Season so far?

[Ray Morgan]

What can one take from the easy part of the schedule other than something is very wrong in Queens. Two of the three losses were by double digits. Most of the wins were struggles against cupcakes. South Carolina was our best game, but they had cut the lead to 10 with plenty of time left until one of their players was carted off on a stretcher. They gave up after that.

I said after the NJIT game that making the dance was a stretch. One poster called me nuts. I put on my "homer" cap and looked at the schedule, thinking maybe I was wrong. I wasn't. That's the problem here. We put on our "homer" caps all lose all objectivity. Ask some friends that have coached the game but aren't SJU diehards to watch a game, and offer their opinions. I have. The verdict? A lot of athletes, but not a great mix. They have a few guys that can play is another comment I have heard. In college basketball these days, who doesn't?

The only conclusion you can reach is that a team with near NBA athleticism shouldn't get beat off the boards by far inferior athletes. Guys this long and quick should not get beat down the court. They should steal the ball frequently. They don't. Can anyone honestly say that any player on this team looks well coached? Not just now, but dating back to high or prep school. Where are the fundamentals? Where is the maturity? Does anyone honestly believe that the team is coming together as the real season approaches? That players are learning anything? I can't. The only hope is that all of the Big East teams,except for SJU, get hit by a plague consisting of boils and locusts. Or that Branch is the second coming of Mark Jackson, and that the NCAA gives us a break. We could use it.

 

[MCNPA]

What can one take from the easy part of the schedule other than something is very wrong in Queens. Two of the three losses were by double digits. Most of the wins were struggles against cupcakes. South Carolina was our best game, but they had cut the lead to 10 with plenty of time left until one of their players was carted off on a stretcher. They gave up after that.

I said after the NJIT game that making the dance was a stretch. One poster called me nuts. I put on my "homer" cap and looked at the schedule, thinking maybe I was wrong. I wasn't. That's the problem here. We put on our "homer" caps all lose all objectivity. Ask some friends that have coached the game but aren't SJU diehards to watch a game, and offer their opinions. I have. The verdict? A lot of athletes, but not a great mix. They have a few guys that can play is another comment I have heard. In college basketball these days, who doesn't?

The only conclusion you can reach is that a team with near NBA athleticism shouldn't get beat off the boards by far inferior athletes. Guys this long and quick should not get beat down the court. They should steal the ball frequently. They don't. Can anyone honestly say that any player on this team looks well coached? Not just now, but dating back to high or prep school. Where are the fundamentals? Where is the maturity? Does anyone honestly believe that the team is coming together as the real season approaches? That players are learning anything? I can't. The only hope is that all of the Big East teams,except for SJU, get hit by a plague consisting of boils and locusts. Or that Branch is the second coming of Mark Jackson, and that the NCAA gives us a break. We could use it.

You forgot to hit on the horrible style of our uniforms and excessive gloss on the Carnesecca Arena court... Locusts...lol

You really expect a team full of freshmen and sophs to be polished in November? Look at UK? Young teams struggle early. Fundamentals? We actually are too half of the league in FG%, turnover margin, A/TO ratio. Our glaring weakness is rebounding. Are we getting better? I have seen a lot of guys improve including Sampson, Greene, Garrett, Obekpa and others. Not every kid is going to get exponentially better every game.

As far as narrow wins over cupcakes, I have to say that not many have been cupcakes. Charleston, Detroit, Murray state not cupcakes. Even NJIT and Florida Gulf Coast were a lot better than the run-of-the-mill cupcake. NJIT gave Providence and the Hall tough games as well.

Our roster starts 3 sophs and 2 freshmen. The next 4 off the bench are soph, freshman, freshman, freshman. I hope there will come a time when we get out there and just "get it" like we did in the South Carolina game. In that game we moved well with purpose at both ends. We shot well, ran lots of screens, pick and rolls etc. we defended like crazy. We are capable of playing that way every game, but must find some consistency. Having a pg like Branch as a steadying force with the ball in his hands hopefully will help. He's a crafty passer, something we don't have right now.

Give these kids some time. There's a lot of season to go.

 

[rawdognyc]

2010-2011 team was 5-3 on December 11 with less talent. We know how that year ended. I'm not saying we will do great this year, however what I am saying is that we get a point guard in about a week who could very well be the missing piece that takes us up another level. You don't have to be a "homer " to think that we haven't seen the best of what is yet to come... I really hate coming on these boards, win or lose because people always look for negatives in everything.... we had a horrible game and yet still won by a double digit margin..

 

[monte]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Joe I can't find fault with Lavin as a recruiter. Harkless, Obekpa, Harrison and Sampson are all great talents. Most of the other kids are good talents(a few are great athletes) who should develop in to good-very good 4 year players. Considering what he inherited, he's done a phenomenal job recruiting. As for his game coaching, remember he did not come here with a reputation of being a very good game coach.

 

[MCNPA]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Joe I can't find fault with Lavin as a recruiter. Harkless, Obekpa, Harrison and Sampson are all great talents. Most of the other kids are good talents(a few are great athletes) who should develop in to good-very good 4 year players. Considering what he inherited, he's done a phenomenal job recruiting. As for his game coaching, remember he did not come here with a reputation of being a very good game coach.

Lavin's rep as a game coach came from disgruntled ucla fans. His bad game coaching rep really isn't supported by the numbers at ucla.

 

[SJUalum98]

What can one take from the easy part of the schedule other than something is very wrong in Queens. Two of the three losses were by double digits. Most of the wins were struggles against cupcakes. South Carolina was our best game, but they had cut the lead to 10 with plenty of time left until one of their players was carted off on a stretcher. They gave up after that.

I said after the NJIT game that making the dance was a stretch. One poster called me nuts. I put on my "homer" cap and looked at the schedule, thinking maybe I was wrong. I wasn't. That's the problem here. We put on our "homer" caps all lose all objectivity. Ask some friends that have coached the game but aren't SJU diehards to watch a game, and offer their opinions. I have. The verdict? A lot of athletes, but not a great mix. They have a few guys that can play is another comment I have heard. In college basketball these days, who doesn't?

The only conclusion you can reach is that a team with near NBA athleticism shouldn't get beat off the boards by far inferior athletes. Guys this long and quick should not get beat down the court. They should steal the ball frequently. They don't. Can anyone honestly say that any player on this team looks well coached? Not just now, but dating back to high or prep school. Where are the fundamentals? Where is the maturity? Does anyone honestly believe that the team is coming together as the real season approaches? That players are learning anything? I can't. The only hope is that all of the Big East teams,except for SJU, get hit by a plague consisting of boils and locusts. Or that Branch is the second coming of Mark Jackson, and that the NCAA gives us a break. We could use it.

I agree 100%.

Natural habits are so easy to fall into. The Fordham game was a perfect example. They're relying on their athletic abilities and not fundamentals.

There was one play late in the game where 4 guys blocked Canty's shot in the paint at the same time. This is after Obekpa had at least 8 blocks. 4 guys. When 4 guys have collapsed into the paint, is it really a question of how we are getting killed on the defensive glass when there isn't anyone there to rebound?

Fordham was 1-7 and were playing without their best player if I'm not mistaken. One kid goes for a career night for the 2nd game in a row. We were shooting 20% for the majority of the first half.

I want us to have a great season as much as the next guy but these numbers don't lie.

 

[MJDinkins]

I thought there was a thread with a similar title about a week ago. Maybe, I'm wrong, but I thought that was the case.

 

[Ray Morgan]

There comes a time to face the deficiencies, no matter how much you love the team. Youth takes a lot of the blame. Look at Norm's massive incoming class with D.J., Justin, Horne, etc. They were not in the same league talent wise with this one. Nothing like an Obekpa, Sampson, or Harrison in that group. Yet they matured, got better, and added some key elements like Brownlee and Hardy, and they had a big senior year. It can happen with this group, just not likely this season.

 

[boo haarvey]

There comes a time to face the deficiencies, no matter how much you love the team. Youth takes a lot of the blame. Look at Norm's massive incoming class with D.J., Justin, Horne, etc. They were not in the same league talent wise with this one. Nothing like an Obekpa, Sampson, or Harrison in that group. Yet they matured, got better, and added some key elements like Brownlee and Hardy, and they had a big senior year. It can happen with this group, just not likely this season.

But therein lies the problem. To a man, everyone on this board has predicted that Harrison is not coming back next year. Many have predicted Sampson will leave next year if not this. How can we use youth as an excuse if we're purposely recruiting one and done players. I gave the team a pass last year. Will not do so again.

 

[sjc88]

This is an interesting question and it was certainly interesting reading opinions of some other boarders. Here is my two cents:
1- Overall I am a little disappointed, I think their is quality talent here.
2- Youth is not/should not be an excuse. We have a Sophomore class that played plenty last year.
3- I am struggling with the endless substitution patterns. Heck, something went on last night where we wanted Balamou out and Garrett in BEFORE the opening tip. Also, Bourgault comes in hits a 3, then misses a 3 and he is gone back to the pine.
4- This team is getting killed on the boards and I don't see a committment to effort here until its almost too late. I am really questionning the redshirting of Gift. The whole NCAA thing with Sanchez is hurting us (undertstatement).
5- We have no PG.Hopefully, Branch when eligible fills the gap. Although, I know other posters who know and seen the kid more than I have have reservations about his overall game. This not a knock on Phil Greene, I think it is unfair to him since I don't think he is suited to the role currently given.
6- No idea what is up with D'Angelo. All I can see is bad body language when things don't go his way.He is a real talent but his emotions might get the best of him. Let's hope not.

Sorry for the length but I also still believe we can get this right. Unlike the past we have talent. Just need to get it moving in the right direction.

 

[bamafan]

Balamou situation related to him forgetting to put on his jersey-pre game garden jitters.

 

[Moose]

At 7-3 we are where we should be probably.

 

[Moose]

Interesting comments across the Board.. i was talking about the top 100 class overall, not focusing on one player,i.e harrison. Some here thought I was singly him out. not true..

I do think with this class that you have to be disappointed with the losses this year.. Murray State and USF seemingly are less talented but, outplayed us and won. Baylor might have better talent but, that game was blown too. Sampson and CO have played well. Felix hasn't gotten enough minutes nor has Marc..

And, fundamentally, our defense and offense aren't indicative of a good team.. Many other posters have questioned results so far too..

A question that hasn't been posed to Lavin directly is, why are you redshirting GG? Has he replied to that or, are we all just speculating? Waiting on Sanchez may be like waiting for Godot.

Murray St won over 30 games last year. They have arguably the top PG in the nation. They are made up of 4 yr players. We have all first or 2nd year players.

 

[LINY89]

Interesting comments across the Board.. i was talking about the top 100 class overall, not focusing on one player,i.e harrison. Some here thought I was singly him out. not true..

I do think with this class that you have to be disappointed with the losses this year.. Murray State and USF seemingly are less talented but, outplayed us and won. Baylor might have better talent but, that game was blown too. Sampson and CO have played well. Felix hasn't gotten enough minutes nor has Marc..

And, fundamentally, our defense and offense aren't indicative of a good team.. Many other posters have questioned results so far too..

A question that hasn't been posed to Lavin directly is, why are you redshirting GG? Has he replied to that or, are we all just speculating? Waiting on Sanchez may be like waiting for Godot.

Murray St won over 30 games last year. They have arguably the top PG in the nation. They are made up of 4 yr players. We have all first or 2nd year players.

Yes Murray State was great last year, but best PG in the nation doubtful. Jackson is better than him. We contained Canaan and held him to something like 35% that game. Against major conference opponents he is not the best PG...definitely among mid majors though. He relies too much on his 3 instead of penetration and when his 3's don't fall he is not good. You guys speak of D'Lo being a selfish player, Canaan barely ever passes he just shoots even if it's 5 ft beyond the 3 pt arc. He plays for NBA scouts, not for his team some games.

With that said, I think 7-3 is about where we should be. I can understand losses vs. Murray and Baylor. The SF game was unexpected but hopefully that was just the token trap game that we lost even though we were more talented. We cannot lose any other OOC games before Big East play if we want to have any chance of a postseason whether that be NIT or NCAA (a reach). I hope Branch is a life saver, but in reality he probably won't be. I know it was early but he really didn't impress me during the scrimmages at midnight madness. Was not a player who really stood out. Let's hope we get some luck and hit the jackpot for once with Branch.

 

[Moose]

Interesting comments across the Board.. i was talking about the top 100 class overall, not focusing on one player,i.e harrison. Some here thought I was singly him out. not true..

I do think with this class that you have to be disappointed with the losses this year.. Murray State and USF seemingly are less talented but, outplayed us and won. Baylor might have better talent but, that game was blown too. Sampson and CO have played well. Felix hasn't gotten enough minutes nor has Marc..

And, fundamentally, our defense and offense aren't indicative of a good team.. Many other posters have questioned results so far too..

A question that hasn't been posed to Lavin directly is, why are you redshirting GG? Has he replied to that or, are we all just speculating? Waiting on Sanchez may be like waiting for Godot.

Murray St won over 30 games last year. They have arguably the top PG in the nation. They are made up of 4 yr players. We have all first or 2nd year players.

Yes Murray State was great last year, but best PG in the nation doubtful. Jackson is better than him. We contained Canaan and held him to something like 35% that game. Against major conference opponents he is not the best PG...definitely among mid majors though. He relies too much on his 3 instead of penetration and when his 3's don't fall he is not good. You guys speak of D'Lo being a selfish player, Canaan barely ever passes he just shoots even if it's 5 ft beyond the 3 pt arc. He plays for NBA scouts, not for his team some games.

With that said, I think 7-3 is about where we should be. I can understand losses vs. Murray and Baylor. The SF game was unexpected but hopefully that was just the token trap game that we lost even though we were more talented. We cannot lose any other OOC games before Big East play if we want to have any chance of a postseason whether that be NIT or NCAA (a reach). I hope Branch is a life saver, but in reality he probably won't be. I know it was early but he really didn't impress me during the scrimmages at midnight madness. Was not a player who really stood out. Let's hope we get some luck and hit the jackpot for once with Branch.

I'm happy you used the quote function because you don't very often. But it sucks you did and threw out the line about Dee being selfish because I am not one who says that and frankly I embrace what Dee is.

NBA guys are extremely high on Canaan. Yes we stopped him but let Wilson shoot all over us. Again it was one of those games we did some things right and failed in other areas.

By the way San Fran lost to Pacific. Go figure.

 

[monte]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Joe I can't find fault with Lavin as a recruiter. Harkless, Obekpa, Harrison and Sampson are all great talents. Most of the other kids are good talents(a few are great athletes) who should develop in to good-very good 4 year players. Considering what he inherited, he's done a phenomenal job recruiting. As for his game coaching, remember he did not come here with a reputation of being a very good game coach.

Lavin's rep as a game coach came from disgruntled ucla fans. His bad game coaching rep really isn't supported by the numbers at ucla.

I have a number of friends from the west coast who are not UCLA fans but who are big time college basketball fans and who have watched the program very closely for many years. None felt strongly about Lavin's game coaching abilities. Just saying.

 

[Section3]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Joe I can't find fault with Lavin as a recruiter. Harkless, Obekpa, Harrison and Sampson are all great talents. Most of the other kids are good talents(a few are great athletes) who should develop in to good-very good 4 year players. Considering what he inherited, he's done a phenomenal job recruiting. As for his game coaching, remember he did not come here with a reputation of being a very good game coach.

Lavin's rep as a game coach came from disgruntled ucla fans. His bad game coaching rep really isn't supported by the numbers at ucla.

I have a number of friends from the west coast who are not UCLA fans but who are big time college basketball fans and who have watched the program very closely for many years. None felt strongly about Lavin's game coaching abilities. Just saying.

People questionTom Coughlin as well...Bottom line, Lavin has been successful...and people forget we had our share of issues last year as well...we're a program on the come...that's all that counts

 

[MCNPA]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Joe I can't find fault with Lavin as a recruiter. Harkless, Obekpa, Harrison and Sampson are all great talents. Most of the other kids are good talents(a few are great athletes) who should develop in to good-very good 4 year players. Considering what he inherited, he's done a phenomenal job recruiting. As for his game coaching, remember he did not come here with a reputation of being a very good game coach.

Lavin's rep as a game coach came from disgruntled ucla fans. His bad game coaching rep really isn't supported by the numbers at ucla.

I have a number of friends from the west coast who are not UCLA fans but who are big time college basketball fans and who have watched the program very closely for many years. None felt strongly about Lavin's game coaching abilities. Just saying.

Everybody is an armchair quarterback. I'll stick with the stats which say he coached his teams to at least the Sweet 16 or further every season he was at UCLA except one. He even unseated the higher ranked #1 team in the country 4 seasons in a row. He got to SJU and beat up on Duke at the Garden as well as eventual national champion Uconn at SJU and we were a DJ Kennedy injury away from maybe making a good run. Say what you will, but he has only 2 losing seasons in his entire career and one of them he wasn't even coaching and out with cancer recovery.

I don't think he's any sort of coaching swami. I just think that the game coaching stuff is actually overrated. I think it is important to know how to coach basketball. Of course it is important. I'll take a guy that's knows how to recruit a team and build a program. Lots of grest coaches out there that have never and will never see the success Lavin has already in his short career.

This SJU team is young, but we are very talented. This is The youngest team in the country top to bottom and we are currently 7-3 with only one bad loss to San Fran. The other two were to top 25 teams. All that and we are still missing what was supposed to be our starting PG and starting PF. I have to question all the doom and gloom at this point because it doesn't make much sense. I guess it has been too long and people don't remember how bad it was und Jarvis and Norm.

As far as Lavin as a game coach, I'll reserve judgement after looking at his body of work. Over his career thus far it has been good. Armchair quarterbacks all have opinions, but without qualitating, it isnt worth much. Teams will have bad days though.

 

[monte]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Joe I can't find fault with Lavin as a recruiter. Harkless, Obekpa, Harrison and Sampson are all great talents. Most of the other kids are good talents(a few are great athletes) who should develop in to good-very good 4 year players. Considering what he inherited, he's done a phenomenal job recruiting. As for his game coaching, remember he did not come here with a reputation of being a very good game coach.

Lavin's rep as a game coach came from disgruntled ucla fans. His bad game coaching rep really isn't supported by the numbers at ucla.

I have a number of friends from the west coast who are not UCLA fans but who are big time college basketball fans and who have watched the program very closely for many years. None felt strongly about Lavin's game coaching abilities. Just saying.

People questionTom Coughlin as well...Bottom line, Lavin has been successful...and people forget we had our share of issues last year as well...we're a program on the come...that's all that counts

Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and am thrilled we have him heading up our program. But that's not the point. I was simply commenting on my feelings about him as a game coach. Feelings I've had from his days at UCLA. And I am not a disgruntled UCLA fan.

 

[MCNPA]

Did not see the Fordham game but, appears it was not a gem performance.

I'm wondering what the consensus of the Board is at this point in the season..

I'm beginning to think Harrison,Greene, Pointer, Garrett might have been overrated, despite being in the top 100.


Sampson, CO, appear to be the better players this year but are freshman and still adjusting.

It also looks like Lavin may be a super recruiter for good, not great talent and mediocre as a fundamental bench coach. The team so far, I think has been disappointing in losses to USF,BAYLOR, MURRAY STATE.

Even the wins, have not been impressive over HC, NJIT,FORDHAM, ETC.

The season in the BE will only get tougher.

While it's early, I think expectations were much higher than results so far.

Joe I can't find fault with Lavin as a recruiter. Harkless, Obekpa, Harrison and Sampson are all great talents. Most of the other kids are good talents(a few are great athletes) who should develop in to good-very good 4 year players. Considering what he inherited, he's done a phenomenal job recruiting. As for his game coaching, remember he did not come here with a reputation of being a very good game coach.

Lavin's rep as a game coach came from disgruntled ucla fans. His bad game coaching rep really isn't supported by the numbers at ucla.

I have a number of friends from the west coast who are not UCLA fans but who are big time college basketball fans and who have watched the program very closely for many years. None felt strongly about Lavin's game coaching abilities. Just saying.

People questionTom Coughlin as well...Bottom line, Lavin has been successful...and people forget we had our share of issues last year as well...we're a program on the come...that's all that counts

Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and am thrilled we have him heading up our program. But that's not the point. I was simply commenting on my feelings about him as a game coach. Feelings I've had from his days at UCLA. And I am not a disgruntled UCLA fan.

I think a lot of those feelings are based on a lot of innuendo going around at the time. I thought the same thing at the time because it seemed to be the going sentiment. Then I looked at his coaching numbers and was completely confused as to how a guy could be that successful and not be able to coach. It didn't make sense then and doesn't make sense now.

He was a young coach at the time, probably a little bit I'll-prepared for such a big job like UcLA. I have no doubt he made coaching mistakes. How many young coaches don't. He was then forever tagged as a bad game coach. I really think a lot of it was innuendo and carried far and wide. I don't think Lavin is John Beilein with X's and O's. If he can land talent like Boeheim, it doesn't matter. He just had to have s solid plan.