Roster will be better next year, addition by subtraction.
Seton Hall (UBS), Sun., Feb. 18, 5p, FS-1
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
Nah.
Rick had his fall from grace. He cheated. He had tournament wins vacated. He had to leave college basketball. Took awhile but now he’s back in high major D1.
For a variety of reasons, St. John’s and Pitino have found each other. If he’s not going to conduct himself in a professional manner, not going to take accountability, and is going to consistently throw his players under the bus, then he better start winning and fast or we’re gonna need to turn the page quicker than any of us thought.
Turn it around next year or it gets late early
That's what a lot of us thought this year, even myself to some extent.
I absolutely expect better next year for a number of reasons:
• the annual reset is going to be commonplace across college sports. Welcome to our new world.
• Pitino has a full recruiting cycle and already has some players he wants vs. players who were available.
• If Pitino made a mistake in thinking that good mid-major/Ivy League players could compete in the big east, he's had that theory disproven.
• I'm expecting a team that will be fiercely competitive next year. Mental and physical toughness will be a priority.
This stinks. My expectations for a season have rarely been higher or my disappointment greater. But two things are unchanged: I believe Pitino will, in time, change the culture and the performance; and, no matter how much we suck, I'll still be foolishly cheering for St. John's and believing better days are ahead. (What? I'm going to stop watching college b'ball or start rooting for UConn? Not gonna happen...)
My first rant of the season:
I am not in favor of Rick trashing the players, but......
This team is painfully soft. I drove out to Long Island (from Jersey) to see a team completely quit in the 2nd half. The Seton Hall kids wanted that game and bullied our team into submission.
Joel, Taylor Jr., and Dingle are soft with very little heart. Joel can keep is monster dunks against DePaul if he's going to shrink in the big spot. And, Dingle barely has a pulse -nevermind any fight. Yeah....Luis Jr. is talented, but he looks like he's playing his own personal offense. Yeah....Dunlap is a good shooter, but he is so far in his own head that he can't even hit the side of a barn.
A least Jenkins, Ledlum and Zuby show some fight. Time to turn this roster over and bring in some alpha dogs. And....hey Rick.....Storr, Stanley, King and Jones all could have started on your "fresh start" roster.
While I am at it.....let me take a shot at St. John's fans. Absolute church mice! We outnumbered SH fans by a significant margin, yet we still sit there listening to "Let's go Pirates" chants drowning out the men's lacrosse team (who, aside from the cheerleaders, are the only group making any noise).
Finally......two hamburgers, fries, a popcorn and two waters cost me $71. I got screwed twice tonight and that's not "what she said".
I am not in favor of Rick trashing the players, but......
This team is painfully soft. I drove out to Long Island (from Jersey) to see a team completely quit in the 2nd half. The Seton Hall kids wanted that game and bullied our team into submission.
Joel, Taylor Jr., and Dingle are soft with very little heart. Joel can keep is monster dunks against DePaul if he's going to shrink in the big spot. And, Dingle barely has a pulse -nevermind any fight. Yeah....Luis Jr. is talented, but he looks like he's playing his own personal offense. Yeah....Dunlap is a good shooter, but he is so far in his own head that he can't even hit the side of a barn.
A least Jenkins, Ledlum and Zuby show some fight. Time to turn this roster over and bring in some alpha dogs. And....hey Rick.....Storr, Stanley, King and Jones all could have started on your "fresh start" roster.
While I am at it.....let me take a shot at St. John's fans. Absolute church mice! We outnumbered SH fans by a significant margin, yet we still sit there listening to "Let's go Pirates" chants drowning out the men's lacrosse team (who, aside from the cheerleaders, are the only group making any noise).
Finally......two hamburgers, fries, a popcorn and two waters cost me $71. I got screwed twice tonight and that's not "what she said".
Ironic cause this is all we heard last March when pitino first got hired.
Truth is we don’t know anything until the next roster is set in stone and even then we won’t know what we really have until the season commences
Rocket
Well-known member
It's fine to critique the coaching. They earn the big bucks.
But please STOP with the "these are just students" crap.
These players are now earning what many professionals are earning overseas.
Their handlers bargain like 10th Ave pimps.
That 23 year old earning $100,000 doesn't need a pep talk if he's being counterproductive. He needs a kick in the ass.
If he's working at Citigroup and and has the level of production some of our players have, I guarantee you that 23 year old would have a very critical evaluation.
Few of these players were scouted by Pitino in the few weeks after almost all the previous players had their handlers negotiating with other programs. Being the penny pinching program we have been, Pitino didn't have much leeway in what he could offer to a couple of those players he wanted to keep. Hence, David Jones AJ Storr departed forthwith.
The question remains as to who blackballed the previous players and who evaluated the current players. There was a weak link in the transition.
Pitino has been preaching the same message all season. He is simply pointing out the obvious that most fans here have been aware of all season.
His freshmen are not physically developed yet for this level.
His returning center has a low motor and cannot play a complete game.
Taylor is a bust imo because he is not an offensive threat.
Ledlum would not have started ar Tennessee and Dingle was completely overrated in terms of his overall game.
RJ Luis rushes his game and it hurts the team momentum.
Alleyne is a one trick pony with shooting ability but is athletically awkward.
NOW, had there been no NIL and these were truly his high school recruits, I would tar and feather Rick with you all but that is no longer the case. He's trying to tell these players what their weaknesses are and where he wants improvement. I'm sure he's doing that in practice also. We want warriors on our team and so does Rick Pitino.
It's killing him watching his troops yield on offense and defend so poorly in real time.
I think any future wins will be gravy for him but he knows none of these players will change dramatically in the next three weeks.
He is not alone this season. Mick Cronin, a great coach at the legendary UCLA just lost to Utah, a team we defeated. UCLA is 14-12. A familiar number?
But please STOP with the "these are just students" crap.
These players are now earning what many professionals are earning overseas.
Their handlers bargain like 10th Ave pimps.
That 23 year old earning $100,000 doesn't need a pep talk if he's being counterproductive. He needs a kick in the ass.
If he's working at Citigroup and and has the level of production some of our players have, I guarantee you that 23 year old would have a very critical evaluation.
Few of these players were scouted by Pitino in the few weeks after almost all the previous players had their handlers negotiating with other programs. Being the penny pinching program we have been, Pitino didn't have much leeway in what he could offer to a couple of those players he wanted to keep. Hence, David Jones AJ Storr departed forthwith.
The question remains as to who blackballed the previous players and who evaluated the current players. There was a weak link in the transition.
Pitino has been preaching the same message all season. He is simply pointing out the obvious that most fans here have been aware of all season.
His freshmen are not physically developed yet for this level.
His returning center has a low motor and cannot play a complete game.
Taylor is a bust imo because he is not an offensive threat.
Ledlum would not have started ar Tennessee and Dingle was completely overrated in terms of his overall game.
RJ Luis rushes his game and it hurts the team momentum.
Alleyne is a one trick pony with shooting ability but is athletically awkward.
NOW, had there been no NIL and these were truly his high school recruits, I would tar and feather Rick with you all but that is no longer the case. He's trying to tell these players what their weaknesses are and where he wants improvement. I'm sure he's doing that in practice also. We want warriors on our team and so does Rick Pitino.
It's killing him watching his troops yield on offense and defend so poorly in real time.
I think any future wins will be gravy for him but he knows none of these players will change dramatically in the next three weeks.
He is not alone this season. Mick Cronin, a great coach at the legendary UCLA just lost to Utah, a team we defeated. UCLA is 14-12. A familiar number?
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Yea, but Pitino gets paid for the experience, and we have to pay for it.
Last time we played Seton Hall On January 16th we were tied at 24 with about 4 minutes left in the first half. Then through 8 minutes more of game time (that took us into the second half at around the 16 minute mark) we were down 52 to 24, after a 28 to 0 Pirates run. Tonight we were up 38 to 19 with about 3 minutes left in the first half. This time it took almost twice as long (fifteen minutes of game time) and it was a 28 to 7 Seton Hall run that evaporated our big lead and put us down two 47 to 45 at around the 8 minute mark of the second half. Last time we shot only 14 free throws to Seton Hall's 32. This time we shot only 13 free throws to Seton Hall's 37. In both games we outscored Seton Hall from the floor (last time 57-54 and this time 52 to 43) yet lost both games. Last time we had Steve Masiello on the bench coaching us and this time we had Hall of Famer Rick Pitino on the bench coaching us. You would have thought it would have been different this time, but at the end of the day it really wasn't that much different at all.
The first time I attributed the loss to Pitino being out with Covid, but tonight the results were similar with our Hall of Fame Coach running the show. The poor end of the first half and the poor start of the second half happened in a pretty similar fashion.
The thing was that tonight we desperately needed this game to right the course of the season and Seton Hall did not. In a very big spot the team came up really small. We can say it is on the players and for sure they have a large part to do with it, but the coach needs to take responsibility for what happens on the court too. Pitino has been all over the place with his assessment's about the team and his moving narrative about his players seems pretty disingenuous at times.
The ability to get players to play above their heads is part of what a coach can do and making adjustments on the fly is also what Coach's can do. Last season Mike Anderson took heat for this and this year Pitino has the same level of culpability for the team's play IMHO. Assuming we don't end the season with an unexpected flourish to save the season, we need to hope that we can put a better product out on the court next year.
The first time I attributed the loss to Pitino being out with Covid, but tonight the results were similar with our Hall of Fame Coach running the show. The poor end of the first half and the poor start of the second half happened in a pretty similar fashion.
The thing was that tonight we desperately needed this game to right the course of the season and Seton Hall did not. In a very big spot the team came up really small. We can say it is on the players and for sure they have a large part to do with it, but the coach needs to take responsibility for what happens on the court too. Pitino has been all over the place with his assessment's about the team and his moving narrative about his players seems pretty disingenuous at times.
The ability to get players to play above their heads is part of what a coach can do and making adjustments on the fly is also what Coach's can do. Last season Mike Anderson took heat for this and this year Pitino has the same level of culpability for the team's play IMHO. Assuming we don't end the season with an unexpected flourish to save the season, we need to hope that we can put a better product out on the court next year.
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Until recently, I firmly held the conviction that these are student-athletes who should not subjected to this kind of personal criticism. Then I read how the average NIL fee for a starter is about $200-$300K. When you're paid like a pro, you're going to be assessed like a pro.
MugCostanza
Well-known member
I agree the postgame comment stuff can be bad optics and the frustrations of the season have burned some goodwill now that the honeymoon phase is over but 11 months ago it was SJU that needed Rick Pitino more than vice versa and just hiring him has made this program more relevant than we've been in over two decades
1. To me, you have to try and curb a reset as much as possible. Some guys leaving are inevitable, but you can't be turning over the whole roster every year. Having returning players means a lot .
2. We'll see. Going to be a lot of pressure on the new kids to turn things around. That hasn't worked out in the past, for us.
3. There's a place for a good mid-major player, possibly even 2 or 3, but you can't build your whole team around them, and win, in the Big East.
4. I don't know. You might get those things, and the record may be the same. If we're getting better, and the rest of the league is also getting better at the same time, that doesn't help us any. There's no reason Providence and Seton Hall should be this far ahead of us as programs, and they have a first and second year coach, respectively. But even so, the league needs to come back to us a little bit. Not too much, but the door needs to be opened somewhat. Right now, it's being slammed shut.
Rocket
Well-known member
You are right about one thing and that thing has affected the other things you mentioned. His carelessness with ball has been his major flaw. Should he choose to play a more cerebral game, he has the athletic ability to play at this level.
Hate seeing our coach throw his players under the bus. Wouldn’t you figure a HOF coach could adjust his style of play a bit to better suit his current team instead of just repeating the same mantra after every game?
CRP keeps saying we’re slow and our defense sucks (it does). Yet our 2 best perimeter defenders Alleyne and Taylor don’t play nearly enough. Wilcher sure looks athletic to me. He’s not ready yet? How about we find out?
I never post and I’m 100% sure Rick will get this program rolling but those quotes didn’t sit right with me and he’s gotta start pointing that thumb of his as well as the finger once in awhile.
What SJU “needed” was a great coach who was motivated and ready to compete in the modern age of college basketball
Sad thing is I’m not sure we hired that anymore
But yea he definitely won the press conference, said the right things, but so did mullin. You gotta follow through
Silly Donovan
Well-known member
One can only imagine what Father Shanley’s reaction to Coach Pitino’s after game rants. I would think he’s not exactly thrilled especially cause now it’s all over the internet on the CBS sports line. This is publicity we didn’t need.
Hard to think this hasn’t been some type of factor in locker room. It’s very striking
I'm guessing DJ gets a pass because he competes. He may not be successful but he doesn't disappear when things get tough. Not sure who else I could say consistently shows up when things are going south.
guinness77
Well-known member
These posters who are sticking up for what Pitino said, I have a question.
How often does the coach of a team, pro or not, rattle off the names of his individual players and point out the negatives of each player? I swear to God I’ve never seen this before so if someone can give me an example, please do.
Listen, this team sucks. They do. Keep this crap in the locker room.
How often does the coach of a team, pro or not, rattle off the names of his individual players and point out the negatives of each player? I swear to God I’ve never seen this before so if someone can give me an example, please do.
Listen, this team sucks. They do. Keep this crap in the locker room.