(POST-GAME) Butler, Tues. Feb. 12, 8:30pm, CBS SN / 970AM

[quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote]

This is a product of constantly rebuilding. It is exasperated by Mullin and staff’s inexperience and some plain bad luck with guys like Lovett and Mussini/RF.
 
[quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote] that's why I don't buy the balanced roster nonsense. To me balanced also means you are getting production off the bench
 
[quote="bamafan" post=322576][quote="Knight" post=322520]This team gets killed on the boards because we have no one in position to rebound. I hate the sight of shoot-and-retreat with 4-5 opponents in position to rebound, while our guys backpedal on defense. Crash the boards, damn it.[/quote]
The strange thing is we do it every game even against opponents where they even acknowledge that they do not want to get in a running game with St. J's, so if they want a slower paced half court game would it kill us to send 1-2 guys to the offensive boards? Last night was an example although I must say outside of Figgy and maybe Simon we don't really have guys that appear could do a good job offensive rebounding. You would think Clark but that would necessitate him actually going after the ball off the board (like Clark for other things but he is just not an aggressive rebounder).[/quote]

We really need 1 or 2 junk yard dogs that love rebounding and getting after loose balls. Usually you can find a couple of these players who are happy even if they don't get the ball much. I gess this is a luxury when you have 3-4 players sitting our due to transferring. Every team has a player that loves the dirty work except us.

While I am at it, we could use a guy that could just knock down 3's, a sharpshooter, a specialist but we are severely missing this also. It is not Trinmble as all of his 3's are set shots. We need a catch a shoot marksman, even if they are not great on D as you can use them in spot duty to take teams out of zone.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=322589][quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote]

This is a product of constantly rebuilding. It is exasperated by Mullin and staff’s inexperience and some plain bad luck with guys like Lovett and Mussini/RF.[/quote]

You can constantly rebuild and still have a deep bench. They would just be a lot of talented freshmen.

Your second sentence has more merit. But the ultimate reason is simple, poor recruiting and the idea of being TRANSFER U. Remember SJU is using all 13 scholarships. All of them and yet they get ZILCH from their bench. 3 sit transfers, 3 freshmen and 2 non-freshmen that are very underwhelming.

Very simply the staff makeup (not the HC) and overall strategy needs to change after this year.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=322590][quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote] that's why I don't buy the balanced roster nonsense. To me balanced also means you are getting production off the bench[/quote]

Just think about this, most BE teams have either a freshman starting or in their main rotation and for the most part multiple freshmen. SJU does not. Greg Williams is the closest and he has been a DNP for many games this year. I like him but he isn't close to starting material.
 
Mullin hasn't lost his NBA mentality where players at the end of the bench are shuffled off the team if they don't produce right away. We've had way too many players transfer...players who could have helped us. He has to figure out how to keep players sticking around.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=322596]Mullin hasn't lost his NBA mentality where players at the end of the bench are shuffled off the team if they don't produce right away. We've had way too many players transfer...players who could have helped us. He has to figure out how to keep players sticking around.[/quote]

Listen I get the idea of losing kids to transfer, but how does that explain the fact that they have 13 scholarship players currently on the roster? In other words they are using every available scholarship now. People are acting like they only have 7-8 scholarship players available because of outgoing transfers. No they have all of them used up.

If you are going to use 2-3 on sit transfers every year then you better not whiff on your freshmen recruits. You need to recruit better on the prep level. And that along with too much of a reliance on transfers is causing this lack of depth. And if the roster shakes out like I think it might after this year it will really rear it's ugly head starting next year. That is why it is imperative that things change soon.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=322593][quote="Marillac" post=322589][quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote]

This is a product of constantly rebuilding. It is exasperated by Mullin and staff’s inexperience and some plain bad luck with guys like Lovett and Mussini/RF.[/quote]

You can constantly rebuild and still have a deep bench. They would just be a lot of talented freshmen.

Your second sentence has more merit. But the ultimate reason is simple, poor recruiting and the idea of being TRANSFER U. Remember SJU is using all 13 scholarships. All of them and yet they get ZILCH from their bench. 3 sit transfers, 3 freshmen and 2 non-freshmen that are very underwhelming.

Very simply the staff makeup (not the HC) and overall strategy needs to change after this year.[/quote]

The consequences of rebuilding do not end after the first year. The staff had to scramble and take chances to just field a team when they began and those early departures (when more talent was added) resulted in a second wave of scrambling. A lot of the problems we face this year are derivative of the mess the staff inherited.

Without naming names, there are a few guys on the roster we all understand were added under less than ideal circumstances. To chalk that all up to a lack of planning or recruiting is unfair and simply inaccurate. It’s actually very predictable and I have three-dozen posts about it happening again if Lavin fired. It will happen again if Mullin is fired.

I’m sore there is a hero coach out there that could come aboard and immediately start tearing it up, but that is rare.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=322594][quote="mjmaherjr" post=322590][quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote] that's why I don't buy the balanced roster nonsense. To me balanced also means you are getting production off the bench[/quote]

Just think about this, most BE teams have either a freshman starting or in their main rotation and for the most part multiple freshmen. SJU does not. Greg Williams is the closest and he has been a DNP for many games this year. I like him but he isn't close to starting material.[/quote]

Roberts should get minutes.
Keita should not play and you can easily take 2 or 3 mins from Clark and SImon.
Clearly Mullin really only trusts the starting 5 though. Not sure even if he had a capable, ready to contribute 6th or 7th guy that minutes distribution would be much different. Maybe a Louie thing?
 
[quote="Room112" post=322553]Really thought this should have been an easy win. Our shot selection and decision making in the 2nd half were horrendous. We did it to ourselves. Ponds did not seem interested either. I could not explain why he didn't have the ball in his hand every possession at the end of regulation and overtime.[/quote]



Actually I wanted to see the ball in Heron's hands. Simon handling the ball scares the hell out of me.
Still has trouble finishing.
 
While I am at it, we could use a guy that could just knock down 3's, a sharpshooter, a specialist but we are severely missing this also. It is not Trinmble as all of his 3's are set shots. We need a catch a shoot marksman, even if they are not great on D as you can use them in spot duty to take teams out of zone.[/quote]

Sounds like Marcus Howard.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=322603][quote="fordham96" post=322594][quote="mjmaherjr" post=322590][quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote] that's why I don't buy the balanced roster nonsense. To me balanced also means you are getting production off the bench[/quote]

Just think about this, most BE teams have either a freshman starting or in their main rotation and for the most part multiple freshmen. SJU does not. Greg Williams is the closest and he has been a DNP for many games this year. I like him but he isn't close to starting material.[/quote]

Roberts should get minutes.
Keita should not play and you can easily take 2 or 3 mins from Clark and SImon.
Clearly Mullin really only trusts the starting 5 though. Not sure even if he had a capable, ready to contribute 6th or 7th guy that minutes distribution would be much different. Maybe a Louie thing?[/quote]

Not playing Roberts is odd to me. Keita sucks. Let’s just call it like it is. It’s not like he even has a high ceiling. He has no awareness, no nose for the ball, and he worst hands you’ll ever see in high-major basketball.

Roberts’ ceiling is ridiculous. None of us were present in practice and saw him early on, so I will give the staff the benefit of the doubt, but Roberts clearly has a nose for the ball and none of our bigs have any interest in rebounding.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=322603][quote="fordham96" post=322594][quote="mjmaherjr" post=322590][quote="section10" post=322577]the tv stat of the night-
2017/2018 SJU last in bench points
2018/2019 SJU 8 from the ncaa bottom in bench points[/quote] that's why I don't buy the balanced roster nonsense. To me balanced also means you are getting production off the bench[/quote]

Just think about this, most BE teams have either a freshman starting or in their main rotation and for the most part multiple freshmen. SJU does not. Greg Williams is the closest and he has been a DNP for many games this year. I like him but he isn't close to starting material.[/quote]

Roberts should get minutes.
Keita should not play and you can easily take 2 or 3 mins from Clark and SImon.
Clearly Mullin really only trusts the starting 5 though. Not sure even if he had a capable, ready to contribute 6th or 7th guy that minutes distribution would be much different. Maybe a Louie thing?[/quote]


Remember Roberts was the first big man off the bench, still bringing energy. Kid has a nose for the ball. It becomes clear that Keita has no inside game, seems to shoot better facing the basket.
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=322604][quote="Room112" post=322553]Really thought this should have been an easy win. Our shot selection and decision making in the 2nd half were horrendous. We did it to ourselves. Ponds did not seem interested either. I could not explain why he didn't have the ball in his hand every possession at the end of regulation and overtime.[/quote]



Actually I wanted to see the ball in Heron's hands. Simon handling the ball scares the hell out of me.
Still has trouble finishing.[/quote]

I get the Simon angst. I really do. Because he is struggling to make shots he is trying to do too much and is pressing. Simon will always be a target because he jump shot form looks like how Elaine danced on Seinfeld.
With that being said, Heron despite not being a primary ball handler leads the team in TO's and his handle is really shaky when he is matched up with guys his size or smaller. Last night had a big on him and that worked to his advantage. Going forward I bet teams put their big on Simon.
 
These games age me, but I'll take an ugly win over a character-building loss any day of the week.
Lots of things to criticize, but at least we brought the energy. Ponds is behaving a little odd, IMO--punking the ref by leaving the ball was not a good look. But all in all, there's still reason to hope with this team (and age a few more years before the season is out.)
 
[quote="ron " post=322566][quote="we are sju" post=322565][quote="mjmaherjr" post=322555][quote="Paultzman" post=322551]It was significant that Heron shot 10 free throws v average of four last night. It seems he seldom got calls on bumps in lane in previous games & would be nice to see him get benefit of doubt more often. Of course each game differs, but his FTs really impacted game.[/quote] was talking about that with a friend the other day. It always seems like he should be getting another 4 ft's a game at minimum[/quote]

Refs hate us[/quote]

Refs gave us a break when Ponds punked them by leaving the ball at mid-court. They could have easily given him a technical which could have cost us the game.[/quote]


Agree. What the hell was he thinking. In fact talking about technicals Heron I'm sure won't be banging any backboard in the future.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=322609][quote="JackofVirginia" post=322604][quote="Room112" post=322553]Really thought this should have been an easy win. Our shot selection and decision making in the 2nd half were horrendous. We did it to ourselves. Ponds did not seem interested either. I could not explain why he didn't have the ball in his hand every possession at the end of regulation and overtime.[/quot



Actually I wanted to see the ball in Heron's hands. Simon handling the ball scares the hell out of me.
Still has trouble finishing.[/quote]

I get the Simon angst. I really do. Because he is struggling to make shots he is trying to do too much and is pressing. Simon will always be a target because he jump shot form looks like how Elaine danced on Seinfeld.
With that being said, Heron despite not being a primary ball handler leads the team in TO's and his handle is really shaky when he is matched up with guys his size or smaller. Last night had a big on him and that worked to his advantage. Going forward I bet teams put their big on Simon.[/quote]




I have to believe a lot of his turnovers came as a result of his getting bumped while driving through the middle. And of course the blind refs have missed the calls.
 
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We definitely don't have that back to basket type big and I've never seen one wear a SJ uniform since I really started seriously following in 2011. Keita has great size but as others have said, not much of a nose for the ball and comes off as pretty soft IMO. He doesn't attack, he seems to avoid contact if possible even with routine layups. The impulse to avoid contact might be negatively affecting his ability to finish. Kind of like when an announcer says a wide receiver "heard footsteps" from a defensive back and they don't concentrate on catching the ball instead. Roberts is very skinny and raw, but I saw him shooting an hour before the game and the kid can at worst be in the same ballpark as Tariq Owens IMO with more time, just a bit shorter. He had a surprising mid range shot that looked smooth but is probably not game ready yet. He plays harder than Keita and he just seems to get a jump on balls that Keita doesn't. Someone give the kid some burgers! By the way, having Mussini this year would have been massive. Not a monster, but he's the typical Butler or Creighton type kid who may not be the most athletic but can rain 3's in bunches.

Regarding refs, not sure if you could hear on TV but there were several pretty loud "These refs suck" chants. It does seem that the refs don't mind sticking it to Mullin from what I've seen vs. other coaches. The tech was very silly on Heron. Who calls that at home? It's like pulling a guy over for doing 56 in a 55. Maybe it's technically illegal, but why pull someone over for that? The missed over the back was terrible too. Simon had a Butler player crashing over his back to get a rebound and we got called instead. It was in the final minutes too. Ponds leaving ball at midcourt was stupid and immature. This will be a major concern of NBA scouts...maturity needs a lot of work IMO but he just has natural talent. Mullin ran out to go get the ball and I believe St. Jean gave Ponds some words of caution not to ever do that again.
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=322598][quote="newsman13" post=322596]Mullin hasn't lost his NBA mentality where players at the end of the bench are shuffled off the team if they don't produce right away. We've had way too many players transfer...players who could have helped us. He has to figure out how to keep players sticking around.[/quote]

Listen I get the idea of losing kids to transfer, but how does that explain the fact that they have 13 scholarship players currently on the roster? In other words they are using every available scholarship now. People are acting like they only have 7-8 scholarship players available because of outgoing transfers. No they have all of them used up.

If you are going to use 2-3 on sit transfers every year then you better not whiff on your freshmen recruits. You need to recruit better on the prep level. And that along with too much of a reliance on transfers is causing this lack of depth. And if the roster shakes out like I think it might after this year it will really rear it's ugly head starting next year. That is why it is imperative that things change soon.[/quote]

Right on the money. With 2 transfers sitting out, you have 11 scholarship players. We currently only dress 10 with Dixon's transfer. With the 3 freshmen getting few (if any) minutes, you have a rotation of 7 players (subs being Trimble and Keita. Williams doesn't play enough IMO to be a rotational guy). With our style of play, the starters are going to get tired late in the game. We need depth and need to be able to go more than 2 guys off the bench able to contribute and play meaningful minutes. And that's not even accounting for the possibility of foul trouble or (heaven forbid) injuries.

Had the freshmen played more during the OCC schedule, maybe they would be better prepared to help us now. Williams looks like he may be useful down the road but not right now. I'm encouraged by Roberts' eagerness to play and hope to see more of him.
 
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[quote="JackofVirginia" post=322612][quote="ron " post=322566][quote="we are sju" post=322565][quote="mjmaherjr" post=322555][quote="Paultzman" post=322551]It was significant that Heron shot 10 free throws v average of four last night. It seems he seldom got calls on bumps in lane in previous games & would be nice to see him get benefit of doubt more often. Of course each game differs, but his FTs really impacted game.[/quote] was talking about that with a friend the other day. It always seems like he should be getting another 4 ft's a game at minimum[/quote]

Refs hate us[/quote]

Refs gave us a break when Ponds punked them by leaving the ball at mid-court. They could have easily given him a technical which could have cost us the game.[/quote]


Agree. What the hell was he thinking. In fact talking about technicals Heron I'm sure won't be banging any backboard in the future.[/quote]

Ponds putting the ball down was one of the more egregious things I’ve seen a player do in several years. He did it twice earlier in the game as well, albeit not as far away. What is the point? He’s a projected late second round pick...he doesn’t have room for questions about his attitude.
 
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