Playing Time - Why?
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[quote="JackofVirginia" post=304715]
Assuming Simon, Keita, Fiqueroa, and Dixon return next year who will get major playing time from the following: Wright, Steere, Caraher, Mack, Williams,Roberts, Trimble, or Earlington.? And why?[/quote]
Too early. It's not a foregone conclusion Heron and Ponds both leave either. The standard for getting drafted as juniors is much higher than for underclassmen.
A lot of these new guys know they are in a position to have to earn time unlike years past where there was an expectation and a feeling of entitlement. That's the difference between kids that come aboard when there are two scholarship players v. kids that enter a program with a full roster.
Assuming Simon, Keita, Fiqueroa, and Dixon return next year who will get major playing time from the following: Wright, Steere, Caraher, Mack, Williams,Roberts, Trimble, or Earlington.? And why?[/quote]Too early. It's not a foregone conclusion Heron and Ponds both leave either. The standard for getting drafted as juniors is much higher than for underclassmen.
A lot of these new guys know they are in a position to have to earn time unlike years past where there was an expectation and a feeling of entitlement. That's the difference between kids that come aboard when there are two scholarship players v. kids that enter a program with a full roster.
[quote="Marillac" post=304722][quote="JackofVirginia" post=304715] Assuming Simon, Keita, Fiqueroa, and Dixon return next year who will get major playing time from the following: Wright, Steere, Caraher, Mack, Williams,Roberts, Trimble, or Earlington.? And why?[/quote]
Too early. It's not a foregone conclusion Heron and Ponds both leave either. The standard for getting drafted as juniors is much higher than for underclassmen.
A lot of these new guys know they are in a position to have to earn time unlike years past where there was an expectation and a feeling of entitlement. That's the difference between kids that come aboard when there are two scholarship players v. kids that enter a program with a full roster.[/quote]
May not be “foregone conclusion” in purest sense, but staff does not feel there is much chance Heron & Ponds return.
Assuming Simon, Keita, Fiqueroa, and Dixon return next year who will get major playing time from the following: Wright, Steere, Caraher, Mack, Williams,Roberts, Trimble, or Earlington.? And why?[/quote]Too early. It's not a foregone conclusion Heron and Ponds both leave either. The standard for getting drafted as juniors is much higher than for underclassmen.
A lot of these new guys know they are in a position to have to earn time unlike years past where there was an expectation and a feeling of entitlement. That's the difference between kids that come aboard when there are two scholarship players v. kids that enter a program with a full roster.[/quote]
May not be “foregone conclusion” in purest sense, but staff does not feel there is much chance Heron & Ponds return.
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L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="Paultzman" post=304723]
May not be “foregone conclusion” in purest sense, but staff does not feel there is much chance Heron & Ponds return.[/quote]
I think there's zero percent chance Ponds returns. I don't think Heron stays either, but I actually think chance of him staying is higher than zero percent, even though he possesses the more draftable body.
May not be “foregone conclusion” in purest sense, but staff does not feel there is much chance Heron & Ponds return.[/quote]
I think there's zero percent chance Ponds returns. I don't think Heron stays either, but I actually think chance of him staying is higher than zero percent, even though he possesses the more draftable body.
I hate to write this. But Earlingtons shots during the Rutgers game looked awfull. He got lucky and one went in. OTOH, I think Roberts and Williams have potential to be good 4 year players. I think Ponds is gone regardless. But Heron would have to be a first rounder for him to leave IMO.
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Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Paultzman" post=305088]Zach B
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.
[quote="Class of 72" post=305099][quote="Paultzman" post=305088]Zach B
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.
[quote="fordham96" post=305102][quote="Class of 72" post=305099][quote="Paultzman" post=305088]Zach B
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.[/quote]
Take a look at Top 100 recruit Jahvon Quinerly's stats.
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.[/quote]
Take a look at Top 100 recruit Jahvon Quinerly's stats.
[quote="fordham96" post=305102][quote="Class of 72" post=305099][quote="Paultzman" post=305088]Zach B
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.[/quote]
How about former commit top 100 recruit J'Raan Brooks who is averaging 3 and 1 for a mediocre USC team. If he had stayed true to SJU people would have expected big minutes from him and even he doesn't look ready. Unless you land 5 stars, it's all a crap shoot on how they will develop especially when going for athletes over skilled players.
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.[/quote]
How about former commit top 100 recruit J'Raan Brooks who is averaging 3 and 1 for a mediocre USC team. If he had stayed true to SJU people would have expected big minutes from him and even he doesn't look ready. Unless you land 5 stars, it's all a crap shoot on how they will develop especially when going for athletes over skilled players.
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[quote="gman" post=305149][quote="fordham96" post=305102][quote="Class of 72" post=305099][quote="Paultzman" post=305088]Zach B
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.[/quote]
How about former commit top 100 recruit J'Raan Brooks who is averaging 3 and 1 for a mediocre USC team. If he had stayed true to SJU people would have expected big minutes from him and even he doesn't look ready. Unless you land 5 stars, it's all a crap shoot on how they will develop especially when going for athletes over skilled players.[/quote]
Obviously not all top 100 players play immediately either I get that. But no you don't have to be a 5 star top 20 kid. Most top 50-75 kids are good enough to earn playing time.
The larger point is Roberts and Earlington are unranked and Williams was barely a top 150 player. I think you agree that has more to do with their adjustment as freshmen then just the fact they are freshmen.
Furthermore I agree that Brooks is probably not playing as much as maybe we thought he would, but my guess is his total minutes exceed both Earlington and Roberts even if you accept they are limited, no? You think Brooks would have sat the whole games against VCU and Cal?
Earlington and Roberts are literally DNP in many games so far. Even WITHOUT Keita when you thought by definition their time would INCREASE they are still getting little to no time on the court. You think even if Brooks was a bit overhyped he wouldn't play a little bit more under the current SJU situation then the two freshmen?
Chris Mullin on Josh Roberts: "Typical freshman, He needs a lot of work. I think he plays hard. It just has to be the right time [to get more minutes]. Keep working with him, I think he'll get better." #sjubb[/quote]
No coach he is a typical "St. John's" freshman. Ours needs a lot of work. One hundred others are starting for their teams in D1 basketball. Needless to say none of the freshmen at Duke you will be preparing your upper classmen for are typical or need a lot of work. It takes a lot of work to sign top 100 talent.[/quote]
Bingo. Certainly typical for non-top 100 recruits.[/quote]
How about former commit top 100 recruit J'Raan Brooks who is averaging 3 and 1 for a mediocre USC team. If he had stayed true to SJU people would have expected big minutes from him and even he doesn't look ready. Unless you land 5 stars, it's all a crap shoot on how they will develop especially when going for athletes over skilled players.[/quote]
Obviously not all top 100 players play immediately either I get that. But no you don't have to be a 5 star top 20 kid. Most top 50-75 kids are good enough to earn playing time.
The larger point is Roberts and Earlington are unranked and Williams was barely a top 150 player. I think you agree that has more to do with their adjustment as freshmen then just the fact they are freshmen.
Furthermore I agree that Brooks is probably not playing as much as maybe we thought he would, but my guess is his total minutes exceed both Earlington and Roberts even if you accept they are limited, no? You think Brooks would have sat the whole games against VCU and Cal?
Earlington and Roberts are literally DNP in many games so far. Even WITHOUT Keita when you thought by definition their time would INCREASE they are still getting little to no time on the court. You think even if Brooks was a bit overhyped he wouldn't play a little bit more under the current SJU situation then the two freshmen?
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Let's be clear unlike others I am not questioning or criticizing why Coach is not playing these guys more. He would know more than me since he literally coaches them every day. I think it is obvious why they are not playing, THEY AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. Even with injury to Keita.
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,
[quote="fordham96" post=305155]Let's be clear unlike others I am not questioning or criticizing why Coach is not playing these guys more. He would know more than me since he literally coaches them every day. I think it is obvious why they are not playing, THEY AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. Even with injury to Keita.
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,[/quote]
Did you miss what's going on with most of the blue bloods with what it took to land 5 star players? Would you be satisfied if we have a team full of top 100 recruits but found out later we were paying them?
How about LJ Figeroa, can you give Mullin some props for landing him, since he's outperforming most every top 100 player?
Finally, is it really still a shocker to you we can't land top 100 kids after being an irrelevant program for two decades? Why continue to beat that drum?
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,[/quote]
Did you miss what's going on with most of the blue bloods with what it took to land 5 star players? Would you be satisfied if we have a team full of top 100 recruits but found out later we were paying them?
How about LJ Figeroa, can you give Mullin some props for landing him, since he's outperforming most every top 100 player?
Finally, is it really still a shocker to you we can't land top 100 kids after being an irrelevant program for two decades? Why continue to beat that drum?
And for the record because CONTEXT is important USC has 6-11 Nick Rakocevic, 6-10 Bennie Boatwright and 6-7 Shaqquan Aaron all playing more than 27 minutes per game.
If SJU had that type of talent ALREADY upfront then Brooks probably would not be playing big minutes either.
Larger point, to simply translate his playing time at USC to the current SJU situation especially considering Keita is hurt, is not comparable and not a fair.
If SJU had that type of talent ALREADY upfront then Brooks probably would not be playing big minutes either.
Larger point, to simply translate his playing time at USC to the current SJU situation especially considering Keita is hurt, is not comparable and not a fair.
[quote="fordham96" post=305155]Let's be clear unlike others I am not questioning or criticizing why Coach is not playing these guys more. He would know more than me since he literally coaches them every day. I think it is obvious why they are not playing, THEY AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. Even with injury to Keita.
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,[/quote]
I agree here. Greg Williams looks ok and should be fine. Roberts played and still should at times just for a quick spell of Clark, but he’s really green and doesn’t seem to quite understand basketball very well. Awkward often, but athletic. I still scratch my head about Earlington. This isn’t his level and he won’t play here.
SJU needs more capable depth by far. We have to land better high school players period. We also shouldn’t be stuck with no bigs and then just several guys that can’t olay at this level. My only issue with him not playing Roberts at least a little bit, is because he was the only guy on our bench that was big and athletic enough to spell Clark in the post for a few minutes at a time. I admit, he’s a ton more raw that I expected.
Of the 3 freshmen, i think Greg Williams is the only one who will step into more time next season. More skills guys like Caraher, even if not a super athlete, will come off the bench sooner, with more skill set and having both Keita and Steere, we finally have post-options.
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,[/quote]
I agree here. Greg Williams looks ok and should be fine. Roberts played and still should at times just for a quick spell of Clark, but he’s really green and doesn’t seem to quite understand basketball very well. Awkward often, but athletic. I still scratch my head about Earlington. This isn’t his level and he won’t play here.
SJU needs more capable depth by far. We have to land better high school players period. We also shouldn’t be stuck with no bigs and then just several guys that can’t olay at this level. My only issue with him not playing Roberts at least a little bit, is because he was the only guy on our bench that was big and athletic enough to spell Clark in the post for a few minutes at a time. I admit, he’s a ton more raw that I expected.
Of the 3 freshmen, i think Greg Williams is the only one who will step into more time next season. More skills guys like Caraher, even if not a super athlete, will come off the bench sooner, with more skill set and having both Keita and Steere, we finally have post-options.
[quote="Room112" post=305156][quote="fordham96" post=305155]Let's be clear unlike others I am not questioning or criticizing why Coach is not playing these guys more. He would know more than me since he literally coaches them every day. I think it is obvious why they are not playing, THEY AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. Even with injury to Keita.
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,[/quote]
Did you miss what's going on with most of the blue bloods with what it took to land 5 star players? Would you be satisfied if we have a team full of top 100 recruits but found out later we were paying them?
How about LJ Figeroa, can you give Mullin some props for landing him, since he's outperforming most every top 100 player?
Finally, is it really still a shocker to you we can't land top 100 kids after being an irrelevant program for two decades? Why continue to beat that drum?[/quote]
I gave him plenty of credit for landing Figueroa. And the excuse about being weak and that is the reason for not landing better players is garbage. Simply not the case. that is a tired excuse. Furthermore they chose to go the transfer route. I think Lavin landed 4 to 5 top 100 guys before he coached a game.
And guess what guys, if you are going to use the excuse that when Mullin was hired we should not have expected consistent top 100 players (even before the Slice debacle) because SJU has been down so long. Then I should expect not only a great year this year but also the top 100 kids should start rolling in no? Can't have it both ways.
The issue then in my book is recruiting. When you whiff on every major target and end up settling for lesser players then guess what, the game is simply above them when they are freshmen. That is the larger point,[/quote]
Did you miss what's going on with most of the blue bloods with what it took to land 5 star players? Would you be satisfied if we have a team full of top 100 recruits but found out later we were paying them?
How about LJ Figeroa, can you give Mullin some props for landing him, since he's outperforming most every top 100 player?
Finally, is it really still a shocker to you we can't land top 100 kids after being an irrelevant program for two decades? Why continue to beat that drum?[/quote]
I gave him plenty of credit for landing Figueroa. And the excuse about being weak and that is the reason for not landing better players is garbage. Simply not the case. that is a tired excuse. Furthermore they chose to go the transfer route. I think Lavin landed 4 to 5 top 100 guys before he coached a game.
And guess what guys, if you are going to use the excuse that when Mullin was hired we should not have expected consistent top 100 players (even before the Slice debacle) because SJU has been down so long. Then I should expect not only a great year this year but also the top 100 kids should start rolling in no? Can't have it both ways.
BTW-People have short memories when they act like I am being overly critical. When Heron became available there were many on this board who were not overly excited because SJU really needed a big. Not me, I understood the concern of needing a big. But I said absolutely need to take Heron even if he doesn't come from a need position. And they are clearly better with him.
But there was plenty of criticism, and not from me, about lack of frontcourt depth and the fact that the freshmen may not be ready. And that was months ago. Well some of that is coming to fruition, even if they are 6-0.
And that is all I am saying.
But there was plenty of criticism, and not from me, about lack of frontcourt depth and the fact that the freshmen may not be ready. And that was months ago. Well some of that is coming to fruition, even if they are 6-0.
And that is all I am saying.