Robbins - Ugliness Oozes from Red Zone

HAAAAA. That cracked me up. +1

The Friday game began at 430. The only adults I know who aren't working at that time are at the OWS protests.



We, the student section, do need a lot of work. We need to come up with new chants and more clever ones at that. At the same time, if it weren't for the students, not a single person would be cheering in St. John's favor either nights. It's disgusting that non students can't be bothered to be at two different games against ranked opponents.

Every time I step into the Garden as a student, I have to deal with countless drunk, 30-something year old white collar alumni picking fights with me. Never in a million years would there be any noticable number of STJ alumni to serve as a fanbase and we're ALWAYS incredibly outnumbered, yet it's our homecourt. Have fun watching a Fordham home game in December.

It's actually disturbing how few regular people we get to games as a Big East school. We really don't deserve the attention or success we are getting.

I'm not defending the U are Gay chants or Suck My Johnny, we're better than that; but at the same time without that, what is there? A home game for Arizona and a home game for A&M.

Lenn wants to take away student tickets? Just when they're starting to show up? Have fun trying to get anybody to come back. Having the administration fix things is not the answer, let us police ourselves. Otherwise, have fun watching St. John's with 400 STJ fans in the building sitting on their hands. 
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 We drew 9k to this game isn't bad. Last year most of our big matchups at MSG had good crowds that were SJU heavy, I don't know what people are complaining about? We've stunk for the greater part of 20 years. It will take some consistent winning to really rebuild the fan base, and it DOES need to be rebuilt. It will take time but attndance has taken quite a jump and will continue to draw more SJU fans as well as fans of other schools. NYC is a "melting pot" for other teams an bases as well. We should be careful what we wish for. The fact that we play in NYC, MSG and are a draw for both SJU fans and other teams fans is what separates SJU from being irrelevant.

SJU support will get better, but we need those students coming to games. They are the future fan base that will be replacing the blue-haired fan base that sits on their hands. One good season isn't going to change it. I could care less whether Lenn Robins appreciates their vernacular. Let em have fun and be obnoxious college kids like at every other school. Other more important things to worry about.
 
You are easily the best fan we have and it's not even close.
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When you email tell Monasch about who our greatest fan is, don't forget to cc Mike Repole. I hear he has some clout as well.
 
 
You are easily the best fan we have and it's not even close.
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When you email tell Monasch about who our greatest fan is, don't forget to cc Mike Repole. I hear he has some clout as well.
 
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 I'll mention it to him. He certainly has some clout. Just not as much as Jhansonbro17 at games. Besides Jhansonbro17 is bigger and has his own little mob of students as friends so I wouldn't want to get on his bad side.

And if they want to have a happy birthday mjmaherjr chant on my birthday on national tv then who am I to argue :) 
 
 the only thing that pisses me off about this article is now the school is gonna overreact and public safety is undoubtedly gonna come straight to me before the game Tuesday, if they don't come to me at the soccer game tomorrow, and reem me out for a chant I didn't start nor partake in (I didn't care that they chanted it, but the "u of a" chants were embarrassingly loud enough that at that point we were just adding to that noise)

Im on my phone and im tired of having this debate every single season so ill try to just keep this short and most likely wont even look at this thread again. First of all, since most of you didn't even hear the chants, you're taking lennys extreme sensationalism and treating it as gospel. There were 2 groups of arizona fans who began heckling the student section UNPROVOKED before the game even started and didn't stop all game. I would see them in my peripheral staring at us and saying stuff to us in the middle of a play! All these 30 something year old losers cared about was getting drunk and heckling us. I went to security early in the game and told them that this is without a doubt gonna escalate and to tell the arizona fans to knock it off so it doesn't get to that point, and they basically reemed me out and started to already place blame on us (this is before we even chanted anything at them, most of us were just trying to ignore them). Later in the game is when they started heckling us again, pointing and starting the "u of a" chant, at which point about half the students chanted back at this specific group while pointing at them "you are gay" (same thing goes for the suck my johnny chant, where maybe 30% of the students, if that, chanted it). So we didn't even chant "u of gay" like lenny said and we didn't just decide to randomly chant that directed towards the court or something throughout the game like he's trying to imply.

We've had this argument every season since I've been a student so im not gonna get into the moral debate about how offensive the chant is or what the intent of the chant is and whether its right or wrong. But if you think that a vulgar chant from a bunch of college kids at a basketball game is at all indicative of how educated they/we are and is a poor reflection on the student body of this university than you're just as naive and ignorant as you claim the students are for chanting things like that. Any student section in america would/do chant vulgar/offensive things in those situations and I've never once thought that any group of riled up college kids at a basketball game doing so would in any way represent the university or their education. For you people that generalize like this, you all have an open invitation to grab a beer with myself and any of the core students before a game and actually get to know us and you might be surprised to find out that we're not a bunch of classless neanderthals, and that most of us are actually pretty damn smart and a bunch of real cool dudes.

Lastly, for the people who use the same "its unoriginal and dumb, you should be more clever" argument every time and want us to be like the cameron crazies, just get a grip already and get over yourselves, we're not duke, unc, kentucky, etc, and we never will be. We're not a fan boy side show there to entertain you. I happen to think we come up with alot of clever stuff that never even gets mentioned here. The ones who keep making this argument are the ones that would criticize anything we do as not clever enough or whatever. And if you took the chance to get to know us you'd find that the majority of our student core are genuine college basketball/st johns fans who grew up watching this program, not a bunch of bro's wearing sunglasses in the dark who support their school because its the cool thing to do. There are times throughout the game where myself and many others are actually just focused on the game, not trying to think of a cool clever chant for every possession to keep all of you happy. And for the record, we've all spoken already about needing new chants on offense so we don't chant "let's go johnnies" all game and we had several new chants this past week but since there weren't many students (and since none of you showed up) you didn't hear them. And I like to chant defense more often than "ooooooo" because its easier for the rest of the crowd to participate in that and IMO sounds much better if the entire crowd chants it in unison as opposed to the students yelling "ooooo" and the crowd just making noise. But ofcourse the crowd does neither so its a moot point. Its amazing that so many of you are so quick to criticize and apparently have so many better ideas, yet the only time our fans make any noise is for a damn t-shirt toss. Maybe if we can get our crowd to actually stand/yell/chant occassionally with the students i'd take these criticisms more seriously (and this obviously isn't directed at the fans here who do actually show up and make noise). But until then, most of you should be thankful that the team is finally getting very respectable student support because without us the games would sound like a damn morgue.
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When I was at SJU in the late 90's i wish the student section was as vocal. We had a good group but more organized now. Back then I was one of the few getting thrown out of games. Keep it up and bring more SJU students into e fold. It's a game and a place to have fun and get a bit crazy and into the spirit of rivalry. Enjoy your days as a student. Plenty of time to be one of the drunk 30 something's at the game like many of us.

In addition jhansboro, these chants certainly do not reflect the intelligence or lack thereof of our students and fans. It's college kids at a game having fun. Many of the friends I've made on this board and others, actually most of them are very successful and intelligent people who are highly educated. Lots of us have said an obnoxious thing or two while enjoying one of the few outlets that we all share. Political correctness has run a bit too rampant.
 
... Using your logic though, a generation ago fans who brought bananas to Georgetown games to mock Patrick Ewing as an ape, held signs that said "Patrick Ewing can't read this" and other thinly veiled racist sentiments were completely within their rights. 
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Nowadays they're called birthers. B)
 
mods can we please change jay's name to "the sleveless shirt guy"?  :lol:
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That's not Mr. medium t-shirt guy is it?
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 HAAA LOL !!!

No it's not and Jahansonbro's real name isn't Jay or Jason. 
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LOL I haven't fit into a medium in probably 15 years. And yea, my name is actually bill, if there are any hockey fans on here my screen name is about the movie slapshot (jeff hanson brother #17, it was my aol screen name when I was in 8th grade and I just use it for everything so I never forget it haha).

Hope some of you can make it out to belson stadium today!!!!
 
 the only thing that pisses me off about this article is now the school is gonna overreact and public safety is undoubtedly gonna come straight to me before the game Tuesday, if they don't come to me at the soccer game tomorrow, and reem me out for a chant I didn't start nor partake in (I didn't care that they chanted it, but the "u of a" chants were embarrassingly loud enough that at that point we were just adding to that noise)

Im on my phone and im tired of having this debate every single season so ill try to just keep this short and most likely wont even look at this thread again. First of all, since most of you didn't even hear the chants, you're taking lennys extreme sensationalism and treating it as gospel. There were 2 groups of arizona fans who began heckling the student section UNPROVOKED before the game even started and didn't stop all game. I would see them in my peripheral staring at us and saying stuff to us in the middle of a play! All these 30 something year old losers cared about was getting drunk and heckling us. I went to security early in the game and told them that this is without a doubt gonna escalate and to tell the arizona fans to knock it off so it doesn't get to that point, and they basically reemed me out and started to already place blame on us (this is before we even chanted anything at them, most of us were just trying to ignore them). Later in the game is when they started heckling us again, pointing and starting the "u of a" chant, at which point about half the students chanted back at this specific group while pointing at them "you are gay" (same thing goes for the suck my johnny chant, where maybe 30% of the students, if that, chanted it). So we didn't even chant "u of gay" like lenny said and we didn't just decide to randomly chant that directed towards the court or something throughout the game like he's trying to imply.

We've had this argument every season since I've been a student so im not gonna get into the moral debate about how offensive the chant is or what the intent of the chant is and whether its right or wrong. But if you think that a vulgar chant from a bunch of college kids at a basketball game is at all indicative of how educated they/we are and is a poor reflection on the student body of this university than you're just as naive and ignorant as you claim the students are for chanting things like that. Any student section in america would/do chant vulgar/offensive things in those situations and I've never once thought that any group of riled up college kids at a basketball game doing so would in any way represent the university or their education. For you people that generalize like this, you all have an open invitation to grab a beer with myself and any of the core students before a game and actually get to know us and you might be surprised to find out that we're not a bunch of classless neanderthals, and that most of us are actually pretty damn smart and a bunch of real cool dudes.

Lastly, for the people who use the same "its unoriginal and dumb, you should be more clever" argument every time and want us to be like the cameron crazies, just get a grip already and get over yourselves, we're not duke, unc, kentucky, etc, and we never will be. We're not a fan boy side show there to entertain you. I happen to think we come up with alot of clever stuff that never even gets mentioned here. The ones who keep making this argument are the ones that would criticize anything we do as not clever enough or whatever. And if you took the chance to get to know us you'd find that the majority of our student core are genuine college basketball/st johns fans who grew up watching this program, not a bunch of bro's wearing sunglasses in the dark who support their school because its the cool thing to do. There are times throughout the game where myself and many others are actually just focused on the game, not trying to think of a cool clever chant for every possession to keep all of you happy. And for the record, we've all spoken already about needing new chants on offense so we don't chant "let's go johnnies" all game and we had several new chants this past week but since there weren't many students (and since none of you showed up) you didn't hear them. And I like to chant defense more often than "ooooooo" because its easier for the rest of the crowd to participate in that and IMO sounds much better if the entire crowd chants it in unison as opposed to the students yelling "ooooo" and the crowd just making noise. But ofcourse the crowd does neither so its a moot point. Its amazing that so many of you are so quick to criticize and apparently have so many better ideas, yet the only time our fans make any noise is for a damn t-shirt toss. Maybe if we can get our crowd to actually stand/yell/chant occassionally with the students i'd take these criticisms more seriously (and this obviously isn't directed at the fans here who do actually show up and make noise). But until then, most of you should be thankful that the team is finally getting very respectable student support because without us the games would sound like a damn morgue.
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It takes 2 things to bring back the Redmen experence.
1. On the court play. We are getting there and it's great!
2. In the stands. The current students are also well on their way!

Keep up the good work.
We are St. John's!!!!!!!!!
 
Let me first say that all in all, I agree with Robbins. While I don't believe in getting completely hissy and upset about JOKES, the fact is that there are children killing themselves over the types of things they're hearing (including jokes) from their peers, religious leaders, politicians and now at things like sporting events. I think it doesn't give a school, especially in a place like NYC that thrives off of diversity, a good name.
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Huhwhat? During a discussion of exactly this same issue last year you took exactly the opposite position. Then you said that having paid for your ticket it was your right to scream whatever obscentities you wanted, in the presence of whomever you wanted, including children, and that anyone who would attempt to stop you was either a puritan or a fascist. Here you are agreeing with Robbins, who's calling on SJ to impose a speech code. Have you had a change of heart? Or is it merely that you approve of the censorship of others, who say things that you find personally offensive, while reserving to yourself the right to say whatever you like, whenever you like, to whomever you like.
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You must've ignored the part where I said "I'm not offended by jokes" and that I could PERSONALLY care less about this language. Here is why I'm perfectly OK with chants of "a--hole" and "bu--shit" at officials but I'm more split on stuff like this: there are children KILLING THEMSELVES because of the misunderstanding of these jokes (along with the REAL hate of politicians and religious leaders).

Most of my friends are extremely progressive human beings and yet we still make jokes amongst ourselves. I am fine with these jokes being made amongst a group of friends that know each other, but I don't agree with this chant where potentially insecure children are or are listening to it through a TV. You don't see kids killing or hurting themselves because of rhetoric like "a--hole" or "bull-hit" at a basketball game. Again, as I said on a different post, I am a bit split on this issue. I definitely see both sides of it, but I definitely think that chanting something about race or sexuality has much different consequences than simply chanting "a--hole" at an official. I do think theres a difference there.
 
 My last most was a bit all over the place so I hope it can be understood haha. Anyways, in addition to Robbins' article being filled with the usual melodrama, he got the story wrong according to people IN the student section. As you saw sleeveless guy say, Robbins got the chant wrong, he failed to leave out that it was to a group of obnoxious fans (this doesnt make the chant right but IS a part of the story) and that about 50% or even less of the student section even participated in it. Typical Lenn Robbins. I really hope the NY Post gives us another beat writer.
 
Comparing this to an anti-black or anti-semetic chant might be the dumbest idea I have yet to hear. It's not like anyone was yelling at an actual gay person and making fun of their sexuality. Everyone was simply calling out a few clowns using a word that has a completely different slang meaning than what was discussed in the article.
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Dude, its exactly the same thing.

If you yelled at a bunch of white fans and called them a racial slur meant to demean people of color you'd be doing exactly the same thing. The fact that you assume none of those they were targeting the slur at would actually be offended by it isn't only a ridiculous assumption on your part, its also completely irrelevant.

The phrase is meant to belittle and demean a group of people because they are different or in the minority.

Sorry, but that's just not right.
 
We, the student section, do need a lot of work. We need to come up with new chants and more clever ones at that. At the same time, if it weren't for the students, not a single person would be cheering in St. John's favor either nights. It's disgusting that non students can't be bothered to be at two different games against ranked opponents.

Every time I step into the Garden as a student, I have to deal with countless drunk, 30-something year old white collar alumni picking fights with me. Never in a million years would there be any noticable number of STJ alumni to serve as a fanbase and we're ALWAYS incredibly outnumbered, yet it's our homecourt. Have fun watching a Fordham home game in December.

It's actually disturbing how few regular people we get to games as a Big East school. We really don't deserve the attention or success we are getting.

I'm not defending the U are Gay chants or Suck My Johnny, we're better than that; but at the same time without that, what is there? A home game for Arizona and a home game for A&M.
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So you justifying the chants based on the fact that nobody else had anything better or louder to say?

That's beyond weak.

There are PLENTY or alum and fans at MSG games and most of us have season tix so we are at CA as well.

The PROBLEM with our fan base isn't just on them.

You have 21,000+ STUDENTS at SJU and you get maybe 200 to turn out for a home game at CA or the Garden.

Perhaps you should focus on your end of equation before taking on whats wrong with the rest of us.
 
You must've ignored the part where I said "I'm not offended by jokes" and that I could PERSONALLY care less about this language. Here is why I'm perfectly OK with chants of "a--hole" and "bu--shit" at officials but I'm more split on stuff like this: there are children KILLING THEMSELVES because of the misunderstanding of these jokes (along with the REAL hate of politicians and religious leaders).
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Please supply a real life example of REAL hatred in capital letters of homosexuals expressed by a mainstream Catholic cleric. I don't think you can. It's true that Catholics believe that homosexuality is a sin - it's also true that they hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Most of my friends are extremely progressive human beings
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I'm sure you think you're extremely progressive human beings.

and yet we still make jokes amongst ourselves.
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Just curious: do you and your progressive friends drop the N word or do you just make fun of nancies?

I am fine with these jokes being made amongst a group of friends that know each other, but I don't agree with this chant where potentially insecure children are or are listening to it through a TV. You don't see kids killing or hurting themselves because of rhetoric like "a--hole" or "bull-hit" at a basketball game.
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You don't see anyone killing themselves because of any rhetoric at a basketball game. You're merely assuming that thoughts of which you disapprove are harmful, whereas thoughts of which you approve are not.

Again, as I said on a different post, I am a bit split on this issue. I definitely see both sides of it, but I definitely think that chanting something about race or sexuality has much different consequences than simply chanting "a--hole" at an official. I do think theres a difference there.
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And I noted the difference earlier: you approve of your own behavior and disapprove of similar behaviors by others.

Impressionable insecure children kill themselves for all sorts of reasons, including good old fashioned non sexually oriented bullying. Not only do vulgar chants contribute to the coursening of the culture, but they promote an atmosphere in which good old fashioned bullies feel that it's okay for themelves and the herd they run with to torment someone who does something of which they disapprove. Which is the example you and your progressive pals are setting when you scream obscenities at the ref.
 
I believe in demonizing people that TRULY belittle other people through their actions, not jokes. And yes we joke about all different types of people amongst ourselves. Again, I think its ok to do amongst people you're comfortable being around and know. I believe there's a difference between the two actions being described here, you obviously believe differently. Again, I'm going back and forth in my mind on this issue, but overall I do think people should stay away from the chants I've listed above. By the way, it's not just an issue of sexuality. If a group of students chanted "retard" at an official/team I would likely be opposed to it as well. Same thing with any insult that's connected with any group of people born a certain way (race/sexuality/heritage/etc). I see a lot of peoples opinions on here and certainly agree with a lot of whats being said here on all sides of the equation. I personally don't think theres anything wrong with a JOKE, but in these times where kids are committing suicide because of this language, I believe in discouraging it in public situations. Thats all.
 
Comparing this to an anti-black or anti-semetic chant might be the dumbest idea I have yet to hear. It's not like anyone was yelling at an actual gay person and making fun of their sexuality. Everyone was simply calling out a few clowns using a word that has a completely different slang meaning than what was discussed in the article.
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Dude, its exactly the same thing.

If you yelled at a bunch of white fans and called them a racial slur meant to demean people of color you'd be doing exactly the same thing. The fact that you assume none of those they were targeting the slur at would actually be offended by it isn't only a ridiculous assumption on your part, its also completely irrelevant.

The phrase is meant to belittle and demean a group of people because they are different or in the minority.

Sorry, but that's just not right.
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I'd argue that the term "gay" certainly has become much more of a PC buzz-word these days and The term "gay" has different connotations. As a kid, we used words like "gay" more in a context of that person being a "loser" or "dorky" context, not in the way it is being taken in Lenn's interpretation. I'd argue that the students were using it in the context as one would say "you are dorks" but "U of A" certainly rhymes better with "U of Gay" or whatever was chanted.

Bottom line is that words in the English language are just that. We tend to sensationalize certain buzz words and either escalate their importance or diminish it based on public sentiment. Really, it was a basketball game and the kids fired back with "u of gay", without intent of using it as a jagged instrument of destruction like Lenn is trying to imply.
 
And I noted the difference earlier: you approve of your own behavior and disapprove of similar behaviors by others.
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I believe the behaviors are different and not all that similar. To each his own.
 
 As a side note, why do people go to games and get pissy drunk? You can't possibly enjoy the event that you came there to see. I saw one guy alsmost fall flat on his face as he staggered up the stairs. He would have been seriously hurt had he gone down. Another guy had thrown up in his mouth and was running up the stairs to the bathroom, trying to contain it until he got there.

I have abused alcohol quite a bit in my younger days. Fortunately, it never developed into an ongoing problem. However, If I go to a game, I may have a couple of beers but I still want to be able to watch the game.
 
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