Rothstein in the house

[quote="Mike Zaun" post=295308]It's just kind of like Kate Upton coming up to you at the beach and asking if you want to go have fun somewhere. What's the first thing you do? You look around like "wtf is this a trap?". It's never that easy and that's why I can't totally be sold yet. When you root for so many bad teams that lure you back in only to rip your heart out time and time again, you have your reservations about allowing yourself to be fooled again. If Mullin won 19-20 games last year even if he narrowly missed the tourney, it would be much more realistic IMO to expect 24 or 25+ wins this coming season, but he has yet to even break even at .500 and we have been absolutely dreadful in conference play. If we win 24+ games, I might even pay to rent one of those big wooden cutouts where you put your face in and let you guys throw tomatoes at me. I'd be smiling the entire time too.[/quote]

Out of curiosity, did you watch all of the games last year? And if so, what did you think? Despite the record, the effort was there every single night. We were severely under manned and still hung with most teams. It's not like lost games because we had a horrible coach. Blame Mullin for us being under manned and even the make up of the roster , but he clearly got the most out of the talent he had. Oh and some kids even showed improvement.
 
[quote="Room112" post=295320][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295308]It's just kind of like Kate Upton coming up to you at the beach and asking if you want to go have fun somewhere. What's the first thing you do? You look around like "wtf is this a trap?". It's never that easy and that's why I can't totally be sold yet. When you root for so many bad teams that lure you back in only to rip your heart out time and time again, you have your reservations about allowing yourself to be fooled again. If Mullin won 19-20 games last year even if he narrowly missed the tourney, it would be much more realistic IMO to expect 24 or 25+ wins this coming season, but he has yet to even break even at .500 and we have been absolutely dreadful in conference play. If we win 24+ games, I might even pay to rent one of those big wooden cutouts where you put your face in and let you guys throw tomatoes at me. I'd be smiling the entire time too.[/quote]

Out of curiosity, did you watch all of the games last year? And if so, what did you think? Despite the record, the effort was there every single night. We were severely under manned and still hung with most teams. It's not like lost games because we had a horrible coach. Blame Mullin for us being under manned and even the make up of the roster , but he clearly got the most out of the talent he had. Oh and some kids even showed improvement.[/quote]

I watched closely, yes. We got off to a good start OOC and I was at the Nebraska game which was unreal...the atmosphere was insane. I remember driving home thinking "damn, maybe we really have a legit shot to make the tourney". Then the LoVett thing...of course that was a big blow, but there's no excuse for losing 11 straight. We lost lots of very tight games, yes. But a loss is a loss. A win is a win. I do give Mullin credit for instilling a fighting attitude where the team never gave up. Unlike Lavin teams, if we were down big early, you just felt we may have a comeback in us. Once we beat Duke and Nova I thought we finally were gelling, but then after that we ended on an underwhelming note and got absolutely shellacked by a Xavier team in the BET that got quickly knocked out of the NCAA's. I just have not seen any evidence that Mullin has what it takes to get us to that 24 win or more level. I think we win 20 including BET and make the NIT. But yes the talent is certainly there to win 24+ games. You guys have to remember that Mullin is on one of the hottest seats in the country in terms of major college hoops. National pundits all have him on their lists for the wrong reasons. Look at what objective people are saying, because if you get caught up in an echochamber it becomes very hard to get a real sense of where we are. If I'm betting my life, I'd probably say 18-21 wins tops even with Heron. The reason being that we never seem to totally live up to expectations. Remember, I've only followed closely since 2011, so beyond that season, the most wins I've seen is 21 in any given season. I hope we are safely in the tourney and get ranked so we can all laugh.
 
Mike Zaun wrote: If I'm betting my life, I'd probably say 18-21 wins tops even with Heron. The reason being that we never seem to totally live up to expectations. Remember, I've only followed closely since 2011, so beyond that season, the most wins I've seen is 21 in any given season. I hope we are safely in the tourney and get ranked so we can all laugh.

Remember those words. Really kind of silly imho. But it is just my opinion. With MH, we don't win less than 23 in the regular season
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=295327]Mike Zaun wrote: If I'm betting my life, I'd probably say 18-21 wins tops even with Heron. The reason being that we never seem to totally live up to expectations. Remember, I've only followed closely since 2011, so beyond that season, the most wins I've seen is 21 in any given season. I hope we are safely in the tourney and get ranked so we can all laugh.

Remember those words. Really kind of silly imho.[/quote]

I realize it's silly relative to our talent level. But at some point we have to prove we can run on all cylinders and I have not seen that yet as a St. John's fan. And I know we only take 1 season at a time, but it begs the question...even if we do well next year, aren't we practically out of time for major recruits? So if we are ranked #20 all year and make the Sweet 16, aren't we going to start from scratch again practically after losing Ponds, Heron, maybe Simon, Clark, etc.? Don't get me wrong, I'd still rather making the Sweet 16 next year even if it means not competing the following year, but seriously competing once every 5 years or so is not good. That means you have 2 good years every decade and 80% of the time is bad to mediocre. To win 24+ we will have to somehow avoid serious injuries to key players and Mullin will have to pull a rabbit out of his hat. It can be done, but my gut won't let me think it's likely.
 
I haven't crunched the Heron-less numbers, mostly because I'll be too busy crying to make a win prediction in that scenario.

But with Heron here for game 1, I have us with no less than 26 wins entering the Big Dance. I'm more concerned with Mullin having to teach Wright and Caraher how to cook than I am for him having to be the head chef over any lineup that has Ponds, Heron, and Simon out there at same time.

If everyone is here and healthy, and we win like 17 games, then I am more than fine with Mullin retiring or being forced into retirement.
 
Mike:

Two comments. It has been almost 20 years since we've made the sweet 16, so for most of us long suffering fans that alone would be a hugely satisfying accomplishment. Second, if we do that, it will be a huge bump for the program and recruiting, including keeping Simon if he doesn't have the type of year that allows him to go pro. Either way, a sweet 16 finish would be a huge plus for the program and end any discussion about Coach's job for a few years.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=295327]Mike Zaun wrote: If I'm betting my life, I'd probably say 18-21 wins tops even with Heron. The reason being that we never seem to totally live up to expectations. Remember, I've only followed closely since 2011, so beyond that season, the most wins I've seen is 21 in any given season. I hope we are safely in the tourney and get ranked so we can all laugh.

Remember those words. Really kind of silly imho. But it is just my opinion. With MH, we don't win less than 23 in the regular season[/quote]

There is no rational reason this team with Heron should win less than 23 games. That is my prediction.
Lavin won 20 and 21 games in his last two years with disfunctional talent. Given a weak OOC and less formidable Big East if we only won 18 games Paul may as well shut down this site for an extended period.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=295290][quote="Paultzman" post=295285][quote="mjmaherjr" post=295284][quote="Paultzman" post=295247]Two things that immediately jump out at St. John's? 1. Justin Simon is noticeably better shooting the ball 2. Marvin Clark is considerably leaner
#SJUBB
South Carolina transfer Sedee Keita shining here at St. John's with his ability to switch defensively. HAS to stay out of foul trouble. Should be an 8 and 8 guy. #SJUBB[/quote] i might get pissed over recruiting next year but the more and more I think about it if Heron plays I think we potentially could end up just wrecking teans[/quote]
Provided the chefs can prepare the meal, ingredients there with Heron for sure.[/quote] that’s the great thing about this year. All the ingredients are there. If they aren’t chefs this year than they will never be chefs but even pessimistic me thinks we are gonna wreck people. My 22 win prediction was. My pessimist side. I’m more in line with Olv72 and 24 wins #noexcuses[/quote]

Mike, I love you upbeat positive energy for SJU this year. I wish I could feel the same, but I can't.
I'm always feeling even if the have a good ooc schedule, and start 5-0 in the conf, that something will f it all up and the season will turn to s*. Why? Because something usually does happed.

I hope your right about this season, we all need a damn good season for a change.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=295319]Jarvis had his faults, but I have never seen an SJU team pass the ball in traffic better than that Elite 8 team; would go back to those days in a NY minute if possible.[/quote]

I agree that team played wonderful team basketball. But it had little to do with the Jarvis weave.

It was Barkley (who had a high basketball IQ), and the fact those kids played on the same summer leagues for years before college.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=295319]Jarvis had his faults, but I have never seen an SJU team pass the ball in traffic better than that Elite 8 team; would go back to those days in a NY minute if possible.[/quote]

Agreed. Mike Jarvis was a lot of things (most of them bad), but one of those things was a career basketball coach.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=295380][quote="NCJohnnie" post=295319]Jarvis had his faults, but I have never seen an SJU team pass the ball in traffic better than that Elite 8 team; would go back to those days in a NY minute if possible.[/quote]

Agreed. Mike Jarvis was a lot of things (most of them bad), but one of those things was a career basketball coach.[/quote]

Although I've tried to wipe out a lot of those memories, one enduring one is those damned cards that Junior held up with plays on them. With Jarvis, you ran the play as designed, or sat. I remember one painful exchange where he yanked a forward (King?), and then got in his face for a very long couple of minutes, and kept repeating nose to nose "Why did you shoot? Why did you shoot?" because apparently King took a 10 foot wide open shot from the baseline which missed and did not execute the play. King transferred at end of season.

Jarvis could definitely coach, and players HAD to play his way or else. Lots of credit for the passing goes to Artest, who I used to think of as our version of Magic Johnson - a guy who could do a bit of everything, rebound, defend, pass, handle the ball, steals, blocks, shoot, and score. Best player by far on that team, but incredibly unselfish as well, and it was contagious.
 
Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)
 
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Beast of the East wrote:
Although I've tried to wipe out a lot of those memories, one enduring one is those damned cards that Junior held up with plays on them. With Jarvis, you ran the play as designed, or sat. I remember one painful exchange where he yanked a forward (King?), and then got in his face for a very long couple of minutes, and kept repeating nose to nose "Why did you shoot? Why did you shoot?" because apparently King took a 10 foot wide open shot from the baseline which missed and did not execute the play. King transferred at end of season.

Jarvis could definitely coach, and players HAD to play his way or else. Lots of credit for the passing goes to Artest, who I used to think of as our version of Magic Johnson - a guy who could do a bit of everything, rebound, defend, pass, handle the ball, steals, blocks, shoot, and score. Best player by far on that team, but incredibly unselfish as well, and it was contagious

Artest was really terrific and the elite eight team was special and a real contender to win it all. I also agree that they moved the ball like no other St. John's team before or since. They were really fun to watch. I aslo think Reggie Jessie (a great passer) was instrumental in the unselfish ball movement approach that typified that group. Erick Barkley, Bootsy Thornton, Lavor Postell and Tyronne Grant all contributed significantly to that unselfish pass first approach and it all worked beautifully. Jarvis coached that group really well and much of that style carried over the following year after Artest and Grant left. However after that Jarvis never had another team that played that share the ball movement style that was so much fun to watch and worked so well. He found other ways to get some wins (mostly due to the brilliant play of Marcus Hatten and a grind it out physical defense) but one wonders how much of that exciting style that occurred during the Artest, Barkley, Thornton, Postell, Grant and Jessie teams was talent driven as opposed to a Jarvis coaching philosophy.
 
[quote="ghostzapper" post=295408]Beast of the East wrote:
Although I've tried to wipe out a lot of those memories, one enduring one is those damned cards that Junior held up with plays on them. With Jarvis, you ran the play as designed, or sat. I remember one painful exchange where he yanked a forward (King?), and then got in his face for a very long couple of minutes, and kept repeating nose to nose "Why did you shoot? Why did you shoot?" because apparently King took a 10 foot wide open shot from the baseline which missed and did not execute the play. King transferred at end of season.

Jarvis could definitely coach, and players HAD to play his way or else. Lots of credit for the passing goes to Artest, who I used to think of as our version of Magic Johnson - a guy who could do a bit of everything, rebound, defend, pass, handle the ball, steals, blocks, shoot, and score. Best player by far on that team, but incredibly unselfish as well, and it was contagious

Artest was really terrific and the elite eight team was special and a real contender to win it all. I also agree that they moved the ball like no other St. John's team before or since. They were really fun to watch. I aslo think Reggie Jessie (a great passer) was instrumental in the unselfish ball movement approach that typified that group. Erick Barkley, Bootsy Thornton, Lavor Postell and Tyronne Grant all contributed significantly to that unselfish pass first approach and it all worked beautifully. Jarvis coached that group really well and much of that style carried over the following year after Artest and Grant left. However after that Jarvis never had another team that played that share the ball movement style that was so much fun to watch and worked so well. He found other ways to get some wins (mostly due to the brilliant play of Marcus Hatten and a grind it out physical defense) but one wonders how much of that exciting style that occurred during the Artest, Barkley, Thornton, Postell, Grant and Jessie teams was talent driven as opposed to a Jarvis coaching philosophy.[/quote]

Agree on all accounts, but for some reason don't have strong recollections of Jessie, but not disputing other's impressions here. Was a really fun team to watch and root for, and I was stunned when I got home late and saw Artest in the tank for the 1st half of the elite eight game that they lost to Ohio State.

I propose Mullin augment his staff with Norm as #2 recruiter, Jarvis as Associate HC, and Fran Fraschilla as #3 recruiter and player development coach.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy.

I get it things have not gone great. But they have not been great for a sustainable amount of time since Louie left. And NO ONE on here has liked any coach for more than a year since Louie left outside of Norm for reasons that still astound and baffle me.
 
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[quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 old's and what comes along with recruiting 'em, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=295514][quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 year old's per recruiting, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.[/quote]

You know the difference.
Maybe he didn't realize what recruiting would take to get HS kids to come here for 1 year. That might be true, which would explain the over reliance on transfers.
My only argument was he did not come here to be lazy and collect a check while tarnishing his legacy.
BTW people on here used laziness as the main complaint about Lavin at the end.
Maybe it is just not easy to recruit here? Based off of the history here as the landscape of recruiting has changed that would be my hypothesis.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295517][quote="MJDinkins" post=295514][quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 year old's per recruiting, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.[/quote]

You know the difference.
Maybe he didn't realize what recruiting would take to get HS kids to come here for 1 year. That might be true, which would explain the over reliance on transfers.
My only argument was he did not come here to be lazy and collect a check while tarnishing his legacy.
BTW people on here used laziness as the main complaint about Lavin at the end.
Maybe it is just not easy to recruit here? Based off of the history here as the landscape of recruiting has changed that would be my hypothesis.[/quote]

Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.
 
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