@Providence, Tue., Feb. 13, 7p, CBSSN

[RedmanMike]

I want to live or die with Dingle and Alleyne. I can accept losing like that. I cannot accept an A-10 combo guard that can’t defend his position dictating how our season ends.

This feels like Hardy’s junior year with Norm to be. Put the goddamn ball in Dingle’s hands and let it move. Why doesn’t Soriano screen for him? Change that immediately.

Dingle doesn't have a good enough handle to "put the ball in his hands." He loses the ball in traffic all the time, and he can't get his own shot.

I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.

Jenkins is a combo guard who is being forced to play the point, but I'd much rater have him with the ball in his hands than Dingle.

 

[MJDinkins]

One play last night that is very revealing to me regarding feeding Soriano. If I picked it correctly out of the play-by- play it was at the 7:38 mark, SJU was down 5 and resulted in a Jenkins TO.
Anyway, the play; Soriano established position, Oduro was on his back, Jenkins threw him a bounce pass but instead of bending, getting low, establishing contact withthe defender and holding position while meeting the ball, Soriano stood up, backed up, allowing Oduro to reach around and deflect the pass, Providence steal. Soriano neither fights for nor holds hard position. Doesn’t give a good target, nor does he catch the ball very well.

I vividly remember the play as I didn't think Soriano made himself "big enough" for the pass.

 

[Marillac2]

Dingle doesn't have a good enough handle to "put the ball in his hands." He loses the ball in traffic all the time, and he can't get his own shot.

I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.

Jenkins is a combo guard who is being forced to play the point, but I'd much rater have him with the ball in his hands than Dingle.

I strongly disagree about Dingle’s handle.

Nobody is forcing Jenkins to try to be Iverson but himself.

 

[Jack Williams]

I want to live or die with Dingle and Alleyne. I can accept losing like that. I cannot accept an A-10 combo guard that can’t defend his position dictating how our season ends.

This feels like Hardy’s junior year with Norm to be. Put the goddamn ball in Dingle’s hands and let it move. Why doesn’t Soriano screen for him? Change that immediately.

Didn't you watch the game last night? We DID die with Dingle and Alleyne. They both stunk up the joint in the second half. They GET OPPORTUNITIES AND THEY MISS.

stop gaslighting everyone here by acting like Jenkins is the bad guy at the end of a scooby doo episode who they rip the mask off of. I watched, with my two eyeballs, Alleyne miss multiple WIDE OPEN looks in pivotal moments in EACH of our last two games. He got two beautiful mid range looks late last night. Big possessions. He bricked. Dingle tried to hit multiple momentum altering threes in the second half. The BEST of those attempts barely grazed rim. and I mean BARELY.

Yea, Jenkins misses shots too, he has missed several big shots, and did last night as well. But he at LEAST shows a pulse in these games, and as a result is the guy that gets the shots.

Because he's the guy who hits the big midrange out of a timeout in the second half when the game was slipping away. Because HE was the guy who hit an outside shot to tie the game at 70 with a minute to go. Because HE hits those shots, HE gets to take the big shot down 3.

If any of these other frauds deserved these shots, we are all waiting for them to prove it. Luis is maybe the only other guy who was showing any semblance of shot making ability in the second half. But of course, he was 0-3 from downtown to that point, and we needed a 3

 

[dk423]

I'm done with Dingle. Not sure how anyone can't be at this point.

We can enjoy conjecturing on why he's been so bad, but he just is and it's not going to get better.

 

[dk423]

Since the turn of the new year. Dingle is averaging 9 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.8 assists with 1.5 turnovers. 37% FG on 9 attempts, 24% 3pt on 4.5 attempts.

Not sure how we're back to the conversation of needing the ball in his hands.

 

[bucketshardy]

On a different note- sure it was mentioned during the game on this thread- but obviously with the result- haven't seen much mention of it the past 10 pages...

How about the game- but more so the EFFORT- by Conway last night? from the top rope outta no where... dude came to play! Loved watching that- esp from a 5th yr kid buried on the bench most of the year.

Missed an Open Jumper in the final minute... but other than that- loved everything he brought last night. Hope he sees more court-time.

 

[carmineabbatiello]

I want to live or die with Dingle and Alleyne.

Naturally you want to live and die with the guys that shot 27% and 0% rather than the guy that's far and away the teams best shooter and scorer. That's because you're like the Mitchum character in Cape fear. You perceive someone has done you wrong and you're blinded by rage. Defense - Jenkins is not tasked with guarding Odoro. All PC guards he held in check including the player of the year candidate that scored 31 round 1 to 14 points.

 

[SJU61982]

That's right, but I also think those guys are good players in their own right. Spencer was awesome at Rutgers last year. They made the NIT, but he still shot 40+ from 3pt. He was the least of their problems last year.

If we had 6 guys who were as good as Spencer/Schierman, we would be a top 25 team.

Didn't remember that Spencer was from Rutgers. That makes him a lateral transfer, so he doesn't apply to what I was talking about about.

The only lateral transfers we have are Allyne (who was doing OK until he hurt his ankle) and Zuby (raw, but talented).

I'm talking about guys who come from much lower conferences. You can't build your whole team around guys like that.

 

[dk423]

Didn't remember that Spencer was from Rutgers. That makes him a lateral transfer, so he doesn't apply to what I was talking about about.

The only lateral transfers we have are Allyne (who was doing OK until he hurt his ankle) and Zuby (raw, but talented).

I'm talking about guys who come from much lower conferences. You can't build your whole team around guys like that.

Spencer came from Loyola-Maryland initially, who play in the Patriot League. He averaged 19 ppg on a 14-18 team. Then he went to Rutgers. Was he a bad recruit for Rutgers at the time then?

No one is trying to build an entire team based on guys from the Ivy, Summit or Patriot leagues. But the point is that you can find some gems from any conference in the country.

 

[Jack Williams]

Since the turn of the new year. Dingle is averaging 9 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.8 assists with 1.5 turnovers. 37% FG on 9 attempts, 24% 3pt on 4.5 attempts.

Not sure how we're back to the conversation of needing the ball in his hands.

it is absolutely nonsensical and an insult to everyone who has sat through all these games

 

[paultzman]

So in the light of a new day:

1. There is such a thing as "overcoaching' and IMHO that is what Pitino did with some of his "strategic" decisions at the beginning of the game.

2. It was encouraging to see the team come back from the deficit by combination of better coaching decisions, some heart and toughness, and water finding its level WRT Providence shooting.

3. I disagree with most posters about the game Luis played. I thought that he took away almost as much as he contributed with this game's batch of bonehead plays. A bit more on this in #5.

4. I disagree with most posters about Soriano, generally. I do not completely absolve Joel of responsibility but from a practical standpoint nobody other than Dunlap and sometimes Ledlum seems interested or capable of actually getting him the ball in the post. Nor is there anything designed for that - again a bit more on this in #5.

5. It is clear what Pitino wants - a team that presses, gets turnovers, has a rim-protecting center, plays tough man-to-man or help defense, and shoots a ton of 3s. In his effort to play the game he wants to play with the team he actually has, he has hitched his wagon to Jenkins and Luis who he views as athletic creators. This also probably accounts for the lack of consistency in playing time and rotation as he keeps reshuffling the cards he has to find a hand he likes.

IMHO the insistence on trying to play the hand you want instead of the hand you have has (like RJ Luis) hurt more than it has helped. You have a team with a top-3 center in the league, but you dont' play through him and make little effort to get the ball into the post. The 3 point shooters you have are not athletic, so you don't play them or dont' run anything to create open looks for spot-up 3s. You overutilize a PG who is disinclined to pass, exacerbating the problem of your non-athletic shooters. You rely on Luis who has undeniable ability but makes unwatchable mistakes. You can't stop anyone on the dribble, but keep pressing anyway. I could go on, but the point is that the coach is trying to play a game that his current roster does not match. It works well enough to be consistently competitive, but not well enough to consistently win.

6. I remain of the opinion that the team has been about what I expected. The at Providence and at Butler games were the only remaining margin for error, and now it is only the at-Butler game. They have to beat Seton Hall and Creighton at home, win the other DePaul game and the 2 Georgetown games, and they will remain a bubble team, which is what they were always going to be. But clearly I was never as high on the Pitino Factor as most, so that probably accounts for my lack of surprise at how the season has played out.

But would you say they have not improved an iota? I shared your schedule prediction, but am really taken aback by their lack of improvement under Pitino.

 

[Rocket]

I want to live or die with Dingle and Alleyne. I can accept losing like that. I cannot accept an A-10 combo guard that can’t defend his position dictating how our season ends.

This feels like Hardy’s junior year with Norm to be. Put the goddamn ball in Dingle’s hands and let it move. Why doesn’t Soriano screen for him? Change that immediately.

No you can't accept that nightmarish Dingle and Alleyne death wish!
That A-10 combo guard is the most consistent player on this team by a mile and you hate being proven wrong.
At 6'4 Daniss is an adequate defender. He did his job last night against Carter.

As for the Soriano fans, he has shown that he is not a leader as the captain. He sulks and continually lumbers up and down the court. He simply doesn't have the motor to compete against more agile big men. Even when he demands the ball in the post his poor hands and lack of spin moves don't pose the same threat as an Oduro whom he couldn't defend. Is there a big man in the league who has allowed his game to go south as much as him?

I have had an issue with Taylor most of the season. Whether by design or by accident, this kid never puts himself into an attack mode. For a player with good shooting form, he is a wasted talent on Pitino's team.

Pitino has been erratic with his utilization of his freshmen to say the least. He has used them in guest appearances only. Hopefully there is some learning and development taking place in practices.

Sadly, this team is only a couple of bad losses away from being nationally respected and as anyone who witnessed the Michigan and Boston College fiascos, the lack of attention to defense against specific players has been a problem. Last night it was Oduro. In other losses, it was the failure to stop players like Kolek, Dug McDaniel of Michigan, etc.
Which leads me back to Marillac2 living or dieing with Alleyne and Dingle.
Neither one are defenders we anticipated. As for Dingle, his offense has been sporadic ar best.
This stuff happens when a team is put together on the fly.

 

[SJU61982]

Spencer came from Loyola-Maryland initially, who play in the Patriot League. He averaged 19 ppg on a 14-18 team. Then he went to Rutgers. Was he a bad recruit for Rutgers at the time then?

But, Rutgers was a pretty good team last year. Many people thought they should have been in the NCAA Tournament.

They built the team around the center. If Spencer became their best player, it was because the center (I'm not going to try to spell his name), was a talent who could make him better. That's the kind of player we're missing.

 

[dk423]

Maybe an exception to the rule then, a la Clayton.
Most guys are at that level for a reason, though.

We literally just had a list of 10+ guys who are impact players in the Big East who came from non-major programs.

Hell, looking at the national landscape on a very very quick search:
Mark Sears -- averaging 20ppg at Alabama. Transfer from Ohio
Dalton Knecht -- averaging 20ppg at Tennessee. Transfer from North Colorado
Tyson Walker -- averaging 19ppg at Michigan State. Transfer from Northeastern

The issue is that we simply chose wrong in the portal. It's not where they came from, it's about the players specifically.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Speaking of Dingle and Jenkins as so many have, neither has quick lateral movement and both very susceptible to blow-bys.

Defensive liabilities on a team with many defensive liabilities.

 

[MadisonMike]

I'm done with Dingle. Not sure how anyone can't be at this point.

We can enjoy conjecturing on why he's been so bad, but he just is and it's not going to get better.

Still have no idea how he averaged so many points per game last year! I don't think he's made two shots in a row all year.

 

[monte]

Soriano is not a top 3 center in the Big East.

Look, he's not playing like one right now, but let's not rewrite history to try and make a point. The kid was an all Big East level player last season, projected to be a 1st team all big east player this season, and played like one for the early part of the season. Something physical, mental or both is going on right now that's preventing him from playing up to his ability. No one is happy with how he's performing, but I for one am not going to discount how he's performed in the past, and give up on him performing that way again before the season is
over.

Marquette’s Tyler Kolek Voted BIG EAST Preseason Player of the Year

Marquette guard Tyler Kolek has been named 2023-24 BIG EAST Preseason Player of the Year by a vote of the league’s head coaches. Connecticut guard Stephon Castle has been chosen BIG EAST Preseason Freshman of the Year. The coaches, who were not permitted to select their own players, also chose...

www.bigeast.com

 

[SJU61982]

We literally just had a list of 10+ guys who are impact players in the Big East who came from non-major programs.

Hell, looking at the national landscape on a very very quick search:
Mark Sears -- averaging 20ppg at Alabama. Transfer from Ohio
Dalton Knecht -- averaging 20ppg at Tennessee. Transfer from North Colorado
Tyson Walker -- averaging 19ppg at Michigan State. Transfer from Northeastern

The issue is that we simply chose wrong in the portal. It's not where they came from, it's about the players specifically.

All going into good teams though, with high major talents around them Maybe if players like Dingle went there, they would have similar numbers, and if those players joined our team, their numbers would fall off, being surrounded only by similar talents, against a better level of competition. No one to make them better.

 

[MadisonMike]

yea this has been the shocker for me this year. Idk what exactly I expected when getting Pitino, but I figured he would be a coach who could identify what his team does well, and focus on the team playing to their strengths.

Instead we have gotten hardheaded Rick, who continues to try to stuff a square peg into a round hole with this roster. It is so strange to me. And has been the biggest letdown of this season, outside of maybe the disappearance of Jordan Dingle

Got to agree with the Pitino assessment. I'd like to see at this stage of the season a slight change in our offensive approach instead of running the weave with Soriano at the high post holding the ball and not knowing what to do with it. Maybe we should be trying a different offensive scheme? Or get him to take 10 jump shots from the foul line because they are there every time. But he's a Hall of Fame coach and I'm working from home in my basement so I guess In Rick We Trust.