Season so far?

[mjmaherjr]

Came accross this long but somewhat very accurate analysis of Lavin, the team and the program.

http://crackbillionair.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/st-johns-growing-pains-and-poor-grooming/

Anyone else wondering how Bobo just came across some website called " crackbillionair " ?

 

[Ray Morgan]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

 

[monte]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

 

[SJU61982]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Wennington was a first round pick in 1985 as well, by Dallas. Middle of the first round, I believe, around 15th or so. Never became a great pro, but he has 3 NBA championship rings to show for it.

 

[bobo]

Came accross this long but somewhat very accurate analysis of Lavin, the team and the program.

http://crackbillionair.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/st-johns-growing-pains-and-poor-grooming/

Anyone else wondering how Bobo just came across some website called " crackbillionair " ?

Lol

 

[Ray Morgan]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Wennington was a first round pick in 1985 as well, by Dallas. Middle of the first round, I believe, around 15th or so. Never became a great pro, but he has 3 NBA championship rings to show for it.

How could I forget Wennington? It kind of tells you what it takes to advance that far, at least for SJU. I would guess that there are plenty of elite eight teams that had few if any players drafted. It would be interesting to find out.

 

[beast of the east]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Lemme get this straight. You think last year's #3 top scoring freshman in Division 1 (#1 of frosh on major conference teams) who's the #12 scorer in ALL of Division 1 THIS year was overrated as a top 100 talent out of high school? I don't mean to be rude, but are you insane?

I'm not saying that Harrison can't play, but stats in basketball don't always tell the whole story on a weaker team. Check out Flynn Robinson and Jon McGloughlin's (sp) stats on the Bucks pre-Alcindor and Robertson. Neither figured prominently in the Buck's future. Or Mad Dog Carter's points on the worst ever 76ers. Points have to come from somewhere on teams that aren't so great. Harrison on a top 10 team would score far less in a balanced attack and would not be the number 1 option.

 

[prjohnnies]

This article really lost credibility for me when, among other things, it tried to make the argument that Rice has done a better job at Rutgers. To reach that conclusion, you would have to basically ignore the fact that our 2010-2011 season was a billion times better than Rutgers, that our recruiting classes have been better, that we had the same record as RU last year despite the various problems we encountered (Lavin's health, losing 10 players to graduation due to Roberts' recruiting strategy, and the ineligibility of several key guys), and that in the past 2 years, we have already produced more pro's than Rice has. Plus, the author seems to focus on the Polee, etc, transfers as being a negative. Well Rice lost a player -- Biruta -- who is far more valuable than any of those guys. And they have lost players to eligibility issues as well, like many other big programs.

 

[crgreen]

Came accross this long but somewhat very accurate analysis of Lavin, the team and the program.

http://crackbillionair.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/st-johns-growing-pains-and-poor-grooming/

Rambling
Long

Find a new barber?
Testicular cancer?
Retaining Polee?
there were several freshmen point guards who stayed relatively local that are better players than Branch. really? This guy's handle fits him.

I commend you for getting all of that out of the article. My head hit the keyboard during the 2nd paragraph.

The proper response is from "Little Big Man"....."I have a pain between my ears."

 

[MCNPA]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Last I'm not sure of. Obekpa a shade smaller than 6'9". Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis good rebounders and shot blockers. Olajuwon wasn't much taller than 6'9". Plenty of others. Even Etan Thomas has made a nice long career for himself at 6'9" if that.

 

[monte]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Last I'm not sure of. Obekpa a shade smaller than 6'9". Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis good rebounders and shot blockers. Olajuwon wasn't much taller than 6'9". Plenty of others. Even Etan Thomas has made a nice long career for himself at 6'9" if that.

Thought Hakeem was closer to 6'11" but could be wrong. Obepka still needs to learn to box/ clean the glass like others you mentioned. But kid seems like hard worker with lots of upside.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Last I'm not sure of. Obekpa a shade smaller than 6'9". Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis good rebounders and shot blockers. Olajuwon wasn't much taller than 6'9". Plenty of others. Even Etan Thomas has made a nice long career for himself at 6'9" if that.

Thought Hakeem was closer to 6'11" but could be wrong. Obepka still needs to learn to box/ clean the glass like others you mentioned. But kid seems like hard worker with lots of upside.

The Houston cougers were the 1st college team I started watching and you are right back then known as Akeem was closer to your height numbers. I want to say he was close to 7ft but I'm not positive on that

 

[Ray Morgan]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Last I'm not sure of. Obekpa a shade smaller than 6'9". Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis good rebounders and shot blockers. Olajuwon wasn't much taller than 6'9". Plenty of others. Even Etan Thomas has made a nice long career for himself at 6'9" if that.

Thought Hakeem was closer to 6'11" but could be wrong. Obepka still needs to learn to box/ clean the glass like others you mentioned. But kid seems like hard worker with lots of upside.

The Houston cougers were the 1st college team I started watching and you are right back then known as Akeem was closer to your height numbers. I want to say he was close to 7ft but I'm not positive on that

If Olajuwon wasn't 7', he certainly played like it against Patrick Ewing.

 

[monte]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Last I'm not sure of. Obekpa a shade smaller than 6'9". Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis good rebounders and shot blockers. Olajuwon wasn't much taller than 6'9". Plenty of others. Even Etan Thomas has made a nice long career for himself at 6'9" if that.

Thought Hakeem was closer to 6'11" but could be wrong. Obepka still needs to learn to box/ clean the glass like others you mentioned. But kid seems like hard worker with lots of upside.

The Houston cougers were the 1st college team I started watching and you are right back then known as Akeem was closer to your height numbers. I want to say he was close to 7ft but I'm not positive on that

That team has to be one of the greatest-if not the greatest-college teams of all time to never win a championship.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Last I'm not sure of. Obekpa a shade smaller than 6'9". Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis good rebounders and shot blockers. Olajuwon wasn't much taller than 6'9". Plenty of others. Even Etan Thomas has made a nice long career for himself at 6'9" if that.

Thought Hakeem was closer to 6'11" but could be wrong. Obepka still needs to learn to box/ clean the glass like others you mentioned. But kid seems like hard worker with lots of upside.

The Houston cougers were the 1st college team I started watching and you are right back then known as Akeem was closer to your height numbers. I want to say he was close to 7ft but I'm not positive on that

That team has to be one of the greatest-if not the greatest-college teams of all time to never win a championship.

They were the reason I started watching college hoops. I didnt start following SJU till 87.

1st game I watched was at a family reunion and I was mesmerized watching them. Been a college fan ever since

 

[L J S A]

I still think we have the talent to be a tourney team. Branch back soon and in a perfect world Sanchez as well. We need to get things together and start playing well.

Lawman, regardless of who was on the court, our energy and focus were MUCH better in the South Carolina game. I think it is archived on espn3. Look at our defense, transition ans especially motion on offense. Different team in that game.

And therefore the reason for the frustration, and the negativity. No doubt we have the talent to be a tourney team,but do we have the team to be a tourney team? It's a team game. We all look at the individual pieces: One of the best scorers in school history, the best shot blocker in school history, a candidate for Big East Rookie of the Year who will be in the NBA in a year or two. Almost all top 100 recruits. A real find in Balamou. The pieces don't yet fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, where you try to squeeze the thick ended piece into the thin opening. A two guard playing point. A PF playing center. And so on. Branch and Sanchez will fit perfectly, and maybe complete the puzzle. Without Sanchez, we are still missing a piece.

So, my question is for Ray M and MCN, and I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this,
but why is it obvious that we have the talent?

Yes, we have top 100 recruits, but at what point are you considered only as good as you're playing?
Sure, Dom was the 25th ranked recruit in his class according to ESPN... but when do we stop considering him an elite talent and consider him the 5pts and 4rebounds a game player that we've seen now for a year and a half?

It's still early in the season, and I'm not writing anyone off.
But if we're not playing well (and I don't think we are lately), then there's only logically a couple reasons.
1) We simply haven't "gelled" yet, and we have good individual pieces, but poor chemistry.
2) The coaching isn't good.
3) Maybe some of our players aren't as good as we thought they were.

I agree with you both that I thought we had a lot of talent on this team. But, I'm not sure that's obvious anymore.
At best, there's hidden talent. And alternatively, there could be less talent than we thought.

And to whoever responds with, "the sky isn't falling", "don't panic", I don't think it is either, and I didn't say that.
But when do we stop measuring guys on the talent we think they have, and judge them by what they're actually doing?

I referenced Obekpa, D Lo and Sampson. I think there's somewhat of a chance that all three make the NBA. Sampson seems like close to a sure thing. Anyone that can block shots like Obekpa will find his way onto a NBA roster. Not sure what to make of D Lo. Does not fit the mold that NBA teams look for. Pointer can go 5 and 4 all day, if he plays hard D. He even made a few jump shots this year. Garrett has played for less than a full season. Balamou is a real find.

In 1998 or 1999, we were a bucket from the final four. That team had three players drafted, maybe 4. Can't remember if Grant got drafted. Barkley lasted a short time. So did Postell. Artest has had a real career. Thornton has done very well in Europe.

I think the 1985 Mullin team had 3 players drafted for sure: Mullin, Berry, and Jackson. Both Glass and Rowan were in NBA camps. Don't remember if they were drafted. My point? These were elite eight and final four teams. This team will likely have two first round picks, and maybe, if Harrison matures and doesn't get Omar Cook kind of crazy and leave early, a third. No one is saying elite eight or final four, but isn't that enough to say there is talent here? I don't think Balamou has scratched the surface of his talent. He has the type of mad athleticism we never smelled during Norm's era. The type that NBA scouts drool over. How long has he played basketball? Unlike Harrison, his form hasn't been exposed. That's my case. Feel free to argue differently

85 team also had Freshman Shelton Jones who didn't play much that year but eventually became a 2nd round pick of the Spurs. Agree with most of what you say but Obekpa has a ways to go before he's NBA ready. Also wonder how the scouts will look upon his lack of height for a shot blocker. Who was the last 6' 8" shot blocker in the NBA?

Last I'm not sure of. Obekpa a shade smaller than 6'9". Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis good rebounders and shot blockers. Olajuwon wasn't much taller than 6'9". Plenty of others. Even Etan Thomas has made a nice long career for himself at 6'9" if that.

MCNPA is right: the Dream was only about 6'9". And another guy to add is Alonzo, who was really about 6'8".

 

[sam i am]

did we forget bill wennington who had a many year run with the chicago bulls.

 

[bamafan]

Read an article posted on one of the boards that quoted coach Lavin as stating that Chris O is actually 6'7 1/2. of course he has an unusually long wing span but needs time to fill out and get much stronger to have close to the same shot blocking affect in the NBA.imho.

 

[crgreen]

Can't remember if it was this board or another, but the closest size/skill set match I can come up with is Mississippi State's Jarvis Vanardo. Vanardo, who graduated in 2010 is Division 1's all time leading shot blocker with 564. He started slow offensively and on the boards as well, but ended his career as one of only 2 players in history with 1000 pts, 1000 rebs and 500 blocks (the other is David Robinson). Listed at 6'9 225 as a frosh/soph at MSU, he's closer to 6'8....

By the way, the record he broke wasn't the Admirals. The record was held by (still #2 all time) Lousiana-Monroe's 7'2 Wojciech Myrda.

Varnardo avevaged 5 pts, 4 rebs and 1.9 blocks as a frosh (total 67 blocks).

 

[redmanwest]

Hakeem was 6'8-9" and Alonzo was a legit 6'10-11"