Rothstein in the house

[quote="MJDinkins" post=295519][quote="we are sju" post=295517][quote="MJDinkins" post=295514][quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 year old's per recruiting, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.[/quote]

You know the difference.
Maybe he didn't realize what recruiting would take to get HS kids to come here for 1 year. That might be true, which would explain the over reliance on transfers.
My only argument was he did not come here to be lazy and collect a check while tarnishing his legacy.
BTW people on here used laziness as the main complaint about Lavin at the end.
Maybe it is just not easy to recruit here? Based off of the history here as the landscape of recruiting has changed that would be my hypothesis.[/quote]

Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519][quote="we are sju" post=295517][quote="MJDinkins" post=295514][quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 year old's per recruiting, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.[/quote]

You know the difference.
Maybe he didn't realize what recruiting would take to get HS kids to come here for 1 year. That might be true, which would explain the over reliance on transfers.
My only argument was he did not come here to be lazy and collect a check while tarnishing his legacy.
BTW people on here used laziness as the main complaint about Lavin at the end.
Maybe it is just not easy to recruit here? Based off of the history here as the landscape of recruiting has changed that would be my hypothesis.[/quote]

Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Let me take this on course, but expand on something you said. Lavin, for his part, did really one thing no one thought was possible after the NR years - bring in NBA level (Harkless and Sampson) and near NBA level (Harrison, Pointer, Obekpa, maybe even Greene) talent almost immediately building on nothing. He is perhaps the best recruiter we've had here in quite some time, save perhaps that if he was a dynamo in terms of effort, he could have built a powerhouse, instead of not completely filling a roster, depth, etc.

As a result, you give Lavin maybe a grade of 7 as a recruiter. I don't think ANYONE, or almost anyone could have come here after the NR years and got us back to respectability so quickly, but sadly we got stuck in near NCAA miss teams and the cupboard was definitely bare when he departed.

Compare that to Mullin, and I don't think Chris has Lavin's gift of charisma, but I do think overall Matt&Chris have brought in more talent across the roster than Lavin did. Our Lavin seasons were always one injury away from wrecked season - if you recall, during his last season Harrison was nominated for the Wooden before his injury and before the injury people were beginning to speak of SJU as a dark horse final four possibility. This year's squad should have 9 or 10, maybe even 11 players capable of contributing, which hasn't happened here in forever. Think of it this way - this season (with Heron), we are just one 5* player away from being talked about as a top 10 sort of team. That in itself is pretty amazing.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519]Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Funny, as someone once mentioned to me they thought it was arrogance. Who knows?! I do know what I was told, and a few other posters are aware of it.

The next potential candidate doesn't necessarily has to go out and recruit "under the radar" kids. Doing that from time to time, if you know what you're doing, can reap the benefits. I've been following the program since 1984, and outside of Norm Roberts, and now the current staff, we could always land top 50 kids on a consistent basis. That was never an issue, and it shouldn't be now.

As, far as recruiting kids no coach won't ever be able to get.... You always recruit those type of kid, if you think you have a shot. Especially, if they're in your backyard. You recruit those kids till you feel or know there isn't any shot of landing 'em. Just don't waste too much time and resources, but you always target or go after those types when you feel there's an opportunity.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=295522][quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519]Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Funny, as someone once mentioned to me they thought it was arrogance. Who knows?! I do know what I was told, and a few other posters are aware of it.

The next potential candidate doesn't necessarily has to go out and recruit "under the radar" kids. Doing that from time to time, if you know what you're doing, can reap the benefits. I've been following the program since 1984, and outside of Norm Roberts, and now the current staff, we could always land top 50 kids on a consistent basis. That was never an issue, and it shouldn't be now.

As, far as recruiting kids no coach won't ever be able to get.... You always recruit those type of kid, if you think you have a shot. Especially, if they're in your backyard. You recruit those kids till you feel or know there isn't any shot of landing 'em. Just don't waste too much time and resources, but you always target or go after those types when you feel there's an opportunity.[/quote]

Lavin's first class was an outlier. Outside of that one incredible class half of which was ineligible that first year we have not recruited top tier HS talent for the better part of 15 years.
 
At last, my doctoral dissertation comes to Redmen.com.

Weiner holds that causal beliefs and the assignment of responsibility generate feelings of anger and sympathy, which in turn, direct social conduct toward others. Weiner draws a comparison between achievement evaluation and stigmatization. In his model, the student who does not do well because of lack of talent, i.e. is not responsible for not doing well, arouses sympathy in others whereas the student who does not do well because of lack of effort, is responsible for not doing well, evokes anger.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295525][quote="MJDinkins" post=295522][quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519]Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Funny, as someone once mentioned to me they thought it was arrogance. Who knows?! I do know what I was told, and a few other posters are aware of it.

The next potential candidate doesn't necessarily has to go out and recruit "under the radar" kids. Doing that from time to time, if you know what you're doing, can reap the benefits. I've been following the program since 1984, and outside of Norm Roberts, and now the current staff, we could always land top 50 kids on a consistent basis. That was never an issue, and it shouldn't be now.

As, far as recruiting kids no coach won't ever be able to get.... You always recruit those type of kid, if you think you have a shot. Especially, if they're in your backyard. You recruit those kids till you feel or know there isn't any shot of landing 'em. Just don't waste too much time and resources, but you always target or go after those types when you feel there's an opportunity.[/quote]

Lavin's first class was an outlier. Outside of that one incredible class half of which was ineligible that first year we have not recruited top tier HS talent for the better part of 15 years.[/quote]

Outside of Lavin's first season (when he didn't have a chance at a full recruiting cycle) and his last season, he brought in a top 50 player every season he was at St. John's. Like I stated above, we could consistently land top 50 kids since I've been a fan outside of Roberts and the current staff.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=295533][quote="we are sju" post=295525][quote="MJDinkins" post=295522][quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519]Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Funny, as someone once mentioned to me they thought it was arrogance. Who knows?! I do know what I was told, and a few other posters are aware of it.

The next potential candidate doesn't necessarily has to go out and recruit "under the radar" kids. Doing that from time to time, if you know what you're doing, can reap the benefits. I've been following the program since 1984, and outside of Norm Roberts, and now the current staff, we could always land top 50 kids on a consistent basis. That was never an issue, and it shouldn't be now.

As, far as recruiting kids no coach won't ever be able to get.... You always recruit those type of kid, if you think you have a shot. Especially, if they're in your backyard. You recruit those kids till you feel or know there isn't any shot of landing 'em. Just don't waste too much time and resources, but you always target or go after those types when you feel there's an opportunity.[/quote]

Lavin's first class was an outlier. Outside of that one incredible class half of which was ineligible that first year we have not recruited top tier HS talent for the better part of 15 years.[/quote]

Outside of Lavin's first season (when he didn't have a chance at a full recruiting cycle) and his last season, he brought in a top 50 player every season he was at St. John's. Like I stated above, we could consistently land top 50 kids since I've been a fan outside of Roberts and the current staff.[/quote]

Outside of Mullin's first year when he was left a mess, he has brought in a top 50 kid every year but one(Ponds, Simon, Heron);)

And for the record I did not hate Lavin. I thought he did an acceptable job. Most on here hated him though and I do feel it would have ended ugly.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=295514][quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 old's and what comes along with recruiting 'em, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.[/quote]

I concede that I’m confused about CM’s head coaching ‘behavior’. Away from personal / family issues I’m not privy too, he does not seem as fully committed as the likes of Mack, Hurley, Wright, Cooley, Wojo, Steele, et al., and I do not ‘get’ why.
Including continuing to operate with just 1 primary recruiter.
It runs against both what Mullin was as a great college player and an NBA HOFer and what he said at his intro PC.
I hope he is mature and wise enough to see that his program is running half-gassed.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295535][quote="MJDinkins" post=295533][quote="we are sju" post=295525][quote="MJDinkins" post=295522][quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519]Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Funny, as someone once mentioned to me they thought it was arrogance. Who knows?! I do know what I was told, and a few other posters are aware of it.

The next potential candidate doesn't necessarily has to go out and recruit "under the radar" kids. Doing that from time to time, if you know what you're doing, can reap the benefits. I've been following the program since 1984, and outside of Norm Roberts, and now the current staff, we could always land top 50 kids on a consistent basis. That was never an issue, and it shouldn't be now.

As, far as recruiting kids no coach won't ever be able to get.... You always recruit those type of kid, if you think you have a shot. Especially, if they're in your backyard. You recruit those kids till you feel or know there isn't any shot of landing 'em. Just don't waste too much time and resources, but you always target or go after those types when you feel there's an opportunity.[/quote]

Lavin's first class was an outlier. Outside of that one incredible class half of which was ineligible that first year we have not recruited top tier HS talent for the better part of 15 years.[/quote]

Outside of Lavin's first season (when he didn't have a chance at a full recruiting cycle) and his last season, he brought in a top 50 player every season he was at St. John's. Like I stated above, we could consistently land top 50 kids since I've been a fan outside of Roberts and the current staff.[/quote]

Outside of Mullin's first year when he was left a mess, he has brought in a top 50 kid every year but one(Ponds, Simon, Heron);)

And for the record I did not hate Lavin. I thought he did an acceptable job. Most on here hated him though and I do feel it would have ended ugly.[/quote]

High school recruits, dude.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519][quote="we are sju" post=295517][quote="MJDinkins" post=295514][quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 year old's per recruiting, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.[/quote]

You know the difference.
Maybe he didn't realize what recruiting would take to get HS kids to come here for 1 year. That might be true, which would explain the over reliance on transfers.
My only argument was he did not come here to be lazy and collect a check while tarnishing his legacy.
BTW people on here used laziness as the main complaint about Lavin at the end.
Maybe it is just not easy to recruit here? Based off of the history here as the landscape of recruiting has changed that would be my hypothesis.[/quote]

Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Others have said that and I think you may have ‘hit’ on it, we are sju. I recall his pursuing Cheick Diallo and Brandon Sampson—hanging plums from Lavin’s efforts—that first year. He whiffed on both. I’ve often wondered since, if that was ‘it’ for this proud basketball legend, to submit himself to being rejected by 17/18 year-old kids?
As the years pass, and Chris’ recruiting efforts seem half-hearted, that notion gains credence...to me.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=295540][quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519][quote="we are sju" post=295517][quote="MJDinkins" post=295514][quote="we are sju" post=295511][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295462][quote="we are sju" post=295406][quote="Mike Zaun" post=295402]Not saying we will make the Sweet 16 or that if we did it wouldn't be time to pop champagne on here. I would be ecstatic right next to the rest of you. But my point was that the way things are playing out, we have no true impact recruits coming for 2019 and even if we have a great season, we could easily be back in the 8-10 hole in conference the following year because of it. I just want some continuity with the program but of course first we have to win again. There seems to be a glass ceiling of 21 wins for the program overall and 10-8 in conference. We need to shatter that. Still hoping we have a great season, but not sure Mullin will want to stay regardless.[/quote]

I am pretty sure you have zero insight on anything Chris Mullin may or may not want to do about anything. But feel free to let us know what he is planning on having for lunch today as at least that would be something different.
BTW my sources have told me he is going to have a Kale salad. But not sure how reliable the sources are regarding Chris Mullin's lunch plans as it is only 8:43 in Cali right now ;)[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you not see the "not sure" part of my post? You realize not everything has to come directly from Mullin's mouth to be a possibility, right? Even then, he would never admit anything like that publicly. Same with Matt. This isn't just throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Many others also question whether or not he's in it for the long haul win or lose. If we have a terrible year I'd bet money that he resigns. If we have a great year, he may still say "ok I got the program back to being good, someone take over now". He barely even recruits or spends time in NY, so how truly committed can he be? This is by no means crazy.[/quote]

Ok all joking aside.
Is Chris Mullin a good college coach? Based off his record so far no.
Does Chris Mullin an NBA Hall of Famer have the stomach to deal with 17/18 year old kids egos, crazy parents, handlers, AAU coaches, etc? Maybe not.

Did Chris Mullin who became a top 50 NBA all time player, Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist, NBA Hall of Famer, NBA All Star, BE player of the year, College player of the year and the greatest player in ST John's sports history based totally on hard work and effort suddenly take a job at the place that helped make him and all of a sudden decided to mail it in and then quit? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I will continue to mock anyone who perpetuates that fallacy. [/quote]

You just made an assumption, and spoke in absolutes, by stating he hasn't or won't mail it in based on his playing career. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not exactly relevant and in many ways begs the question which makes your argument a fallacy.

Besides, if you think he doesn't have the stomach to deal with 17 and 18 year old's per recruiting, then perceptional it already seems like he's mailing it in.[/quote]

You know the difference.
Maybe he didn't realize what recruiting would take to get HS kids to come here for 1 year. That might be true, which would explain the over reliance on transfers.
My only argument was he did not come here to be lazy and collect a check while tarnishing his legacy.
BTW people on here used laziness as the main complaint about Lavin at the end.
Maybe it is just not easy to recruit here? Based off of the history here as the landscape of recruiting has changed that would be my hypothesis.[/quote]

Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Others have said that and I think you may have ‘hit’ on it, we are sju. I recall his pursuing Cheick Diallo and Brandon Sampson—hanging plums from Lavin’s efforts—that first year. He whiffed on both. I’ve often wondered since, if that was ‘it’ for this proud basketball legend, to submit himself to being rejected by 17/18 year-old kids?
As the years pass, and Chris’ recruiting efforts seem half-hearted, that notion gains credence...to me.[/quote]

Lavin received a commitment from Brandon Sampson in January of 2015.
 
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For the love of God please disable the quote function Paul! My finger is in spasm! Does anyone really think we re-read the last ten posts we just read? Just post your new post we get it is and on going discussion.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=295547]For the love of God please disable the quote function Paul! My finger is in spasm! Does anyone really think we re-read the last ten posts we just read? Just post your new post we get it is and on going discussion.[/quote]

The quote function is important I feel. For whatever reason as its currently on the site is an issue. It's been in existence for years and never was it an issue. Not sure if its the size of the boxes or text or what.
 
[quote="Moose" post=295554][quote="bamafan" post=295547]For the love of God please disable the quote function Paul! My finger is in spasm! Does anyone really think we re-read the last ten posts we just read? Just post your new post we get it is and on going discussion.[/quote]

The quote function is important I feel. For whatever reason as its currently on the site is an issue. It's been in existence for years and never was it an issue. Not sure if its the size of the boxes or text or what.[/quote]
It’s really only a problem on my phone, seems to just be a little scrolling in order to get to the latest post on other devices.
 
[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=295558][quote="Moose" post=295554][quote="bamafan" post=295547]For the love of God please disable the quote function Paul! My finger is in spasm! Does anyone really think we re-read the last ten posts we just read? Just post your new post we get it is and on going discussion.[/quote]

The quote function is important I feel. For whatever reason as its currently on the site is an issue. It's been in existence for years and never was it an issue. Not sure if its the size of the boxes or text or what.[/quote]
It’s really only a problem on my phone, seems to just be a little scrolling in order to get to the latest post on other devices.[/quote]
On my phone, it gets to the point where I see a single column of individual characters. Maybe change the styling of the left margin line so that there’s less space between it and the start of the text.
 
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Bamafan is referring to the practice of responding to a post by first copying and pasting that post (which sometimes already includes prior posts) and reposting with the response. Many of us are guilty of it to varying degrees. I've tried to eliminate or cut back on the reposting as Bamafan and others have pointed this out before, but at times it is necessary to make it clear which post you are disagreeing or agreeing with. The other extreme is responding to a post that is a couple of pages back with no context given as to which post you are commenting on.
 
I like the quote button but yeah it can get hard reading sometimes but overall I’d rather have it. I don’t know if it’s oossible but what would make it easier to read is if all the quotes stuck in the post except for the most recent post were in a shade of gray or something that way you could skip all the colored part and scroll right down to the most recent comment by that particular poster
 
[quote="we are sju" post=295535]

Outside of Mullin's first year when he was left a mess, he has brought in a top 50 kid every year but one(Ponds, Simon, Heron);)

And for the record I did not hate Lavin. I thought he did an acceptable job. Most on here hated him though and I do feel it would have ended ugly.[/quote]

It did end ugly IMHO.
 
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[quote="we are sju" post=295525]

Lavin's first class was an outlier. Outside of that one incredible class half of which was ineligible that first year we have not recruited top tier HS talent for the better part of 15 years.[/quote]

Well he did sign, or in the case of Sampson (Brandon variety) get commitments, from one top 75 player (per scout) three of the four classes following the what you're calling his first class (Dwayne Polee is hurt).. What he didn't do is recruit ENOUGH players, I'm with you there. FWIW I would call Lavin lazy before I'd call Mullin. Lavin knew what it took to do the job, he'd worked for guys that did the job, he had the job, but after the cancer/Cap's death/other issues he seemed to lose the drive. Is that laziness, probably a form of it. Mullin it seems really didn't know what he was getting into since he had zero experience, and his primary source of information (Slice) proved to be worthless, so naturally it was going to take him more time to find his way. Being a superstar certainly might make that a humbling experience. I still hope for better from him but as you know my confidence is not high for the long term. But this year I'm all in. More than 20 wins for sure. ;)
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=295538][quote="we are sju" post=295535][quote="MJDinkins" post=295533][quote="we are sju" post=295525][quote="MJDinkins" post=295522][quote="we are sju" post=295520][quote="MJDinkins" post=295519]Maybe, it isn't exactly a walk in the park to recruit at St. John's. I mentioned this before, and I believe this person's info (I heard this about 1 1/2 to two years ago).... The overall effort towards recruiting was blase'.[/quote]

Maybe arrogance. I am Chris Mullin I am not begging some HS kid to come here for a year.
But again Steve Lavin seemed to lose interest in recruiting especially locally.
I will say when Mullin does leave I do think you need a grinder who will try to work for under the radar guys. But would the fan base accept a lesser known name at this point? Would the admin move on from sting of Mullin not working out by hiring an unknown?
And it seems that the fan base wants us to recruit kids that no coach who comes here will be able to get.[/quote]

Funny, as someone once mentioned to me they thought it was arrogance. Who knows?! I do know what I was told, and a few other posters are aware of it.

The next potential candidate doesn't necessarily has to go out and recruit "under the radar" kids. Doing that from time to time, if you know what you're doing, can reap the benefits. I've been following the program since 1984, and outside of Norm Roberts, and now the current staff, we could always land top 50 kids on a consistent basis. That was never an issue, and it shouldn't be now.

As, far as recruiting kids no coach won't ever be able to get.... You always recruit those type of kid, if you think you have a shot. Especially, if they're in your backyard. You recruit those kids till you feel or know there isn't any shot of landing 'em. Just don't waste too much time and resources, but you always target or go after those types when you feel there's an opportunity.[/quote]

Lavin's first class was an outlier. Outside of that one incredible class half of which was ineligible that first year we have not recruited top tier HS talent for the better part of 15 years.[/quote]

Outside of Lavin's first season (when he didn't have a chance at a full recruiting cycle) and his last season, he brought in a top 50 player every season he was at St. John's. Like I stated above, we could consistently land top 50 kids since I've been a fan outside of Roberts and the current staff.[/quote]

Outside of Mullin's first year when he was left a mess, he has brought in a top 50 kid every year but one(Ponds, Simon, Heron);)

And for the record I did not hate Lavin. I thought he did an acceptable job. Most on here hated him though and I do feel it would have ended ugly.[/quote]

High school recruits, dude.[/quote]

What are those?
 
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