Rasheem Dunn Waiver Denied (APPEAL WON)

[quote="JohnnyFan" post=361437][quote="P Simmons" post=361432]Question: If Dunn was denied the waiver appeal, could he still go back to Cleveland State and play immediately? He obviously doesn't want that as a first choice, but just curious if he has a fallback position.[/quote]

No. He's taking classes at SJU, so going back to Cleveland State would represent another transfer.[/quote]

Forgot the 'transfer piece' JF, but this is NCAA World aka The Twilight Zone...so strange things are certain to happen, lol.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=361433][quote="Paultzman" post=361431]Suspect situation will be clearer in next week or so.[/quote]

No info at all, but I get the feeling we end up winning this one. Hopefully soon enough.[/quote]

Hopefully, the 4400+ petition signings and some support from the media has helped.
 
The more I see this the more pissed I’m getting.

Jemarl Baker player 28 games last year at Kentucky averaging 9 mins a game. He is from LA but now he is immediately eligible at Arizona.

Alex Barcello left Arizona because of the violations and is immediately eligible at BYU now.

What’s the difference between violations and a coach getting fired. Ncaa is really a bunch of corrupt dbags
 
Moose wrote: The more I see this the more pissed I’m getting.

Jemarl Baker player 28 games last year at Kentucky averaging 9 mins a game. He is from LA but now he is immediately eligible at Arizona.

Alex Barcello left Arizona because of the violations and is immediately eligible at BYU now.

What’s the difference between violations and a coach getting fired. Ncaa is really a bunch of corrupt dbags

Petitions are all well & good but sometimes you need to seriously lawyer up. That is what NCAA will understand.
 
[quote="Moose" post=361459]The more I see this the more pissed I’m getting.

Jemarl Baker player 28 games last year at Kentucky averaging 9 mins a game. He is from LA but now he is immediately eligible at Arizona.

Alex Barcello left Arizona because of the violations and is immediately eligible at BYU now.

What’s the difference between violations and a coach getting fired. Ncaa is really a bunch of corrupt dbags[/quote]

Yes they are - except you forgot thieving in your description.
 
Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=361475]Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.[/quote]
———-

Has StJohn’s retained outside counsel ?
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=361475]Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.[/quote]

From what I got, wouldn’t be surprised if it they get an answer today.
 
[quote="Big Red" post=361491][quote="Paultzman" post=361475]Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.[/quote]

From what I got, wouldn’t be surprised if it they get an answer today.[/quote]
Seems common read today or Monday
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=361493][quote="Big Red" post=361491][quote="Paultzman" post=361475]Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.[/quote]

From what I got, wouldn’t be surprised if it they get an answer today.[/quote]
Seems common read today or Monday[/quote]

Fingers are crossed and the smell of incense is heavy in the air.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=361495][quote="Paultzman" post=361493][quote="Big Red" post=361491][quote="Paultzman" post=361475]Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.[/quote]

From what I got, wouldn’t be surprised if it they get an answer today.[/quote]
Seems common read today or Monday[/quote]

Fingers are crossed and the smell of incense is heavy in the air.[/quote]

See what I don't get is the phrase " submission of additional information ". What could they possibly leave out ". There is no leave out. I'm sure you lawyers, brokers, and business people out there would never lose a case or a sale because you underestimated the amount of information necessary . That's insane. I've written hundreds of proposals and while I did not get every sale I never lost one because I didn't supply all the information, and then some. It's sounds like we're very lucky to get a second chance. Don't blow it.
 
[quote="kred" post=361498][quote="Chicago Days" post=361495][quote="Paultzman" post=361493][quote="Big Red" post=361491][quote="Paultzman" post=361475]Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.[/quote]

From what I got, wouldn’t be surprised if it they get an answer today.[/quote]
Seems common read today or Monday[/quote]

Fingers are crossed and the smell of incense is heavy in the air.[/quote]

See what I don't get is the phrase " submission of additional information ". What could they possibly leave out ". There is no leave out. I'm sure you lawyers, brokers, and business people out there would never lose a case or a sale because you underestimated the amount of information necessary . That's insane. I've written hundreds of proposals and while I did not get every sale I never lost one because I didn't supply all the information, and then some. It's sounds like we're very lucky to get a second chance. Don't blow it.[/quote]

You're right about that, kred. But when called to make your case again, it's common to bring additional selling points to argue why you should win.
Just wondering if Rasheem Dunn submitted a statement profiling the CSU program's implosion (roster down to 6, friends leaving) and the shock of losing his coach in mid-July as the event that triggered his decision to transfer?
Not sure if that matters to the NCAA but it should since it weakens CSU's complaint that they invested a schollie in Dunn imo.
 
[quote="kred" post=361498][quote="Chicago Days" post=361495][quote="Paultzman" post=361493][quote="Big Red" post=361491][quote="Paultzman" post=361475]Getting sense SJU has completed submission of additional info to NCAA and expects response quite soon. If that does not have a positive outcome, one would expect formal appeal process to commence. I trust Cragg’s diplomatic skills, reading the terrain and remain positive about outcome. Just my new found optimism.[/quote]

From what I got, wouldn’t be surprised if it they get an answer today.[/quote]
Seems common read today or Monday[/quote]

Fingers are crossed and the smell of incense is heavy in the air.[/quote]

See what I don't get is the phrase " submission of additional information ". What could they possibly leave out ". There is no leave out. I'm sure you lawyers, brokers, and business people out there would never lose a case or a sale because you underestimated the amount of information necessary . That's insane. I've written hundreds of proposals and while I did not get every sale I never lost one because I didn't supply all the information, and then some. It's sounds like we're very lucky to get a second chance. Don't blow it.[/quote]

I have no idea what the particulars are here but I do a tremendous amount of negotiating of contracts and one good rule of thumb is get whatever you can but always leave an adversary with a "face saving out" if you will. In a situation like this , a reversal. it could be that the request/submittal of "additional information" is just that, to give the NCAA a face saving out on the reversal. Pure 100% speculation on my part.
 
We are talking about a young man in Dunn who seemingly has done everything the right way, and in the end, he is the one who is being the most affected. But also, we need to be honest, for the people on this board, this is nothing about Dunn as a man/person, or about the NCAA in general. This is all about how this decision affects the success of the team this year. We care because it's happening at St Johns, not because it's an injustice to Dunn. If he was at another school, no one here would care at all. The online petition was great and all....but once again, that had nothing to do with Dunn as a person, and everything to do with Dunn's potential benefit to this year's team. There is nothing wrong with that approach, people here just need to be honest about it.

With that being said, at some point will we have to ask ourselves if this is all even worth it? Even if we win this appeal, how is it going to help us in the long run? The NCAA is going to view us as someone that does nothing but complain all the time....and I just don't see how that will ever be any benefit.
 
[quote="Eric Williamson" post=361514]We are talking about a young man in Dunn who seemingly has done everything the right way, and in the end, he is the one who is being the most affected. But also, we need to be honest, for the people on this board, this is nothing about Dunn as a man/person, or about the NCAA in general. This is all about how this decision affects the success of the team this year. We care because it's happening at St Johns, not because it's an injustice to Dunn. If he was at another school, no one here would care at all. The online petition was great and all....but once again, that had nothing to do with Dunn as a person, and everything to do with Dunn's potential benefit to this year's team. There is nothing wrong with that approach, people here just need to be honest about it.

With that being said, at some point will we have to ask ourselves if this is all even worth it? Even if we win this appeal, how is it going to help us in the long run? The NCAA is going to view us as someone that does nothing but complain all the time....and I just don't see how that will ever be any benefit.[/quote]

It's 100% worth it. If we don't fight back, then we'd be seen as pushovers and that'd also send a bad message to recruits. The first part I can agree with (that few would care if Dunn was denied a transfer elsewhere), but that doesn't mean we should sit back and accept the outcome. Someone has to stand up for him, and in this case it's St. John's and us fans.
 
[quote="Adam" post=361515][quote="Eric Williamson" post=361514]We are talking about a young man in Dunn who seemingly has done everything the right way, and in the end, he is the one who is being the most affected. But also, we need to be honest, for the people on this board, this is nothing about Dunn as a man/person, or about the NCAA in general. This is all about how this decision affects the success of the team this year. We care because it's happening at St Johns, not because it's an injustice to Dunn. If he was at another school, no one here would care at all. The online petition was great and all....but once again, that had nothing to do with Dunn as a person, and everything to do with Dunn's potential benefit to this year's team. There is nothing wrong with that approach, people here just need to be honest about it.

With that being said, at some point will we have to ask ourselves if this is all even worth it? Even if we win this appeal, how is it going to help us in the long run? The NCAA is going to view us as someone that does nothing but complain all the time....and I just don't see how that will ever be any benefit.[/quote]

It's 100% worth it. If we don't fight back, then we'd be seen as pushovers and that'd also send a bad message to recruits. The first part I can agree with (that few would care if Dunn was denied a transfer elsewhere), but that doesn't mean we should sit back and accept the outcome. Someone has to stand up for him, and in this case it's St. John's and us fans.[/quote]

I think it's accurate to say that this Board cares most about this case because Rasheem's fate at the hands of the NCAA impacts prospects for our season but many on this Board recognize how arbitrary the NCAA's decisions are and how preferential the Organization is to its pets.
So, this Board would be miffed imo about this decision even if the outcome weren't important to our season.
I also think many on the Board have said something like "this sucks for St. John's but Rasheem is really getting screwed by the NCAA stealing 50% of the kid's remaining eligibility".
 
I'm sorry but Rasheem is one of us and deserves our support. He is a St. John's student who upon graduation will be a fellow alum. As an alum, I support all of our students and that is part of the reason I am pissed about what is happening to the young man.
 
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