(POST GAME) Fordham, Sun., Dec. 5, 7p, FS-1

[beast of the east]

I think one of the posters here who follows Rutgers said that Mathis was averaging 14 ppg before he went to the bench. If we can start to get close to that vs. weaker competition, it'll go a long way toward ensuring that we finish the OOC schedule the way many were projecting us to, and not be too stressed doing it.

Would expect him to drop back down to who he really is by BE play, but would be nice to see something from him until then.

I mean this complimentary because he’s been really good and exceeded my expectations but I don’t think we could expect anything more from him. What we have seen is the best we could ask for IMO. His effective FG % is 60% right now. His previous best for a season was 43%. Hope he proves me wrong.

He has been the beneficiary of a lot of transition easy baskets and nice looks.   I think most players in top conferences have two sets of stats - the lower OOC games, and how they perform vs. top competition, which is reasonable.   It looks pretty certain that if he stays healthy and his minutes stay high, he will be one of our top 3 scorers.   

I think id take that bet. Like you pointed out, don’t see his transition baskets and easy looks to be as plentiful once the competition gears up. Smith shooting terribly from deep gives me hope he can make up for the inevitable dip from Mathis. I say inevitable because it’s 60%!

It's really possible though that if Mathis stays within himself, and adapts well to Anderson's pressure defense, run at every opportunity offense, that his shooting percentage can stay high if he is selective in the half court offense.  I'm okay if he is at 45% in conference (not overall), 50% would be great.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I think one of the posters here who follows Rutgers said that Mathis was averaging 14 ppg before he went to the bench. If we can start to get close to that vs. weaker competition, it'll go a long way toward ensuring that we finish the OOC schedule the way many were projecting us to, and not be too stressed doing it.

Would expect him to drop back down to who he really is by BE play, but would be nice to see something from him until then.

I mean this complimentary because he’s been really good and exceeded my expectations but I don’t think we could expect anything more from him. What we have seen is the best we could ask for IMO. His effective FG % is 60% right now. His previous best for a season was 43%. Hope he proves me wrong.

He has been the beneficiary of a lot of transition easy baskets and nice looks.   I think most players in top conferences have two sets of stats - the lower OOC games, and how they perform vs. top competition, which is reasonable.   It looks pretty certain that if he stays healthy and his minutes stay high, he will be one of our top 3 scorers.   

I think id take that bet. Like you pointed out, don’t see his transition baskets and easy looks to be as plentiful once the competition gears up. Smith shooting terribly from deep gives me hope he can make up for the inevitable dip from Mathis. I say inevitable because it’s 60%!

It's really possible though that if Mathis stays within himself, and adapts well to Anderson's pressure defense, run at every opportunity offense, that his shooting percentage can stay high if he is selective in the half court offense.  I'm okay if he is at 45% in conference (not overall), 50% would be great.

What you described in my opinion is best case scenario and I hope that’s exactly how it plays out.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

This might not be a popular opinion, but I still have hope that Coburn will turn things around — and hope that he has a real opportunity to do so.  I know all of the arguments, e.g., SJU is a big step-up from Hofstra. Still, Champs has noted that he’s the best shooter on the team. He has size.  And, he was the best player on the court for large parts of the game against St. Francis. The problem is that a key component of a shooter’s game is confidence, including confidence to continue shooting when the first few shots don’t go down — that you won’t be yanked for taking those shots.  I really think he could be the scorer and leader that the bench needs.  

I think Coburn's main issue is his ball handling.  I dare say it's almost as bad as Vince Cole.  At the high major level if you're ball handling is bad at the guard position it's really hard to create a shot for yourself and scouting report is out on him that he's a shooter, so teams are covering him well and he doesn't have the ability to create space for himself like Champ does when he's covered on the 3 point line.

Hopefully he can figure it out, team really needs his shooting right now.

Yea he is very sloppy with the ball. On defense if you watch him enough he always has his hands down. He’s a big athletic kid, still think he can be an asset.

 

[MakingPlays]

Not for nothing but in terms of Facts mathis played on one NCAA tourney team. And the one he was on moved him to the bench halfway through the season. Those are facts. 

1.  Tournament Team one (Started 31 out of 31 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2020[/URL]

Tournament was cancelled, doesn't change the fact the team was a lock to make the tournament regardless of their performance in the Big 10 tournament.  This was a GOOD Big 10 team, several top 25 wins, finished 11-9 in conference.

2. Tournament Team two (Started 13 of 28 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2021[/URL]

So he started 41 games on 2 different tournament level teams in the Big 10. I'm not saying he played on two different programs, he played both years on Rutgers, but each year is it's own team.

I'm confused on how you guys are still struggling to comprehend that.  This stuff is easy to google, takes 10 seconds.  I didn't say he was a world beater, just posted how many times he's started on a good teams in a good league.
 

 

[IDRAFT]

On Mathis I look at him, as a case where two things could possibly be true. One of them already is true.

 - The first that his role with Rutgers diminished over time. Mathis didn't discuss his move with me but it's fairly logical that is the reason he transferred.

- The second is that his skills might fit better under Anderson. Pikeil is the anti-Anderson, his teams are built on playing very slow with tough stop your man defense. Open court offense is less likely at Rutgers and Mathis is not a shooter he is a finisher. Defensively he did well there and continues to do well at SJU. In his case the ability to do better at SJU seems possible to me and I think he is an example of an excellent transfer in.

Overall, the first of the two is established, the second, we will know by mid-March. Same as all the guys, yes, but I have more faith in Mathis, who had some actual success in his career in the B10 then Wheeler, who did not. For example. I think it could also be true that a guy like Mathis could be the exact same guy, and the third best guy on this team and that this SJU team could be better than those Rutgers teams. Or of course not. Teams have different compositions, if Posh and Champ both played at an All BE level (I'm saying IF) the team could be better with Mathis as the number three guy. If neither play at that level I think it's fair to surmise this team would be worse.





 

 

[IDRAFT]

One last word on Mathis. If SJU had two more of the transfers (any two) playing at his level the team would be cooking right now. Maybe some other guys will step it up but he is not the guy I am worried about. Yes, his production has been against (fill in the cupcake.) So has all the other guys non-production.

 

[IDRAFT]

I have to be living in a bizzaro world reading some of the comments in here tonight. You guys are unreal. After the Kansas game it was all doom and gloom, people calling for Mike Anderson's job like morons. 

Sunday you get the best 40 minutes from the team so far, career high performance from Posh, Wusu double double, Niywe shines, Julian's "bad" game is 16 and 8, and you win by a comfortable double digits and it's still bitching and moaning. They did their job and then some tonight. They improved on the defense, played with fire right out of the gate and never let the game get in jeopardy...that's what you're supposed to do vs Fordham. 

Montez Mathis has been by far the best transfer, fits into this system perfectly and has been a super add. This guy does everything you could possibly want....what in the world are some of you expecting? He's averaging 11 pts and 4 rebs per game almost 2 assts, 1.5 steals per game, he's the second best defender on the team, has size, an endless motor, is the perfect compliment to Posh, has scored in double figures in 4 of the last 5 games with a 20 pt performance in there...he's great. Get a grip.

It’s Tuesday morning and you think the game was tonight. Bizzaro world is right

Mathis has been great. Has anyone said he’s played bad?

I said I felt Mathis should be coming off the bench on a very good Big East team, just like he was relegated too on Rutgers. I never said he sucked, I never said he hasn't played well(mostly against cupcakes), I never said he hasn't played hard. And a few of the jerk offs on the  board (that's not a personal attack, that's general one) took exception to that, citing their usual selective stats in a weak attempt to bolster their arguments. 

I stated a fact, which is he started on 2 tournament Big 10 teams, that's literally all I said.  And as usual, if someone points out facts that goes against what you believe, you go fully grumpy old man at Thanksgiving when the food isn't served on time and start name calling and rambling.  It's a freakin discussion board, you discuss and debate,  that's the whole point of a discussion board. If you want to just post something and everyone agrees with you go on Facebook make a post and disable comments. And also you're welcome to utilize the ignore feature on here, I promise I won't miss your "insightful" commentary on here./media/kunena/emoticons/tongue.png

Wait, there's an ignore feature? Where is that, I'm serious. And I'm quoting this post MP but my comment is not directed at you or your posts.

 

[MakingPlays]

I have to be living in a bizzaro world reading some of the comments in here tonight. You guys are unreal. After the Kansas game it was all doom and gloom, people calling for Mike Anderson's job like morons. 

Sunday you get the best 40 minutes from the team so far, career high performance from Posh, Wusu double double, Niywe shines, Julian's "bad" game is 16 and 8, and you win by a comfortable double digits and it's still bitching and moaning. They did their job and then some tonight. They improved on the defense, played with fire right out of the gate and never let the game get in jeopardy...that's what you're supposed to do vs Fordham. 

Montez Mathis has been by far the best transfer, fits into this system perfectly and has been a super add. This guy does everything you could possibly want....what in the world are some of you expecting? He's averaging 11 pts and 4 rebs per game almost 2 assts, 1.5 steals per game, he's the second best defender on the team, has size, an endless motor, is the perfect compliment to Posh, has scored in double figures in 4 of the last 5 games with a 20 pt performance in there...he's great. Get a grip.

It’s Tuesday morning and you think the game was tonight. Bizzaro world is right

Mathis has been great. Has anyone said he’s played bad?

I said I felt Mathis should be coming off the bench on a very good Big East team, just like he was relegated too on Rutgers. I never said he sucked, I never said he hasn't played well(mostly against cupcakes), I never said he hasn't played hard. And a few of the jerk offs on the  board (that's not a personal attack, that's general one) took exception to that, citing their usual selective stats in a weak attempt to bolster their arguments. 

I stated a fact, which is he started on 2 tournament Big 10 teams, that's literally all I said.  And as usual, if someone points out facts that goes against what you believe, you go fully grumpy old man at Thanksgiving when the food isn't served on time and start name calling and rambling.  It's a freakin discussion board, you discuss and debate,  that's the whole point of a discussion board. If you want to just post something and everyone agrees with you go on Facebook make a post and disable comments. And also you're welcome to utilize the ignore feature on here, I promise I won't miss your "insightful" commentary on here./media/kunena/emoticons/tongue.png

Wait, there's an ignore feature? Where is that, I'm serious. And I'm quoting this post MP but my comment is not directed at you or your posts.

LOL, no problem Draft.  All you have to do is click on their name, then click the three dots in the right hand corner, then click block user.  

Hopefully a certain cranky poster see this and decides to utilize it as well

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Not for nothing but in terms of Facts mathis played on one NCAA tourney team. And the one he was on moved him to the bench halfway through the season. Those are facts. 

1.  Tournament Team one (Started 31 out of 31 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2020[/URL]

Tournament was cancelled, doesn't change the fact the team was a lock to make the tournament regardless of their performance in the Big 10 tournament.  This was a GOOD Big 10 team, several top 25 wins, finished 11-9 in conference.

2. Tournament Team two (Started 13 of 28 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2021[/URL]

So he started 41 games on 2 different tournament level teams in the Big 10. I'm not saying he played on two different programs, he played both years on Rutgers, but each year is it's own team.

I'm confused on how you guys are still struggling to comprehend that.  This stuff is easy to google, takes 10 seconds.  I didn't say he was a world beater, just posted how many times he's started on a good teams in a good league.

 

Again not interpreting anything.

Fact - played on one NCAA tourney team.

Fact - lost his spot in the starting lineup.

Opinion- easily been one of our 5 best players so far.

Not debating if he is good enough to start for us or a good BE team. But don’t get mad at me if you point to facts that aren’t in fact facts.

Ask mark Turgeon if there was a tourney 2 years ago.

 

[P1NSTR1PEZ]

This might not be a popular opinion, but I still have hope that Coburn will turn things around — and hope that he has a real opportunity to do so.  I know all of the arguments, e.g., SJU is a big step-up from Hofstra. Still, Champs has noted that he’s the best shooter on the team. He has size.  And, he was the best player on the court for large parts of the game against St. Francis. The problem is that a key component of a shooter’s game is confidence, including confidence to continue shooting when the first few shots don’t go down — that you won’t be yanked for taking those shots.  I really think he could be the scorer and leader that the bench needs.  

Finals will be over for Coburn I believe by the end of this week. I think he has something like 5-6 weeks off after finals to dedicate to mental rest and all basketball. Perhaps we see a resurgence from him now that he doesn't have to juggle PA classes and basketball

 

[MakingPlays]

Not for nothing but in terms of Facts mathis played on one NCAA tourney team. And the one he was on moved him to the bench halfway through the season. Those are facts. 

1.  Tournament Team one (Started 31 out of 31 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2020[/URL]

Tournament was cancelled, doesn't change the fact the team was a lock to make the tournament regardless of their performance in the Big 10 tournament.  This was a GOOD Big 10 team, several top 25 wins, finished 11-9 in conference.

2. Tournament Team two (Started 13 of 28 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2021[/URL]

So he started 41 games on 2 different tournament level teams in the Big 10. I'm not saying he played on two different programs, he played both years on Rutgers, but each year is it's own team.

I'm confused on how you guys are still struggling to comprehend that.  This stuff is easy to google, takes 10 seconds.  I didn't say he was a world beater, just posted how many times he's started on a good teams in a good league.



 

Again not interpreting anything.

Fact - played on one NCAA tourney team.

Fact - lost his spot in the starting lineup.

Opinion- easily been one of our 5 best players so far.

Not debating if he is good enough to start for us or a good BE team. But don’t get mad at me if you point to facts that aren’t in fact facts.

Ask mark Turgeon if there was a tourney 2 years ago.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about 2019-2020 season.  Seems like you want it not to exist simply because the tournament was cancelled.  I watched the season and remember the good teams that year and kept up with bracketology, Rutgers was a tournament team, you can go ask any bracketologist that.

And I have no idea what Mark Turgeon has to do with the discussion of how many games Mathis started on tournament teams... but ok.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Not for nothing but in terms of Facts mathis played on one NCAA tourney team. And the one he was on moved him to the bench halfway through the season. Those are facts. 

1.  Tournament Team one (Started 31 out of 31 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2020[/URL]

Tournament was cancelled, doesn't change the fact the team was a lock to make the tournament regardless of their performance in the Big 10 tournament.  This was a GOOD Big 10 team, several top 25 wins, finished 11-9 in conference.

2. Tournament Team two (Started 13 of 28 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2021[/URL]

So he started 41 games on 2 different tournament level teams in the Big 10. I'm not saying he played on two different programs, he played both years on Rutgers, but each year is it's own team.

I'm confused on how you guys are still struggling to comprehend that.  This stuff is easy to google, takes 10 seconds.  I didn't say he was a world beater, just posted how many times he's started on a good teams in a good league.




 

Again not interpreting anything.

Fact - played on one NCAA tourney team.

Fact - lost his spot in the starting lineup.

Opinion- easily been one of our 5 best players so far.

Not debating if he is good enough to start for us or a good BE team. But don’t get mad at me if you point to facts that aren’t in fact facts.

Ask mark Turgeon if there was a tourney 2 years ago.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about 2019-2020 season.  Seems like you want it not to exist simply because the tournament was cancelled.  I watched the season and remember the good teams that year and kept up with bracketology, Rutgers was a tournament team, you can go ask any bracketologist that.

And I have no idea what Mark Turgeon has to do with the discussion of how many games Mathis started on tournament teams... but ok.

Well when you say things like go ahead and google it. What happens when you google, “how many NCAA tournaments has Rutgers played in this century?”

My only opinion on this whole stance is that both you and Monte have a valid point and neither of you want to admit it.

He was good enough to start and played poorly enough to lose his job.

 

[MakingPlays]

Not for nothing but in terms of Facts mathis played on one NCAA tourney team. And the one he was on moved him to the bench halfway through the season. Those are facts. 

1.  Tournament Team one (Started 31 out of 31 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2020[/URL]

Tournament was cancelled, doesn't change the fact the team was a lock to make the tournament regardless of their performance in the Big 10 tournament.  This was a GOOD Big 10 team, several top 25 wins, finished 11-9 in conference.

2. Tournament Team two (Started 13 of 28 Games)
[URL]https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/164/season/2021[/URL]

So he started 41 games on 2 different tournament level teams in the Big 10. I'm not saying he played on two different programs, he played both years on Rutgers, but each year is it's own team.

I'm confused on how you guys are still struggling to comprehend that.  This stuff is easy to google, takes 10 seconds.  I didn't say he was a world beater, just posted how many times he's started on a good teams in a good league.





 

Again not interpreting anything.

Fact - played on one NCAA tourney team.

Fact - lost his spot in the starting lineup.

Opinion- easily been one of our 5 best players so far.

Not debating if he is good enough to start for us or a good BE team. But don’t get mad at me if you point to facts that aren’t in fact facts.

Ask mark Turgeon if there was a tourney 2 years ago.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about 2019-2020 season.  Seems like you want it not to exist simply because the tournament was cancelled.  I watched the season and remember the good teams that year and kept up with bracketology, Rutgers was a tournament team, you can go ask any bracketologist that.

And I have no idea what Mark Turgeon has to do with the discussion of how many games Mathis started on tournament teams... but ok.

Well when you say things like go ahead and google it. What happens when you google, “how many NCAA tournaments has Rutgers played in this century?”

My only opinion on this whole stance is that both you and Monte have a valid point and neither of you want to admit it.

He was good enough to start and played poorly enough to lose his job.

My goodness guy, you don't have a podcast to record or something? I love a good debate, but dang man, I'm not going to lie, you knitpick at every little thing and keep going even after someone says, agree to disagree.  I just said the man started on tournaments teams and said how many games he started, that's literally it.   You're seriously trying to knitpick any say 2019-2020 doesn't matter, because season was stopped 4 days before selection Sunday.  Ok, you're right technically there was no tournament.  So, you got me there.  Sheesh, I'd hate to be a guest on your show, you'd argue for 30 minutes on the correct way to say Nyiwe.

 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

MP, Or I was pretty much agreeing with your point but you don’t want to see it that way.

Damn you get riled up easily. I feel like every time I talk with you I have to convince you I’m not arguing with you. Sorry for nit picking but who responded to who here? But thanks for the shoutout. 

(en-WHY)

 

[MakingPlays]

Or I was pretty much agreeing with your point but you don’t want to see it that way.

Damn you get riled up easily. I feel like every time I talk with you I have to convince you I’m not arguing with you.

(en-WHY)

LOL, you literally always do this.  I don't have a problem with you and I'm not "riled up" either.  My issue is whenever we have a back and forth, even after I'm like "alright dude" or "agree to disagree" you keep on pushing it.  Most people get it, but it's like you want an official concession speech or something before you let it go. 

Anyways, this my official concession.  You win the Montez Mathis argument.  I'm out have a good one!

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Or I was pretty much agreeing with your point but you don’t want to see it that way.

Damn you get riled up easily. I feel like every time I talk with you I have to convince you I’m not arguing with you.

(en-WHY)

LOL, you literally always do this.  I don't have a problem with you and I'm not "riled up" either.  My issue is whenever we have a back and forth, even after I'm like "alright dude" or "agree to disagree" you keep on pushing it.  Most people get it, but it's like you want an official concession speech or something before you let it go. 

Anyways, this my official concession.  You win the Montez Mathis argument.  I'm out have a good one!

All we have to do is read this back to see who took it personal and who pushed it. I said riled up because you felt the need to take a personal shot. It’s all good I don’t mind, but don’t get defensive about it either.

Again what argument did I win? This wasn’t an argument. I stated facts, that you disputed. And I agreed with your opinion that Montez could start on an ncaa tourney team. But because I also can point to the fact that he lost his starting job that must prove I’m a nit picker who refuses to give an inch.


Thanks enjoy yours too

 

[fuchsia]

Can we use the Sinatra pronunciation as official?  I did it Nyiwe.

 

[IDRAFT]

Correct way to say Nyiwe.

Secret Weapon

 

[MakingPlays]

Or I was pretty much agreeing with your point but you don’t want to see it that way.

Damn you get riled up easily. I feel like every time I talk with you I have to convince you I’m not arguing with you.

(en-WHY)

LOL, you literally always do this.  I don't have a problem with you and I'm not "riled up" either.  My issue is whenever we have a back and forth, even after I'm like "alright dude" or "agree to disagree" you keep on pushing it.  Most people get it, but it's like you want an official concession speech or something before you let it go. 

Anyways, this my official concession.  You win the Montez Mathis argument.  I'm out have a good one!

All we have to do is read this back to see who took it personal and who pushed it. I said riled up because you felt the need to take a personal shot. It’s all good I don’t mind, but don’t get defensive about it either.

Again what argument did I win? This wasn’t an argument. I stated facts, that you disputed. And I agreed with your opinion that Montez could start on an ncaa tourney team. But because I also can point to the fact that he lost his starting job that must prove I’m a nit picker who refuses to give an inch.


Thanks enjoy yours too

LOL, are you serious? I didn't go personal on you.  You know damn well the podcast comment about you arguing 30 minutes about Nyiwe's name was joking pointing out how you like to nitpick at stuff and keep an argument going like you are right now... As you can see other posters got the joke. 

This is my last response to you in this thread seriously this time, I'm tired of the back and forth, so I know the other posters are tired of reading it as well.  My apologizes to everyone.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Or I was pretty much agreeing with your point but you don’t want to see it that way.

Damn you get riled up easily. I feel like every time I talk with you I have to convince you I’m not arguing with you.

(en-WHY)

LOL, you literally always do this.  I don't have a problem with you and I'm not "riled up" either.  My issue is whenever we have a back and forth, even after I'm like "alright dude" or "agree to disagree" you keep on pushing it.  Most people get it, but it's like you want an official concession speech or something before you let it go. 

Anyways, this my official concession.  You win the Montez Mathis argument.  I'm out have a good one!

All we have to do is read this back to see who took it personal and who pushed it. I said riled up because you felt the need to take a personal shot. It’s all good I don’t mind, but don’t get defensive about it either.

Again what argument did I win? This wasn’t an argument. I stated facts, that you disputed. And I agreed with your opinion that Montez could start on an ncaa tourney team. But because I also can point to the fact that he lost his starting job that must prove I’m a nit picker who refuses to give an inch.


Thanks enjoy yours too

LOL, are you serious? I didn't go personal on you.  You know damn well the podcast comment about you arguing 30 minutes about Nyiwe's name was joking pointing out how you like to nitpick at stuff and keep an argument going like you are right now... As you can see other posters got the joke. 

This is my last response to you in this thread seriously this time, I'm tired of the back and forth, so I know the other posters are tired of reading it as well.  My apologizes to everyone.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Apologies accepted; I've seen Politicians talk less and those types like to talk.