Shamorie Ponds

[quote="NCJohnnie" post=315816]Beast of the East wrote: Can you describe how Dove played? Never saw him.

Unreal that he was a very young 37 when he died in the car accident that drove into the water.

Beast, Dove played on the first Johnny team (1964-1965) that I ever saw in person and was the star of the team when I became a die-hard Johnny fan which probably colors my view of his game. Also, I was only 13 when I saw he and the Johnnies knock off Cazzie Russell & #1 Michigan in the holiday festival and admittedly watched basketball from a different perspective than I do these days. That was one of the first St. John's games I ever attended and definitely the first one I remember clearly. He was a sophomore (first year on varsity) that year and scored 23 against the rugged Bill Bunting in that huge upset. Dove was 6'7" but in those days that made him big enough to play as our center and/or power forward. He was very good around the basket but also had a good baseline jumper as I remember.
He was a consensus 2nd team All American as a senior and the #2 pick in the NBA draft. Also our 2nd leading rebounder of all time despite only playing 3 years. We finished 23-5 his senior year.[/quote]

I was at that Michigan game. Was that the year Bill Bradley led Princeton to the championship?
 
Ron wrote: I was at that Michigan game. Was that the year Bill Bradley led Princeton to the championship?

Bradley had a great game against Michigan in semis that year in a losing effort and then Johnnies upset Michigan to win the HF championship.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=315819]Berry was a beast. I would rank Mullin and Berry as 1 and 2. Both Wooden award winners.[/quote]

If had a better run his Junior year and had not been upset by Auburn I would have put him tied with Mullin. Most fun to watch player for sure.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=315819]Berry was a beast. I would rank Mullin and Berry as 1 and 2. Both Wooden award winners.[/quote]

Back to back!
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=315820]Ron wrote: I was at that Michigan game. Was that the year Bill Bradley led Princeton to the championship?

Bradley had a great game against Michigan in semis that year in a losing effort and then Johnnies upset Michigan to win the HF championship.[/quote]

Thank you! I remember Bradley scoring 40 points or so but did not recall the results.
 
mullin, berry, dove, davis.
I was also at that cazzie russell garden game.
dove was listed as 6' 8" his senior year.
in an era when you could see 10 games in a row with no one dunking, dove dunked often.
in 65 when Fordham won the mythical nyc championship, fu had a 6 5 center.
dove was an agile power forward, when most centers could not walk & chew until their junior year.
 
[quote="ron " post=315824][quote="NCJohnnie" post=315820]Ron wrote: I was at that Michigan game. Was that the year Bill Bradley led Princeton to the championship?

Bradley had a great game against Michigan in semis that year in a losing effort and then Johnnies upset Michigan to win the HF championship.[/quote]

Thank you! I remember Bradley scoring 40 points or so but did not recall the results.[/quote]
Was also there. Bradley was super, but fouled out & then Princeton lost its lead & unraveled to Cazzie, Bill Buntin, Oliver Darden Michigan monster team. Shocked SJU prevailed in finals.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=315821][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=315819]Berry was a beast. I would rank Mullin and Berry as 1 and 2. Both Wooden award winners.[/quote]

If had a better run his Junior year and had not been upset by Auburn I would have put him tied with Mullin. Most fun to watch player for sure.[/quote]

Ain’t that The Truth
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=315827][quote="ron " post=315824][quote="NCJohnnie" post=315820]Ron wrote: I was at that Michigan game. Was that the year Bill Bradley led Princeton to the championship?

Bradley had a great game against Michigan in semis that year in a losing effort and then Johnnies upset Michigan to win the HF championship.[/quote]

Thank you! I remember Bradley scoring 40 points or so but did not recall the results.[/quote]
Was also there. Bradley was super, but fouled out & then Princeton lost its lead & unraveled to Cazzie, Bill Buntin, Oliver Darden Michigan monster team. Shocked SJU prevailed in finals.[/quote]

My phys ed teacher and a bunch of students were at that game. NYC was abuzz the entire week. We had great seats in the old garden as he was on the St. John's team that went to the Final Four and was still very close to the program.
 
Beast, I was at the 65 NIT final vs. Nova, Lapchick's last game. Sonny played against Jim Washington of Nova. The thing that stands out in memory from the times I saw him in person or on TV was that somehow his feet and lower body strength got him in better position first against almost everybody.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=315840][quote="Paultzman" post=315827][quote="ron " post=315824][quote="NCJohnnie" post=315820]Ron wrote: I was at that Michigan game. Was that the year Bill Bradley led Princeton to the championship?

Bradley had a great game against Michigan in semis that year in a losing effort and then Johnnies upset Michigan to win the HF championship.[/quote]

Thank you! I remember Bradley scoring 40 points or so but did not recall the results.[/quote]
Was also there. Bradley was super, but fouled out & then Princeton lost its lead & unraveled to Cazzie, Bill Buntin, Oliver Darden Michigan monster team. Shocked SJU prevailed in finals.[/quote]

My phys ed teacher and a bunch of students were at that game. NYC was abuzz the entire week. We had great seats in the old garden as he was on the St. John's team that went to the Final Four and was still very close to the program.[/quote]

Red Holzman started Bradley over Cazzie, I think because Cazzie could provide more instant offense off the bench. Cazzie eventually was traded to the Warriors for Jerry Lucas, who was instrumental in helping the Knicks winning the second championship.

Funny, back then with so few games on TV, all I really knew about Lucas was the he and Oscar were 1 and 2 on some pretty mediocre KC Royals teams (that became the Sacramento Kings). From stats, I knew he was a tough rebounder who could also score, and I thought mostly close to the hoop. Lucas instead was incredibly accurate with a set shot from 35 feet and in. He played centers and would draw them far away from the basket. If they didn't come out, he would nail shot after shot. If they tried to guard him out there, he'd go around them for layups.

Interest, well known fact: Lucas was a virtual genius who was a 4.0 student at Ohio State. As a freshman he was reemed by a teacher for sitting in the back of the classroom with one leg slung over the chair in front of him. The teacher promised he wouldn't get a free ride as an athlete, and he would make life especially hell for him. At the end of the semester, with Lucas clearly becoming his top student, in front of the entire class the teacher apologized for having misjudged him.

As a Knick, he once memorized the NYC phone book. When asked about the long shots he would make that were rainmakers, he would explain how the high trajectory made it much easier to make long shots because the angle it passed through the cylinder allowed a much greater margin of error. The ball is 9 inches in diameter, the rim 18 inches. Smart guy.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=316891]http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-2019-60-pick-nba-mock-draft/

Don't agree with much of it and he has Heron getting drafted before Ponds.
Has Ponds going to Knicks along with Barrett so hope this guy is right though.[/quote]

Amazing that 27 of the first 30 picks are freshman and sophomores, with more of the former. Only one is an upperclassman, and 2 are international. Stats over 20 years show that second rounders have a 1 in 3 chance of a NBA career. Not really that bad. Don't know if the stats change depending where you go in second round. Marquette's Howard not on anyone's radar?
 
[quote="we are sju" post=316891]http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-2019-60-pick-nba-mock-draft/

Don't agree with much of it and he has Heron getting drafted before Ponds.
Has Ponds going to Knicks along with Barrett so hope this guy is right though.[/quote]

FYI-At this point I don't think mock draft projections ultimately will decide whether Ponds or Heron leave early or not. I think ultimately even if both are not projected to be drafted they are heavy leans to leave school after this year.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=316902][quote="we are sju" post=316891]http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-2019-60-pick-nba-mock-draft/

Don't agree with much of it and he has Heron getting drafted before Ponds.
Has Ponds going to Knicks along with Barrett so hope this guy is right though.[/quote]

FYI-At this point I don't think mock draft projections ultimately will decide whether Ponds or Heron leave early or not. I think ultimately even if both are not projected to be drafted they are heavy leans to leave school after this year.[/quote]

For sure with Ponds, but just IMO I could see Heron being helped by another year. But as far as mock projections having no bearing I do agree.
 
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