SHAMORI PONDS DRAFT PROJECTION & SIMON ???

Van Exel is the best successful comp for Ponds IMO. I found an old draft evaluation of Van Exel. But I don't think he was quite 6'1".

• Name: Nick Van Exel
• School: Cincinnati
• Height: 6'1"
• Weight: 171
• Strengths: ballhandling, knows how to run offense
• Weaknesses: too offensive minded, not a true playmaker, inconsistent
•
• Streaky shooter will good ballhanding skills, Van Exel has all the
• tools necessary to be a solid NBA player. Shows no fear on the
• offensive end of the floor and is able to create his own shot. Very
• good at finishing the break. Outstanding range -- when he's hitting.
• Needs to work on his defense and decision-making. Nick reminds me a
• lot of Henry Williams from UNC-Charlotte a year ago, but Van Exel has
• more quickness. Ability to gain a point guard's mentality will the
• the key to Van Exel's success in the NBA. He's not big enough to play
• shooting guard in the NBA. Likely an late first or early second round
• selection.
•
• Scout: Curtis Hill
 
The best thing is that Van Exel already came and went, so scouts presumably won't just immediately dismiss someone like Ponds because they don't fit a certain mold.

A 22-year-old LJSA knew Van Exel would succeed in the NBA just by looking at him. Sometimes you just need to trust your eyes. Van Exel had that special something. Ponds lost a little of it this season, but definitely had that special something his first two seasons.
 
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It’s astonishing how many people on here want Ponds or Simon to fail. It’s as if getting guys to play in the NBA is bad for recruiting or something...........
 
[quote="Chris7" post=350047]It’s astonishing how many people on here want Ponds or Simon to fail. It’s as if getting guys to play in the NBA is bad for recruiting or something...........[/quote]

I really don't think anyone wants him to fail; I am not his biggest fan but I would certainly love to see him succeed. Frankly, not because he went to SJU but because I have no reason at all to root against him. Critiquing anything honestly as one's sees it does not equate to rooting interest in the least. I have strong opinions but I don't need them validated through someone else's failure.
 
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FOLLOWING THE MAJOR TRADE INVOLVING ANTHONY DAVIS OF THE PELICANS GOING TO THE LAKERS FOR 3 PLAYERS & THIS YEARS # 4 PICK & TWO FUTURE #1'S. >JUNE 17TH SPORT'S ILLUSTRATED.COM LATEST DRAFT PROJECTION HAS SHAMORIE DROPPING TO THE BOTTOM 1/3 OF THE 2ND ROUND @ PICK # 55. THE CELTICS HAVE 3 PICKS IN THE FIRST ROUND & ONE IN THE 2ND. & ATLANTA ALSO HAS 3 FIRST ROUND PICKS & THREE SECOND ROUND PICKS.
I HAVE A HUNCH SHAMORIE ENDS UP IN ATLANTA OR BOSTON IN THE 2ND ROUND.
 
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[quote="RICH K aka Booksnball" post=352298]FOLLOWING THE MAJOR TRADE INVOLVING ANTHONY DAVIS OF THE PELICANS GOING TO THE LAKERS FOR 3 PLAYERS & THIS YEARS # 4 PICK & TWO FUTURE #1'S. >JUNE 17TH SPORT'S ILLUSTRATED.COM LATEST DRAFT PROJECTION HAS SHAMORIE DROPPING TO THE BOTTOM 1/3 OF THE 2ND ROUND @ PICK # 55. THE CELTICS HAVE 3 PICKS IN THE FIRST ROUND & ONE IN THE 2ND. & ATLANTA ALSO HAS 3 FIRST ROUND PICKS & THREE SECOND ROUND PICKS.
I HAVE A HUNCH SHAMORIE ENDS UP IN ATLANTA OR BOSTON IN THE 2ND ROUND.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.wikihow.com/Turn-Off-Caps-Lock[/URL]
 
I don't know. I think of all those times where Shamorie decided to hoist it up wide open from 24 feet, a shot the defenses gave him when in a zone, and he got nothing but rim. Yea, his highlight reel is as good as any PG in the draft, but his lowlight reel was way below the NBA grade. Why waste a second round pick, when the likelihood is that you could invite him to camp in the following year at no cost whatsoever and hope his shot has improved enough to allow him to stick on a roster.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=352303]I don't know. I think of all those times where Shamorie decided to hoist it up wide open from 24 feet, a shot the defenses gave him when in a zone, and he got nothing but rim. Yea, his highlight reel is as good as any PG in the draft, but his lowlight reel was way below the NBA grade. Why waste a second round pick, when the likelihood is that you could invite him to camp in the following year at no cost whatsoever and hope his shot has improved enough to allow him to stick on a roster.[/quote].

To answer your question because a team may like him and decide they don’t want to take s chance someone else grabs him.

Talent wise I still have no question he can play in the league. The right place and opportunity is of course extremely important. The work ethic narrative can’t help and sucks to hear.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=352304][quote="Beast of the East" post=352303]I don't know. I think of all those times where Shamorie decided to hoist it up wide open from 24 feet, a shot the defenses gave him when in a zone, and he got nothing but rim. Yea, his highlight reel is as good as any PG in the draft, but his lowlight reel was way below the NBA grade. Why waste a second round pick, when the likelihood is that you could invite him to camp in the following year at no cost whatsoever and hope his shot has improved enough to allow him to stick on a roster.[/quote].

To answer your question because a team may like him and decide they don’t want to take s chance someone else grabs him.

Talent wise I still have no question he can play in the league. The right place and opportunity is of course extremely important. The work ethic narrative can’t help and sucks to hear.[/quote]

“I got by on talent. That was my fatal mistake.” Pete Maravich quote I used constantly while coaching and in one or two posts here. The problem a lot of people have is they don’t realize commitment and discipline to maximize those God given abilities are talents too.
 
I watched Shamorie Ponds for most of his senior year of high school. A very crafty player with an incredible quick step to the basket. His mid range shot was natural but his defense was lacking in many games. Under a different staff he may have improved in decision making and body strength. Unfortunately none of his deficiencies were completely resolved and any one-to-one tutelage were not evident after 3 years. There is a world of difference between Toronto's Kyle! Lowry and Van Vleet and it's not just the 15 pounds these 6 footers have on Shamorie. They play hardnose defense and make good decisions. That comes from the playing for two of the best college coaches in the game.
 
Seth Davis of the The Athletic pulled together the "collective thoughts" of NBA scouts on 50 prospects heading into the draft. The analysis did not flatter our man Shamorie. I don't agree with the following, but share it for sake of discussion:

Shamorie Ponds, 6-1 guard, St. John’s, 20. “Can’t stand him. He’s an undersized 2 guard. I saw him disappear in some games when they really needed him. Super streaky. He never really worked on his body. He’s a fearless scorer. When they needed a surge at the end of the game, he was the guy who did it. No positional versatility on defense. He has to defend point guards. I love him as a kid, Brooklyn guy with a lot of personality, but he’s really small. I’m not sure he’s ever lifted a weight. It would be hard to take him.”

For context, the collective wisdom also found flaws with a lottery pick with (loose) St. John's ties:

R.J. Barrett, 6-7 forward, Duke, 18. “Say what you want, the kid just produces. His greatest asset is he’s an alpha. He thinks he’s the best player in the gym. Winner’s mentality but cannot shoot the ball right now. Much more athletic in transition. I wonder if he’s going to be a better version of Shabazz Muhammad. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a star, but he’ll be good. At times I thought he was playing for his numbers instead of making the right play. I think the added space of the NBA is going to help him. His selfishness is certainly a question, but the kid has won at every level.”
 
[quote="SJU14" post=352300][quote="RICH K aka Booksnball" post=352298]FOLLOWING THE MAJOR TRADE INVOLVING ANTHONY DAVIS OF THE PELICANS GOING TO THE LAKERS FOR 3 PLAYERS & THIS YEARS # 4 PICK & TWO FUTURE #1'S. >JUNE 17TH SPORT'S ILLUSTRATED.COM LATEST DRAFT PROJECTION HAS SHAMORIE DROPPING TO THE BOTTOM 1/3 OF THE 2ND ROUND @ PICK # 55. THE CELTICS HAVE 3 PICKS IN THE FIRST ROUND & ONE IN THE 2ND. & ATLANTA ALSO HAS 3 FIRST ROUND PICKS & THREE SECOND ROUND PICKS.
I HAVE A HUNCH SHAMORIE ENDS UP IN ATLANTA OR BOSTON IN THE 2ND ROUND.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.wikihow.com/Turn-Off-Caps-Lock[/URL][/quote]

I know! it is so annoying. Rich, please walk me through the process of deciding your post needs to be in all caps? Bob Barker......please feel free to chime in.

Yes, rough day at work.......perhaps a little cranky this evening.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=352314]I watched Shamorie Ponds for most of his senior year of high school. A very crafty player with an incredible quick step to the basket. His mid range shot was natural but his defense was lacking in many games. Under a different staff he may have improved in decision making and body strength. Unfortunately none of his deficiencies were completely resolved and any one-to-one tutelage were not evident after 3 years. There is a world of difference between Toronto's Kyle! Lowry and Van Vleet and it's not just the 15 pounds these 6 footers have on Shamorie. They play hardnose defense and make good decisions. That comes from the playing for two of the best college coaches in the game.[/quote]

I am not going to compare the coaches because there is no comparison, BUT, I can’t agree that a player at the D1 level needs to be coached to play defense or that a player with pro aspirations needs to be coached to work at his game. Maybe Mullin didn’t help, I don’t know, but for example, do you think Mullin spent all those legendary midnight hours in the gym because of Louie’s coaching? A pet peeve of mine, but we seem to have lost the concept of self determination and personal responsibility. IMO, it is not anyone’s fault but your own if you want something more than you are willing to work for it.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=352317][quote="SJU14" post=352300][quote="RICH K aka Booksnball" post=352298]FOLLOWING THE MAJOR TRADE INVOLVING ANTHONY DAVIS OF THE PELICANS GOING TO THE LAKERS FOR 3 PLAYERS & THIS YEARS # 4 PICK & TWO FUTURE #1'S. >JUNE 17TH SPORT'S ILLUSTRATED.COM LATEST DRAFT PROJECTION HAS SHAMORIE DROPPING TO THE BOTTOM 1/3 OF THE 2ND ROUND @ PICK # 55. THE CELTICS HAVE 3 PICKS IN THE FIRST ROUND & ONE IN THE 2ND. & ATLANTA ALSO HAS 3 FIRST ROUND PICKS & THREE SECOND ROUND PICKS.
I HAVE A HUNCH SHAMORIE ENDS UP IN ATLANTA OR BOSTON IN THE 2ND ROUND.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.wikihow.com/Turn-Off-Caps-Lock[/URL][/quote]

I know! it is so annoying. Rich, please walk me through the process of deciding your post needs to be in all caps? Bob Barker......please feel free to chime in.

Yes, rough day at work.......perhaps a little cranky this evening.[/quote]. Take a Pill, you'll feel better.
 
[quote="Logen" post=352318][quote="Class of 72" post=352314]I watched Shamorie Ponds for most of his senior year of high school. A very crafty player with an incredible quick step to the basket. His mid range shot was natural but his defense was lacking in many games. Under a different staff he may have improved in decision making and body strength. Unfortunately none of his deficiencies were completely resolved and any one-to-one tutelage were not evident after 3 years. There is a world of difference between Toronto's Kyle! Lowry and Van Vleet and it's not just the 15 pounds these 6 footers have on Shamorie. They play hardnose defense and make good decisions. That comes from the playing for two of the best college coaches in the game.[/quote]

I am not going to compare the coaches because there is no comparison, BUT, I can’t agree that a player at the D1 level needs to be coached to play defense or that a player with pro aspirations needs to be coached to work at his game. Maybe Mullin didn’t help, I don’t know, but for example, do you think Mullin spent all those legendary midnight hours in the gym because of Louie’s coaching? A pet peeve of mine, but we seem to have lost the concept of self determination and personal responsibility. IMO, it is not anyone’s fault but your own if you want something more than you are willing to work for it.[/quote]



Part of a coach's responsibility is to hold players accountable for their behavior and attitude. Mullin did not do that with Shamorie, who appeared to be out of shape to me and some others last year. Shamorie's decision making left a lot to be desired at times. Mullin could have sat him down for a couple of minutes to let him know that he was not playing well, but that did not happen. For all intents and purpose, Shamorie was the man. However, he never realized that a lot of responsibility comes with being the man. This is where I feel that the coaching staff failed him. Not everyone is self motivated, sometimes players need a reality check.

Forget about Lowry or VanVleet, let's look at how Lavin handled D'Angelo when his attitude was poor. Lavin suspended him and held him accountable for his actions. This action ended up helping D'Angelo and St. Johns. While Shamorie's behavior may not have been as extreme as D'Angelo's, it was still detrimental to the team and should have been addressed. The fact that it was not is on the staff. Now I also understand, it is hard to bench the player who gives you the best chance of winning. The flip side is that when you don't, you lose control of that player and the team.

Having said this, I hope that Shamorie learned a lesson this year. He is a very talented player and can make it in the League if he can discipline himself. I am rooting for him to have a successful career. However, as Jerry Powell states, "hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard".
 
Ponds, IMO, would be better off not getting drafted on Thursday, then he would be going somewhere in the 50s. He'll get offers to come to camps, then he can pick and choose the place where he thinks he might fit best, instead of being locked into a team where he might have little or no shot to stay (which is what happened to Sir'Dom).
 
[quote="panther2" post=352336][quote="Logen" post=352318][quote="Class of 72" post=352314]I watched Shamorie Ponds for most of his senior year of high school. A very crafty player with an incredible quick step to the basket. His mid range shot was natural but his defense was lacking in many games. Under a different staff he may have improved in decision making and body strength. Unfortunately none of his deficiencies were completely resolved and any one-to-one tutelage were not evident after 3 years. There is a world of difference between Toronto's Kyle! Lowry and Van Vleet and it's not just the 15 pounds these 6 footers have on Shamorie. They play hardnose defense and make good decisions. That comes from the playing for two of the best college coaches in the game.[/quote]

I am not going to compare the coaches because there is no comparison, BUT, I can’t agree that a player at the D1 level needs to be coached to play defense or that a player with pro aspirations needs to be coached to work at his game. Maybe Mullin didn’t help, I don’t know, but for example, do you think Mullin spent all those legendary midnight hours in the gym because of Louie’s coaching? A pet peeve of mine, but we seem to have lost the concept of self determination and personal responsibility. IMO, it is not anyone’s fault but your own if you want something more than you are willing to work for it.[/quote]



Part of a coach's responsibility is to hold players accountable for their behavior and attitude. Mullin did not do that with Shamorie, who appeared to be out of shape to me and some others last year. Shamorie's decision making left a lot to be desired at times. Mullin could have sat him down for a couple of minutes to let him know that he was not playing well, but that did not happen. For all intents and purpose, Shamorie was the man. However, he never realized that a lot of responsibility comes with being the man. This is where I feel that the coaching staff failed him. Not everyone is self motivated, sometimes players need a reality check.

Forget about Lowry or VanVleet, let's look at how Lavin handled D'Angelo when his attitude was poor. Lavin suspended him and held him accountable for his actions. This action ended up helping D'Angelo and St. Johns. While Shamorie's behavior may not have been as extreme as D'Angelo's, it was still detrimental to the team and should have been addressed. The fact that it was not is on the staff. Now I also understand, it is hard to bench the player who gives you the best chance of winning. The flip side is that when you don't, you lose control of that player and the team.

Having said this, I hope that Shamorie learned a lesson this year. He is a very talented player and can make it in the League if he can discipline himself. I am rooting for him to have a successful career. However, as Jerry Powell states, "hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard".[/quote]

Great post.....says it all. I, too, hope Ponds has the epiphany before it's too late.
 
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