Playing Time - Why?

I don't know if any of the frosh can play at this level, but I don't think they anticipated the current situation. Often, it is a more productive coaching strategy to let someone play himself off the court. They need to get a shot in the next month, if they are to be ready for Big East play. If they don't, get ready for more transfers.
Ultimately, if they are not talented enough, then why were they recruited?
 
I don’t think Roberts , Williams or Earlingyon would be here , on scholarship if the Coaching staff did not see their Potential . Many Programs RedShirt players who aren’t ready yet to play and they later contribute in succeeding seasons . I don’t know all of the tactics of RedShirting or, if it counts against the School’s number of Players . It might very well be that Mullin and Staff believed it better to carry the 3 Freshman on the Official Roster rather than RedShirt them . The other thing is , as many have pointed out , is we haven’t had any blow out games, except Rutgers .
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=304330]forget the nailbiters of the last 2 games but in my opinion it's not even just giving a player a couple of minutes of playing time to make them better ( which I think it would modestly ) but it's giving the guy they are replacing a couple minutes of a breather which will most definitely make them more effective ( specifically talking about Roberts and to smaller extent Williams )[/quote]

Exactly.. you could tell our players were winded, especially against VCU. The announcers mentioned it at least twice during the game. Thats why I said to do it like a minute or so before an official time out. Give the starter an extra like rest. Just seems to make sense. Killing two birds with one stone. A freshman gets a couple of useful minutes and a 30 minute player gets to rest for a few minutes.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=304332]I don't know if any of the frosh can play at this level, but I don't think they anticipated the current situation. Often, it is a more productive coaching strategy to let someone play himself off the court. They need to get a shot in the next month, if they are to be ready for Big East play. If they don't, get ready for more transfers.
Ultimately, if they are not talented enough, then why were they recruited?[/quote]

The way I see it, is that the ooc schedule (especially this year) we are playing against teams that have guys like Roberts and Williams in their rotations. So now would be the time to use them.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=304332]I don't know if any of the frosh can play at this level, but I don't think they anticipated the current situation. Often, it is a more productive coaching strategy to let someone play himself off the court. They need to get a shot in the next month, if they are to be ready for Big East play. If they don't, get ready for more transfers.
Ultimately, if they are not talented enough, then why were they recruited?[/quote]

I don't understand these questions. Are you saying that every player that is recruited needs to play in their freshman year in every game to prove the staff recruited them for the right reasons?

Secondly what if they recruited them and thought one thing but early practice and game situations changed their opinion. That can't happen.

Lastly you guys act like your opinion matters. Coach Mullin should be playing X because I say so and it would give players Y and Z rest...Huh...

It's like when a poster says, "Why are we not recruiting player X." The answer is not hard. Because they are not nor do they have to.That's why. Why are they not playing players X, Y and Z? Because they are not and they don't have to.

They aren't good enough at this point to make any contribution and if they go on the floor for any meaningful minutes they will do more damage then good. You disagree with that fine. But you don't get paid to make those decisions. Your complaint should be on recruiting not on why 3 underwhelming freshmen are not playing.
 
Some of the posters here sound like they belong around the proverbial dysfunctional Thanksgiving table-Uncle Cranky, drunk brother-in-law, political discussions, etc.
Happy Thanksgiving.
 
I love this rotation. If I had one choice, I'd actually add a solid backup PG like Boothe over a solid backup big man.

Roberts is a VERY promising looking player for the future...not so much now.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=304338][quote="Las Vegan" post=304332]I don't know if any of the frosh can play at this level, but I don't think they anticipated the current situation. Often, it is a more productive coaching strategy to let someone play himself off the court. They need to get a shot in the next month, if they are to be ready for Big East play. If they don't, get ready for more transfers.
Ultimately, if they are not talented enough, then why were they recruited?[/quote]

I don't understand these questions. Are you saying that every player that is recruited needs to play in their freshman year in every game to prove the staff recruited them for the right reasons?

Secondly what if they recruited them and thought one thing but early practice and game situations changed their opinion. That can't happen.

Lastly you guys act like your opinion matters. Coach Mullin should be playing X because I say so and it would give players Y and Z rest...Huh...

It's like when a poster says, "Why are we not recruiting player X." The answer is not hard. Because they are not nor do they have to.That's why. Why are they not playing players X, Y and Z? Because they are not and they don't have to.

They aren't good enough at this point to make any contribution and if they go on the floor for any meaningful minutes they will do more damage then good. You disagree with that fine. But you don't get paid to make those decisions. Your complaint should be on recruiting not on why 3 underwhelming freshmen are not playing.[/quote]

The basic job for a coaching staff is to decide who and how to recruit, how to conduct practice and improve skills and how to utilize these players during the games. These are the things we discuss on these sites. As long as you keep it civil and avoid dishonesty, these are the issues fans discuss.
So, we are 5-0 thus far, but I don't think we can play conference teams with essentially a six man rotation. If Trimble and Dixon were more impressive, there would be less curiosity re the frosh. You claim they are not talented enough to play. Some of us would like to see them get a few minutes, if for no other reason than to keep the starters from fouling out. You have questioned the staff's recruiting efforts. We are questioning the player usage.
 
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Can only guess that the big guys riding the pines get their asses kicked in practice by the guys in rotation. I don't think most of us realize how much practice dictates who gets minutes in games, regardless of size.
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=304337][quote="Las Vegan" post=304332]I don't know if any of the frosh can play at this level, but I don't think they anticipated the current situation. Often, it is a more productive coaching strategy to let someone play himself off the court. They need to get a shot in the next month, if they are to be ready for Big East play. If they don't, get ready for more transfers.
Ultimately, if they are not talented enough, then why were they recruited?[/quote]

The way I see it, is that the ooc schedule (especially this year) we are playing against teams that have guys like Roberts and Williams in their rotations. So now would be the time to use them.[/quote]

I think the job is to win every game. I agree that the staff has to give even spot minutes to guys they hope will break into the rotation, but not at the expense of W's. It's clear that this hasn't been an easy 5 and 0, and hopefully some blowouts will get some daylight for guys who MAY be able to help.
 
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It has always been the case that high school recruits opted for jr col because they didn't have the grades to get accepted by the major colleges. The situation of Roberts , Williams and Mack brings up a question that is at least interesting to consider.
Is a recruit outside the top hundred who is going to have a tough time getting playing time at his college of choice better off attending a JUCO like LJ and Mack did for a year playing 35 minutes a game before going to the major ?
 
[quote="fordham96" post=304250][quote="Class of 72" post=304226][quote="fordham96" post=304206][quote="rawdognyc" post=304192][quote="fordham96" post=304189][quote="rawdognyc" post=304186]I'm sorry... But putting in Josh Roberts at about the 9:30 mark until the under 8 TO is not going to hurt the team too much, plus it gets his feet wet. Even if he gets a couple of fouls, a block and a board in those 2 minutes while Clark or whoever gets some rest. Plus you do that throughout the season and maybe increase the minutes slowly.[/quote]

It doesn't work that way. Simply playing a kid does not automatically make them better or set them up for rest of year. By that logic you can play a walk on in the first few games and then hopefully he is a big contributor late in season no?

Or the player is not good enough to play even limited minutes and they need to see more in practice before they can be trusted on the court. You are giving these freshmen too much credit.[/quote]

He's not a walk on though. Plus he has size. His been on the court before during a game and didn't look out of his element. The guy is a bit raw, but in no way comparative to a walk on. I'm saying a minute or 2 here or there. Not crunch time.[/quote]

He's not good enough the fact he's on scholarship doesn't change that, that is the ultimate point.[/quote]

How do we know that he is not good enough? You are assuming that Trimble, at 6'3, is more effective than a kid 6'9, 220 inside. One was a 3 star guard while the other was a 3 star forward? Trimble guarding an opposing 6'8 player, Kelly of Cal, who is also a freshman, looked ridiculous. Both Earlington and Roberts were ranked the same as Andre Kelly. Earlington 269, Roberts 271 and Kelly 272. Obviously the Cal coach is getting more out his freshmen on scholarship who are good enough to play while we claim ours stink. I guess we should be happy Mullin realized he had Greg Williams on the bench. Too bad it was in the last 50 seconds of the game when even Camus would have run around for 50 seconds without touching the ball.[/quote]

3 reasons we know he isn't good enough...
1) He doesn't play so the staff clearly thinks he is not good enough. They dont play him so you can give your opinion...so this is how I know, I don't need to have you see him nor does the staff either since our opinion doesn't matter

2) Neither of us are privy to practice but Mullin is and he still does not play him therefore we can infer what he thinks of him

3) Again why do YOU need to see anyone play? I don't need to see walk on X play to know that clearly by not playing him in live games Mullin doesn't think player X can play at this level now. I fail to see the point in your question, "How do WE know?" We do know by Mullin"'s actions.[/quote]

Your #3 comment is straight out of the twilight zone! You must be Carnac the Magnificent who knows all the answers before the questions. If you have never seen a player play you should shut the fck up. I know that I have watched these kids in a couple of practices and they more than hold their own. I know Panther has watched them even more. I have seen them in the Rutgers game. Josh Roberts has a nose for the ball and can block shots. Only Justin Simon has that instinct on the team in the rotation. Williams more than holds his own against Trimble and is a better all-around player imo.
I think Mullin, in absentia during much of the summer, along with Richmond preordained an 8 man rotation. The Keita injury threw a monkey wrench into that Mullin Mensa moment. Now, the staff has to figure out a role, first unintended, for one or two of the frosh. Player decisions don't come easy for this group. My gut tells me one or two of these freshmen will not be happy about their development and consider options.
That may not be an issue if we restock with better, higher ranked players. Our frosh are in the 270 range of rankings so if a top 100 level talent is interested I think this staff will not hold them back but actually may encourage them to leave. It has happened before and as you said "We do know by Mullin"'s actions", so it will likely happen again.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=304345]I love this rotation. If I had one choice, I'd actually add a solid backup PG like Boothe over a solid backup big man.

Roberts is a VERY promising looking player for the future...not so much now.[/quote]

My big fear is that we don't seem like the type of school where very promising kids are willing to sit until they get better. . .
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=304331]Also I wonder if Clark spending more time on bigger guys has any affect on shooting lately ? I have no clue. But just wondering down the road if that could be a long term thing and thus putting Roberts down low a little would help[/quote]

It's definitely tiring banging down low and then having to come back with perfect shooting form on the other end. Does the banging he's doing look like legit banging, though?
 
[quote="L J S A" post=304446][quote="mjmaherjr" post=304331]Also I wonder if Clark spending more time on bigger guys has any affect on shooting lately ? I have no clue. But just wondering down the road if that could be a long term thing and thus putting Roberts down low a little would help[/quote]

It's definitely tiring banging down low and then having to come back with perfect shooting form on the other end. Does the banging he's doing look like legit banging, though?[/quote] good question. I haven't paid much attention to it yet. I've been focusing more on Ponds then Fig ( because Panther was the first one raving about him since the summer after seeing him play ) and Heron and to a smaller extent Dixon. Nothing at all against Marvin or Simon love those guys just I've been focusing more on the newcomers. Maybe I will rewatch the game the other night over the weekend just to exclusively follow Clark to see if that is maybe whats happening
 
Typical St John's fans
When we can't win a game, the fans bitch and moan
Now, we're 5-0 and the fans still have to find something to bitch and moan about
Cut it out already!! Enjoy the success that we are having for crying out loud!!
When the young guys are ready and the opportunity presents itself, they'll get a chance to play
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=304448]Typical St John's fans
When we can't win a game, the fans bitch and moan
Now, we're 5-0 and the fans still have to find something to bitch and moan about
Cut it out already!! Enjoy the success that we are having for crying out loud!!
When the young guys are ready and the opportunity presents itself, they'll get a chance to play[/quote]

There’d be nothing to talk about if fans didn’t critique. That’s what makes us all fans and why this message board is still here decades later.

I think it’s a legitimate question with regards to expanding the bench because we’ve had problems guarding players down low and we are putting players out of position and really struggling, with other, possibly more suitable options on the bench, at least for some sparing minutes. Would fatigue set in quite as quickly if guys like Marvin and Trimble weren’t playing out of position so badly? Marvin’s shooting, which was a real asset to us, took a nose dive. I definitely believe a lot of that was due to both fatigue and playing out of position in a role he struggled to maintain, while also being able to flash outside and keep our offense fluid.

It’s a long season. Getting guys like Williams and Roberts comfortable out there and at least a small part of the rotation likely would serve us will. This isn’t just bitching and moaning. Fans allowed to have opinions, that’s sports. Even when we get Keita back, I think a more suitable replacement in the post for him is Roberts, and not Clark nor Trimble. Anybody who can’t see that, even the clashes, needs to at least look at how our center by committee with shooting guards was not effective and at least partially a reason we didn’t separate from the teams we beat. Definitely happy with 5-0. Doesn’t mean what they tried to do was the best thing for us in that scenario. Opposing coaches also thought so because they gameplanned against us, against our weakness. Luckily, we had enough firepower to overcome.
 
We need to expand the rotation and get them experience now, against these weaker teams. The days of our starters going 35+ minutes a game should be over. We need fresher legs late in the game to be able to fight off late game comebacks. Time for the coaches to do some coaching.
 
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