(POST-GAME) @Providence, Wed. Feb.20, 8:30p, FS-1 / Sirius XM 971
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
RyGuyRedStorm
Active member
Tournament definitely not a lock now. Team plays like they did tonight and they could go 0-4 the rest of the way.
Class of 72
Active member
We are 19-8. Seems decent until you look at the opponents we beat in the OOC where we struggled to put teams away so often that the freshmen never got game experience. We are barely a .500 team in games that matter.
Beating Marquette twice and Villanova once doesn't make the shit show orchestrated by this staff smell any better. It appears they have little control over these players and the body language of Ponds and Clark tonight was very disturbing.
Most disturbing of those two is the rapid regression of Shamorie Ponds. Clark has been a one trick pony his entire career at St. John's. When he can't hit the 3 Mullin may as well play Earlington. Keita has been a complete bust. The kid has no hands and no offensive game.
A season that started with the best starting five in Mullin's tenure is unraveling before our very eyes because of the pitiful effort by the entire staff in assembling a competent bench. Mullin may be safe for next season because he is Mullin but Cragg, most fans and the league office located in NYC can't be happy with this wildly inconsistent program. Short of cleaning house and starting over I'm not sure anyone has an answer anymore. Sadly we need to see what players are signed, leave and return to even get a handle on if we are headed in the right direction after a debacle like tonight.
In this competitive league consistency is the lifeblood of success. We have the most inconsistent program in the past 4 years. Jarvis got fired mid year for less and Lavin was fired for going to 4 post season tournaments. I'm not sure what to expect anymore from the program.
As for the game tonight there is not one single good thing I can say except that Mullin knew to throw in the towel and play his freshmen the most he has all year. He wisely ordered Clark to get the fuck off the bench and into the lockerroon before the official did after a St. John's record 6th foul by the crappiest defender in St. John's history. He couldn't hold Mel Davis' jock strap and except for his elusive 3 point shot he won't be missed. Shamorie Ponds will not get drafted which was his goal upon returning and he will not return which is unfortunate for him because if ever there was a 4 year player it is Shamorie but he appears to be checking out early in more ways than one and that makes me sad for him.
Finally, let's stop with the "bad matchup" excuses. When 3 of your starters have brain farts for 40 minutes, if you held a match close to their ears their heads would explode and the concept of team would implode.
I envy the optimists here that were saying "let's enjoy this wonderful and successful season" because games like tonight show that things have not and are not that wonderful.
The recruiting malpractice was committed last Spring and the coaching malpractice was retaining Mitch Richmond and to a lesser extent Greg St. Jean. We need to see Chris Mullin surrounded by a talented staff if anyone here wants our basketball legend not to leave under embarrassing circumstances. That is what those of us that love Chris Mullin, the player, were fearing from the first day of his hire.
Beating Marquette twice and Villanova once doesn't make the shit show orchestrated by this staff smell any better. It appears they have little control over these players and the body language of Ponds and Clark tonight was very disturbing.
Most disturbing of those two is the rapid regression of Shamorie Ponds. Clark has been a one trick pony his entire career at St. John's. When he can't hit the 3 Mullin may as well play Earlington. Keita has been a complete bust. The kid has no hands and no offensive game.
A season that started with the best starting five in Mullin's tenure is unraveling before our very eyes because of the pitiful effort by the entire staff in assembling a competent bench. Mullin may be safe for next season because he is Mullin but Cragg, most fans and the league office located in NYC can't be happy with this wildly inconsistent program. Short of cleaning house and starting over I'm not sure anyone has an answer anymore. Sadly we need to see what players are signed, leave and return to even get a handle on if we are headed in the right direction after a debacle like tonight.
In this competitive league consistency is the lifeblood of success. We have the most inconsistent program in the past 4 years. Jarvis got fired mid year for less and Lavin was fired for going to 4 post season tournaments. I'm not sure what to expect anymore from the program.
As for the game tonight there is not one single good thing I can say except that Mullin knew to throw in the towel and play his freshmen the most he has all year. He wisely ordered Clark to get the fuck off the bench and into the lockerroon before the official did after a St. John's record 6th foul by the crappiest defender in St. John's history. He couldn't hold Mel Davis' jock strap and except for his elusive 3 point shot he won't be missed. Shamorie Ponds will not get drafted which was his goal upon returning and he will not return which is unfortunate for him because if ever there was a 4 year player it is Shamorie but he appears to be checking out early in more ways than one and that makes me sad for him.
Finally, let's stop with the "bad matchup" excuses. When 3 of your starters have brain farts for 40 minutes, if you held a match close to their ears their heads would explode and the concept of team would implode.
I envy the optimists here that were saying "let's enjoy this wonderful and successful season" because games like tonight show that things have not and are not that wonderful.
The recruiting malpractice was committed last Spring and the coaching malpractice was retaining Mitch Richmond and to a lesser extent Greg St. Jean. We need to see Chris Mullin surrounded by a talented staff if anyone here wants our basketball legend not to leave under embarrassing circumstances. That is what those of us that love Chris Mullin, the player, were fearing from the first day of his hire.
[quote="Class of 72" post=324557]We are 19-8. Seems decent until you look at the opponents we beat in the OOC where we struggled to put teams away so often that the freshmen never got game experience. We are barely a .500 team in games that matter.
Beating Marquette twice and Villanova once doesn't make the shit show orchestrated by this staff smell any better. It appears they have little control over these players and the body language of Ponds and Clark tonight was very disturbing.
Most disturbing of those two is the rapid regression of Shamorie Ponds. Clark has been a one trick pony his entire career at St. John's. When he can't hit the 3 Mullin may as well play Earlington. Keita has been a complete bust. The kid has no hands and no offensive game.
A season that started with the best starting five in Mullin's tenure is unraveling before our very eyes because of the pitiful effort by the entire staff in assembling a competent bench. Mullin may be safe for next season because he is Mullin but Cragg, most fans and the league office located in NYC can't be happy with this wildly inconsistent program. Short of cleaning house and starting over I'm not sure anyone has an answer anymore. Sadly we need to see what players are signed, leave and return to even get a handle on if we are headed in the right direction after a debacle like tonight.
In this competitive league consistency is the lifeblood of success. We have the most inconsistent program in the past 4 years. Jarvis got fired mid year for less and Lavin was fired for going to 4 post season tournaments. I'm not sure what to expect anymore from the program.
As for the game tonight there is not one single good thing I can say except that Mullin knew to throw in the towel and play his freshmen the most he has all year. He wisely ordered Clark to get the fuck off the bench and into the lockerroon before the official did after a St. John's record 6th foul by the crappiest defender in St. John's history. He couldn't hold Mel Davis' jock strap and except for his elusive 3 point shot he won't be missed. Shamorie Ponds will not get drafted which was his goal upon returning and he will not return which is unfortunate for him because if ever there was a 4 year player it is Shamorie but he appears to be checking out early in more ways than one and that makes me sad for him.
Finally, let's stop with the "bad matchup" excuses. When 3 of your starters have brain farts for 40 minutes, if you held a match close to their ears their heads would explode and the concept of team would implode.
I envy the optimists here that were saying "let's enjoy this wonderful and successful season" because games like tonight show that things have not and are not that wonderful.
The recruiting malpractice was committed last Spring and the coaching malpractice was retaining Mitch Richmond and to a lesser extent Greg St. Jean. We need to see Chris Mullin surrounded by a talented staff if anyone here wants our basketball legend not to leave under embarrassing circumstances. That is what those of us that love Chris Mullin, the player, were fearing from the first day of his hire.[/quote]
Beating Marquette twice and Villanova once doesn't make the shit show orchestrated by this staff smell any better. It appears they have little control over these players and the body language of Ponds and Clark tonight was very disturbing.
Most disturbing of those two is the rapid regression of Shamorie Ponds. Clark has been a one trick pony his entire career at St. John's. When he can't hit the 3 Mullin may as well play Earlington. Keita has been a complete bust. The kid has no hands and no offensive game.
A season that started with the best starting five in Mullin's tenure is unraveling before our very eyes because of the pitiful effort by the entire staff in assembling a competent bench. Mullin may be safe for next season because he is Mullin but Cragg, most fans and the league office located in NYC can't be happy with this wildly inconsistent program. Short of cleaning house and starting over I'm not sure anyone has an answer anymore. Sadly we need to see what players are signed, leave and return to even get a handle on if we are headed in the right direction after a debacle like tonight.
In this competitive league consistency is the lifeblood of success. We have the most inconsistent program in the past 4 years. Jarvis got fired mid year for less and Lavin was fired for going to 4 post season tournaments. I'm not sure what to expect anymore from the program.
As for the game tonight there is not one single good thing I can say except that Mullin knew to throw in the towel and play his freshmen the most he has all year. He wisely ordered Clark to get the fuck off the bench and into the lockerroon before the official did after a St. John's record 6th foul by the crappiest defender in St. John's history. He couldn't hold Mel Davis' jock strap and except for his elusive 3 point shot he won't be missed. Shamorie Ponds will not get drafted which was his goal upon returning and he will not return which is unfortunate for him because if ever there was a 4 year player it is Shamorie but he appears to be checking out early in more ways than one and that makes me sad for him.
Finally, let's stop with the "bad matchup" excuses. When 3 of your starters have brain farts for 40 minutes, if you held a match close to their ears their heads would explode and the concept of team would implode.
I envy the optimists here that were saying "let's enjoy this wonderful and successful season" because games like tonight show that things have not and are not that wonderful.
The recruiting malpractice was committed last Spring and the coaching malpractice was retaining Mitch Richmond and to a lesser extent Greg St. Jean. We need to see Chris Mullin surrounded by a talented staff if anyone here wants our basketball legend not to leave under embarrassing circumstances. That is what those of us that love Chris Mullin, the player, were fearing from the first day of his hire.[/quote]
Postgame Quotes
St. John’s Head Coach Chris Mullin and Mustapha Heron spoke to the media after Wednesday’s loss at Providence, 78-59
St. John’s Head Coach Chris Mullin:
On understanding today’s performance after Sunday’s win…
“It’s hard to understand. It’s hard to figure out. We just have to put it behind us. We have four games left. We need to regroup and play a good game on Saturday. That’s the most important thing.”
On if he will watch this game film…
“Actually we already have this on film from the last time we played Providence. So it’s the same game, part two. We made the same amount of field goals. I just thought that we were really lethargic. We had times where we had closeouts to drive and we didn’t. That’s our advantage. [Providence’s advantage] is to post up. They took advantage of it and we didn’t. Spacing and driving is just as dangerous as posting up.”
On if the slow start indicated it could be a long night…
“The guys we play, we could get back in the game. … We came out in the second half passive and unaggressive. … We didn't put an imprint on the game and they dominated us physically start to finish.”
Junior guard Mustapha Heron:
On tonight’s performance…
“They played harder than us. It was similar to the first game and it was the same result.”
On trying to find consistency…
“We talk about it every day. We talk about showing up every day with consistent effort and try to play hard. Today we didn’t have that and we have to focus on tomorrow.”
On trying to bounce back from an 0-8 start shooting from the field…
“We have high-level players. When things aren’t going well, everybody is going to try to do something to make it better. We just have to look at where we made our first mistakes.”
https://redstormsports.com/sports/2019/2/20/postgame-quotes.aspx
St. John’s Head Coach Chris Mullin and Mustapha Heron spoke to the media after Wednesday’s loss at Providence, 78-59
St. John’s Head Coach Chris Mullin:
On understanding today’s performance after Sunday’s win…
“It’s hard to understand. It’s hard to figure out. We just have to put it behind us. We have four games left. We need to regroup and play a good game on Saturday. That’s the most important thing.”
On if he will watch this game film…
“Actually we already have this on film from the last time we played Providence. So it’s the same game, part two. We made the same amount of field goals. I just thought that we were really lethargic. We had times where we had closeouts to drive and we didn’t. That’s our advantage. [Providence’s advantage] is to post up. They took advantage of it and we didn’t. Spacing and driving is just as dangerous as posting up.”
On if the slow start indicated it could be a long night…
“The guys we play, we could get back in the game. … We came out in the second half passive and unaggressive. … We didn't put an imprint on the game and they dominated us physically start to finish.”
Junior guard Mustapha Heron:
On tonight’s performance…
“They played harder than us. It was similar to the first game and it was the same result.”
On trying to find consistency…
“We talk about it every day. We talk about showing up every day with consistent effort and try to play hard. Today we didn’t have that and we have to focus on tomorrow.”
On trying to bounce back from an 0-8 start shooting from the field…
“We have high-level players. When things aren’t going well, everybody is going to try to do something to make it better. We just have to look at where we made our first mistakes.”
https://redstormsports.com/sports/2019/2/20/postgame-quotes.aspx
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JohnnyFever
Active member
Turned the game off with about 8 minutes left in the 1st half since it was blatantly obvious we were no-showing again and it was the exact same game as last time vs. PC. Missed about 30 layups and Ponds just has not been himself. There's clearly something wrong. He looks like a shell of himself and it's really sad because first he got eaten alive by Duke and now he can't even dominate mediocre at best teams. PC is not a very good team...no way around it. We seem to be the only ones who have trouble with them. I oddly expected this type of game because we are actually easy to predict. We get a big win and we come out and no-show. This team just has an inability to go on any kind of run. Can beat any team any day but not twice in a row let alone more.
Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=324569]Turned the game off with about 8 minutes left in the 1st half since it was blatantly obvious we were no-showing again and it was the exact same game as last time vs. PC. Missed about 30 layups and Ponds just has not been himself. There's clearly something wrong. He looks like a shell of himself and it's really sad because first he got eaten alive by Duke and now he can't even dominate mediocre at best teams. PC is not a very good team...no way around it. We seem to be the only ones who have trouble with them. I oddly expected this type of game because we are actually easy to predict. We get a big win and we come out and no-show. This team just has an inability to go on any kind of run. Can beat any team any day but not twice in a row let alone more.[/quote]
Diallo, Watson, Reeves and Duke are freshmen and sophomores but are as good as anyone we start. They are a good team suffering through their youthful inexperience. Watson is 6'10, 240. He will dominate us inside throughout his career unless our staff can show that they can recruit and coach up a big man. I'm not convinced Steere or anyone else we may have will match up with him.
Diallo, Watson, Reeves and Duke are freshmen and sophomores but are as good as anyone we start. They are a good team suffering through their youthful inexperience. Watson is 6'10, 240. He will dominate us inside throughout his career unless our staff can show that they can recruit and coach up a big man. I'm not convinced Steere or anyone else we may have will match up with him.
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="Class of 72" post=324572][quote="Mike Zaun" post=324569]Turned the game off with about 8 minutes left in the 1st half since it was blatantly obvious we were no-showing again and it was the exact same game as last time vs. PC. Missed about 30 layups and Ponds just has not been himself. There's clearly something wrong. He looks like a shell of himself and it's really sad because first he got eaten alive by Duke and now he can't even dominate mediocre at best teams. PC is not a very good team...no way around it. We seem to be the only ones who have trouble with them. I oddly expected this type of game because we are actually easy to predict. We get a big win and we come out and no-show. This team just has an inability to go on any kind of run. Can beat any team any day but not twice in a row let alone more.[/quote]
Diallo, Watson, Reeves and Duke are freshmen and sophomores but are as good as anyone we start. They are a good team suffering through their youthful inexperience. Watson is 6'10, 240. He will dominate us inside throughout his career unless our staff can show that they can recruit and coach up a big man. I'm not convinced Steere or anyone else we may have will match up with him.[/quote]
Yet when our guys are freshmen if they suck we say we're the youngest team in America lol. We have made PC look like Duke under Mullin. Don't get it. They get handled by others, so it's not that they're good...it's that we just get owned by them for whatever reason. They're bottom of the barrel Big East this year. We will lose against Seton Hall then there will be outcries how the game after that is a must win and we will win that to get to 20 wins and need 1-2 wins in the BET to punch our ticket. It's clear this team will not be clearly in by the end of regular season the way they play up and down every other game.
Diallo, Watson, Reeves and Duke are freshmen and sophomores but are as good as anyone we start. They are a good team suffering through their youthful inexperience. Watson is 6'10, 240. He will dominate us inside throughout his career unless our staff can show that they can recruit and coach up a big man. I'm not convinced Steere or anyone else we may have will match up with him.[/quote]
Yet when our guys are freshmen if they suck we say we're the youngest team in America lol. We have made PC look like Duke under Mullin. Don't get it. They get handled by others, so it's not that they're good...it's that we just get owned by them for whatever reason. They're bottom of the barrel Big East this year. We will lose against Seton Hall then there will be outcries how the game after that is a must win and we will win that to get to 20 wins and need 1-2 wins in the BET to punch our ticket. It's clear this team will not be clearly in by the end of regular season the way they play up and down every other game.
Jarvis’ team did its best work on defense. The Red Storm opened in a straight man. They pressed full-court man. They pressed full-court zone. They pressed three-quarters court. They dropped back into a zone.
https://nypost.com/1999/01/21/jarvis-plays-big-from-bench-coachs-game-plan-frazzles-friars/
A quote from our January 1999 win at Providence during the 1998-1999 season. You find other ways to defeat your opponent. Instead, we played the same game that got our ass beat a week and a half ago. The "poor matchup" versus Providence is bulllshit.
If this staff can't adjust, then they won't have any long-term success. I'm not sold on this staff, and games like tonight just reaffirms my feelings.
https://nypost.com/1999/01/21/jarvis-plays-big-from-bench-coachs-game-plan-frazzles-friars/
A quote from our January 1999 win at Providence during the 1998-1999 season. You find other ways to defeat your opponent. Instead, we played the same game that got our ass beat a week and a half ago. The "poor matchup" versus Providence is bulllshit.
If this staff can't adjust, then they won't have any long-term success. I'm not sold on this staff, and games like tonight just reaffirms my feelings.
MarkRedman
Well-known member
Stopped watching in the second half to see Duke-UNC
Can't remember the last time I stopped watching a St John's game
I did it for medicinal reasons - I was getting sick to my stomach
Sometimes we're Jekyll, last night we were Hyde
I have a feeling that Jekyll will show up on Saturday night!!
Can't remember the last time I stopped watching a St John's game
I did it for medicinal reasons - I was getting sick to my stomach
Sometimes we're Jekyll, last night we were Hyde
I have a feeling that Jekyll will show up on Saturday night!!
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Sad to say the team is too deeply flawed to be consistent. They don't shoot well enough or consistently well enough to be predictably good. They don't have the bulk down low to compete on the block or rebound. The don't have the depth to survive foul trouble or injury. Worst of all, and this has been true all year, they rarely show any sense of urgency and seem to habitually take other teams for granted.
The end result is that they can beat most teams only when they are "on" and hitting shots and use their athleticism to quicken games.
It all comes down to recruiting (and coaching). The deficiencies can't be hidden or supplanted when necessary. Matt (and Chris) have done a good job upgrading the talent from when they started, but the inexplicable failure to recruit at least one legitimate big man in 3 years has been decisive. So too the failure to recruit serviceable subs (other than Trimble). Maybe Roberts and Williams will develop but sadly, unlike freshman on other teams, either they have not had the chance to gain confidence and grow their role this year, or are not as talented or "game ready" as freshman on a lot of other teams. I have come to the realization (more slowly than others) that Keita is not the answer and I guess that it was not that hard to look good in practice last year as the only semi-big man with no real competiton.
So, let's hope that even with the expected continued inconsistency, we can win at least 2 of the last 4 games and win a game or 2 in the BET and get that bid.
Then hopefully, we have some reinforcements coming that will help us continue our painfully (too) slow year over year improvement.
The end result is that they can beat most teams only when they are "on" and hitting shots and use their athleticism to quicken games.
It all comes down to recruiting (and coaching). The deficiencies can't be hidden or supplanted when necessary. Matt (and Chris) have done a good job upgrading the talent from when they started, but the inexplicable failure to recruit at least one legitimate big man in 3 years has been decisive. So too the failure to recruit serviceable subs (other than Trimble). Maybe Roberts and Williams will develop but sadly, unlike freshman on other teams, either they have not had the chance to gain confidence and grow their role this year, or are not as talented or "game ready" as freshman on a lot of other teams. I have come to the realization (more slowly than others) that Keita is not the answer and I guess that it was not that hard to look good in practice last year as the only semi-big man with no real competiton.
So, let's hope that even with the expected continued inconsistency, we can win at least 2 of the last 4 games and win a game or 2 in the BET and get that bid.
Then hopefully, we have some reinforcements coming that will help us continue our painfully (too) slow year over year improvement.
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WillyDilly
Member
[quote="MJDinkins" post=324575]Jarvis’ team did its best work on defense. The Red Storm opened in a straight man. They pressed full-court man. They pressed full-court zone. They pressed three-quarters court. They dropped back into a zone.
https://nypost.com/1999/01/21/jarvis-plays-big-from-bench-coachs-game-plan-frazzles-friars/
A quote from our January 1999 win at Providence during the 1998-1999 season. You find other ways to defeat your opponent. Instead, we played the same game that got our ass beat a week and a half ago. The "poor matchup" versus Providence is bulllshit.
If this staff can't adjust, then they won't have any long-term success. I'm not sold on this staff, and games like tonight just reaffirms my feelings.[/quote]
Last night's game had nothing to do with making changes or adjustments. Our players simply just did not bring the energy or will to play, and no amount of coaching strategy was going to change that.
https://nypost.com/1999/01/21/jarvis-plays-big-from-bench-coachs-game-plan-frazzles-friars/
A quote from our January 1999 win at Providence during the 1998-1999 season. You find other ways to defeat your opponent. Instead, we played the same game that got our ass beat a week and a half ago. The "poor matchup" versus Providence is bulllshit.
If this staff can't adjust, then they won't have any long-term success. I'm not sold on this staff, and games like tonight just reaffirms my feelings.[/quote]
Last night's game had nothing to do with making changes or adjustments. Our players simply just did not bring the energy or will to play, and no amount of coaching strategy was going to change that.
[/quote][quote="Eric Williamson" post=324598][quote="MJDinkins" post=324575]Jarvis’ team did its best work on defense. The Red Storm opened in a straight man. They pressed full-court man. They pressed full-court zone. They pressed three-quarters court. They dropped back into a zone.
https://nypost.com/1999/01/21/jarvis-plays-big-from-bench-coachs-game-plan-frazzles-friars/
A quote from our January 1999 win at Providence during the 1998-1999 season. You find other ways to defeat your opponent. Instead, we played the same game that got our ass beat a week and a half ago. The "poor matchup" versus Providence is bulllshit.
If this staff can't adjust, then they won't have any long-term success. I'm not sold on this staff, and games like tonight just reaffirms my feelings.[/quote]
Last night's game had nothing to do with making changes or adjustments. Our players simply just did not bring the energy or will to play, and no amount of coaching strategy was going to change that.[/quote]
How do you know when none was ever made? Did you notice anything different from the ass beating we took from Providence about twelve days ago? Neither did I. Keep thinking adjustments may have not made a difference.
Lastly, if the team didn't bring any energy, which seems to happen at important times, then that can also fall on coaching when it becomes a pattern.
https://nypost.com/1999/01/21/jarvis-plays-big-from-bench-coachs-game-plan-frazzles-friars/
A quote from our January 1999 win at Providence during the 1998-1999 season. You find other ways to defeat your opponent. Instead, we played the same game that got our ass beat a week and a half ago. The "poor matchup" versus Providence is bulllshit.
If this staff can't adjust, then they won't have any long-term success. I'm not sold on this staff, and games like tonight just reaffirms my feelings.[/quote]
Last night's game had nothing to do with making changes or adjustments. Our players simply just did not bring the energy or will to play, and no amount of coaching strategy was going to change that.[/quote]
How do you know when none was ever made? Did you notice anything different from the ass beating we took from Providence about twelve days ago? Neither did I. Keep thinking adjustments may have not made a difference.
Lastly, if the team didn't bring any energy, which seems to happen at important times, then that can also fall on coaching when it becomes a pattern.
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