Revamped Big East

Any team joining the ACC as a basketball only school is an idea that only exists on message boards. It flies in the face of logic, current events, and common sense. To those who proposed the idea, I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Funny...but wrong.

It makes PLENTY of sense.

The ACC is building a HOOPS powerhouse conference that also plays football.

Adding two more elite Hoops programs makes that end goal even stronger and it doesn't dip into the football money they are dividing up. Its a win-win for them.

Especially if they get SJU and its relationship with MSG.

It's not likely to happen but it makes plenty of sense
 
 Its a sad day for Big East and St. Johns...In fact, it has been a brutal month...How things can go 360 all of a sudden.

Personally, Uconn will leave and Rutgers will end up in the ACC as well...Then we are left with only basketball schools and players really will have no motivation to take part in this conference.

SJU is not going to the $$$ ACC $$$
 
Sadly, I think you're over-stating the importance of St. John's relationship with Madison Square Garden.

Let's see... you're running MSG. You have the choice of signing a deal to host a basketball tournament that will feature Duke (practically a home team at MSG at this point anyway), Syracuse (ditto), Carolina, Pitt (does an outstanding job recruiting NYC kids) and possibly Connecticut... or one with St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall and some schools from Iowa and Kansas.

That's no choice at all.

If the ACC even considers taking St. John's, it is because they feel like having a school in the New York market is valuable to them when negotiating television deals. And that's the only reason.
 
Any team joining the ACC as a basketball only school is an idea that only exists on message boards. It flies in the face of logic, current events, and common sense. To those who proposed the idea, I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Click to expand...
 

Funny...but wrong.

It makes PLENTY of sense.

The ACC is building a HOOPS powerhouse conference that also plays football.

Adding two more elite Hoops programs makes that end goal even stronger and it doesn't dip into the football money they are dividing up. Its a win-win for them.

Especially if they get SJU and its relationship with MSG.

It's not likely to happen but it makes plenty of sense
Click to expand...
 

You are dreaming...There is no way ACC takes SJU because of the MSG access...SJU will find a home, in either the new conference or be accepted in a decent conference willing to take on what NYC and MSG has to offer. But right now, ACC sees little in SJU other then Steve Lavin running the bball program
 
If you were to have a football and a basketball only governing body (whatever would come after ncaa in this scenario) how would non revenue sports exist and or survive? Would this agent still require a given university's football/basketball program to, under Title IX, fund the non-revenue / women's athletic programs?

it's a huge question, Fun i think has been the only one to touch upon it . we can all thump our chest and sound the battle cry for RAWR I LOVE COLLEGE FOOTBALL/BASKETBALL RAWRRRR but then there's a federal law that mandates how that money is distributed; my question is how would superconferences / football only, whatever, exist in a Title IX world?
 
In two years the Big East will be the equivalent of the A-10, if it exists at all.

The conference cannot and will not be a destination for football programs from other conferences. Those programs will be absorbed into the four mega-conferences that are forming.

St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul have nowhere to go, so they will remain.

If they are lucky, then Georgetown and Marquette will remain. I do think that's likely, because I don' t see the other conferences looking for basketball-only members. If they don't, then that's truly the end of the Big East.

If they are really lucky, then Villanova will stay also. If Villanova stays, if the other programs remain competitive in basketball, and if ND continues as an independent instead of joining the Big 10, they may hold on to ND also. That's really the best-case scenario for the continuation of the league.

Those 8 teams would have to add something like four other basketball schools to make a go of it. Fordham, URI, UMass, Dayton, perhaps Xavier, St Joe's would be the type of school that would fit.

One would assume that this conference would retain the Big East name if only because none of the other conferences would want to give up their own to steal that too.

Such a conference would be a 2 or 3 bid conference to the NCAA tournament, if it continues to exist. Otherwise it would be very competitive in whatever second-tier tournament supplements the mega-conference tournament. Maybe they will call theirs the NCAA tournament and we will be playing in the NIT, who knows.

The alternative scenario is that some schools with football programs get left without chairs when the music stops, and the "Big East" basketball schools partner up with second-tier football schools, which would require the conference to be somewhat larger, but really no better.

The bottom line is that this is going to devastate the remaining Big East schools both financially and competitively. It is certainly possible that one or more of the schools will continue to be national players in basketball (see Davidson, Butler, Gonzaga), but it will be as exceptions to the rule in a mediocre conference, rather than as mediocre schools in an exceptional conference.

What a shame for the Big East, and what a pity that this occurs just as SJU is trying valiantly to make a comeback.
 
Sadly, I think you're over-stating the importance of St. John's relationship with Madison Square Garden.

Let's see... you're running MSG. You have the choice of signing a deal to host a basketball tournament that will feature Duke (practically a home team at MSG at this point anyway), Syracuse (ditto), Carolina, Pitt (does an outstanding job recruiting NYC kids) and possibly Connecticut... or one with St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall and some schools from Iowa and Kansas.

That's no choice at all.

If the ACC even considers taking St. John's, it is because they feel like having a school in the New York market is valuable to them when negotiating television deals. And that's the only reason.
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That's the only reason SJU existed at all anyway, the way the previous regimes acted, Now they are ready to compete
on the whole stage but the stage is falling.
 
Hopefully there's a big thinker among the eight Catholic schools that tries to convince Kansas to go football-only in the MAAC, WAC, or Mountain West, and invites them to the Big East for all other sports. And ask Temple and Xavier to join.

Last time I checked, the MAAC is uneven in terms of football membership because Temple is the 13th team.
 
Class of 72 --

I've had this discussion so many times on this board that it is almost a rote exercise at this point.

First things first, the Big east as we have known it no longer exists. Cuse and Pitt and gone and UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, etc are heading for the exits.

Secondly, that is a good thing. Here's why:

In the Too Big East we were playing against many large public universities with taxpayer resources (UConn, WVU, Rutgers) and private schools enriched by 1A football (Pitt, Louisville, Cuse, etc.). We will NEVER have the resources of these schools, and we will be perennially at a disadvantage.

We should be in a conference with like-minded and similarly-resourced institutions. The Too Big East will never ever be that.

The new Catholic League outlined above would be a very valuable TV league. It would include the following major markets NY, DC, Philly, Chicago, as well as several secondary markets (Cincinatti, Milwaukee, Providence -- which gives entree into New England).

This is a no-brainer.
 
First we need a leader, to lead us.

I love the comment of making the ACC more of a BB powerhouse, but still a weak FB conference. I thought that was the problem with the BE, so why switch.

We should have added the Big 12 schools. It would have made our FB program stronger, as well as our BB program. 

If we become a strictly BB conference we should go after schools like Butler, as well as those mentioned already.

Remember when the BE was created, the power teams were Syracuse, Villanova, and St. John's, followed shortly by Georgetown. UC came a bit later as a power.
 
Finally, someone that sees the scenario very clearly. Agree with most everything you say, lawmanfan. Please eliminate URI, UMASS and Fordham from your solution, however.

Those who doubt the dire situation at hand, please explain to me how the Catholic Conference will:

A retain top quality coaches from defecting to the super conferences with super $$$$ at their disposal
B considering A above, expect to attract the type of recruit to win against the best teams in the land
C considering A & B above, expect to write a lucrative TV contract.

I don't see a lot of recruits getting excited about Fordham v UMass. I don';t see a lot of TV viewers dialing that gem in, either.

In two years the Big East will be the equivalent of the A-10, if it exists at all.

The conference cannot and will not be a destination for football programs from other conferences. Those programs will be absorbed into the four mega-conferences that are forming.

St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul have nowhere to go, so they will remain.

If they are lucky, then Georgetown and Marquette will remain. I do think that's likely, because I don' t see the other conferences looking for basketball-only members. If they don't, then that's truly the end of the Big East.

If they are really lucky, then Villanova will stay also. If Villanova stays, if the other programs remain competitive in basketball, and if ND continues as an independent instead of joining the Big 10, they may hold on to ND also. That's really the best-case scenario for the continuation of the league.

Those 8 teams would have to add something like four other basketball schools to make a go of it. Fordham, URI, UMass, Dayton, perhaps Xavier, St Joe's would be the type of school that would fit.

One would assume that this conference would retain the Big East name if only because none of the other conferences would want to give up their own to steal that too.

Such a conference would be a 2 or 3 bid conference to the NCAA tournament, if it continues to exist. Otherwise it would be very competitive in whatever second-tier tournament supplements the mega-conference tournament. Maybe they will call theirs the NCAA tournament and we will be playing in the NIT, who knows.

The alternative scenario is that some schools with football programs get left without chairs when the music stops, and the "Big East" basketball schools partner up with second-tier football schools, which would require the conference to be somewhat larger, but really no better.

The bottom line is that this is going to devastate the remaining Big East schools both financially and competitively. It is certainly possible that one or more of the schools will continue to be national players in basketball (see Davidson, Butler, Gonzaga), but it will be as exceptions to the rule in a mediocre conference, rather than as mediocre schools in an exceptional conference.

What a shame for the Big East, and what a pity that this occurs just as SJU is trying valiantly to make a comeback.
Click to expand...
 
 
Class of 72 --

I've had this discussion so many times on this board that it is almost a rote exercise at this point.

First things first, the Big east as we have known it no longer exists. Cuse and Pitt and gone and UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, etc are heading for the exits.

Secondly, that is a good thing. Here's why:

In the Too Big East we were playing against many large public universities with taxpayer resources (UConn, WVU, Rutgers) and private schools enriched by 1A football (Pitt, Louisville, Cuse, etc.). We will NEVER have the resources of these schools, and we will be perennially at a disadvantage.

We should be in a conference with like-minded and similarly-resourced institutions. The Too Big East will never ever be that.

The new Catholic League outlined above would be a very valuable TV league. It would include the following major markets NY, DC, Philly, Chicago, as well as several secondary markets (Cincinatti, Milwaukee, Providence -- which gives entree into New England).

This is a no-brainer.
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The problem with your assessment is that basketball money is peanuts compared to football money. That's why the football schools are gone.

There might be a league, but it won't be a very good or very profitable one.
 
FWIW, here's a comment from Coach Carnesecca on the whole matter:

 http://espn.go.com/new-york/ncb/story/_/id/6992439/shock-big-east-fails

An optomisitic take, if you ask me, but not totally unreasonable.
 
 Message to remaining Big East schools : Uconn, Villanova, UWV, Rutgers ----You may be BEGGING the ACC for a spot in the greed conference but they are at 14 already. Their outside number is 16. You are all at the bottom of their wish list and most likely will not be acceptd this year. Unless you turds find a new home ASAP you will live with EGG on your collective faces for a very very long time, especially if you remain in the Big East. The ACC has done nothing here that guarantees a better football conference. They have added two basketball powers whose coaches may not coach a single day in the ACC. None of you learned your greedy lessons from the Miami and BC moves. Neither has excelled, let alone dominate, either sport in the ACC. NONE of you add any football value---NONE. So just pray that one or some can form or merge into what is left of the football scavengers. 

BTW, all the dust will settle once Texas and Oklahoma decide. The SEC wants TxA&M and another super football school. The ACC wants two major football schools with mid-major BB potential so as not to challenge Duke and UNC in BB and FlaTech, Clemson and VaTech in football. The PAC 12 is all but done with its process awaiting Texas so remaining Big East schools take heart! There may just be nowhere for the remaining scumbag football schools to go that is any better than the weakened Big East!!
 
 First time posting since the board was redone. Looks good!

In any event, I can see the Big East existing in the Catholic-type league listed above with G'town, St. John's, SHU, PC, etc. I don't get the comments on Villanova moving anywhere aside from the league they're in currently. It will take years for them to build a DI-A football program they've decided against building a number of times already, and even if that happened, what conference would take them? Villanova's lot has to be cast in the same boat as ours.

If we do end up in this morass of G'town, STJ, SHU, PC, and 'Nova, might as well keep Marquette and DePaul and add Dayton, Xavier, and, say, St. Joe's to the mix. You've got yourself a pretty strong basketball league right there.
 
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