Shamorie Ponds

I can only go back to 1980 for top players. I am terrible at lists but here are some players to contemplate. Ponds is definitely one of the best.

Mullin
Sealy
Ponds
Artest
Berry
Mark Jackson
Harrison
Lopez
Jayson Williams
Bill Wennington
Erick Barkley
Maurice Hatten
Lavor Postell
Zendon Hamilton
DJ Kennedy
Shawnelle Scott
David Russell
Robert Werdann
Jakarr Sampson
Shelton Jones

Fun to watch
Wille Glass
Pointer
Obekpa
Glover
Justin Simon

One year wonders
Mo Harkless
Omar Cook
 
[quote="Redman#13" post=315612][quote="Beast of the East" post=315610][quote="Redman#13" post=315605]Where do people think Ponds lands in the list of all time sju greats?
I think TOP 3[/quote]

I don't go back that far in terms of all time, but I would say best at least since Mark Jackson, and maybe a better collegiate than Jackson.

The stuff he is doing this year, no one can touch in recent history - not D'Angelo, no one.[/quote]

Agreed.

1) Mullin
2) Artest
3) Ponds
I started following the team when Felipe got here, i was about 9[/quote]

Hard to compare All Time greats in college basketball for two reasons in my opinion.
[ol]
[li] 3pt line[/li]
[li] 4 year players vs 1 and 2 year players[/li]
[/ol]

And when you include someone like Artest who I have always been a fan of but in terms of what he did at St. John's I would not lump it into all time greats, that muddies it.

That said, I'd wait until the rest of this season plays out. After last season I would said not even close to top 3. Top 3 scorers certainly but not top 3 all time greats. The way this season is going however, Ponds has become way more efficient and his defense is a lot better. Racking up 5 assist 0 turnover games to go with his scoring and He's a complete player.
 
The late Tony Jackson who did not betray himself or St. John's and who may have been intentionally sacrificed.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=315624]The late Tony Jackson who did not betray himself or St. John's and who may have been intentionally sacrificed.[/quote]

Wasn't Tony Jackson 6'7 or so, and a forward?
I don't think of Artest as a guard.

Ponds better than Hatten hands down.
Boo HArvey was slick but not this good.

Carter was very skilled, but not the offensive juggernaut Ponds has been this season.

This is only half of one season. Agree with Paul let's see how he finishes the season.
 
Tony Jackson . as I remember was 6'4 but jump like he was 7'0 . He was not the tallest on the team but would center jump at the beginning of the game and win most of them even against much bigger players.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=315623][quote="Redman#13" post=315612][quote="Beast of the East" post=315610][quote="Redman#13" post=315605]Where do people think Ponds lands in the list of all time sju greats?
I think TOP 3[/quote]

I don't go back that far in terms of all time, but I would say best at least since Mark Jackson, and maybe a better collegiate than Jackson.

The stuff he is doing this year, no one can touch in recent history - not D'Angelo, no one.[/quote]

Agreed.

1) Mullin
2) Artest
3) Ponds
I started following the team when Felipe got here, i was about 9[/quote]

Hard to compare All Time greats in college basketball for two reasons in my opinion.
[ol]
[li] 3pt line[/li]
[li] 4 year players vs 1 and 2 year players[/li]
[/ol]

And when you include someone like Artest who I have always been a fan of but in terms of what he did at St. John's I would not lump it into all time greats, that muddies it.

That said, I'd wait until the rest of this season plays out. After last season I would said not even close to top 3. Top 3 scorers certainly but not top 3 all time greats. The way this season is going however, Ponds has become way more efficient and his defense is a lot better. Racking up 5 assist 0 turnover games to go with his scoring and He's a complete player.[/quote]

Paul, concerning Artest are you speaking of his stats? He was the main reason team made elite 8 no?
 
Agree. Way in top if he tales us to a final 4 we could talk about that, Right now I say somewhere in the top 10
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=315610][quote="Redman#13" post=315605]Where do people think Ponds lands in the list of all time sju greats?
I think TOP 3[/quote]

I don't go back that far in terms of all time, but I would say best at least since Mark Jackson, and maybe a better collegiate than Jackson.

The stuff he is doing this year, no one can touch in recent history - not D'Angelo, no one.[/quote]

Of the players I've seen I would start with
Chris Mullin, Sonny Dove, then Malik Sealy.
The others in no particular order would be Walter Berry, Mark Jackson, Shamorie Ponds, D'Angelo Harrison, Felipe Lopez, Ron Artest and Jayson Williams.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=315674][quote="Beast of the East" post=315610][quote="Redman#13" post=315605]Where do people think Ponds lands in the list of all time sju greats?
I think TOP 3[/quote]

I don't go back that far in terms of all time, but I would say best at least since Mark Jackson, and maybe a better collegiate than Jackson.

The stuff he is doing this year, no one can touch in recent history - not D'Angelo, no one.[/quote]

Of the players I've seen I would start with
Chris Mullin, Sonny Dove, then Malik Sealy.
The others in no particular order would be Walter Berry, Mark Jackson, Shamorie Ponds, D'Angelo Harrison, Felipe Lopez, Ron Artest and Jayson Williams.[/quote]

Excuse me, for some reason I was thinking all time great guards, not all time great players. I would say clearly, post Mark JAckson, Ponds is the best guard. I'd have to give a lot more thought as to where he fits among all players.
 
My memories only go back to Shawnelle Scott, but my list is:

(1) Ponds
(2) Artest
(3) Some Space
(4) Postell
(5) Barkley
(6) More Space
(7) Hatten
 
I got really nervous when Mintz got in Ponds' face and literally yelled "Ponds back up! Ponds no!" and then he shoves him haha. Maybe he realized the refs already saw Mintz press his head on his and they would offset if he gave a light shove...thankfully they did. Love the kid, he just needs to know how important he is to the team and what the situation is. Glad he gets to rest up for a few days.
 
I've watched the team since the year Sonny Dove was a soph playing with the McIntyre brothers. I'd have to agree with Class of 72 that in that time frame Mullin, Dove & Sealy stand out. As good as Artest & Berry were, hard to rank two year guys at the same level as guys who played for us for 3 or 4 years.
I also agree it's premature to rank Shamorie as his body of work is not complete yet.
 
Shamorie Ponds is already a St John’s Legend . Whatever he does rest of the Season only adds to his Status . It’s a pity , in a way, we won’t get to see 4 full years from him . But, he wants to move to the next level and will ... Mark Jackson was a great 4 Year Player for us and I would say Ponds is the best Guard we have had since Mark .. it’s not even close . I admire the Seasons that Howard is having at Marquette and Powell at Seton Hall but, to me , the Player of the Year right now , is Ponds . He does it all and can do it all well . Howard is not a Playmaker , neither is Powell . They are Scorers but, Ponds makes his teammates better , has high Assist numbers , Steal Numbers and even rebounds . Plus , Score as much as needed . I fear the Media has fallen in love with Howard and his 50 point outbursts and they are spectacular but, head to head with Ponds , he is second best .
 
Have to agree that Shamorie is an all time great. He may not be quite the true PG that Mark, Erick and Omar were, nor the pure shooter that Chris was, nor quite have the instincts for steals that Marcus had, But he does all those things superbly. Only difference is Erick and Chris and Malik and Metta led their teams out of the 2nd round of the dance. Only St Johns teams to do so. Let's hope Shamorie can get them there and do the same. FWIW Malik's senior year, Walter's Senior Year and Chris' senior year are my favorite STJ performances of all time. Marcus was the most dynamic player I've ever seen in the uniform, too bad the teams around him stunk. For now all those four would be above Shamorie in my book but it's just one man's opinion.

PS I just about get back to 1980. Knew about Wayne McKoy as a kid from Newsday but started following hoops generally and a bit with STJ when David Russell enrolled (obviously a LI kid). Not as old as some of you old farts but older than many of those young dudes.
 
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The difference between an all time list and Ponds is that everyone on the list played in the post season, and played for winning teams. Ponds has yet to achieve either. I have watched over 50 years of Johnnie basketball, and couldn't say for certain where he ranks, because winning has to count for something. This will likely be Ponds' last season. He is having an excellent year, which may end up being outstanding. If this team doesn't make the dance, his overall place in SJU history has to suffer. The greatest final seasons in team history, which may be really a separate topic, would include 4 players since the 70s that Ponds should set as benchmarks are Billy Schaeffer, Mark Jackson, Mullin and Berry. Schaeffer did not have a great supporting cast, and yet the team had a good season and a great run to win the Holiday Festival. Plus he shot over 60% from the field despite facing defenses that knew he was the go to guy. That's amazing. As a senior, Jackson averaged over 6 assists, shot 50% from the field, 42% from 3, and high 70s from the line. He scored 19 a game because he had to, And he played 39.5 minutes a game. As a junior, he averaged 9 assists per game, which he could have as a senior but needed to score more without Berry. We all know what Mullin did. Then there's the greats like Dove and Tony Jackson from the 60s, and Mel Davis from the 70s, and George Johnson, also a great player.

So in fairness, easiest thing to do is rank him against past guards, going back to the 70s. I rank him ahead of Hatten and Barkley, but behind Mark Jackson. Obviously behind Mullin, too. So third best guard since the 70s. So he has that going for him, which is nice.
 
Sealy's senior season he averaged over 22 points, close to 8 rebounds and was the undisputed leader on an Elite Eight team that beat 9 ranked teams, with Billy Singleton (loved him but he's no Ron Artest) at PF and Chucky at SG. An all time Redmen season if ever there was one.

PS I don't think they played in the holiday festival that year so one demerit to Malik. ;)
 
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[quote="Redman#13" post=315669]
Paul, concerning Artest are you speaking of his stats? He was the main reason team made elite 8 no?[/quote]

Artest was awesome but as I said, it hard to compare him as an all time great compared to guys like Mullin and Sealy who were 4 year players and all the guys that went before that I never saw. Most talent, most NBA potential etc. Those are all different questions.
 
[quote="austour" post=315715]Sealy's senior season he averaged over 22 points, close to 8 rebounds and was the undisputed leader on an Elite Eight team that beat 9 ranked teams, with Billy Singleton (loved him but he's no Ron Artest) at PF and Chucky at SG. An all time Redmen season if ever there was one.

PS I don't think they played in the holiday festival that year so one demerit to Malik. ;)[/quote]

The Holiday Festival, as I'm sure you remember, used to be a big deal. You had to win 4 games to get the title, and St. John's beat 3 major programs, including a ranked Michigan team and a top 10 South Carolina team with Kevin Joyce and I think Brian Winters also. Then they beat a top 5 Davidson team on the road a week later. So no demerit for the great Malik Sealy, but a plus 100 for what Schaeffer did, who was a one man wrecking ball that year. And he hit the game winning buzzer beater at Davidson when they were a national power.
 
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Hope Ponds finishes strongly, huge #'s, more late game heroics, takes us to tourney (ideally at least one W), gets drafted and makes huge $$ etc. If leaves early, I also hope he finds time to finish his degree in offseason.

Love nothing more than to see him get name hung on a banner & bobblehead down the road but should be hung for graduates.
 
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I wish I could remember Sealy. I definitely watched games he was in on channel 9, but I just can't remember. Terry Dehere of SH I remember.
 
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