do a legitimate search and hire an ace that will bring this kind of circus to an end.
Get serious and settle with Slice and cut our losses and and get on with building a solid athletic program from the bottom up.
If anyone outside of the St. john's family looked at our program closely, they would laugh at how goofy we really look. The time has come to either do things right or to stumble along like we have since Coach Carnesecca left. Or, we have one other alternative, and that is to drop our athletic program.

Frank I agree with everything you said with the exception of you're third and final option being dropping athletics. Just no valid reason to do so. In spite of the schools ineptitude many programs are very successful and I believe that most posters are cautiously optimistic that our men's bball team has turned the corner and may be back on its way to prominence.
I say we strive for greatness, learn that cheap is very expensive and hopefully hire a properly qualified AD.

 

[beast of the east]

SJU has always operated like a Ma and Pa outfit. They had a opening in an extremely important AD position, this is not new. We tried to fix it with glue and scotch tape. They took a VP and easily and cheaply slid him into the position he was no more qualified to run the athletic program of a high major program than I am. They changed him after the ineptitude was uncovered.
We throw money around like drunken sailors when we think it has to be done, but with a vital position like AD we try to fix it on the cheap. Do a legitimate search and hire an ace that will bring this kind of circus to an end.
Get serious and settle with Slice and cut our losses and and get on with building a solid athletic program from the bottom up.
If anyone outside of the St. john's family looked at our program closely, they would laugh at how goofy we really look. The time has come to either do things right or to stumble along like we have since Coach Carnesecca left. Or, we have one other alternative, and that is to drop our athletic program.

Just think about this: With SJU on the hook for Lavin's 2015-2016 salary, and on the hook for Slice, they will go six straight seasons where they pay approximately $5 million out and get nothing in return. In the meantime, half the employees in the athletic department have fled for better paying jobs and Bobby's response was that they didnb't have the money to pay or replace them.

 

[logen]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

Unless I'm reading incorrectly I don't think anyone here is saying they were against hiring Slice and pretty much all wanted him

So if you "don't think anyone here is saying they were against hiring Slice" then why fall over each other to criticize those that did exactly that? We hired a nationally recognized top of the line recruiter away from Kentucky, that was supposed to come cheap and with no risks attached? SJU is not/was not Kentucky or even the BE Pitt and as it turned out it was a mistake but If he had brought in the couple of recruits he was supposedly wired into everyone would think it was money very well spent. Look, I obviously have a h-on over my opinion of the treatment of Mullin on this board and I understand most (or a lot of) people disagree with me; just the way it is and so be it. But you can't have it both ways, you can't support others taking a certain course of action and then criticize them when they do exactly that but it doesn't turn out right; it's called hypocrisy.

 

[mjmaherjr]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

Unless I'm reading incorrectly I don't think anyone here is saying they were against hiring Slice and pretty much all wanted him

So if you "don't think anyone here is saying they were against hiring Slice" then why fall over each other to criticize those that did exactly that? We hired a nationally recognized top of the line recruiter away from Kentucky, that was supposed to come cheap and with no risks attached? SJU is not/was not Kentucky or even the BE Pitt and as it turned out it was a mistake but If he had brought in the couple of recruits he was supposedly wired into everyone would think it was money very well spent. Look, I obviously have a h-on over my opinion of the treatment of Mullin on this board and I understand most (or a lot of) people disagree with me; just the way it is and so be it. But you can't have it both ways, you can't support others taking a certain course of action and then criticize them when they do exactly that but it doesn't turn out right; it's called hypocrisy.

No it's not because you can hire someone smartly and not throw everything including the kitchen sink into an ironclad contract for an assistant. How many ultra high tier assistants happen to have a problem in year 1 of a 6 year mega assistant contract in which he is getting paid something like 1 of the top 45 or 50 head coaches in the ncaa ?

It's called smart business

 

[beast of the east]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

Unless I'm reading incorrectly I don't think anyone here is saying they were against hiring Slice and pretty much all wanted him

So if you "don't think anyone here is saying they were against hiring Slice" then why fall over each other to criticize those that did exactly that? We hired a nationally recognized top of the line recruiter away from Kentucky, that was supposed to come cheap and with no risks attached? SJU is not/was not Kentucky or even the BE Pitt and as it turned out it was a mistake but If he had brought in the couple of recruits he was supposedly wired into everyone would think it was money very well spent. Look, I obviously have a h-on over my opinion of the treatment of Mullin on this board and I understand most (or a lot of) people disagree with me; just the way it is and so be it. But you can't have it both ways, you can't support others taking a certain course of action and then criticize them when they do exactly that but it doesn't turn out right; it's called hypocrisy.

Nobody in their right mind gives a guaranteed 6 year deal even in the event that the employee wants out. I'm sure that Mullin wanted him gone no matter what which complicated things. I'm sure Mullin advocated for this deal, and never dreamed he'd end up in a war with a guy he's known for 30 years, but all in all it's just a bad business deal. There probably aren't (m)any programs in the US that have a 6 year guaranteed contract for an assistant. If Mullin advocated for this, he had to be pretty damned certain that Slice was going to work out, and when things started going badly, should have resolved it quickly to avoid a $2.5 million mess.

 

[fuchsia]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

The 800 pound gorilla in the middle of your post is that some of us Met fans accepted that David Wright looked done or at least severely damaged before Murphy was allowed to walk, third is Murphy's best position, and Dilson Herrera was the best looking infield position player the Mets have seen since Wright/Reyes were coming up.

 

[Class of 72]

Ran into Slice at the bank.

[/quote]

 

[Class of 72]

Ran into St. John's senior accountant.

[/quote]

 

[Las Vegan]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

I may have missed it, but I don't think too many would have been happy with the hiring, if the terms of the agreement were known. Who gives another school's second assistant a six year, $400,000+ guaranteed deal?

 

[redmannorth]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

I may have missed it, but I don't think too many would have been happy with the hiring, if the terms of the agreement were known. Who gives another school's second assistant a six year, $400,000+ guaranteed deal?

Who told you he gets $400,000 per annum ?
The amount is considerably higher.

 

[beast of the east]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

I may have missed it, but I don't think too many would have been happy with the hiring, if the terms of the agreement were known. Who gives another school's second assistant a six year, $400,000+ guaranteed deal?

Who told you he gets $400,000 per annum ?
The amount is considerably higher.

Question: When Lavin has dinner with Slice, who picks up the tab?

Answer: St. John's.

 

[mjmaherjr]

There is a certain irony in that many of the same posters now pointing fingers were dancing in the streets when Rohressen was hired. It didn't work out and ties were properly cut expeditiously unlike the Jarvis and Lavin situations which were allowed to fester long after it was apparent the money paid was not commensurate with the effort given. Throw Roberts into that pot if you wish. The deal given Rohressen is absolutely horrible in hindsight but who on this board or the myriad of basketball "insiders" whose insights are offered regulary on this board thought it was anything but a grand slam when first announced? I certainly don't remember any criticism of the hire from anyone on this board or elsewhere. Mullin, AD, President, etc. certainly share in the blame but at the end of the day, it was a good move that just didn't work. A good analogy may be comparing it to almost any Met free agent signing; great on paper, disastrous in reality and hard to knock except in hindsight. I mean what Met fan today wouldn't have rather spent the Cespedes money on Murphy but no one, including me, a huge Murphy guy, would have said so last off-season.

I may have missed it, but I don't think too many would have been happy with the hiring, if the terms of the agreement were known. Who gives another school's second assistant a six year, $400,000+ guaranteed deal?

Who told you he gets $400,000 per annum ?
The amount is considerably higher.

closer to 50% higher as I'm sure you know

 

[L J S A]

I may have missed it, but I don't think too many would have been happy with the hiring, if the terms of the agreement were known. Who gives another school's second assistant a six year, $400,000+ guaranteed deal?

I'm guessing many would still be happy, considering no one expected one or more of the coaches to go crazy, stop working, and/or throw hissy fits in the first year. One of those three choices is probably accurate, possibly two, hopefully not all three.

 

[paultzman]

NM

 

[redfazed]

Did Slice decide to leave or is he being pushed out? If it is the latter and if Slice had a half-decent lawyer draw up his contract, then the only way he could be terminated "with cause" and not receive what he was entitled to for the next 6 years would basically be if he committed a felony or showed gross misconduct on the job.

 

[Class of 72]

Did Slice decide to leave or is he being pushed out? If it is the latter and if Slice had a half-decent lawyer draw up his contract, then the only way he could be terminated "with cause" and not receive what he was entitled to for the next 6 years would basically be if he committed a felony or showed gross misconduct on the job.

[/quote]

 

[austour]

Did Slice decide to leave or is he being pushed out? If it is the latter and if Slice had a half-decent lawyer draw up his contract, then the only way he could be terminated "with cause" and not receive what he was entitled to for the next 6 years would basically be if he committed a felony or showed gross misconduct on the job.

That's all been understood. I think the point that has many perplexed is the length and size of the guarantee, even for a first rate assistant, and the lack of a buyout clause.

 

[beast of the east]

Did Slice decide to leave or is he being pushed out? If it is the latter and if Slice had a half-decent lawyer draw up his contract, then the only way he could be terminated "with cause" and not receive what he was entitled to for the next 6 years would basically be if he committed a felony or showed gross misconduct on the job.

That's all been understood. I think the point that has many perplexed is the length and size of the guarantee, even for a first rate assistant, and the lack of a buyout clause.

Since $2.5 million dollars mistakes are not small ones, let's put the blame where it belongs:

1) Gempeshaw for firing the Athletic Director and then taking his time replacing him, now on his second interim AD in more than a year. An experienced AD would have said no way, no how, no dice and told Mullin to look elsewhere.

2) Mullin - He may have zero experience as a coach, with all due respect to those who feel that leading by example on the court somehow makes you a coach, but he did have years of experience as an NBA executive. However, this was a rookie mistake. In the NBA, you can burn tens of millions of dollars on a journeyman player who doesn't pan out because there is a huge cash flow to counter balance such mistakes. At St. John's if you want an extra napkin to douse your soggy french fries, that may be a problem. He knew both environments and should have known the difference.

3) Gempeshaw again. The school, the entire school, has to stop the idol worship of Chris Mullin the icon, and set expectations for him as coach and as part of a hierarchical infrastructure. Lavin refused to take marching orders from Monasch, instead going to Rob Wile for anything he needed. Mullin never went to Oliva (the interim), and presumably Bobby G. was engaged in idol worship to allow an assistant to be paid an exorbitant amount and guarantee it all.

4) Oliva. Are you effing kidding me? An AD would have nixed this. The Chief General Counsel would have nixed this. I love employees who treat company assets with the same care as their own, and no one in this process did that. I bristle to think that Slice will cost 2500 university donors their generous $1,000 donations. And we all know that there aren't too many donors who even contribute at that level.

I know that the BOT has some really bright and successful people who have persuaded the university to think bigger, and the overall results have been good. But in this case, by allowing three key individuals to make and inept decision (guaranteed really big contract), thinking big without having a great infrastructure in place cost them big time.

 

[Class of 72]

Did Slice decide to leave or is he being pushed out? If it is the latter and if Slice had a half-decent lawyer draw up his contract, then the only way he could be terminated "with cause" and not receive what he was entitled to for the next 6 years would basically be if he committed a felony or showed gross misconduct on the job.

That's all been understood. I think the point that has many perplexed is the length and size of the guarantee, even for a first rate assistant, and the lack of a buyout clause.

It has been rumored (by me) that Slice has been playing the same song over and over and over again: