Realistic View of 2019 Recruiting

[quote="fordham96" post=293931][quote="OLV72" post=293827]Old School,


Mullin's third season was a one game difference with Lavin's [/quote]

Mullins 3rd season was 4-14, Lavins was 8-10 in conference that's not 1 game. Furthermore Lavin went to NIT that 3rd year....team collapsed at the end when they suspended Harrison.[/quote]

Fordham, what was each teams record for the full season?
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=293972]Seems like this thread has morphed into the "endless repetitive/negative chatter thread". Oh well....season starts soon and then we can judge by results.[/quote]

I am not a Mullin basher. By no means, am I that.
I luv the guy, but nobody is 'bigger' than the University---nor should they be.
At the risk of massive repetition,however, I will say one mo' time that it is critical St. John's has a fully-staffed, fully-functioning coaching staff--with or without Mitch--and the future of the program depends on that.
The sooner it happens, the better.
Yes, results (winning) drive the bus, but that does not mean 'winning' for 1 season out-of-four, but winning consistently, year-in-and-year-out.
Let the games begin, indeed.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=293965]Greg recruited Jordan Brown and Joe Gerard. He has not landed a player since he has been here and recruiting may not be his forte. That said, he works hard, kids like him and he has a nice hoops future. Mitch has not personally targeted a player since his promotion and I sense he may have absented himself from that duty prior to taking the AC slot. Nothing much more to say on that.

Matt is not perfect, but if he ever chose to split there is no one on staff who has a clue re playing transfer game. It is not as easy as one thinks. He hawks this area all season long. I hate being held hostage & frankly having such dependence on Matt is a train wreck waiting to happen imo.[/quote]

I don't disagree with this at all.
 
[quote="OLV72" post=293975][quote="fordham96" post=293931][quote="OLV72" post=293827]Old School,


Mullin's third season was a one game difference with Lavin's [/quote]

Mullins 3rd season was 4-14, Lavins was 8-10 in conference that's not 1 game. Furthermore Lavin went to NIT that 3rd year....team collapsed at the end when they suspended Harrison.[/quote]

Fordham, what was each teams record for the full season?[/quote]

I think the 12-13 team finished 17-16 but come on, overall? The team last year was 10 games under .500 in the League, I dont care what the overall record was you cant compare that to a team that actually participated in the NIT. Last years team was a monumental disappointment save for a few games. Last years team lost by double digits at home to DePaul and got swept by Georgetown along with going 4-14 and finishing tied for last in conference. End of story.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=293965]Greg recruited Jordan Brown and Joe Gerard. He has not landed a player since he has been here and recruiting may not be his forte. That said, he works hard, kids like him and he has a nice hoops future. Mitch has not personally targeted a player since his promotion and I sense he may have absented himself from that duty prior to taking the AC slot. Nothing much more to say on that.

Matt is not perfect, but if he ever chose to split there is no one on staff who has a clue re playing transfer game. It is not as easy as one thinks. He hawks this area all season long. I hate being held hostage & frankly having such dependence on Matt is a train wreck waiting to happen imo.[/quote] That statement about Mitch is inexcusable. And it’s not like Mullin is killing it on the recruiting trail Hence all the repetitive chatter about getting a new AC.
 
Chicago Days wrote: I am not a Mullin basher. By no means, am I that.
I luv the guy, but nobody is 'bigger' than the University---or should they be.
At the risk of massive repetition,however, I will say one mo' time that it is critical St. John's has a fully-staffed, fully-functioning coaching staff--with or without Mitch--and the future of the program depends on that.
The sooner it happens, the better.
Yes, results (winning) drive the bus, but that does not mean 'winning' for 1 season out-of-four, but winning consistently, year-in-and-year-out.
Let the games begin, indeed.

Chicago, I am not an insider by any means. Because of that, I do not feel qualified to speculate on what is happening with the staff or to judge whether our coach is being stubborn in not making changes. He may have his reasons, I don't know. What I do feel qualified to judge is results as any fan does. This year is a key one for the staff and our program. I hope the results are good and if they aren't that is on the staff. Clearly one good year followed by more mediocrity won't cut it. I am quietly confident they will do more than that but I could be wrong as I am the eternal optimist. Time will tell. Let's go Johnnies.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=293980]Chicago Days wrote: I am not a Mullin basher. By no means, am I that.
I luv the guy, but nobody is 'bigger' than the University---or should they be.
At the risk of massive repetition,however, I will say one mo' time that it is critical St. John's has a fully-staffed, fully-functioning coaching staff--with or without Mitch--and the future of the program depends on that.
The sooner it happens, the better.
Yes, results (winning) drive the bus, but that does not mean 'winning' for 1 season out-of-four, but winning consistently, year-in-and-year-out.
Let the games begin, indeed.

Chicago, I am not an insider by any means. Because of that, I do not feel qualified to speculate on what is happening with the staff or to judge whether our coach is being stubborn in not making changes. He may have his reasons, I don't know. What I do feel qualified to judge is results as any fan does. This year is a key one for the staff and our program. I hope the results are good and if they aren't that is on the staff. Clearly one good year followed by more mediocrity won't cut it. I am quietly confident they will do more than that but I could be wrong as I am the eternal optimist. Time will tell.[/quote]

NCJohnnies, I hope that you took that 'eternal optimist' label from me--just temporarily!
I am naturally a glass half-full guy, and I bleed Red and White.
Let's go St. John's!
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=293965]Greg recruited Jordan Brown and Joe Gerard. He has not landed a player since he has been here and recruiting may not be his forte. That said, he works hard, kids like him and he has a nice hoops future. Mitch has not personally targeted a player since his promotion and I sense he may have absented himself from that duty prior to taking the AC slot. Nothing much more to say on that.

Matt is not perfect, but if he ever chose to split there is no one on staff who has a clue re playing transfer game. It is not as easy as one thinks. He hawks this area all season long. I hate being held hostage & frankly having such dependence on Matt is a train wreck waiting to happen imo.[/quote]

Agree.

Those of us who have been around awhile can separate the bright prospects for this season from the dysfunction that, if not addressed, will eventually cause us to crash, burn and return to square one.
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=293978][quote="OLV72" post=293975][quote="fordham96" post=293931][quote="OLV72" post=293827]Old School,


Mullin's third season was a one game difference with Lavin's [/quote]

Mullins 3rd season was 4-14, Lavins was 8-10 in conference that's not 1 game. Furthermore Lavin went to NIT that 3rd year....team collapsed at the end when they suspended Harrison.[/quote]

Fordham, what was each teams record for the full season?[/quote]

I think the 12-13 team finished 17-16 but come on, overall? The team last year was 10 games under .500 in the League, I dont care what the overall record was you cant compare that to a team that actually participated in the NIT. Last years team was a monumental disappointment save for a few games. Last years team lost by double digits at home to DePaul and got swept by Georgetown along with going 4-14 and finishing tied for last in conference. End of story.[/quote]

End of story? Its easy to see Mullin's year three team finished out stronger with their final win against GTOWN in the BET. We'll soon see who has a stronger year four.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=293979]That statement about Mitch is inexcusable. And it’s not like Mullin is killing it on the recruiting trail Hence all the repetitive chatter about getting a new AC.[/quote]

Neither one is killing it.

As, I stated before.... Whether, it's consciously or subconsciously; people are salivating about an assistant coach because they don't particularly feel we have a head coach.

People also found Rice intriguing because they know he'd be an upgrade per coaching and he could've potentially brought Lewis and Igiehon along with him.
 
[quote="OLV72" post=293984][quote="fordham96" post=293978][quote="OLV72" post=293975][quote="fordham96" post=293931][quote="OLV72" post=293827]Old School,


Mullin's third season was a one game difference with Lavin's [/quote]

Mullins 3rd season was 4-14, Lavins was 8-10 in conference that's not 1 game. Furthermore Lavin went to NIT that 3rd year....team collapsed at the end when they suspended Harrison.[/quote]

Fordham, what was each teams record for the full season?[/quote]

I think the 12-13 team finished 17-16 but come on, overall? The team last year was 10 games under .500 in the League, I dont care what the overall record was you cant compare that to a team that actually participated in the NIT. Last years team was a monumental disappointment save for a few games. Last years team lost by double digits at home to DePaul and got swept by Georgetown along with going 4-14 and finishing tied for last in conference. End of story.[/quote]

End of story? Its easy to see Mullin's year three team finished out stronger with their final win against GTOWN in the BET. We'll soon see who has a stronger year four.[/quote]

You still somewhat avoided his reply. Winning their final game against Georgetown isn't something to where folks are hootin' and hollerin'. I expected to beat Georgetown in the Big East Tournament, as I expected us to sweep 'em last season, instead of getting swept.

Some posters continue to harp on this upcoming season, as the upcoming season isn't what most of us have any concernment. At least, not as a whole. I wish some of y'all would get that through your thick skulls.

There are fundamental flaws which could seriously derail this train. Besides, if it was strictly about one particular season, then Lavin would've remained at St. John's after the 2014-2015 season, right? I'm more than sure several posters would also be ecstatic if our 2018-2019 season turned out like that particular season.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=293965]Greg recruited Jordan Brown and Joe Gerard. He has not landed a player since he has been here and recruiting may not be his forte. That said, he works hard, kids like him and he has a nice hoops future. Mitch has not personally targeted a player since his promotion and I sense he may have absented himself from that duty prior to taking the AC slot. Nothing much more to say on that.

Matt is not perfect, but if he ever chose to split there is no one on staff who has a clue re playing transfer game. It is not as easy as one thinks. He hawks this area all season long. I hate being held hostage & frankly having such dependence on Matt is a train wreck waiting to happen imo.[/quote]

Good assessment. I believe that gsj and cm both make very good impressions on recruits, but as part of the process of evaluating where a kid wants to play, and not the hard core selling matt does. In effect, selling the school, the program and the staff.

Agree that putting all your recruiting eggs in one basket is insane. To my knowledge matt loves st. John's, loves working with chris, and all things being equal, this is his dream job.

Problem as we know all things are not equal, and there are other factors that could cause him to leave. One thing I've learned after years and years is that while loyalty goes a long way with your best employees, occasionally you are stunned when a highly valued person leaves.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=293989][quote="OLV72" post=293984][quote="fordham96" post=293978][quote="OLV72" post=293975][quote="fordham96" post=293931][quote="OLV72" post=293827]Old School,


Mullin's third season was a one game difference with Lavin's [/quote]

Mullins 3rd season was 4-14, Lavins was 8-10 in conference that's not 1 game. Furthermore Lavin went to NIT that 3rd year....team collapsed at the end when they suspended Harrison.[/quote]

Fordham, what was each teams record for the full season?[/quote]

I think the 12-13 team finished 17-16 but come on, overall? The team last year was 10 games under .500 in the League, I dont care what the overall record was you cant compare that to a team that actually participated in the NIT. Last years team was a monumental disappointment save for a few games. Last years team lost by double digits at home to DePaul and got swept by Georgetown along with going 4-14 and finishing tied for last in conference. End of story.[/quote]

End of story? Its easy to see Mullin's year three team finished out stronger with their final win against GTOWN in the BET. We'll soon see who has a stronger year four.[/quote]

You still somewhat avoided his reply. Winning their final game against Georgetown isn't something to where folks are hootin' and hollerin'. I expected to beat Georgetown in the Big East Tournament, as I expected us to sweep 'em last season, instead of getting swept.

Some posters continue to harp on this upcoming season, as the upcoming season isn't what most of us have any concernment. At least, not as a whole. I wish some of y'all would get that through your thick skulls.

There are fundamental flaws which could seriously derail this train. Besides, if it was strictly about one particular season, then Lavin would've remained at St. John's after the 2014-2015 season, right? I'm more than sure several posters would also be ecstatic if our 2018-2019 season turned out like that particular season.[/quote]

A post drew comparison to Lavin. So I looked up the records in years three and four. They were disappointing seasons and not a whole lot better than last season.

You’re convinced that this staff is a disaster with the current talented roster an illusion on the road to failure.

A few of us think there’s improvement year to year and that the future might be better than you think.

At least we can all agree that we want the team and it’s coaches to be successful next season and beyond next season.
 
OMG did someone say beating a 5-13 Georgetown team in the BE Tourney is comparable to making the NIT. There is no way that is a serious comment. No way.

So by definition since Lavin's last team lost to Providence in the BET and then San Diego St in the NCAA's last year's team was comparable to that team because get ready for it folks, they beat a 5-13 Georgetown team in the play in round of their own conference Tourney.

And evidently that is a serious poster.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293996]OMG did someone say beating a 5-13 Georgetown team in the BE Tourney is comparable to making the NIT. There is no way that is a serious comment. No way.

So by definition since Lavin's last team lost to Providence in the BET and then San Diego St in the NCAA's last year's team was comparable to that team because get ready for it folks, they beat a 5-13 Georgetown team in the play in round of their own conference Tourney.

And evidently that is a serious poster.[/quote]

Of course you can't take that seriously. But what you can't deny is that last season's undermanned team played competitively nearly the entire schedule, never gaveup, and learned how to win after losing 2nd best player with an already thin rotation,

They should have and could have beaten Georgetown 3 times, but it was still an accomplishment to finally prevail over them in the BET.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=294000][quote="fordham96" post=293996]OMG did someone say beating a 5-13 Georgetown team in the BE Tourney is comparable to making the NIT. There is no way that is a serious comment. No way.

So by definition since Lavin's last team lost to Providence in the BET and then San Diego St in the NCAA's last year's team was comparable to that team because get ready for it folks, they beat a 5-13 Georgetown team in the play in round of their own conference Tourney.

And evidently that is a serious poster.[/quote]

Of course you can't take that seriously. But what you can't deny is that last season's undermanned team played competitively nearly the entire schedule, never gaveup, and learned how to win after losing 2nd best player with an already thin rotation,

They should have and could have beaten Georgetown 3 times, but it was still an accomplishment to finally prevail over them in the BET.[/quote]

Very true, Beast. It was an agonizing and frustrating year--because it could've been much more. Losing LoVett was monumental, but the team--as undermanned as it was--did not quit. Three - four games could've gone our way.
Hopefully, a very good sign that Mullin's teams do not quit--and next year, very deep in talent, watch out.
Should be a very exciting season in a conference that doesn't look all that 'down' to me.
Nova is still Nova and some teams like Xavier and the Hall may have lost some talent, but others like us and Marquette have reloaded, and Providence and Butler still look tough.
 
Seems to me that CM is putting himself into a position where fans will turn on him if they don't have a good year. I don't mean turning on him as a person or a player, but certainty as a coach things could get ugly.

Most of us gave him a "pass"/"another chance" last year despite the 11 game losing streak, because we liked the effort and recovery vs Duke/Nova. But no matter the fan base, winning is the only thing that matters at the end of the day. It's only a matter of time before we lose our patience.

CM this off-season has given people ammo with multiple questionable moves. Sure, Ponds and possibly Heron will be on the roster this season which is awesome. But why create such an awful schedule? Why all the Rice drama? Wins and losses can't be completely controlled, while these are 100% on him.

Maybe we make the Tournament next year and none of this matters. Maybe we even dominate the OOC and Mitch is a positive factor, thus making these good moves on CM's part. If we don't see results, however, people won't be understanding. He will have only himself to blame.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=294011][quote="Beast of the East" post=294000][quote="fordham96" post=293996]OMG did someone say beating a 5-13 Georgetown team in the BE Tourney is comparable to making the NIT. There is no way that is a serious comment. No way.

So by definition since Lavin's last team lost to Providence in the BET and then San Diego St in the NCAA's last year's team was comparable to that team because get ready for it folks, they beat a 5-13 Georgetown team in the play in round of their own conference Tourney.

And evidently that is a serious poster.[/quote]

Of course you can't take that seriously. But what you can't deny is that last season's undermanned team played competitively nearly the entire schedule, never gaveup, and learned how to win after losing 2nd best player with an already thin rotation,

They should have and could have beaten Georgetown 3 times, but it was still an accomplishment to finally prevail over them in the BET.[/quote]

Very true, Beast. It was an agonizing and frustrating year--because it could've been much more. Losing LoVett was monumental, but the team--as undermanned as it was--did not quit. Three - four games could've gone our way.
Hopefully, a very good sign that Mullin's teams do not quit--and next year, very deep in talent, watch out.
Should be a very exciting season in a conference that doesn't look all that 'down' to me.
Nova is still Nova and some teams like Xavier and the Hall may have lost some talent, but others like us and Marquette have reloaded, and Providence and Butler still look tough.[/quote]


No I dont give him points for that either in terms of competitiveness. That works both ways.

Look at their 4 wins. EASILY could have lost 3 of them. Easily. Butler choked the game away at Carnesecca. DePaul had a lead late before Ponds got hot. I thought they outplayed Nova but still that was a 1 point game with less than a minute.

The only league game they won last year where you can argue they clearly outplayed and felt comfortable with a minute was Marquette at home. The fact is they were closer to being 1-17 then say 9-9. So 4-14 was about right.

The year before I have stated this a dozen times they finished 7-11. Look at the 11 losses, they were totally NON competitive in all of them. I believe they trailed at halftime in everyone of those games and trailed by double digits in the second half in EVERY loss. Meanwhile a couple of their wins were very tight. Could have finished 5-13 easily.

The fact is his 12-42 League record could actually be a lot worse...
 
One last thing, this year should be a good year. But dont overstate the first 3 years. They haven't been good. And in Lavin's 5 years he took 2 teams to the NIT and two teams to the NCAA.

And undermanned? His 1 non post season team was year 2 where he had all freshmen and no bench and he had cancer. That team went 6-12 in league play. So far I wouldn't put any of Mullin's 3 years with those 4 post season teams. And mind you I dont think those were great years. Now you know why some of us are frustrated. We are having trouble meeting mediocrity let alone doing what we ultimately want, competing with Villanova.
 
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We are poised to have a very nice year this year....can't stand this negativity all the time over and over. Seriously?? Just look forward to this year and then bitch and complain IF we don't have a good season and IF we can't recruit to make most on here happy. To keep beating it over our heads serves absolutely no purpose except to negatively spin our team to the world. and of course the players read these sites so don't tell me it might not influence them at all. Great recruiting tool against us. I get we all have opinions. But be a little smarter sometimes in how you bash us.
 
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