Slice Sighting

[Class of 72]

Yeah, only Lavin's wife is fair game.

She wasn't fair game either nor was Norm's.

You must have been on a six year vacation during Steve Lavin's tenure! Mary Ann started her St. John's career on the front page of the Daily News. Connie Jarvis was "deeply" involved in everything Jar head did and you are underestimating this situation.

What's your point? I have been a poster here since the original site. A business arrangement didn't work out. It happens but as usual when things don't go our way we get the "we stopped recruiting him", "we didn't need him anyway" "he really isn't that good", "so and so hates us", "it's his wife's/girlfriend's fault","the other team cheated", "he used us", etc.

How about Barry's role didn't turn out as he envisioned and was not happy about it . How about maybe Chris wasn't happy about a few things. Chris has it set-up the way he wants and the parties decided to part ways. As with any contract, negotiations are being done for the separation.

When he was hired everyone thought it was a great move and no one complained about the Contract. To lure him from one of the top programs in the country with a virtual unlimited budget you were going to have to pay if not overpay. It just didn't work out. It happens.

His replacement is already here and we are recruiting with the same number of people on the road as everyone else since the NCAA is allowing the DOB to recruit as he has the required certification and we are short one coach.

Relax and have a slice! You are correct. Everyone was happy with the Slice hiring. You are wrong. Most were not happy with the terms of the contract. One thing is universally true: Slice had a better contract than Lou Carnesecca ever did and produced very little as a result. Every major target assigned to him was a bust or see ya later. It is now 6 months since his estrangement, 15 months since we made believe we were looking for an AD and millions of dollars in debt to former coaches. Yeah, sh*t happens. This is just a continuation of the same sh*t, different day.
Finally, too bad that DOB wasn't Mitch Richmond because I for one, forgot who the hell he is and what has Mitch been up to lately?

 

[beast of the east]

IMHO even if things didn't work out, the original hiring of Slice was a great move. A coup. If a new head coach's salary was say $300k more we wouldn't have thought twice about it. Instead that extra $300k to a recognizable name that most considered one of the very best and from the marque program in recruiting the last several years, It helped make the statement that the new regime was serious and intent upon big time success. In a similar way that those that knew Lavin lacked certain skills bringing in certain assistants seemed to shore up areas where he was lacking and made the hire more palatable.
The FACT that we've had a superior recruiter during the same time who has kicked butt right out of the gate makes it all a net gain and all things considered WGAC about Slice now? Time to move on. Good move by Mullin to hire him. Good move to drop him when he wasn't going by Mullin's playbook despite any personal history.

I think you are confusing St. John's Athletic budget with the NY Knicks. Are you aware that the athletic department runs on a deficit, even after fundraising? A $3 million commitment for a guy who works one year is by no means a net gain just because we had a successful year recruiting. Sorry, Paul, you cannot spin this into a net gain, because the business reality doesn't prove it out.

 

[SJU85]

Yeah, only Lavin's wife is fair game.

She wasn't fair game either nor was Norm's.

You must have been on a six year vacation during Steve Lavin's tenure! Mary Ann started her St. John's career on the front page of the Daily News. Connie Jarvis was "deeply" involved in everything Jar head did and you are underestimating this situation.

What's your point? I have been a poster here since the original site. A business arrangement didn't work out. It happens but as usual when things don't go our way we get the "we stopped recruiting him", "we didn't need him anyway" "he really isn't that good", "so and so hates us", "it's his wife's/girlfriend's fault","the other team cheated", "he used us", etc.

How about Barry's role didn't turn out as he envisioned and was not happy about it . How about maybe Chris wasn't happy about a few things. Chris has it set-up the way he wants and the parties decided to part ways. As with any contract, negotiations are being done for the separation.

When he was hired everyone thought it was a great move and no one complained about the Contract. To lure him from one of the top programs in the country with a virtual unlimited budget you were going to have to pay if not overpay. It just didn't work out. It happens.

His replacement is already here and we are recruiting with the same number of people on the road as everyone else since the NCAA is allowing the DOB to recruit as he has the required certification and we are short one coach.

Relax and have a slice! You are correct. Everyone was happy with the Slice hiring. You are wrong. Most were not happy with the terms of the contract. One thing is universally true: Slice had a better contract than Lou Carnesecca ever did and produced very little as a result. Every major target assigned to him was a bust or see ya later. It is now 6 months since his estrangement, 15 months since we made believe we were looking for an AD and millions of dollars in debt to former coaches. Yeah, sh*t happens. This is just a continuation of the same sh*t, different day.
Finally, too bad that DOB wasn't Mitch Richmond because I for one, forgot who the hell he is and what has Mitch been up to lately?

I don't recall any objections to the contract until the arrangement didn't work out. On the contrary, I heard it was great that resources were still being put towards assembling a staff including a top notch recruiter like Slice.

As far what the rest of the Staff is doing, I am pretty confidant they are all doing their respective jobs.

 

[beast of the east]

Yeah, only Lavin's wife is fair game.

She wasn't fair game either nor was Norm's.

You must have been on a six year vacation during Steve Lavin's tenure! Mary Ann started her St. John's career on the front page of the Daily News. Connie Jarvis was "deeply" involved in everything Jar head did and you are underestimating this situation.

What's your point? I have been a poster here since the original site. A business arrangement didn't work out. It happens but as usual when things don't go our way we get the "we stopped recruiting him", "we didn't need him anyway" "he really isn't that good", "so and so hates us", "it's his wife's/girlfriend's fault","the other team cheated", "he used us", etc.

How about Barry's role didn't turn out as he envisioned and was not happy about it . How about maybe Chris wasn't happy about a few things. Chris has it set-up the way he wants and the parties decided to part ways. As with any contract, negotiations are being done for the separation.

When he was hired everyone thought it was a great move and no one complained about the Contract. To lure him from one of the top programs in the country with a virtual unlimited budget you were going to have to pay if not overpay. It just didn't work out. It happens.

His replacement is already here and we are recruiting with the same number of people on the road as everyone else since the NCAA is allowing the DOB to recruit as he has the required certification and we are short one coach.

Relax and have a slice! You are correct. Everyone was happy with the Slice hiring. You are wrong. Most were not happy with the terms of the contract. One thing is universally true: Slice had a better contract than Lou Carnesecca ever did and produced very little as a result. Every major target assigned to him was a bust or see ya later. It is now 6 months since his estrangement, 15 months since we made believe we were looking for an AD and millions of dollars in debt to former coaches. Yeah, sh*t happens. This is just a continuation of the same sh*t, different day.
Finally, too bad that DOB wasn't Mitch Richmond because I for one, forgot who the hell he is and what has Mitch been up to lately?

I heard once heard that Lou worked under the premise that he would never make more than the university president. I think his salary was around the $100K mark, possibly $125K but I also remember that at one point the university's antiquated payroll system couldn't handle anything more than $99,999. I also think he never negotiated for more.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Is Lavins contract over yet ?

 

[austour]

Yeah, only Lavin's wife is fair game.

She wasn't fair game either nor was Norm's.

You must have been on a six year vacation during Steve Lavin's tenure! Mary Ann started her St. John's career on the front page of the Daily News. Connie Jarvis was "deeply" involved in everything Jar head did and you are underestimating this situation.

What's your point? I have been a poster here since the original site. A business arrangement didn't work out. It happens but as usual when things don't go our way we get the "we stopped recruiting him", "we didn't need him anyway" "he really isn't that good", "so and so hates us", "it's his wife's/girlfriend's fault","the other team cheated", "he used us", etc.

How about Barry's role didn't turn out as he envisioned and was not happy about it . How about maybe Chris wasn't happy about a few things. Chris has it set-up the way he wants and the parties decided to part ways. As with any contract, negotiations are being done for the separation.

When he was hired everyone thought it was a great move and no one complained about the Contract. To lure him from one of the top programs in the country with a virtual unlimited budget you were going to have to pay if not overpay. It just didn't work out. It happens.

His replacement is already here and we are recruiting with the same number of people on the road as everyone else since the NCAA is allowing the DOB to recruit as he has the required certification and we are short one coach.

Relax and have a slice! You are correct. Everyone was happy with the Slice hiring. You are wrong. Most were not happy with the terms of the contract. One thing is universally true: Slice had a better contract than Lou Carnesecca ever did and produced very little as a result. Every major target assigned to him was a bust or see ya later. It is now 6 months since his estrangement, 15 months since we made believe we were looking for an AD and millions of dollars in debt to former coaches. Yeah, sh*t happens. This is just a continuation of the same sh*t, different day.
Finally, too bad that DOB wasn't Mitch Richmond because I for one, forgot who the hell he is and what has Mitch been up to lately?

I don't recall any objections to the contract until the arrangement didn't work out. On the contrary, I heard it was great that resources were still being put towards assembling a staff including a top notch recruiter like Slice.

As far what the rest of the Staff is doing, I am pretty confidant they are all doing their respective jobs.

I don't recall a anyone knowing how bad the contract terms were until the arrangement didn't work out. Signing Slice was a plus. Losing Slice was a minus but probably not as big as the plus. Losing $3million and showing the world what a D2 athletic department the school has was the biggest negative factor, not sure what affect that really has, especially for someone like me who doesn't care about anything but the hoops team, but that's how I see it.

 

[Red.Fans]

I think you are confusing St. John's Athletic budget with the NY Knicks. Are you aware that the athletic department runs on a deficit, even after fundraising? A $3 million commitment for a guy who works one year is by no means a net gain just because we had a successful year recruiting. Sorry, Paul, you cannot spin this into a net gain, because the business reality doesn't prove it out.

I don't spin anything. In my opinion or as I prefaced my post, (I)n (M)y (H)umble (O)pinion, - my opinion it is a net gain and seems like solid reasoning to me but I'm getting old and confused but occasionally I'll post an opinion...

My opinion also is that making a net profit is NOT the business reality of college athletics. With only a very few exceptions, every Athletic Dept runs at a deficit and this is how it has been for decades yet college athletics are bigger than ever and most schools have increased their budgets consistently and significantly. Seems like a different business reality to me but that is just my humble opinion. In retail terms, I'd call Slice a loss leader. On the bottom line we lost money. In the bigger picture and for the reasons stated, it was a good move - even on the bottom line over time but you have to factor in nuanced thinking - like how does successful PR factor into the bottom line. If he'd actually produced it would have been even better but in hindsight I'd still have wanted him on the original Team Mullin.

 

[Class of 72]

I think you are confusing St. John's Athletic budget with the NY Knicks. Are you aware that the athletic department runs on a deficit, even after fundraising? A $3 million commitment for a guy who works one year is by no means a net gain just because we had a successful year recruiting. Sorry, Paul, you cannot spin this into a net gain, because the business reality doesn't prove it out.

I don't spin anything. In my opinion or as I prefaced my post, (I)n (M)y (H)umble (O)pinion, - my opinion it is a net gain and seems like solid reasoning to me but I'm getting old and confused but occasionally I'll post an opinion...

My opinion also is that making a net profit is NOT the business reality of college athletics. With only a very few exceptions, every Athletic Dept runs at a deficit and this is how it has been for decades yet college athletics are bigger than ever and most schools have increased their budgets consistently and significantly. Seems like a different business reality to me but that is just my humble opinion. In retail terms, I'd call Slice a loss leader. On the bottom line we lost money. In the bigger picture and for the reasons stated, it was a good move - even on the bottom line over time but you have to factor in nuanced thinking - like how does successful PR factor into the bottom line. If he'd actually produced it would have been even better but in hindsight I'd still have wanted him on the original Team Mullin.

I tend to agree in that much of what the individual sports teams produce is positive public relations, especially when successful. Unfortunately, the past few years the end product has been poor PR. In this Slice situation I think we are all experiencing some Post Purchase Cognitive Dissonance which is the state of unease which exists in the customer’s mind after buying a product or service. The initial hire was seen by all as great. I loved the hire. However, by December many were questioning the Mullin/Slice relationship. Never was an associate "head coach" so disengaged from game time interactions. Quite often the huddle did not even include the head coach or the associate HC but rather a young assistant with a white board. Slice was the only coach with any real college basketball experience with Matt always having been a recruiting specialist. I think some here saw this coming. The PPCD that we are experiencing now is the fact that nothing really positive came out of the Slice hiring and the next time the Athletic Dept wants to raise ticket prices make no mistake that some of that money will go to pay for this latest cluster fck at alma mater.

 

[beast of the east]

I think you are confusing St. John's Athletic budget with the NY Knicks. Are you aware that the athletic department runs on a deficit, even after fundraising? A $3 million commitment for a guy who works one year is by no means a net gain just because we had a successful year recruiting. Sorry, Paul, you cannot spin this into a net gain, because the business reality doesn't prove it out.

I don't spin anything. In my opinion or as I prefaced my post, (I)n (M)y (H)umble (O)pinion, - my opinion it is a net gain and seems like solid reasoning to me but I'm getting old and confused but occasionally I'll post an opinion...

My opinion also is that making a net profit is NOT the business reality of college athletics. With only a very few exceptions, every Athletic Dept runs at a deficit and this is how it has been for decades yet college athletics are bigger than ever and most schools have increased their budgets consistently and significantly. Seems like a different business reality to me but that is just my humble opinion. In retail terms, I'd call Slice a loss leader. On the bottom line we lost money. In the bigger picture and for the reasons stated, it was a good move - even on the bottom line over time but you have to factor in nuanced thinking - like how does successful PR factor into the bottom line. If he'd actually produced it would have been even better but in hindsight I'd still have wanted him on the original Team Mullin.

"But for athletic departments in the “Power Five” conferences — which includes 48 public universities that complied with records requests — a failure to profit is not inevitable, but the result of an athletic director’s decision to outspend income."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/sports/wp/2015/11/23/running-up-the-bills/

If you look at the top revenue producing programs, on top of ticket sales, media rights and apparel, all are bolstered by a heavy dosing of donations. St. John's athletic giving, like the rest of SJU donations, is tiny. A $3 million investment in Slice, on top of eating $2 million in Lavin money, is not offset by anything.

http://www.espn.com/ncaa/revenue

There is no question however, that a college is branded by successful athletic programs. UCONN's academic profile zoomed along with their success on the court. Over 40 years or so, the same is true of Duke. SJUs has slipped over the same period, perhaps the decline of SJU bball being a contributing factor. While you cannot discount the need to make large investments in athletics to attain winning programs, a school like SJU literally cannot afford to make the mistakes of eating Lavin and Slice bad investments - there is simply not enough donor cushion to offset these losses.

For the record, though, a loss leader is an investment that is designed to deliberately lose money to generate positive interest. Traditionally, that translated to selling a product below costs to generate sales of related products or brand awareness before prices are raised - deliberate loss leading a gain. I cannot fathom how Slice generated success that Matt and Mullin have had, or enhanced the brand awareness of SJU bball. He was a good idea gone bad, and it went rotten so early without remediation that everyone involved has to be questioned.

 

[paultzman]

Korean War negotiations went faster;


Zach Braziller – Verified account ‏@NYPost_Brazille

Also on #sjubb, told Mitch Richmond still very likely to be third assistant, but no resolution yet.
10:41 AM - 21 Aug 2016 from Whippany, NJ

 

[RedStormNC]

Assuming Richmond fills the asst coach spot as expected, think he gets a salary bump ?

I just hope they take care of Matt A before he looks to follow the $ for his recruiting prowess.

 

[Class of 72]

Korean War negotiations went faster;


Zach Braziller – Verified account ‏@NYPost_Brazille

Also on #sjubb, told Mitch Richmond still very likely to be third assistant, but no resolution yet.
10:41 AM - 21 Aug 2016 from Whippany, NJ

St. John's can negotiate until the cows come home to Hillcrest but Slice will get exactly what he wants in the end. Sad to watch the video attached and to think of what could have been. I'm hoping Mullin has also learned his lesson and will act more "presidential" this season than he appeared in this clip and many games.

[/quote]

 

[Happy]

Assuming Richmond fills the asst coach spot as expected, think he gets a salary bump ?

I just hope they take care of Matt A before he looks to follow the $ for his recruiting prowess.

Not one member of this staff deserves an extra dime imo until a successful on court product is delivered.

 

[Knight]

At this point, I would let him coach here another year. :evil:

 

[hnkcolumbia]

If he won't be reasonable, lock him in a room watching tape and writing scouting reports.....eight hours a day five or six days a week. He'll be reasonable.

 

[prjohnnies]

Side note - Recently sat next to Slice on a long flight. Was a real nice guy in person and very interested that I was a SJU fan and a big college hoops fan in general. Obviously I did not bring up the current situation. He had a lot of good things to say about our players, particularly Lovett and Yawke. Also said he was responsible for scheduling the Binghamton game, as he has a relationship with Tommy Dempsey. Talked a bunch about the recruiting game, etc.

 

[Class of 72]

Assuming Richmond fills the asst coach spot as expected, think he gets a salary bump ?

I just hope they take care of Matt A before he looks to follow the $ for his recruiting prowess.

Not one member of this staff deserves an extra dime imo until a successful on court product is delivered.

Delivery has been confirmed. Product needs assembly. Last year the Geek Squad of Matt and Greg did their best. This year the master technicians Mullin and Richmond need to show everyone they have the high technical ability to make the product work every game. Redmen.com Prime members will receive full refunds should the product fail.

 

[Andrew]

Side note - Recently sat next to Slice on a long flight. Was a real nice guy in person and very interested that I was a SJU fan and a big college hoops fan in general. Obviously I did not bring up the current situation. He had a lot of good things to say about our players, particularly Lovett and Yawke. Also said he was responsible for scheduling the Binghamton game, as he has a relationship with Tommy Dempsey. Talked a bunch about the recruiting game, etc.

Would live to see Slice replace Dempsey.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Side note - Recently sat next to Slice on a long flight. Was a real nice guy in person and very interested that I was a SJU fan and a big college hoops fan in general. Obviously I did not bring up the current situation. He had a lot of good things to say about our players, particularly Lovett and Yawke. Also said he was responsible for scheduling the Binghamton game, as he has a relationship with Tommy Dempsey. Talked a bunch about the recruiting game, etc.

1st class ?

 

[Knight]

Side note - Recently sat next to Slice on a long flight. Was a real nice guy in person and very interested that I was a SJU fan and a big college hoops fan in general. Obviously I did not bring up the current situation. He had a lot of good things to say about our players, particularly Lovett and Yawke. Also said he was responsible for scheduling the Binghamton game, as he has a relationship with Tommy Dempsey. Talked a bunch about the recruiting game, etc.

1st class ?

Can he afford it?