Playing Time - Why?

[quote="we are sju" post=305267][quote="fordham96" post=305265][quote="fordham96" post=305264][quote="we are sju" post=305263]Kansas Jayhawks Stats - 2018-19
Year:

Game Statistics
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Lagerald Vick 5 36.8 19.6 3.8 2.0 1.6 0.0 2.2 .571 .714 .583
Dedric Lawson 5 31.6 17.8 10.4 3.8 1.0 0.8 2.6 .433 .750 .167
Udoka Azubuike 5 21.8 14.4 6.0 0.8 0.4 2.0 2.6 .667 .364 .000
Devon Dotson 5 30.4 10.8 3.6 2.4 1.6 0.0 1.8 .541 .818 .500
Quentin Grimes 5 27.8 9.0 2.8 3.4 0.6 0.0 1.8 .389 .615 .474
Marcus Garrett 4 23.0 6.3 2.8 2.5 1.0 0.5 0.5 .280 .667 .167
Charlie Moore 5 19.8 3.4 2.0 1.4 0.4 0.0 0.4 .273 .750 .182
K.J. Lawson 5 7.2 2.8 2.8 0.2 0.6 0.0 0.4 .667 .625 .500
David McCormack 4 5.3 1.8 2.5 0.3 0.0 0.3 0.5 .429 .250 .000
Mitch Lightfoot 5 7.0 1.6 1.4 0.4 0.0 0.8 0.2 .750 .667 .000
Totals 5 -- 86 41 17 7 4 13 .489 .638 .440
Season Statistics[/quote]

No genius that is not what I am talking about.

Furthermore you said MOST teams. I didn't ask you genius to cherry pick one or two I asked you to find most teams that limit themselves to EIGHT players with all the minutes.

I cherry picked a handful since I never said MOST teams YOU DID. The burden is on you to show me.[/quote]

SJU currently has 6 players averaging over 10 minutes a game not even 7 let alone 8 let alone 9.

Villanova has 10 genius.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/222[/quote]

I went to first 5 teams in rankings. Wasn't cherry picking, went in order.
ST John's would most likely play 8 if Keita had not gotten hurt. But AGAIN I agree Trimble probably should not be in a good team's rotation and they should have at least another big in rotation. And yes even with an 8 man rotation we would be weak at back end of rotation. I am not arguing we are deep.
My point was with people questioning why we recruited the three frosh and why they are not playing. They were recruited for back of roster and most back of rosters DON'T play.-Per ESPN TEAM STAT PAGE[/quote]

Too bad this bickering can't be taken private!
 
[quote="ron s m" post=305268][quote="we are sju" post=305267][quote="fordham96" post=305265][quote="fordham96" post=305264][quote="we are sju" post=305263]Kansas Jayhawks Stats - 2018-19
Year:

Game Statistics
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Lagerald Vick 5 36.8 19.6 3.8 2.0 1.6 0.0 2.2 .571 .714 .583
Dedric Lawson 5 31.6 17.8 10.4 3.8 1.0 0.8 2.6 .433 .750 .167
Udoka Azubuike 5 21.8 14.4 6.0 0.8 0.4 2.0 2.6 .667 .364 .000
Devon Dotson 5 30.4 10.8 3.6 2.4 1.6 0.0 1.8 .541 .818 .500
Quentin Grimes 5 27.8 9.0 2.8 3.4 0.6 0.0 1.8 .389 .615 .474
Marcus Garrett 4 23.0 6.3 2.8 2.5 1.0 0.5 0.5 .280 .667 .167
Charlie Moore 5 19.8 3.4 2.0 1.4 0.4 0.0 0.4 .273 .750 .182
K.J. Lawson 5 7.2 2.8 2.8 0.2 0.6 0.0 0.4 .667 .625 .500
David McCormack 4 5.3 1.8 2.5 0.3 0.0 0.3 0.5 .429 .250 .000
Mitch Lightfoot 5 7.0 1.6 1.4 0.4 0.0 0.8 0.2 .750 .667 .000
Totals 5 -- 86 41 17 7 4 13 .489 .638 .440
Season Statistics[/quote]

No genius that is not what I am talking about.

Furthermore you said MOST teams. I didn't ask you genius to cherry pick one or two I asked you to find most teams that limit themselves to EIGHT players with all the minutes.

I cherry picked a handful since I never said MOST teams YOU DID. The burden is on you to show me.[/quote]

SJU currently has 6 players averaging over 10 minutes a game not even 7 let alone 8 let alone 9.

Villanova has 10 genius.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/222[/quote]

I went to first 5 teams in rankings. Wasn't cherry picking, went in order.
ST John's would most likely play 8 if Keita had not gotten hurt. But AGAIN I agree Trimble probably should not be in a good team's rotation and they should have at least another big in rotation. And yes even with an 8 man rotation we would be weak at back end of rotation. I am not arguing we are deep.
My point was with people questioning why we recruited the three frosh and why they are not playing. They were recruited for back of roster and most back of rosters DON'T play.-Per ESPN TEAM STAT PAGE[/quote]

Too bad this bickering can't be taken private![/quote]

One guy is posting random box-scores and I am posting ESPN stat sheets. If you think that is bickering don't get married
 
Who cares?

Most teams will work their rotations down to 7-9 by February. We have a very solid 8-man rotation when Keita gets back. We have virtually no need for another player 1-3 after Dixon and Trimble.

Even if we had 20 capable players, Ponds and Heron would be on the floor 35+ mpg against quality opponents.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=305270]Who cares?

Most teams will work their rotations down to 7-9 by February. We have a very solid 8-man rotation when Keita gets back. We have virtually no need for another player 1-3 after Dixon and Trimble.

Even if we had 20 capable players, Ponds and Heron would be on the floor 35+ mpg against quality opponents.[/quote

Marillac posting reminds me of an erratic hard throwing pitcher. Sometimes you get a 2 hit 12 inning shutout other times the guy can't get out of the first inning. Last post was solid outing. 7 innings 9 k's 2 runs 3 walks.
Only issue is not sure Keita and Trimble qualify as solid.
 
Trimble is a decent 8th or 9th man in a 9 man rotation; he doesn't turn the ball over, tries hard to defend and can hit an open three, although he is off to a slow start in that respect this year. I know a lot of people disagree, but he played 22 minutes and 14 minutes in our two biggest wins over Duke & Nova last year. The fact that he may wind up playing closer to half of the 17.3 mpg he averaged last year despite being in better shape is a reflection of how much better we are.
 
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Earlington is the type of kid you give a scholarship to in order to land another top 50 kid because they are friends. As a Big East team You should never give a kid of his skill level a scholarship just to land him alone.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=305282]Earlington is the type of kid you give a scholarship to in order to land another top 50 kid because they are friends. As a Big East team You should never give a kid of his skill level a scholarship just to land him alone.[/quote]

Holy crap, can we give the kid some time to develop before totally writing him off and saying he's a waste of a scholarship? It was no secret that he was going to be a project and would need time to develop. By all indications he's already put in a ton of work to get from football shape to basketball shape, and he seems like a great kid.
 
[quote="Room112" post=305283][quote="Mean Gene" post=305282]Earlington is the type of kid you give a scholarship to in order to land another top 50 kid because they are friends. As a Big East team You should never give a kid of his skill level a scholarship just to land him alone.[/quote]

Holy crap, can we give the kid some time to develop before totally writing him off and saying he's a waste of a scholarship? It was no secret that he was going to be a project and would need time to develop. By all indications he's already put in a ton of work to get from football shape to basketball shape, and he seems like a great kid.[/quote]

I never said he wasn’t a great kid. I never said anything about him personally. I don’t know him, by everything I read he’s a fabulous kid. Skill wise, he’s the type of kid who should have went to Manhattan, redshirted a year there , developed his game and then transferred to St. John’s as fifth year Senior after becoming an All-Conference MAAC player or something like that. Just my opinion, albeit being based on an extremely small sample of play.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=305285][quote="Room112" post=305283][quote="Mean Gene" post=305282]Earlington is the type of kid you give a scholarship to in order to land another top 50 kid because they are friends. As a Big East team You should never give a kid of his skill level a scholarship just to land him alone.[/quote]

Holy crap, can we give the kid some time to develop before totally writing him off and saying he's a waste of a scholarship? It was no secret that he was going to be a project and would need time to develop. By all indications he's already put in a ton of work to get from football shape to basketball shape, and he seems like a great kid.[/quote]

I never said he wasn’t a great kid. I never said anything about him personally. I don’t know him, by everything I read he’s a fabulous kid. Skill wise, he’s the type of kid who should have went to Manhattan, redshirted a year there , developed his game and then transferred to St. John’s as fifth year Senior after becoming an All-Conference MAAC player or something like that. Just my opinion, albeit being based on an extremely small sample of play.[/quote]

Is it really fair to make a judgement like that based off of 2 minutes of play? We knew he would be a non factor this year.
 
I expect that sometime during his time at SJU, Earlington will become a force on the boards.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=305214][quote="fordham96" post=305162]BTW-People have short memories when they act like I am being overly critical. When Heron became available there were many on this board who were not overly excited because SJU really needed a big. Not me, I understood the concern of needing a big. But I said absolutely need to take Heron even if he doesn't come from a need position. And they are clearly better with him.

But there was plenty of criticism, and not from me, about lack of frontcourt depth and the fact that the freshmen may not be ready. And that was months ago. Well some of that is coming to fruition, even if they are 6-0.

And that is all I am saying.[/quote]

Anyone who was critical of adding Heron is an idiot. He's the highest rated recruit out of high school that we've had in almost 20 years. I'll take him playing center over just about every big man outside the top 25 of this year's class.

Besides a handful of elite players, big men are overrated. We need someone like Keita to play 15 mpg...that's it. Our best lineup will be Clark, Figuerora, Simon, Heron, and Ponds.

FWIW Brooks is exponentially more ready to contribute than Roberts. I still like Roberts long term, though.[/quote] Literally Zero % chance many on this board were against Heron coming Could there have been a couple ? Sure I guess. Were may of us complaining about front court help for a long time ? Sure. But when Heron came people were ecstatic about him specifically.

I'm too lazy to go through 24 pages but just on the first 10 of this thread I couldn't find one negative comment

https://redmen.com/forum/redmentalk/272915-sju-heron-welcome.html?start=90
 
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Give Earlington a chance to develop I am in no way saying he will be a star but I think a good former player comparison would be Sean Evans. When Evans first came he looked like he didn’t belong at this level but was built like a football player, now obviously he never became a star but he improved each year and was a solid contributor.
 
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[quote="SJU2000alum15" post=305318]Give Earlington a chance to develop I am in no way saying he will be a star but I think a good former player comparison would be Sean Evans. When Evans first came he looked like he didn’t belong at this level but was built like a football player, now obviously he never became a star but he improved each year and was a solid contributor.[/quote] Bobre would disagree with you on Evans. He thought he was Karl Malone and Magic combined :)
 
[quote="SJU2000alum15" post=305318]Give Earlington a chance to develop I am in no way saying he will be a star but I think a good former player comparison would be Sean Evans. When Evans first came he looked like he didn’t belong at this level but was built like a football player, now obviously he never became a star but he improved each year and was a solid contributor.[/quote]

Except Sean Evans was 6’8”
 
[quote="SJU2000alum15" post=305318]Give Earlington a chance to develop I am in no way saying he will be a star but I think a good former player comparison would be Sean Evans. When Evans first came he looked like he didn’t belong at this level but was built like a football player, now obviously he never became a star but he improved each year and was a solid contributor.[/quote]

No chances given here; Earlington is a class act all the way, working very hard to convert from football to basketball; but that doesn't matter at all. How dare he throw up a brick after sitting on the bench for 2 hours!! Off with his head!!!!!
 
I don't get too involved in discussions about bench players getting some run. The reality is that guys earn PT in practice, and some just are not ready to contribute. In college basketball there are guys you fill a roster with, who aren't ready to contribute, and as you build a program, you will likely recruit over them. Some of our end of bench guys will be transferring, and even based on recent transfers in, are already testing the waters because they realize PT may never come.

Coach's job is to win here, today, one game at a time. If he can work in some back bench guys for some daylight while the game still matters, that will be great. What I don't see of value is when the floor is filled with the last 5 players on the bench in the waning moments. Play is chaotic, the other team has already emptied their bench, and there's a reason it's called garbage time.
 
[quote="Knight" post=305312]I expect that sometime during his time at SJU, Earlington will become a force on the boards.[/quote]

He has already shown incredible force on the boards. Two jump shots I have seen him take have hit the backboard at like 100 mph.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=305340][quote="Knight" post=305312]I expect that sometime during his time at SJU, Earlington will become a force on the boards.[/quote]

He has already shown incredible force on the boards. Two jump shots I have seen him take have hit the backboard at like 100 mph.[/quote]

If a coach just throws a bench player into the game without a role you see Marcellus type shots. Maybe call a time out and work on a couple of set plays for him or Roberts. Using the so-called pro offense with our freshmen does them a disservice. It's like an economics professor in a freshman Economics 1 class using the lesson plan for Advanced Econometrics that he uses for his graduate students.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=305344][quote="we are sju" post=305340][quote="Knight" post=305312]I expect that sometime during his time at SJU, Earlington will become a force on the boards.[/quote]

He has already shown incredible force on the boards. Two jump shots I have seen him take have hit the backboard at like 100 mph.[/quote]

If a coach just throws a bench player into the game without a role you see Marcellus type shots. Maybe call a time out and work on a couple of set plays for him or Roberts. Using the so-called pro offense with our freshmen does them a disservice. It's like an economics professor in a freshman Economics 1 class using the lesson plan for Advanced Econometrics that he uses for his graduate students.[/quote]

Ok first I am just having some fun. But truthfully the two shots I have seen him take are probably the worst two shots I have ever seen a D1 scholarship player take. Clearly Earlington is just happy to get in the game and over eager to shoot shots he would / should not take in a normal game situation instead of an end of game blowout.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=305346][quote="Class of 72" post=305344][quote="we are sju" post=305340][quote="Knight" post=305312]I expect that sometime during his time at SJU, Earlington will become a force on the boards.[/quote]

He has already shown incredible force on the boards. Two jump shots I have seen him take have hit the backboard at like 100 mph.[/quote]

If a coach just throws a bench player into the game without a role you see Marcellus type shots. Maybe call a time out and work on a couple of set plays for him or Roberts. Using the so-called pro offense with our freshmen does them a disservice. It's like an economics professor in a freshman Economics 1 class using the lesson plan for Advanced Econometrics that he uses for his graduate students.[/quote]

Ok first I am just having some fun. But truthfully the two shots I have seen him take are probably the worst two shots I have ever seen a D1 scholarship player take. Clearly Earlington is just happy to get in the game and over eager to shoot shots he would / should not take in a normal game situation instead of an end of game blowout.[/quote]

Cedric Jackson says Hi
 
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