Roster Turnover

[room112]

Can we change this thread title to "ranting and raving". Man these posts are tough to read. Just looking for transfer news. 

 

[mjmaherjr]

This is my last post regarding any of this bickering and complaining. 

1) these are the rules the NCAA put out. Don’t blame Anderson. There are more than 1000 players in the portal already. If you average that out to every Division I program that’s still damn near 4 players per program. 

2) it’s April 2nd for Christ’s sake. April 2nd. The National Championship hasn’t even been decided yet. 

3) you’re all supposedly grown men who have supported this program in one way or the other for decades no? This is the kinda stuff that really pisses you off? There have been many, much worse things that have happened than a few kids transferring (especially when there is a one-time rule allowing them to do so scot-free). 

4) this dude, the coach. You all loved him 2 weeks ago. All of a sudden he’s a turd? That’s it? Every program in the country is losing, on average, 4 players and this is all on him? Hilarious, considering he was the cat’s pajamas 2 weeks ago. 

5) a lot of you pushing some narrative the media is “destroying” us in the press. Uh, that’s mostly you. On this board. Pot meet kettle. 

6) you all would have been lovely when the Revolutionary War or WWII started. We would have surrendered after the first week. Grow a pair. There’s bigger problems then your favorite basketball team losing 8 guys to the dreaded portal. 

7) these kids have just gone through a major pandemic where they have been locked down for a full year. As Ghostzapper so astutely pointed out, a lot of them could think transferring closer to home (or further away from it) could be comforting to them at what is probably the most stressful days of their lives. Wheeler said flat out he wants to be closer to home. 

Need I go on? I could you know. 

 

[Jack Williams]

If I remember correctly this years record was 16-11 NOT 16-15! That is a fine improvement over 2020,62%  vs 52% winning percentage.It probably would have been a 4 -5 win increase based on full season!No reason why that can’t be improved upon again next year, even if Julian defects. I’d still bet on CMA and his system! 

I’m not talking about this season.

im saying, there better not be fans who would be happy if we go 16-15 in the future just because it preserves some streak. F the streak if we aren’t making NCAA Tournaments 

Why are you losing your mind about what other fans think about the streak?  
You talk about its all about making NCAA Tournaments but then incessantly complain about a bunch of non-making tournament players moving on, BTW most who contributed very little to this team.

If your goal is to make tournaments then you should be happy that this staff has a chance to bring in better talent than the ones that have been here the last 2 years and did not achieve your said objective.

I for one, believe all of the players that left can be replaced or improved upon - with exception of Champ.  
Let's see who's on this team come October and then we can all lose our collective shat if need be!

 

No ones losing their minds. I’m just saying, the streak shouldn’t be anyone’s concern. It’s meaningless. It’s a cool accolade for coach to point to but fans of St. John’s should want more. 

as for your comment about us losing “non tournament making players don’t contribute much” 

I disagree. We lost players who contributed a lot to our team and were seemingly building towards making the tournament. Now we have to restart the roster construction. The attempts to try and make this mass exodus seem insignificant is a little intellectually lazy 

 

[MCNPA]

Why don’t we all keep this thread to transfer prospects!!  I keep looking here and constant bickering.  I think maybe we all reel it in?

 

[Moose]

I do agree that most of our transfers are reasonably easy to replace.  The exceptions are........

Moore -Unique talent, but had to go.  I can live with him leaving.

Earlington  -Definitely a loss and I hate that we don't have him for his senior year.  I thought he might transfer last year and I do understand him wanting more playing time.

Williams  -This is the one that makes me wonder.  Considering who he is on and off the court, we have to retain this type of kid.  I have a theory why he left and I do see CMA as responsible. 

So....I get that it is a crazy transfer year, but we lost one too many.  Greg was the red line for me.  I love CMA and have confidence we will remain competitive, but I also hope this was a learning lesson.  

You are right.  Those are the only transfers people should be rightfully upset about.  However 2 weren't CMA kids so that should temper things IMO.  I could toss in Cole only because it was a CMA transfer where he clearly struck out on the two JUCO's.

What's your theory on Williams?

I think personally at the end of games who was on the floor.  It was Wusu.  Was it a mix of Greg being hurt and CMA want to put his guy in Wusu into the fire and see how he handled it?  I think Greg saw the writing on the wall that freshman become Sophomores and Wusu would play as much if not more.  And I like Greg.  He impressed the heck out of me shooting the ball last year after he finished his previous year on that hot streak.

You pretty much nailed my theory on Williams.  Although, it wasn't just that Wusu was on the floor at end of games. CMA was actually calling final possession plays for him.  I figure Greg felt that he was the upperclassmen, just as able to get to the basket, and a better free throw shooter.  And....he's not wrong. 

Bottom line, CMA picked Wusu as his boy.  I think that was a mistake, but hopefully I am wrong.  As I said in an early post, Wusu is going to have to shoot the ball much better or we need to land a player that will.  Otherwise, CMA may have bet on the wrong kid.   Would have been nothing wrong with having Wusu wait his turn to be a final possession type guy.

I was going to compare Greg's first year to Wusu's but that might not be fair in terms of minutes played.

If you look at Greg's soph year to Wusu last year they are pretty much the same.  Greg shot better from 3 and we know he had that torrid stretch the end of his 2nd year that carried into this past year.

 

[lawmanfan]

OK:  This thread is now the place for the bickering, whining, infighting, name-calling, gnashing of the teeth, rending of the garments and the occasional rational commentary about the nature of our roster turnover.  That way the SJU Targets thread can go back to its original purpose.

 

[gman]

I agree with Marcus. This thread is out of hand. Enough if the bickering. This thread is to discuss names being mentioned as transfer. Off topic posts will be removed. 

 

[Moose]

Florida and Mike White have lost 6 players over the last two weeks. So it’s happening in a lot of places. 

And they made the tournament.  That's a worse optic in my eyes.
As much as Greg and Marcellus were good soldiers we didn't win with them here.  They want to leave and I support that.  And of course I hope CMA brings in kids that he feels can elevate us further.

 

[MCNPA]

This one belongs on this thread... Tweet from D’Lo!  Nuff said... get me more killers like this!  I want kids that want to be here...

“Wouldn’t have changed it for anything simple enough ? I love @StJohnsBBall @StJohnsU place that welcomed me and allowed me to showcase my talents but to answer naw I wouldn’t have transferred I am to solid!! @SteveLavin64”

 

[MainMan]

This one belongs on this thread... Tweet from D’Lo!  Nuff said... get me more killers like this!  I want kids that want to be here...

“Wouldn’t have changed it for anything simple enough ? I love @StJohnsBBall @StJohnsU place that welcomed me and allowed me to showcase my talents but to answer naw I wouldn’t have transferred I am to solid!! @SteveLavin64”

I want D'Lo and Felipe as brand ambassadors one of these days.

 

[bamafan]

This is my last post regarding any of this bickering and complaining. 

1) these are the rules the NCAA put out. Don’t blame Anderson. There are more than 1000 players in the portal already. If you average that out to every Division I program that’s still damn near 4 players per program. 

2) it’s April 2nd for Christ’s sake. April 2nd. The National Championship hasn’t even been decided yet. 

3) you’re all supposedly grown men who have supported this program in one way or the other for decades no? This is the kinda stuff that really pisses you off? There have been many, much worse things that have happened than a few kids transferring (especially when there is a one-time rule allowing them to do so scot-free). 

4) this dude, the coach. You all loved him 2 weeks ago. All of a sudden he’s a turd? That’s it? Every program in the country is losing, on average, 4 players and this is all on him? Hilarious, considering he was the cat’s pajamas 2 weeks ago. 

5) a lot of you pushing some narrative the media is “destroying” us in the press. Uh, that’s mostly you. On this board. Pot meet kettle. 

6) you all would have been lovely when the Revolutionary War or WWII started. We would have surrendered after the first week. Grow a pair. There’s bigger problems then your favorite basketball team losing 8 guys to the dreaded portal. 

7) these kids have just gone through a major pandemic where they have been locked down for a full year. As Ghostzapper so astutely pointed out, a lot of them could think transferring closer to home (or further away from it) could be comforting to them at what is probably the most stressful days of their lives. Wheeler said flat out he wants to be closer to home. 

Need I go on? I could you know. 


 

Don't see many people blaming CMA just unhappy with the situation. 8-9 players leaving our team and on a fan board we can't give opinions? Just hope those saying it's no big deal don't use the excuse next year that well we are trying to integrate basically a whole new team. No excuses. I still like and support CMA fully and without question but that doesn't mean some of his decisions are beyond questioning for example bringing in too many players that ended up wanting to transfer out. He signed Moore and Cole during early signing period, he brought in Toro and then extolled his virtues preseason and then he contributed very little.

 

[monte]

This is my last post regarding any of this bickering and complaining. 

1) these are the rules the NCAA put out. Don’t blame Anderson. There are more than 1000 players in the portal already. If you average that out to every Division I program that’s still damn near 4 players per program. 

2) it’s April 2nd for Christ’s sake. April 2nd. The National Championship hasn’t even been decided yet. 

3) you’re all supposedly grown men who have supported this program in one way or the other for decades no? This is the kinda stuff that really pisses you off? There have been many, much worse things that have happened than a few kids transferring (especially when there is a one-time rule allowing them to do so scot-free). 

4) this dude, the coach. You all loved him 2 weeks ago. All of a sudden he’s a turd? That’s it? Every program in the country is losing, on average, 4 players and this is all on him? Hilarious, considering he was the cat’s pajamas 2 weeks ago. 

5) a lot of you pushing some narrative the media is “destroying” us in the press. Uh, that’s mostly you. On this board. Pot meet kettle. 

6) you all would have been lovely when the Revolutionary War or WWII started. We would have surrendered after the first week. Grow a pair. There’s bigger problems then your favorite basketball team losing 8 guys to the dreaded portal. 

7) these kids have just gone through a major pandemic where they have been locked down for a full year. As Ghostzapper so astutely pointed out, a lot of them could think transferring closer to home (or further away from it) could be comforting to them at what is probably the most stressful days of their lives. Wheeler said flat out he wants to be closer to home. 

Need I go on? I could you know. 



 

Don't see many people blaming CMA just unhappy with the situation. 8-9 players leaving our team and on a fan board we can't give opinions? Just hope those saying it's no big deal don't use the excuse next year that well we are trying to integrate basically a whole new team. No excuses. I still like and support CMA fully and without question but that doesn't mean some of his decisions are beyond questioning for example bringing in too many players that ended up wanting to transfer out. He signed Moore and Cole during early signing period, he brought in Toro and then extolled his virtues preseason and then he contributed very little.

Well said BF. 
 

 

[Alex9045]

Wusu will be a better AND healthier player than Williams when all is said and done. You guys are sleeping on him. He has the intangibles to become a good player. The NYC kids were the best players on the team and/or had CMA's confidence. Hence why we saw Posh, Champ, Wusu, and Dunn late in games. It's clear all the seniors saw the writing on the wall. They've been practicing against our remaining players all season. I will note, I don't think a healthy Williams would be in the transfer portal.

 

[IDRAFT]

This is my last post regarding any of this bickering and complaining. 

1) these are the rules the NCAA put out. Don’t blame Anderson. There are more than 1000 players in the portal already. If you average that out to every Division I program that’s still damn near 4 players per program. 

2) it’s April 2nd for Christ’s sake. April 2nd. The National Championship hasn’t even been decided yet. 

3) you’re all supposedly grown men who have supported this program in one way or the other for decades no? This is the kinda stuff that really pisses you off? There have been many, much worse things that have happened than a few kids transferring (especially when there is a one-time rule allowing them to do so scot-free). 

4) this dude, the coach. You all loved him 2 weeks ago. All of a sudden he’s a turd? That’s it? Every program in the country is losing, on average, 4 players and this is all on him? Hilarious, considering he was the cat’s pajamas 2 weeks ago. 

5) a lot of you pushing some narrative the media is “destroying” us in the press. Uh, that’s mostly you. On this board. Pot meet kettle. 

6) you all would have been lovely when the Revolutionary War or WWII started. We would have surrendered after the first week. Grow a pair. There’s bigger problems then your favorite basketball team losing 8 guys to the dreaded portal. 

7) these kids have just gone through a major pandemic where they have been locked down for a full year. As Ghostzapper so astutely pointed out, a lot of them could think transferring closer to home (or further away from it) could be comforting to them at what is probably the most stressful days of their lives. Wheeler said flat out he wants to be closer to home. 

Need I go on? I could you know. 

Ghostzapper also astutely pointed out he doesn't like any of it. I have no beef with him, and I thought he wrote a well thought out post - but it seems odd to use it as an example. 

As for some of the rest of us - please tell us in the future what we can discuss? Transfers out are off the board. Okay. What about recruiting? What about the games? I'm sorry for all the questions, but I agree there are more important things in the world than college basketball and that's the standard you are setting. So maybe we shut down this board? 

Or maybe everyone could allow others to post their own opinions? This is my second post today about this but I'm finding it all very baffling. Some are into blind loyalty, others analyze things. The analytical of us offer our opinions - good and bad. We are often wrong, no doubt, but we enjoy doing the analysis. It's how we are wired. Some people are sheep. Some are not. It's a big world.

I don't understand why being an analytical person would make anyone less of a man, yet that seems to keep coming into it. 

I will have to analyze that some. Oh no - there I go again!

 

 

[monte]

This one belongs on this thread... Tweet from D’Lo!  Nuff said... get me more killers like this!  I want kids that want to be here...

“Wouldn’t have changed it for anything simple enough ? I love @StJohnsBBall @StJohnsU place that welcomed me and allowed me to showcase my talents but to answer naw I wouldn’t have transferred I am to solid!! @SteveLavin64”

In hindsight, Lavin's bond with his players was much stronger then me and many others gave  him credit for. Now more then ever, the bond between coaches and players will play a huge factor in the success of a program. 
 

 

[Jack Williams]

This is my last post regarding any of this bickering and complaining. 

1) these are the rules the NCAA put out. Don’t blame Anderson. There are more than 1000 players in the portal already. If you average that out to every Division I program that’s still damn near 4 players per program. 

2) it’s April 2nd for Christ’s sake. April 2nd. The National Championship hasn’t even been decided yet. 

3) you’re all supposedly grown men who have supported this program in one way or the other for decades no? This is the kinda stuff that really pisses you off? There have been many, much worse things that have happened than a few kids transferring (especially when there is a one-time rule allowing them to do so scot-free). 

4) this dude, the coach. You all loved him 2 weeks ago. All of a sudden he’s a turd? That’s it? Every program in the country is losing, on average, 4 players and this is all on him? Hilarious, considering he was the cat’s pajamas 2 weeks ago. 

5) a lot of you pushing some narrative the media is “destroying” us in the press. Uh, that’s mostly you. On this board. Pot meet kettle. 

6) you all would have been lovely when the Revolutionary War or WWII started. We would have surrendered after the first week. Grow a pair. There’s bigger problems then your favorite basketball team losing 8 guys to the dreaded portal. 

7) these kids have just gone through a major pandemic where they have been locked down for a full year. As Ghostzapper so astutely pointed out, a lot of them could think transferring closer to home (or further away from it) could be comforting to them at what is probably the most stressful days of their lives. Wheeler said flat out he wants to be closer to home. 

Need I go on? I could you know. 

this post shows a severe lack of understanding on the term “nuance” 

yes we all praised Coach Mike A when he gave us a great season and won coach of the year.

yes we also have concerns about coach Mike A when he loses essentially our entire roster. 

guess what... things happen that can change the perception of a coach. And by the way, I’ve been partaking in this discussion basically the whole time; and aside from maybe one or two posts I haven’t seen anyone coming close to calling Mike A a “turd”. It has been pretty level headed discussion about the state of the program after losing basically our entire roster.

Loving Mike A for last season and being upset about this offseason go hand in hand. We liked the roster he built and the season they had. We loved what he was building towards. And now like a house of cards it has all fallen. 

And as for your statements about perspective and us not lasting in a war and Yada Yada Yada. This is a St John’s Basketball message board. Sure there are bigger problems in the world but we come here to discuss our program and the problems/triumphs that are going on there. I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand about that. 

 

[lawmanfan]

 Well said BF. 
 

Monte, I had no idea that you had a boyfriend!  Or maybe you just forgot the other F in BFF.  /media/kunena/emoticons/silly.png

Aside from that - folks, please just TRY to work with us here.  We already had to split a disaster of a thread into the SJU targets versus the Transfer Portal generally.  Now we had to split the SJU targets thread again to get the turnover debate out of it.

Please please please try to stay on topic.  Start another thread if you must - if there are duplicate threads we can always merge and rename them - which is a lot easier than picking out posts and moving them, believe me.

Thanks.

Now back to your regularly scheduled bickering and doomscrolling.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Florida and Mike White have lost 6 players over the last two weeks. So it’s happening in a lot of places. 

And they made the tournament.  That's a worse optic in my eyes.
As much as Greg and Marcellus were good soldiers we didn't win with them here.  They want to leave and I support that.  And of course I hope CMA brings in kids that he feels can elevate us further.

Could have been the first four year players at sju to have 4 winning seasons in? 25 years? Yea that says a lot about us but I don’t think they weren’t winning players.

 

[Money]

If I remember correctly this years record was 16-11 NOT 16-15! That is a fine improvement over 2020,62%  vs 52% winning percentage.It probably would have been a 4 -5 win increase based on full season!No reason why that can’t be improved upon again next year, even if Julian defects. I’d still bet on CMA and his system! 

I’m not talking about this season.

im saying, there better not be fans who would be happy if we go 16-15 in the future just because it preserves some streak. F the streak if we aren’t making NCAA Tournaments 

Why are you losing your mind about what other fans think about the streak?  
You talk about its all about making NCAA Tournaments but then incessantly complain about a bunch of non-making tournament players moving on, BTW most who contributed very little to this team.

If your goal is to make tournaments then you should be happy that this staff has a chance to bring in better talent than the ones that have been here the last 2 years and did not achieve your said objective.

I for one, believe all of the players that left can be replaced or improved upon - with exception of Champ.  
Let's see who's on this team come October and then we can all lose our collective shat if need be!

Show me better players and I'll STFU. So far it's about the same except the new kids have to learn CMA's system. So this is a case of  subtraction by addition; same level of talent coming in with no knowledge of CMA's system. So far I see a wash, maybe. 

 

No one is telling you to STFU... If it makes you feel better to whine and bitch, have at it. 
Just don't understand the ad nauseum complaints... It's like we lost a bunch of star players who got us into the tournament that can't be replaced.  These are and were players that were not successful in getting us into the tournament.  Why on earth should we be up in arms about them leaving?  

There are 2 guys that I would have liked to stay and that's Williams and Moore.  I believe both have the ability to play at this level, all of the others were mismatched and we saw that pretty much every game.



 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

IDRAFT was even reasonable enough to admit when his joke didn’t land. If Bill was able to do that we might still only have one thread I kid I kid. I think we can all realize we’re sitting behind a keyboard and discussions often times seem much more heated than they are intended. A message board without debate isn’t a message board