(POST-GAME) @Butler, Sat. Jan. 19, 4:30pm, FOX / 570AM

[quote="mjmaherjr" post=316550][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316547][quote="Adam" post=316539][quote="Mike Zaun" post=316537]Nate Oats is a nice sounding name.[/quote]

Pretty cool name, but with how well he's doing he might hold out for a blue blood.[/quote]

Mas at Manhattan is still available[/quote] Pecora on the Shorea :)[/quote]

If that ever happened we could all take turns visiting the Maven at Creedmor Psychiatric and listen to him repeat over and over "Jesuit Gigolo", "Jesuit Gigolo", "Jesuit Gigolo".
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=316551][quote="redmannorth" post=316544][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=316542]Hey, how about the Players stepping up and playing harder and with more intensity ? If they can’t motivate themselves to play hard everyplay , isn’t that on them ? I keep saying this but , dreaming about winning the BE this season was this fan bases overreach . Even BE Coaches thought as a 4 th or 5 th place Team . We still are in that mix . Heron is a nice player . After cleared for transfer , many of us thought he was going to be All BE Conference and maybe challenge for POY . He isn’t at that level at this point and we can hope he ups his game . His Jumper is good , not great and his handle weak going to the rim . I think we also penciled him and Ponds in for 40 points a game combined . Nearly every Game . It hasn’t happened . Ponds is at around 21 a game and Heron about 15 . But, that includes early season games too . Simon and Clark are about what we saw last year . Good Players sure . Figgy is a pleasant surprise all around . Keita got Injured and is behind schedule . No one is at fault . Dixon’s loss is more critically felt . Forget his size and defense , he could play and score and a good spot up shooter . His loss is being felt . And , despite the clamoring for Williams , he isn’t ready yet for this level . Roberts and Earlington either . Trimble plays hard and will occasionally drain a 3 . He seemed to have more a green light last year . Let’s hope we finish in the top 4 and that should be enough to dance .[/quote]

The issue is not our starting five. Sure it is unbalanced not having a true four or five but our starting five are all very good. The issue 100% is our bench , or should I say the lack thereof. Keita has been nothing short of a huge disappointment to date. No more no less. Will he improve we all hope so but we need a contribution from him every game. Dixon’s departure was bad this season. Perhaps not next year but right now it is a big problem. Williams has shown he can contribute but for whatever reason is getting minimal pt. Trimble , well we have all seen what he can do. Earlington and Roberts are providing nothing right now and Wright and Caraher are sitting out. Unfortunately we have far too many bodies on the team providing absolutely zero production this season. Unfortunately that is on the staff and no one else.[/quote]

Keita, Dixon (now Stere) , Williams. Trimble, Wright and Caraher, Earlington and Josh Roberts.
That's EIGHT players who are (were) on scholarship not contributing.
That's most of the team!
We got lucky with Mustapha wanting to transfer and with Shamorie deciding to come back instead of leaving for guaranteed money overseas.
Now, imagine what the roster could have looked like in year four.
It's almost too nightmarish to envision and there would have been a distinct possibility of crashing to the bottom of the Big East once again.
Now, look at the roster of the last team to beat us in what is a down year for them, Butler. Their 2nd year head coach goes 9 deep with a bench that can produce points.
The only staffer scouting for St. John's is Matt who has never played the sport and who has a knack for attracting unhappy campers in the transfer market.
Not having another professional experienced college coach is killing this experiment dead in its tracks.
I'm hoping this AD has the foresight to manage a change for everyone's sake.[/quote]

Mullin is very loyal to his guys. Definitely possible that if Cragg demands a staff change (which he may be forced to do if we don't Dance) CM walks.
 
An assistant change is too late at this point. It will just cost more money and likely not have material impact of year # 5 as talent will be less and so will the expectation. This was the year for the change.
 
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[quote="stjohnnie75" post=316547][quote="Adam" post=316539][quote="Mike Zaun" post=316537]Nate Oats is a nice sounding name.[/quote]

Pretty cool name, but with how well he's doing he might hold out for a blue blood.[/quote]

Mas at Manhattan is still available[/quote]

I wouldn't mind seeing him as an assistant...
 
We’ve been snake-bit in a season most of us thought would launch the program’s revival,.
Much of it has been self-inflicted with lumpy and inadequate recruiting, some of it players unable to mesh as a team and still flourish individually, some of it lack of coaching direction, and some of it from our star player’s bad back and some gawd-awful ref calls.
All that said, we’re 3-4 in comference, and IF Ponds is 100% rest of the way, there’s no reason to not play much better, create some positive spin to our game, go 8-3 in conference and dance in March.
 
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[quote="Ray Morgan" post=316534][quote="Paultzman" post=316517][quote="Chicago Days" post=316516]Wish we knew what happened with missing on Femi.
Were we ever truly ‘in’ on the guy and missed for some reason, or was he put off by our style of hyper-guard/wing play?[/quote]
SJU was first team on him, but DP was more aggressive & I will leave it at that. Water under bridge at this point.[/quote]

While true that nothing can be done about it now, the question to be answered was whether the coach learned anything from this. We needed a big, Femi seems to be a pretty good one, and yet the talk is that the staff got outworked? If true, and nothing changes, then that's a problem.[/quote]

Yeah, well maybe he should step down if all he does is a half ass job.
He should go back to being the king GM, he won't have to work so hard.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=316553][quote="Class of 72" post=316551][quote="redmannorth" post=316544][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=316542]Hey, how about the Players stepping up and playing harder and with more intensity ? If they can’t motivate themselves to play hard everyplay , isn’t that on them ? I keep saying this but , dreaming about winning the BE this season was this fan bases overreach . Even BE Coaches thought as a 4 th or 5 th place Team . We still are in that mix . Heron is a nice player . After cleared for transfer , many of us thought he was going to be All BE Conference and maybe challenge for POY . He isn’t at that level at this point and we can hope he ups his game . His Jumper is good , not great and his handle weak going to the rim . I think we also penciled him and Ponds in for 40 points a game combined . Nearly every Game . It hasn’t happened . Ponds is at around 21 a game and Heron about 15 . But, that includes early season games too . Simon and Clark are about what we saw last year . Good Players sure . Figgy is a pleasant surprise all around . Keita got Injured and is behind schedule . No one is at fault . Dixon’s loss is more critically felt . Forget his size and defense , he could play and score and a good spot up shooter . His loss is being felt . And , despite the clamoring for Williams , he isn’t ready yet for this level . Roberts and Earlington either . Trimble plays hard and will occasionally drain a 3 . He seemed to have more a green light last year . Let’s hope we finish in the top 4 and that should be enough to dance .[/quote]

The issue is not our starting five. Sure it is unbalanced not having a true four or five but our starting five are all very good. The issue 100% is our bench , or should I say the lack thereof. Keita has been nothing short of a huge disappointment to date. No more no less. Will he improve we all hope so but we need a contribution from him every game. Dixon’s departure was bad this season. Perhaps not next year but right now it is a big problem. Williams has shown he can contribute but for whatever reason is getting minimal pt. Trimble , well we have all seen what he can do. Earlington and Roberts are providing nothing right now and Wright and Caraher are sitting out. Unfortunately we have far too many bodies on the team providing absolutely zero production this season. Unfortunately that is on the staff and no one else.[/quote]

Keita, Dixon (now Stere) , Williams. Trimble, Wright and Caraher, Earlington and Josh Roberts.
That's EIGHT players who are (were) on scholarship not contributing.
That's most of the team!
We got lucky with Mustapha wanting to transfer and with Shamorie deciding to come back instead of leaving for guaranteed money overseas.
Now, imagine what the roster could have looked like in year four.
It's almost too nightmarish to envision and there would have been a distinct possibility of crashing to the bottom of the Big East once again.
Now, look at the roster of the last team to beat us in what is a down year for them, Butler. Their 2nd year head coach goes 9 deep with a bench that can produce points.
The only staffer scouting for St. John's is Matt who has never played the sport and who has a knack for attracting unhappy campers in the transfer market.
Not having another professional experienced college coach is killing this experiment dead in its tracks.
I'm hoping this AD has the foresight to manage a change for everyone's sake.[/quote]

Mullin is very loyal to his guys. Definitely possible that if Cragg demands a staff change (which he may be forced to do if we don't Dance) CM walks.[/quote]

Cragg has to demand staff change, if no ncaa then it's 4 years of nothing, they gotta do something.
Every year of this is crap.
If Chris walks then good riddance.
 
[quote="ron " post=316503][quote="Mean Gene" post=316499][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=316497][quote="RedStormNC" post=316438]Very good teams find ways to win on the road. We are 19 games in and are not a very good team. Our OOC record is misleading. Our Big East record tells us who we are.

Talented but under achieving starting 5
Only one of them plays consistently hard & heady (LJ)
No bench which is on Mullin

I can't see how we do better than 9-9 and that will be a stretch, including more draining and head scratching losses like yesterday.

If Mullin cannot get this team to NCAA, we are screwed, as his future will be in jeopardy and he'll be lame duck coach that will make recruiting non existent. Cragg may not want that so who knows about year 5 or 6.

This game killed what should be an enjoyable weekend.

Step up boys....[/quote]

But we ever have a bench? No, it's just the same crap every damn year.

If no NCAA tourny, then why shouldn't he get canned, because of what he did 35yrs ago as a player?
Screw that. 4 years of nothing would be a disgrace, and don't use the bs "when he got here the cup board was bare." excuse.
There are no excuses this year. NCAA or BUST.[/quote]

The only way Mullin should stay if he doesn’t make the NCAA Tournament is if by some miracle he is still able to get Precious here. Otherwise, we should make a change. But, I trust Cragg on this. We finally have a guy who knows how and when to make decisions like this.[/quote]

I do not believe that one player will transform the program or solve the underlying problems.[/quote]

Agree. IMO, it won't transform the program nor solve the underlying problem. For the people who think simply making the dance will garner the services of Precious Achiuwa are delusional. It isn't that black and white.

Frankly, simply making the dance and losing in the first round won't suffice from where I stand. Especially, if we're an 8, 9, or 10 seed. Getting upset as a 4th or 5th seed is different, as that would mean we've done work in the regular season and just got picked off in the dance. Losing early in the dance as one of the former seeds mentioned tells me we've seriously underachieved and changes need to made in some form immediately.
 
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Still wish we replaced Richmond with Rice. One guy that could help with both local hs recruiting as well as with coaching.
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=316435]

5. The excuse that we are Transfer U is bogus IMO. It has worked out extremely well for other programs in the past. Iowa State and New Mexico State are two that immediately come to mind. They both depend heavily on transfers and make the NCAA tournament on a regular basis. It's just a lame (and convenient) excuse when we lose.
[/quote]

The big difference is that Iowa State also had several good players from high school. We only have Ponds.
 
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[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=316553][quote="Class of 72" post=316551][quote="redmannorth" post=316544][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=316542]Hey, how about the Players stepping up and playing harder and with more intensity ? If they can’t motivate themselves to play hard everyplay , isn’t that on them ? I keep saying this but , dreaming about winning the BE this season was this fan bases overreach . Even BE Coaches thought as a 4 th or 5 th place Team . We still are in that mix . Heron is a nice player . After cleared for transfer , many of us thought he was going to be All BE Conference and maybe challenge for POY . He isn’t at that level at this point and we can hope he ups his game . His Jumper is good , not great and his handle weak going to the rim . I think we also penciled him and Ponds in for 40 points a game combined . Nearly every Game . It hasn’t happened . Ponds is at around 21 a game and Heron about 15 . But, that includes early season games too . Simon and Clark are about what we saw last year . Good Players sure . Figgy is a pleasant surprise all around . Keita got Injured and is behind schedule . No one is at fault . Dixon’s loss is more critically felt . Forget his size and defense , he could play and score and a good spot up shooter . His loss is being felt . And , despite the clamoring for Williams , he isn’t ready yet for this level . Roberts and Earlington either . Trimble plays hard and will occasionally drain a 3 . He seemed to have more a green light last year . Let’s hope we finish in the top 4 and that should be enough to dance .[/quote]

The issue is not our starting five. Sure it is unbalanced not having a true four or five but our starting five are all very good. The issue 100% is our bench , or should I say the lack thereof. Keita has been nothing short of a huge disappointment to date. No more no less. Will he improve we all hope so but we need a contribution from him every game. Dixon’s departure was bad this season. Perhaps not next year but right now it is a big problem. Williams has shown he can contribute but for whatever reason is getting minimal pt. Trimble , well we have all seen what he can do. Earlington and Roberts are providing nothing right now and Wright and Caraher are sitting out. Unfortunately we have far too many bodies on the team providing absolutely zero production this season. Unfortunately that is on the staff and no one else.[/quote]

Keita, Dixon (now Stere) , Williams. Trimble, Wright and Caraher, Earlington and Josh Roberts.
That's EIGHT players who are (were) on scholarship not contributing.
That's most of the team!
We got lucky with Mustapha wanting to transfer and with Shamorie deciding to come back instead of leaving for guaranteed money overseas.
Now, imagine what the roster could have looked like in year four.
It's almost too nightmarish to envision and there would have been a distinct possibility of crashing to the bottom of the Big East once again.
Now, look at the roster of the last team to beat us in what is a down year for them, Butler. Their 2nd year head coach goes 9 deep with a bench that can produce points.
The only staffer scouting for St. John's is Matt who has never played the sport and who has a knack for attracting unhappy campers in the transfer market.
Not having another professional experienced college coach is killing this experiment dead in its tracks.
I'm hoping this AD has the foresight to manage a change for everyone's sake.[/quote]

Mullin is very loyal to his guys. Definitely possible that if Cragg demands a staff change (which he may be forced to do if we don't Dance) CM walks.[/quote]

One can only hope!
 
With all due respect OSR, "good riddance"? Chris is the best player ever to wear the uniform. He took this job to try to bring us back to relevancy, and he has made the team and talent better each year he's been here. YES, there are flaws and lapses in the team, roster, coaching, but I think he is due more respect than "good riddance".

His coaching tenure may or may not turn out to be a success. The biggest reason I was hesitant for him to take the job was that it could spoil his legacy among our fickle alums. But, I appreciate the fact that he took on the job to try to return our program (the one HE was largely responsible for making a top program for a time) to competitiveness.

If he leaves, he still deserves the respect that he earned. I bet that if we don't make the tourney this year, he will "retire" knowing that it is time to let someone else try.

I just don't get the disdain and disrespect shown a man who though inexperienced and flawed as a coach is owed some modicum of respect for all he's meant to the program, and all the pleasure he gave to us old guys who saw him play.

Just my 2 cents.

[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=316563][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=316553][quote="Class of 72"

Cragg has to demand staff change, if no ncaa then it's 4 years of nothing, they gotta do something.
Every year of this is crap.
If Chris walks then good riddance.[/quote]
 
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[quote="redmanwest" post=316571]With all due respect OSR, "good riddance"? Chris is the best player ever to wear the uniform. He took this job to try to bring us back to relevancy, and he has made the team and talent better each year he's been here. YES, there are flaws and lapses in the team, roster, coaching, but I think he is due more respect than "good riddance".

His coaching tenure may or may not turn out to be a success. The biggest reason I was hesitant for him to take the job was that it could spoil his legacy among our fickle alums. But, I appreciate the fact that he took on the job to try to return our program (the one HE was largely responsible for making a top program for a time) to competitiveness.

If he leaves, he still deserves the respect that he earned. I bet that if we don't make the tourney this year, he will "retire" knowing that it is time to let someone else try.

I just don't get the disdain and disrespect shown a man who though inexperienced and flawed as a coach is owed some modicum of respect for all he's meant to the program, and all the pleasure he gave to us old guys who saw him play.

Just my 2 cents.

[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=316563][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=316553][quote="Class of 72"

Cragg has to demand staff change, if no ncaa then it's 4 years of nothing, they gotta do something.
Every year of this is crap.
If Chris walks then good riddance.[/quote][/quote]


I would say that about 75% of fans I encounter are aware of this site. Most don't post here, by far, and most don't pay much attention. The main reason? The constant negativity and stupidity. Two games ago, most of the big detractors were so anxious to proclaim BE coach of the year, BE season title, and to reassert their love for everything St. John's. Granted that don't most have season tix, don't come to games at CA (or MSG for that matter). With every single loss, they cannot contain themselves to point out deficiencies of the staff, depth, and talent of the team. Again. And again. And again. And again.

Honestly I don't give a shit about how warm CA gets when filled, I'll take it filled any day, and honestly, it is no where near as hot as people say. I dunno, maybe some guys are going through the hot flashes stage of their life.

It's tiresome to hear about the lack of seatbacks. Everyone would like seatbacks, yes. But if you think it makes sense to make that one of your top issues when you spoke to Cragg 1 x, yes he will treat you with respect, but it's pretty idiotic. It isn't a cost issue, it's a capacity issue. Seatbacks reduce # of available seats considerably, and if you put seatbacks in the lower bowl, a substantial number of fans will be bumped to the upper tiers. And if you put seatbacks everywhere, I don't know the exact number, but I bet you lose somewhere around 1000 seats. IF you are 70, I sympathize. If you are 30, hit the gym, or see a chiropractor. The loudest bitcher about this doesn't even have season tix, yet drones on and on about it. If we blow out CA to enlarge capacity, I'm pretty certain that most if not all areas will have seats. Then again, the big issue other than real estate to expand, is that Finneran went to Villanova and so did his dollars to help finance it.

I just don't get the vitriol against Mullin at all. I would say he is pretty comfortable for life, and could have stayed in the NBA and cashed a paycheck in a better climate locale. But instead he comes to this dump of a program, with a goal to restore it. If you haven't noticed, guys have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER flooded here. We'd snare a top HS prospect, a Mullin, a George Johnson, a Ron Artest, Felipe Lopez, or Zendon, or Wayne McKoy, and then backfill with a horde of second tier guys and transfers. We never EVER had a recruiting machine. Don't talk about the 85 team, please. Mullin was 3x BE player of the year, Berry was Juco, Wennington not a prized recruit. Mark Jackson was a distant 3rd best point guard in the city, after Kenny Smith and Pearl, both of whom we didn't even get a sniff at.

Before then, it was Reggie Carter coming home, Berard Rencher coming home, Ed Searcy coming home, even Curtis Redding. A horde over time. So stop with this dumb transfer game horseshit. We've ALWAYS relied heavily on transfers, and almost always benfitted from NYC city kids who left and weren't happy elsewhere - maybe more than any team in the country because of our geographical location.

If you guys think that supporting this team means that you give your support only when we win, that's not support. Do you heap praise on your kids when they get an A in science, only to tell them how much they suck when they get a D in math? Well, maybe you do. I've heard good guys, a neighbor for one, screaming at his son simply because the kid wasn't so bright and his 4th grade report card blew.

You want to support the team, I mean really? Then shoot Cragg, or Chris, or Greg, or Matt an email or twitter message after a tough loss, or an injury or setback. They'd likely really appreciate it, even if they don't respond or "like" your comment. You know what? You'll feel better about it too. Maybe.

I'm guessing most of us cou;dn't write a $22 million check to renovate CA, or a $4 million check to hire a guy like Hurley (who is taking his share of idiocy from some UCONN "fans"). But even a $50, $100, or $500 donation (your tix aren't a donation) helps improve the program. That's the way we can be part of the solution, instead of propagating negativity that is by all means part of the problem.
 
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A more basic question. Is the Don Nelson Warriors model of play workable with college turnover, particularly transfer-focused model? Is our style of play in conflict with our roster management?
 
[quote="fordham96" post=316555][quote="stjohnnie75" post=316547][quote="Adam" post=316539][quote="Mike Zaun" post=316537]Nate Oats is a nice sounding name.[/quote]

Pretty cool name, but with how well he's doing he might hold out for a blue blood.[/quote]

Mas at Manhattan is still available[/quote]

I wouldn't mind seeing him as an assistant...[/quote]

What impresses you about him to even be an assistant coach?

I mean his current record as a head coach is 119-122 (40-69 since 2015-16) and he doesn’t seem to be getting quality recruits.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=316572]

Wennington not a prized recruit.

[/quote]

Bill Wennington was a McDonald´s All-American.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=316573]A more basic question. Is the Don Nelson Warriors model of play workable with college turnover, particularly transfer-focused model? Is our style of play in conflict with our roster management?[/quote]


Do remember Manute Bol shooting 3's?

It's an offense that appears to be with less set plays, and more focused on motion, penetration, dish to spot up shooters, and transition breaks. Our guys seem to be well suited to it. Of course we'd like to have a bigger front line and more depth, and the absence of both hurts us when outsized or when foul trouble hits.

I can't see how anyone can contain Zion, with his freaky quickness, vertical leap, and 280 lb body. Sorry to digress, just rolling for forward to Duke game and how I shouldn't even contemplate a trip down there.
 
[quote="gonzalo" post=316577][quote="Beast of the East" post=316572]

Wennington not a prized recruit.

[/quote]

Bill Wennington was a McDonald´s All-American.[/quote]

I believe Shelton Jones was also. But there was no clamor that we had just snagged a superb player. They both were very solid and both played in the NBA (Wennington 14 seasons of mostly towel waving). But they were far from the category of recruit that could have gone anywhere.
 
In simplest, unemotional terms;

Roster is indeed thin, but core is talented.

Team to date has been very inconsistent.

Absence of some interior strength always gave me pause.

Big East is especially tough top to bottom this season and suspect SJU will have even less chance to dance next season, too many teams returning much better rising players.

Team does not quit on staff and vice versa.

Never liked the Mullin hire & staff choices for most part, but rather than suggest additions like Masiello, Al LoBalbo, Clair Bee, etc. I favor letting Cragg do his job and making staff changes necessary in sober manner.

Fan disappointment is quite logical & understandable, but we do get carried away. Let the season play out & see what happens.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=316580]In simplest, unemotional terms;

Roster is indeed thin, but core is talented.

Team to date has been very inconsistent.

Absence of some interior strength always gave me pause.

Big East is especially tough top to bottom this season and suspect SJU will have even less chance to dance next season, too many teams returning much better rising players.

Team does not quit on staff and vice versa.

Never liked the Mullin hire & staff choices for most part, but rather than suggest additions like Masiello, Al LoBalbo, Clair Bee, etc. I favor letting Cragg do his job and making staff changes necessary in sober manner.

Fan disappointment is quite logical & understandable, but we do get carried away. Let the season play out & see what happens.[/quote]
I hate this post because it’s so accurate. I also think that recruiting is on the rise, and would hate to start back at square zero - yeah, I know that’s not the expression, but my alteration seems to apply to us (again).
 
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