Shamorie Ponds

[quote="ron " post=315265][quote="we are sju" post=315264][quote="Moose" post=315261][quote="we are sju" post=315248][quote="Moose" post=315238][quote="Beast of the East" post=315236][quote="Moose" post=315229][quote="Boo Harvey" post=315224]I'm not looking at his stats, but from watching Heron this year, he's been a turnover machine. He recklessly bulls his way to the basket like Ahmed did last year and frequently turns it over. I didn't watch him at Auburn, but I can't believe this is a new development. It's one thing for a good shooter to go cold, but it's another thing for a stud athlete to suddenly forget how to drive the ball to the hoop and make plays.[/quote]

Maybe you should look at his stats.
2.4, 2.1, 2.5
Those are his TPG over the 3 years.

The Big East is a physical conference. More so than SEC. Less FT's per game is likely him not getting calls he use to get in SEC. Bottom line is he's the same player he was in 2 years at Auburn. He had 2 regular games to start BE and 3 bad since.[/quote]

Ehh, he's from Bridgeport, so I'm sure he's game tough enough and used to contact.

Although.... early in my career I worked in a hospital uptown. Some of the older black guys knew Jabbar (Alcindor) from the schoolyard games, and they said he hated to get hit, and called fouls all game, even at 7 plus feet tall against smaller competition. As a result he had little street cred in Harlem. They would go on and on about Dwayne Washington, though, who they called by his street name, Pac-Man instead of Pearl. Great nickname because he could zip around the court and change direction completely on the fly, devouring opponents.

They also loved Chris Mullin, who they called "Little Larry Bird"[/quote]

He complains a lot when fouled or not fouled. The whole team does. Then again they must pick it up from the HC.[/quote]

Louie complained, Fran complained and so did Jarvis.
Almost all successful college coaches complain to refs
Norm didn't complain about refs[/quote]

I bet all those coaches you mentioned knew the officials by name.[/quote]

Coach K scolds refs like they are his children. Never gets a T and gets every call ever made.[/quote]

That's what success will do for you.[/quote]

People saying Mullin rides the refs. Point is all coaches do it.
Louie was pretty successful. Complained all the time. Still didn't stop Gtown from being allowed to mug Mullin for 40 minutes, Singleton BS tech against a not as successful at that point coach K or those blown calls vs Depaul and Joey Meyer in NCAA tourney.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=315268][quote="ron " post=315265][quote="we are sju" post=315264][quote="Moose" post=315261][quote="we are sju" post=315248][quote="Moose" post=315238][quote="Beast of the East" post=315236][quote="Moose" post=315229][quote="Boo Harvey" post=315224]I'm not looking at his stats, but from watching Heron this year, he's been a turnover machine. He recklessly bulls his way to the basket like Ahmed did last year and frequently turns it over. I didn't watch him at Auburn, but I can't believe this is a new development. It's one thing for a good shooter to go cold, but it's another thing for a stud athlete to suddenly forget how to drive the ball to the hoop and make plays.[/quote]

Maybe you should look at his stats.
2.4, 2.1, 2.5
Those are his TPG over the 3 years.

The Big East is a physical conference. More so than SEC. Less FT's per game is likely him not getting calls he use to get in SEC. Bottom line is he's the same player he was in 2 years at Auburn. He had 2 regular games to start BE and 3 bad since.[/quote]

Ehh, he's from Bridgeport, so I'm sure he's game tough enough and used to contact.

Although.... early in my career I worked in a hospital uptown. Some of the older black guys knew Jabbar (Alcindor) from the schoolyard games, and they said he hated to get hit, and called fouls all game, even at 7 plus feet tall against smaller competition. As a result he had little street cred in Harlem. They would go on and on about Dwayne Washington, though, who they called by his street name, Pac-Man instead of Pearl. Great nickname because he could zip around the court and change direction completely on the fly, devouring opponents.

They also loved Chris Mullin, who they called "Little Larry Bird"[/quote]

He complains a lot when fouled or not fouled. The whole team does. Then again they must pick it up from the HC.[/quote]

Louie complained, Fran complained and so did Jarvis.
Almost all successful college coaches complain to refs
Norm didn't complain about refs[/quote]

I bet all those coaches you mentioned knew the officials by name.[/quote]

Coach K scolds refs like they are his children. Never gets a T and gets every call ever made.[/quote]

That's what success will do for you.[/quote]

People saying Mullin rides the refs. Point is all coaches do it.
Louie was pretty successful. Complained all the time. Still didn't stop Gtown from being allowed to mug Mullin for 40 minutes, Singleton BS tech against a not as successful at that point coach K or those blown calls vs Depaul and Joey Meyer in NCAA tourney.[/quote]

Yes but when you are 14-44 in conference and you do it many people are going to label you rightly or wrongly a whiner...

And if Norm Roberts were 14-44 and whining as much I don't think you would be making excuses for him...
 
Last edited:
[quote="fordham96" post=315270][quote="we are sju" post=315268][quote="ron " post=315265][quote="we are sju" post=315264][quote="Moose" post=315261][quote="we are sju" post=315248][quote="Moose" post=315238][quote="Beast of the East" post=315236][quote="Moose" post=315229][quote="Boo Harvey" post=315224]I'm not looking at his stats, but from watching Heron this year, he's been a turnover machine. He recklessly bulls his way to the basket like Ahmed did last year and frequently turns it over. I didn't watch him at Auburn, but I can't believe this is a new development. It's one thing for a good shooter to go cold, but it's another thing for a stud athlete to suddenly forget how to drive the ball to the hoop and make plays.[/quote]

Maybe you should look at his stats.
2.4, 2.1, 2.5
Those are his TPG over the 3 years.

The Big East is a physical conference. More so than SEC. Less FT's per game is likely him not getting calls he use to get in SEC. Bottom line is he's the same player he was in 2 years at Auburn. He had 2 regular games to start BE and 3 bad since.[/quote]

Ehh, he's from Bridgeport, so I'm sure he's game tough enough and used to contact.

Although.... early in my career I worked in a hospital uptown. Some of the older black guys knew Jabbar (Alcindor) from the schoolyard games, and they said he hated to get hit, and called fouls all game, even at 7 plus feet tall against smaller competition. As a result he had little street cred in Harlem. They would go on and on about Dwayne Washington, though, who they called by his street name, Pac-Man instead of Pearl. Great nickname because he could zip around the court and change direction completely on the fly, devouring opponents.

They also loved Chris Mullin, who they called "Little Larry Bird"[/quote]

He complains a lot when fouled or not fouled. The whole team does. Then again they must pick it up from the HC.[/quote]

Louie complained, Fran complained and so did Jarvis.
Almost all successful college coaches complain to refs
Norm didn't complain about refs[/quote]

I bet all those coaches you mentioned knew the officials by name.[/quote]

Coach K scolds refs like they are his children. Never gets a T and gets every call ever made.[/quote]

That's what success will do for you.[/quote]

People saying Mullin rides the refs. Point is all coaches do it.
Louie was pretty successful. Complained all the time. Still didn't stop Gtown from being allowed to mug Mullin for 40 minutes, Singleton BS tech against a not as successful at that point coach K or those blown calls vs Depaul and Joey Meyer in NCAA tourney.[/quote]

Yes but when you are 15-46 in conference and you do it many people are going to label you rightly or wrongly a whiner...

And if Norm Roberts were 15-46 and whining as much I don't think you would be making excuses for him...[/quote]

I don't think being more successful should give you the right to complain more or less than anyone else. Coaches are going to complain. that is my point. Mullin's record should have no bearing. I know more successful coaches- really programs get calls. My point is you are still allowed to complain about bad calls. no matter your record. So what people are saying because of his record he should just shut up and take it? Honestly thought he should have gone nuts at end of SH game.
 
Last edited:
[quote="we are sju" post=315274][quote="fordham96" post=315270][quote="we are sju" post=315268][quote="ron " post=315265][quote="we are sju" post=315264][quote="Moose" post=315261][quote="we are sju" post=315248][quote="Moose" post=315238][quote="Beast of the East" post=315236][quote="Moose" post=315229][quote="Boo Harvey" post=315224]I'm not looking at his stats, but from watching Heron this year, he's been a turnover machine. He recklessly bulls his way to the basket like Ahmed did last year and frequently turns it over. I didn't watch him at Auburn, but I can't believe this is a new development. It's one thing for a good shooter to go cold, but it's another thing for a stud athlete to suddenly forget how to drive the ball to the hoop and make plays.[/quote]

Maybe you should look at his stats.
2.4, 2.1, 2.5
Those are his TPG over the 3 years.

The Big East is a physical conference. More so than SEC. Less FT's per game is likely him not getting calls he use to get in SEC. Bottom line is he's the same player he was in 2 years at Auburn. He had 2 regular games to start BE and 3 bad since.[/quote]

Ehh, he's from Bridgeport, so I'm sure he's game tough enough and used to contact.

Although.... early in my career I worked in a hospital uptown. Some of the older black guys knew Jabbar (Alcindor) from the schoolyard games, and they said he hated to get hit, and called fouls all game, even at 7 plus feet tall against smaller competition. As a result he had little street cred in Harlem. They would go on and on about Dwayne Washington, though, who they called by his street name, Pac-Man instead of Pearl. Great nickname because he could zip around the court and change direction completely on the fly, devouring opponents.

They also loved Chris Mullin, who they called "Little Larry Bird"[/quote]

He complains a lot when fouled or not fouled. The whole team does. Then again they must pick it up from the HC.[/quote]

Louie complained, Fran complained and so did Jarvis.
Almost all successful college coaches complain to refs
Norm didn't complain about refs[/quote]

I bet all those coaches you mentioned knew the officials by name.[/quote]

Coach K scolds refs like they are his children. Never gets a T and gets every call ever made.[/quote]

That's what success will do for you.[/quote]

People saying Mullin rides the refs. Point is all coaches do it.
Louie was pretty successful. Complained all the time. Still didn't stop Gtown from being allowed to mug Mullin for 40 minutes, Singleton BS tech against a not as successful at that point coach K or those blown calls vs Depaul and Joey Meyer in NCAA tourney.[/quote]

Yes but when you are 15-46 in conference and you do it many people are going to label you rightly or wrongly a whiner...

And if Norm Roberts were 15-46 and whining as much I don't think you would be making excuses for him...[/quote]

I don't think being more successful should give you the right to complain more or less than anyone else. Coaches are going to complain. that is my point. Mullin's record should have no bearing. I know more successful coaches- really programs get calls. My point is you are still allowed to complain about bad calls. no matter your record. So what people are saying because of his record he should just shut up and take it? Honestly thought he should have gone nuts at end of SH game.[/quote]

Of course, a coache's record should not affect his ability to complain. However, human nature being what it is successful high profile coaches seem to get more leeway and more calls. Totally agree Mullin should have gone after the refs after the SH game. That was a situation where he would have been totally justified & perhaps the missed call would have gotten more publicity.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=315276]Correction he is 14-45 in conference.

Hopefully 15-45 after tonight.[/quote]

Roberts was 20-45 at the end of his 4th season. Mullin needs to win 6 more Big East games to equal the worst coach in St. John's history. God we set the bar low!
 
[quote="fordham96" post=315276]Correction he is 14-45 in conference.

Hopefully 15-45 after tonight.[/quote]

Roberts was 20-45 at the end of his 4th season. Mullin needs to win 6 more Big East games to equal the worst coach in St. John's history. God we set the bar low!
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=315259][quote="Marillac" post=315255][quote="austour" post=315254][quote="Marillac" post=315253]Anyone who has an issue with Heron was simply not being realistic with expectations. He only averaged 15 ppg as a physically superior soph. What did people expect here...20+? Ponds has always clearly been the better offensive player.

He's not close to an NBA player at this point but he could be a late first rounder next year if he stays and shows improvement. If he is not back next year it won't be because of the NBA.[/quote]


I think a lot of folks didn't watch Auburn games but look at the stats and combine that with the fact that he declared for the draft last year and expect that adds up to be an all-america type talent. I think he declared because he knew he didn't want to go back to Auburn and wanted to see if he had other options before moving on the transfer decision. He didn't. Glad to have him and hope he improves his play as the season moves along.[/quote]

Agreed. I am thrilled to have him. I'm more excited for him next year though. I think he can still show vast improvement over the rest of the season.

Former St. John's commit, Samir Doughty, has taken over for him and is averaging 9 ppg and is already a better offensive player IMO.[/quote]

Mustapha Heron was originally recruited by Slice to St. John's. He was a 5 star prep who went to Auburn to play for an established coach. He was an All SEC player who averaged 16 and 5 as a sophomore. As a senior in prep school he averaged 30.2 points per game and 8.0 rebounds per game. He scored 79 total points in the state semifinals and championship game. He was the Player of the Year 2 years in row in Connecticut.
It's befuddling me that you think that the much traveled Samir Doughty is even in the same class.
Mustapha was a shooting guard at Auburn. He is being used as a small forward by Mullin which is not his natural position and which is doing squat shit for his NBA aspirations. We play a herky jerky game that he is having a difficult time adjusting to. Its ironic that his game went south under the tutelage of two hall of famers.
I doubt he is looking forward to be tutored into irrelevance for another year.[/quote]

Hahahahaha

Please explain to the board the difference between a SG and a SF in 2019. You don't think a 6'5 220 lb kid can play the 3 in college?
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=315259][quote="Marillac" post=315255][quote="austour" post=315254][quote="Marillac" post=315253]Anyone who has an issue with Heron was simply not being realistic with expectations. He only averaged 15 ppg as a physically superior soph. What did people expect here...20+? Ponds has always clearly been the better offensive player.

He's not close to an NBA player at this point but he could be a late first rounder next year if he stays and shows improvement. If he is not back next year it won't be because of the NBA.[/quote]


I think a lot of folks didn't watch Auburn games but look at the stats and combine that with the fact that he declared for the draft last year and expect that adds up to be an all-america type talent. I think he declared because he knew he didn't want to go back to Auburn and wanted to see if he had other options before moving on the transfer decision. He didn't. Glad to have him and hope he improves his play as the season moves along.[/quote]

Agreed. I am thrilled to have him. I'm more excited for him next year though. I think he can still show vast improvement over the rest of the season.

Former St. John's commit, Samir Doughty, has taken over for him and is averaging 9 ppg and is already a better offensive player IMO.[/quote]

Mustapha Heron was originally recruited by Slice to St. John's. He was a 5 star prep who went to Auburn to play for an established coach. He was an All SEC player who averaged 16 and 5 as a sophomore. As a senior in prep school he averaged 30.2 points per game and 8.0 rebounds per game. He scored 79 total points in the state semifinals and championship game. He was the Player of the Year 2 years in row in Connecticut.
It's befuddling me that you think that the much traveled Samir Doughty is even in the same class.
Mustapha was a shooting guard at Auburn. He is being used as a small forward by Mullin which is not his natural position and which is doing squat shit for his NBA aspirations. We play a herky jerky game that he is having a difficult time adjusting to. Its ironic that his game went south under the tutelage of two hall of famers.
I doubt he is looking forward to be tutored into irrelevance for another year.[/quote]

After Heron's bust out 2nd half it makes you look like the norm Roberts of basketball analysis.
 
I'm not going off the deep end a proclaim Shamorie an NBA player. I don't know, and it remains to be seen if a team will use its first round pic on him. That's irrelevant to this point:

We have a talented top 5, and Keita is huge body who will only improve. Williams may be ready for prime time but not yet. Trimble to me just does not shoot well enough to be a 3 point specialist. But I digress.

This team's season success is simply powered by Ponds. Lots to like about the supporting cast, but remove Ponds and it's like taking out Duracells out of a kid's toys on Christmas morning and replacing them with cheap dollar store batteries. By noon the toys are all dead.

Points? Check
Assists? Yes
Drive and kick? Check
Double down in post? Check
Pickpocket? Check
Lead transition? Check
Rebounds? Check
Outside shooter? Check check
Penetration? Sick
Defender? Check

Yes. The other guys are very good. LJ for all he has shown, still a sleeper. Simon fills a scoresheet and is a good spot up threat. Clark has shut up detractors who said he was soft inside and lurks on the perimeter. And just as the mob was turning on Heron and essentially called him.overrated in a soft league, he explodes for 18 2nd half points.

But make no mistake, Ponds is our Jordan, our Magic, our LeBron, or Kobe. He makes everyone better, and with him HEALTHY we are a ranked tourney team who can play with anyone most nights.

If it was his back that caused him to slow down and launch ill advised 3s late in earlier BE games, those who tagged him with playing hero ball should be ashamed.

Ponds has stepped it up in all ways, and one game at a time with him healthy, we can bang through the 10 or more conference wins we need to dance. If that happens and we go deep, pond will see his dreams come true.

But for now, he is simply the man, and done everything asked of him. The improvement has been radical.
 
Last edited:
Clearly Ponds is the go-to player on this team. His penchant for getting assists makes him so enjoyable to watch. I do have to two concerns: 1) His free throws look a bit nonchalant, rather a determined, focused effort. I realize his percentage is decent, but it seems like with a little bit more focus, he could be outstanding in this aspect too. 2) Ponds also seems susceptible to being called for the "stupid" technical. If I were an opposing coach, I would be baiting him from the tip off on. I'll admit, I am not watching him throughout the game and opposing coaches could already be "working" him.

Otherwise, he is much improved and approaching legend status!
 
[quote="Steve Knortz" post=315576]Clearly Ponds is the go-to player on this team. His penchant for getting assists makes him so enjoyable to watch. I do have to two concerns: 1) His free throws look a bit nonchalant, rather a determined, focused effort. I realize his percentage is decent, but it seems like with a little bit more focus, he could be outstanding in this aspect too. 2) Ponds also seems susceptible to being called for the "stupid" technical. If I were an opposing coach, I would be baiting him from the tip off on. I'll admit, I am not watching him throughout the game and opposing coaches could already be "working" him.

Otherwise, he is much improved and approaching legend status![/quote]

He’s got lucky a few times this year in regards to techs, against both Marquette and creighton I thought he was at fault and surprised they were both ruled double technicals. Best player I’ve ever seen at St. John’s so this is all just nitpicking, but need to know when your pride isn’t as important as the game.
 
[quote="Steve Knortz" post=315576]Clearly Ponds is the go-to player on this team. His penchant for getting assists makes him so enjoyable to watch. I do have to two concerns: 1) His free throws look a bit nonchalant, rather a determined, focused effort. I realize his percentage is decent, but it seems like with a little bit more focus, he could be outstanding in this aspect too. 2) Ponds also seems susceptible to being called for the "stupid" technical. If I were an opposing coach, I would be baiting him from the tip off on. I'll admit, I am not watching him throughout the game and opposing coaches could already be "working" him.

Otherwise, he is much improved and approaching legend status![/quote]

Shamorie is a pleasure to watch. Yeah, a few reckless 3's here and there. His ability to create his own shot with ease and also find an open man across the court is impressive. His FT's seem to be lacking some arch for some reason. I think he would be automatic from the line if he applied the same arch as he does on his step back/fade away J.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=315580][quote="Steve Knortz" post=315576]Clearly Ponds is the go-to player on this team. His penchant for getting assists makes him so enjoyable to watch. I do have to two concerns: 1) His free throws look a bit nonchalant, rather a determined, focused effort. I realize his percentage is decent, but it seems like with a little bit more focus, he could be outstanding in this aspect too. 2) Ponds also seems susceptible to being called for the "stupid" technical. If I were an opposing coach, I would be baiting him from the tip off on. I'll admit, I am not watching him throughout the game and opposing coaches could already be "working" him.

Otherwise, he is much improved and approaching legend status![/quote]

He’s got lucky a few times this year in regards to techs, against both Marquette and creighton I thought he was at fault and surprised they were both ruled double technicals. Best player I’ve ever seen at St. John’s so this is all just nitpicking, but need to know when your pride isn’t as important as the game.[/quote]

Mintz sought him out an initiated it. Double-Tech was the right call. I don't mind it in that spot. I would have been upset if it was a closer game. Mintz isn't on Ponds' level. Alexander should be covering him and Howard.
 
It's January 2019 and NYC is about to be hit with two snow storms.
WHY are we discussing Shamorie Ponds summer?
Can our only active mod Knight just change the title to Shamorie Ponds???:) B) B) :p :p
 
Last edited:
[quote="Redman#13" post=315605]Where do people think Ponds lands in the list of all time sju greats?
I think TOP 3[/quote]

I don't go back that far in terms of all time, but I would say best at least since Mark Jackson, and maybe a better collegiate than Jackson.

The stuff he is doing this year, no one can touch in recent history - not D'Angelo, no one.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=315610][quote="Redman#13" post=315605]Where do people think Ponds lands in the list of all time sju greats?
I think TOP 3[/quote]

I don't go back that far in terms of all time, but I would say best at least since Mark Jackson, and maybe a better collegiate than Jackson.

The stuff he is doing this year, no one can touch in recent history - not D'Angelo, no one.[/quote]

Agreed.

1) Mullin
2) Artest
3) Ponds
I started following the team when Felipe got here, i was about 9
 
[quote="Redman#13" post=315605]Where do people think Ponds lands in the list of all time sju greats?
I think TOP 3[/quote]

I don't go back that far in terms of all time, but I would say best at least since Mark Jackson, and maybe a better collegiate than Jackson.

The stuff he is doing this year, no one can touch in recent history - not D'Angelo, no one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top