Robbins - Ugliness Oozes from Red Zone

[beast of the east]

Your examples are poor. In Christianity, the new covenant created by Christ replaced the old. The Apostle Paul correctly chastised Peter's assertion that Gentile converts observe mosaic law. Paul's commentary, which Chrsitians uphold, is that the law never saved anyone, not because the law was false, but because no human could fullly keep the law. Hence the need for a savior, Jesus Christ, whose death and resurrection was a price and victory over sin.

I am against bias on the basis of gender, race, or sexuality. But there is a line, Theo, and religious institutions have a moral reposnbility to their affiliated churches to teach and uphold the faith they are based in.

Let me first say that all in all, I agree with Robbins. While I don't believe in getting completely hissy and upset about JOKES, the fact is that there are children killing themselves over the types of things they're hearing (including jokes) from their peers, religious leaders, politicians and now at things like sporting events. I think it doesn't give a school, especially in a place like NYC that thrives off of diversity, a good name.

However, Robbins' language and anecdotes in this article are a bit extreme. Comparing a joke by a student section to Laramie, WY (where Matthew Shepard was murdered for being gay) is wayyyyy extreme. His other language is very overdramatic as well (in typical Robbins fashion).

It should also be noted that St. John's doesn't allow an LGBT group to be formed on campus, so I don't want to see the school pretend to get upset about this when the fact is that they basically enable this by telling LGBT kids that they don't have the right to start a group up to help raise awareness about these exact types of things.

 


It's a flippin catholic university....why would they allow a group to be formed that goes against their teachings, or the teachings of the bible?? people just look for anything to b*tch about nowadays. This country is becoming a bunch of sissies and its pathetic. Children are being raised to be hypersensitive, hence the reason they are hurting themselves over words.Pathetic

 

So if we go your route, there shouldn't be a barber or allow someone to cut hair on campus (Leviticus 19:27), serve pork on campus (Leviticus 11:7), not plant more than one kind of greenery on campus (Leviticus 19:19), or serve shellfish on campus (Leviticus 11:11). Children aren't being raised to be hypersensitive, children by nature ARE sensitive and insecure (go read a book by a child psychologist if you don't believe this), and having people of power constantly railing against them takes a toll. This is nothing new in society so don't say "nowadays" because children have been running away from home and killing themselves for decades now because of this.

 

 

[SJUFAN2]

lol...


So to sum up...its ok if the school has a large gay population but not ok if they don't. :silly:

Its bad form. PERIOD.

It makes the school, the staff, and the team look bad and it makes the students look ignorant and stupid.

Frankly, I'd prefer NOT to have the team I support project that image under ANY circumstances, but to each his own I guess.

I railed against profane based chants last year, and got into it with a bunch of students. I'm not in favor of it, and wouldn't be too upset if the school stepped on it a little, but I'm not going to the wall against it anymore.

What bothers me about this thread is that some of those inflamed by the student chants are pointedly more upset with "U of Gay" as a sign of intolerance.

I would heartily disagree as to what that chant symbolizes. Yea, when someone is called gay, it STILL has a negative connotation. A guy wears a pink tie or something alittle flamboyant to work, and he will get some not so subtle reference to his sexuality. Do something a little feminine, and your friends will joke about the same. Does it equate to the full charge of homophobic behavior? THAT'S A STRETCH.

Listen, without calling a kid out who might not even be gay, we have a GREAT dancer on the SJU dance team, who is cat-called by NOONE, and appreciated by many. He is perhaps the best dancer on the team, the only guy on the team, and I'VE NEVER HEARD A SINGLE CHANT OR SHOUT against him.

In street vernacular, even pimrary school kids will rant "That's so gay, Mom!" without having a clue to sexuality. I don't think our students were making any threats or veiled references - it just rhymed with U of A, and there's that ever present negative connotation - the stuff of which makes people roar on "Modern Family" - the top comedy on TV.

Now, if we had player American University, commonly and with a large shred of truth, called Gay U. instead of A.U. for it's large gay population, I'd say these posts have more validity.

Ehh, I think our student section isn't going to change, so we may as well live with it.

I was worried they woould finish the "U of A" chant by adding "holes" to the "A-"

 

 

Why?

Because calling someone an A-hole is somehow worse than calling them gay or telling them to suck your johnnie?

Bottomline is that Its a classless thing to do.

If you are comfortable with people representing your institution in that fashion...so be it. There are plenty of classless people in the world.

I understand that kids will be kids but adults need to be adults and point out to them that their behavior makes the team, the staff, and the school look bad.

 

 

 

[TRabinowitz]

I railed against profane based chants last year, and got into it with a bunch of students. I'm not in favor of it, and wouldn't be too upset if the school stepped on it a little, but I'm not going to the wall against it anymore.

What bothers me about this thread is that some of those inflamed by the student chants are pointedly more upset with "U of Gay" as a sign of intolerance.

I would heartily disagree as to what that chant symbolizes. Yea, when someone is called gay, it STILL has a negative connotation. A guy wears a pink tie or something alittle flamboyant to work, and he will get some not so subtle reference to his sexuality. Do something a little feminine, and your friends will joke about the same. Does it equate to the full charge of homophobic behavior? THAT'S A STRETCH.

Listen, without calling a kid out who might not even be gay, we have a GREAT dancer on the SJU dance team, who is cat-called by NOONE, and appreciated by many. He is perhaps the best dancer on the team, the only guy on the team, and I'VE NEVER HEARD A SINGLE CHANT OR SHOUT against him.

In street vernacular, even pimrary school kids will rant "That's so gay, Mom!" without having a clue to sexuality. I don't think our students were making any threats or veiled references - it just rhymed with U of A, and there's that ever present negative connotation - the stuff of which makes people roar on "Modern Family" - the top comedy on TV.

Now, if we had player American University, commonly and with a large shred of truth, called Gay U. instead of A.U. for it's large gay population, I'd say these posts have more validity.

Ehh, I think our student section isn't going to change, so we may as well live with it.

I was worried they woould finish the "U of A" chant by adding "holes" to the "A-"

 

 

Why?

Because calling someone an A-hole is somehow worse than calling them gay or telling them to suck your johnnie?

Bottomline is that Its a classless thing to do.

If you are comfortable with people representing your institution in that fashion...so be it. There are plenty of classless people in the world.

I understand that kids will be kids but adults need to be adults and point out to them that their behavior makes the team, the staff, and the school look bad.

 

 

Agree with much of your perspective on this, Beast. Good points. I personally don't find any jokes about myself to be offensive. I think people should use their time to rail against the politicians and religious leaders that are ACTUALLY homophobic/bigoted and less towards jokes. Only point where I differ with you is that this is joke could be a bit different in that children are hurting themselves because they hear this type of language. I'm a bit split on this.

 

[Moose]

I've been to every game this year and my ears are pretty good. I don't ever recall a Suck My Johnny chant. 

 

[TRabinowitz]

 And yes Beast that's fine if the school feels like they have the right to spew their religious-veiled hatred (because unfortunately they do), but the administration shouldn't act upset when their students in turn do things which could indicate that they believe LGBT people are lesser individuals. That belief is clearly condoned by the actions of the school in their actions in not allowing a Pride group on campus. All I'm saying is that they should be honest about it and not fake.

 

[beast of the east]

I agree with your rebuttal - Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

I railed against profane based chants last year, and got into it with a bunch of students. I'm not in favor of it, and wouldn't be too upset if the school stepped on it a little, but I'm not going to the wall against it anymore.

What bothers me about this thread is that some of those inflamed by the student chants are pointedly more upset with "U of Gay" as a sign of intolerance.

I would heartily disagree as to what that chant symbolizes. Yea, when someone is called gay, it STILL has a negative connotation. A guy wears a pink tie or something alittle flamboyant to work, and he will get some not so subtle reference to his sexuality. Do something a little feminine, and your friends will joke about the same. Does it equate to the full charge of homophobic behavior? THAT'S A STRETCH.

Listen, without calling a kid out who might not even be gay, we have a GREAT dancer on the SJU dance team, who is cat-called by NOONE, and appreciated by many. He is perhaps the best dancer on the team, the only guy on the team, and I'VE NEVER HEARD A SINGLE CHANT OR SHOUT against him.

In street vernacular, even pimrary school kids will rant "That's so gay, Mom!" without having a clue to sexuality. I don't think our students were making any threats or veiled references - it just rhymed with U of A, and there's that ever present negative connotation - the stuff of which makes people roar on "Modern Family" - the top comedy on TV.

Now, if we had player American University, commonly and with a large shred of truth, called Gay U. instead of A.U. for it's large gay population, I'd say these posts have more validity.

Ehh, I think our student section isn't going to change, so we may as well live with it.

I was worried they woould finish the "U of A" chant by adding "holes" to the "A-"

 

 

Why?

Because calling someone an A-hole is somehow worse than calling them gay or telling them to suck your johnnie?

Bottomline is that Its a classless thing to do.

If you are comfortable with people representing your institution in that fashion...so be it. There are plenty of classless people in the world.

I understand that kids will be kids but adults need to be adults and point out to them that their behavior makes the team, the staff, and the school look bad.

 

 

Agree with much of your perspective on this, Beast. Good points. I personally don't find any jokes about myself to be offensive. I think people should use their time to rail against the politicians and religious leaders that are ACTUALLY homophobic/bigoted and less towards jokes. Only point where I differ with you is that this is joke could be a bit different in that children are hurting themselves because they hear this type of language. I'm a bit split on this.

 

 

[dee]

 I agree that the Red Zone can often act rather lame. What they need to do is get together before the game and agree upon chants as the Dukies do. The Dukies have a prepared script given to the students before the game. Some chants could be and this is only a suggestion- versus Fordham- "The Ram is dead"; versus Syracuse- "Everything feels FINE"; versus Pitt- "ACC Sucks" versus WVa- "Little 12" versus UCONN- the obvious "UCant". I would also like to say that the students in the Red Zone who turn their backs in introductions of the opposing team and just yell "Sucks"-- really needs to change. think of something else. Another suggestion is - one side of the Red Zone on the campus should yell one word and the other side should finish it by saying a second word, a little harmony would be nice.

 

[beast of the east]

Theo, I think it's not an accurate position to call the church's position on sexuality religious-veiled hatred. We can have a really long, off board discussion, and I think we would agree on much, so I don't want to be a defender of the church on issues of sexuality.

I do think your point is valid in regards to a chant that oculd be percevied as sexuality-bias shouldn't exist in intercollegiate sports, no less form a religious school. I'd feel a lot more inclined if the chants used stronger homophobic slurs than "Gay U". Again, this was some idiot coming up with it, and in a gang mentality, students repeating it.

I'm actually more offended by the "F--- you" or "Bulls--" chants at referees after a call perceived to be bad.

 And yes Beast that's fine if the school feels like they have the right to spew their religious-veiled hatred (because unfortunately they do), but the administration shouldn't act upset when their students in turn do things which could indicate that they believe LGBT people are lesser individuals. That belief is clearly condoned by the actions of the school in their actions in not allowing a Pride group on campus. All I'm saying is that they should be honest about it and not fake.

 

 

[LJSA]

I was worried they woould finish the "U of A" chant by adding "holes" to the "A-"

 

That would have been infinitely more clever.

 

[Section9]

Ehh, I think our student section isn't going to change, so we may as well live with it.

I was worried they woould finish the "U of A" chant by adding "holes" to the "A-"

 

 

Why?

Because calling someone an A-hole is somehow worse than calling them gay or telling them to suck your johnnie?

Bottomline is that Its a classless thing to do.

If you are comfortable with people representing your institution in that fashion...so be it. There are plenty of classless people in the world.

I understand that kids will be kids but adults need to be adults and point out to them that their behavior makes the team, the staff, and the school look bad.

 

Maybe the "adults" that point this out should be the staff itself. if the kids don't listen to Lavin, Dunlap or Keady then maybe we should just forget about it.

 

[McGarry2]

I left St. John's over 50 years ago. At least then homosexuality was seen a sin,but then the teaching was you hate the sin not the sinner. Also I recall that I was exposed to the notion that a gentlemen minizes the pain there action might cause.  Has St. John's changed to the extent that the adinistation will not step in and control the student section?

 

[NYCRedmen]

Remember years ago when BC coach Jim O'Brien got into a shouting match with a campus security guard at Alumni Hall after a BC loss? He was upset that no one said anything to the students who were using profane language towards the BC team. Then a few years ago there was an article complaining about the douchebag chants from the STJ students towards families from visiting teams. Now an article in the NY Post. Regardless as to whether we agree or disagree with the chants or Lenn Robbins, I think we can all agree that this type of attention is never a good thing for the team or the University.

 

[STJ11Redmen]

 I agree that the Red Zone can often act rather lame. What they need to do is get together before the game and agree upon chants as the Dukies do. The Dukies have a prepared script given to the students before the game. Some chants could be and this is only a suggestion- versus Fordham- "The Ram is dead"; versus Syracuse- "Everything feels FINE"; versus Pitt- "ACC Sucks" versus WVa- "Little 12" versus UCONN- the obvious "UCant". I would also like to say that the students in the Red Zone who turn their backs in introductions of the opposing team and just yell "Sucks"-- really needs to change. think of something else. Another suggestion is - one side of the Red Zone on the campus should yell one word and the other side should finish it by saying a second word, a little harmony would be nice.

 

No offense but those ideas you suggested are lame. Look, we arent duke, we arent witty dorks who come up with clever sayings to amuse the rest of you clowns. For the most part our students are blue collar basketball fans. Were the chants offensive, yes. Is it any worse than what happens at any other school? No. What you guys didnt see is people coming up to us and taunting us, arizona fans were brutal. And its annoying having the opposing fans outnumber ours and chant in our building. The school gave us a memo saying to not be vulgar and to fight against the real opponent, cancer which I thought was stupid. And for the record suck my johnny was pretty clever.

 

[STJ11Redmen]

 And to call us homophobic is just dumb...people on every single campus in america use the word gay as a synonym for being bad. Get a grip.

 

[beast of the east]

In my recollection, Obrien's wife had either just died from cancer or was terminal. Our students were taunting him about his wife. How's that for a lack of class.

Two season's ago, our fans taunted Pitino about his GIGANTIC misstep with a bar maid (and everything that happened after). Even if some might say he deserved, people who pay for a ticket don't have the right to scream whatever suits them at the opposition.

Remember years ago when BC coach Jim O'Brien got into a shouting match with a campus security guard at Alumni Hall after a BC loss? He was upset that no one said anything to the students who were using profane language towards the BC team. Then a few years ago there was an article complaining about the douchebag chants from the STJ students towards families from visiting teams. Now an article in the NY Post. Regardless as to whether we agree or disagree with the chants or Lenn Robbins, I think we can all agree that this type of attention is never a good thing for the team or the University.

 

 

[redstorm89]

as a person who was at the game on thursday, there was a suck my johnny chant at this d-bag arizona fan but it was done by two ppl not the whole section. the u of gay chant was done by most of the student section and was not creative.  

 

[Class of 72]

 And to call us homophobic is just dumb...people on every single campus in america use the word gay as a synonym for being bad. Get a grip.

 

Hang in there kid! There is a big generation gap on this board Gay, like. Nigga, is used by young people of all races but its use has a place ......... At MSG, and in gay friendly Manhattan, it likely did not come across well. At Duke, it may have sounded wittier.

GAY:

When used with a derisive attitude (e.g. "that was so gay"), the word gay is pejorative. While retaining its other meanings, it has also acquired "a widespread current usage" amongst young people, as a general term of disparagement.[31][32] This pejorative usage has its origins in the late 1970s. Beginning in the 1980s and especially in the late 1990s, the usage as a generic insult became common among young people.[32]

 

[Section3]

Do the students in those sections receive free tickets?

If so, then the admin ought to threaten to take away an offender's ticket. I agree that student sections are going to make some borderline offensive chants - but they should and do know the difference between generally accepted chants (e.g. "Syracuse sucks") and those that are just downright wrong. "U R Gay" is unimaginative and embarassing.

 

[redstorm89]

no tickets were not free. 

 

[STJ11Redmen]

Do the students in those sections receive free tickets?

If so, then the admin ought to threaten to take away an offender's ticket. I agree that student sections are going to make some borderline offensive chants - but they should and do know the difference between generally accepted chants (e.g. "Syracuse sucks") and those that are just downright wrong. "U R Gay" is unimaginative and embarassing.

 

We pay for our tickets...and you know whats really embarrassing? Having a pac-12 team outnumber our fans by a few thousand in our own building. Take our tickets and you might as well play in the church. Would be louder in there.