Pitino - Love/Hate Thread

[monte]

I say that in this new era of college basketball, and in the spirit of forgiveness, the slate be wiped clean on all prior recruiting transgression,  and every coach gets a clean start. Let's face facts, if K and Wooden did it, everyone did it to one degree or another. Some did it better, some did it worse, some did it more, some did it less. Some got caught, some didn't. Anyone, including me, who knew any high level athletes at SJU and elsewhere, knew stuff was going on in various ways( grades, gifts, etc). So let's stop with the hypocrisy, please, and if a coaching vacancy comes up, hire the best man for the job. 

 

[otis]

…..So let's stop with the hypocrisy, please, and if a coaching vacancy comes up, hire the best man for the job. 

—-
Once again The Honorable Monte is correct.

it is a bit humorous to read the sanctimonious statements by some posters in this thread regarding morality when our beloved St. John’s University itself has failed live up to the high standards preached by the Vincentian Order (see: published allegations of StJ’s senior administrator selling honorary degrees, and see allegations that a senior StJ’s administrator traded scholarship to students for private household work, and see court testimony that senior administrator’s court testimony that money raised by St. John’s fundraiser was routinely given to past St.J’s President to support his gambling, and  court testimony that StJ’s fundraiser used raised funds to purchase multiple expensive gifts for former StJ’s President who willingly accepted said expensive  gifts from his subordinate employee, and see press reports that at a time when StJ’s students were borrowing money to attend StJ’s the former StJ’s President fore gave $150K loan from StJ’s to a subordinate employee who coincidentally was a real estate business partner with the SJU President, etc., etc., oh, yes, and don’t forget that our beloved St. John’s itself was placed on multi year probation for materially violating NCAA rules.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating hiring Mr. Pitino, but let’s be fair and consistent in rendering our moral judgments.  

My guess is that Mr. Pitino will no longer be at Iona when  St. John’s hires its next new men’s basketball coach, but when a vacancy does occur the StJ’s Administrators should keep an open mind, and acknowledge that StJ’s itself has also not been perfect in its dealings.

 

 

[monte]

…..So let's stop with the hypocrisy, please, and if a coaching vacancy comes up, hire the best man for the job. 

—-
Once again The Honorable Monte is correct.

it is a bit humorous to read the sanctimonious statements by some posters in this thread regarding morality when our beloved St. John’s University itself has failed live up to the high standards preached by the Vincentian Order (see: published allegations of StJ’s senior administrator selling honorary degrees, and see allegations that a senior StJ’s administrator traded scholarship to students for private household work, and see court testimony that senior administrator’s court testimony that money raised by St. John’s fundraiser was routinely given to past St.J’s President to support his gambling, and  court testimony that StJ’s fundraiser used raised funds to purchase multiple expensive gifts for former StJ’s President who willingly accepted said expensive  gifts from his subordinate employee, and see press reports that at a time when StJ’s students were borrowing money to attend StJ’s the former StJ’s President fore gave $150K loan from StJ’s to a subordinate employee who coincidentally was a real estate business partner with the SJU President, etc., etc., oh, yes, and don’t forget that our beloved St. John’s itself was placed on multi year probation for materially violating NCAA rules.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating hiring Mr. Pitino, but let’s be fair and consistent in rendering our moral judgments.  

My guess is that Mr. Pitino will no longer be at Iona when  St. John’s hires its next new men’s basketball coach, but when a vacancy does occur the StJ’s Administrators should keep an open mind, and acknowledge that StJ’s itself has also not been perfect in its dealings.
 

Thank you for so brilliantly and succinctly expressing my exact sentiments. 

 

[beast of the east]

…..So let's stop with the hypocrisy, please, and if a coaching vacancy comes up, hire the best man for the job. 

—-
Once again The Honorable Monte is correct.

it is a bit humorous to read the sanctimonious statements by some posters in this thread regarding morality when our beloved St. John’s University itself has failed live up to the high standards preached by the Vincentian Order (see: published allegations of StJ’s senior administrator selling honorary degrees, and see allegations that a senior StJ’s administrator traded scholarship to students for private household work, and see court testimony that senior administrator’s court testimony that money raised by St. John’s fundraiser was routinely given to past St.J’s President to support his gambling, and  court testimony that StJ’s fundraiser used raised funds to purchase multiple expensive gifts for former StJ’s President who willingly accepted said expensive  gifts from his subordinate employee, and see press reports that at a time when StJ’s students were borrowing money to attend StJ’s the former StJ’s President fore gave $150K loan from StJ’s to a subordinate employee who coincidentally was a real estate business partner with the SJU President, etc., etc., oh, yes, and don’t forget that our beloved St. John’s itself was placed on multi year probation for materially violating NCAA rules.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating hiring Mr. Pitino, but let’s be fair and consistent in rendering our moral judgments.  

My guess is that Mr. Pitino will no longer be at Iona when  St. John’s hires its next new men’s basketball coach, but when a vacancy does occur the StJ’s Administrators should keep an open mind, and acknowledge that StJ’s itself has also not been perfect in its dealings.


 

Otis, respectfully, the things you know were public revelations. The things you don't know far outweigh the things you do know, and as such invalidate your position.

Father Harrington was never part of the Vincentian community at sju. He never lived with the Vincrntians on campus, and never had much to do with them. He lived off campus in a rented house, had the university rent off campus housing (as many universities do) leased an audi and even had a driver. Cecilia chang was a low level criminal who functioned out of normal university operations, and gifted Harrington from what was represented as university donors when in reality came from a Taiwanese credit card the university paid. Harrington only investigated chang when her expenditures outweighed money she raised in Taiwan and only then discovered how she financed a lavish lifestyle off a Taiwanese credit card no one ever translated. He operated with no checks and balances but once chang ratted him out on the stand and new yorker magazine investigated, the board acted swiftly to fire both harrington and his chief of staff, a former soccer player on the 96 ncaa champs. Chang committed suicide after she incriminated herself (and harrington) on the stand.

This NEVER was systemic immoral behavior by sju, just a crooked priest. Chang, and his chief of staff. There are no smoking guns and no residual staff members or board members who were part of his dirty dealings, almost all perpetrated by chang who for most of 20 plus years raised a lot of money in Tsiwan, but skimmed.

 

[otis]

Hey Beast ….

Spin, spin, spin all you want but the cold hard fact is that the individual you seek to defend held the title President of St. John’s University, he was a Catholic priest of the Congregation of the Mission.  It is hard to trivialize the person who served as St. John’s President for 23 years.

The other person who you are attempting to trivialize held the title “Dean” of the University.  Are you attempting to say that a Dean is not a senior position at the University ?   and the forgiven loan of St. John’s funds is alleged to have been made to a business partner was to a subordinate employee of the person alleged to have forgiven the loan.  In you opinion is this an accepted practice for a not for profit entity ?

Below is a link to an article which may refresh you memory
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/04/education/st-johns-president-says-he-will-retire.html[/URL]
 

 

[beast of the east]

Hey Beast ….

Spin, spin, spin all you want but the cold hard fact is that the individual you seek to defend held the title President of St. John’s University, he was a Catholic priest of the Congregation of the Mission.  It is hard to trivialize the person who served as St. John’s President for 23 years.

The other person who you are attempting to trivialize held the title “Dean” of the University.  Are you attempting to say that a Dean is not a senior position at the University ?   and the forgiven loan of St. John’s funds is alleged to have been made to a business partner was to a subordinate employee of the person alleged to have forgiven the loan.  In you opinion is this an accepted practice for a not for profit entity ?

Below is a link to an article which may refresh you memory
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/04/education/st-johns-president-says-he-will-retire.html[/URL]





 

The other person I believe was not Dean. Rob Wile.

Harrington was an outsider, and nothing can trivialize a priest taking cash gifts, expensive watches, and a caribbean vacation. What i am saying is this was not systemic immorality. The fish only stunk at the head.

Incredibly stupidly chang operated with little oversight. Not surprising for a university that historically lacks infrastructure.  When she was found out, the university filed criminal charges,  which exposed Harrington and Wiles misdeeds.

Unless you know more than that what I wrote is truth, not spin

 

 

[RedStormNC]

Think Chang had the Dean title. 

Wile was Sr VP & Chief of Staff

LinkedIn page

[URL]https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-wile-33542068[/URL]

I think I was in 1, possibly two classes w/ Wile

 

[beast of the east]

In terms of your contempt for the Vincentians, this will help feed it

http://www.cmphilippines.org.ph/main/news/36/Fr+Donald+J+Harrington+CM+To+Serve+As+Consultant+To+Vincentian+Solidarity+Office

 

[monte]

My assumption is that what we know is the tip of the iceberg. That's always my assumption with this kinds of things. Besides, The Catholic Church are the masters of covering their tracks and damage control. As for "systemic immorality", please don't get me started child sex abuse scandal, and other things 

 

[TX Redman]

There were transgressions at SJU in the past but that doesn't justify hiring Pitino.  I'd rather lose with integrity than win under a cloud of suspicion.

 

[beast of the east]

My assumption is that what we know is the tip of the iceberg. That's always my assumption with this kinds of things. Besides, The Catholic Church are the masters of covering their tracks and damage control. As for "systemic immorality", please don't get me started child sex abuse scandal, and other things 

Your hostility with unrelated church scandals is justifiable, but if you extend that to st. John's, why even root for the basketball team?

By the way , Harrington went to Regis.  Lol

 

[otis]

Harrington was an outsider,

 

——-
Rev. Father Donald Harrington served as President of St. John’s for 23 consecutive years and you want us to believe he was an “outsider” 

spin, spin, spin.

 

[monte]

My assumption is that what we know is the tip of the iceberg. That's always my assumption with this kinds of things. Besides, The Catholic Church are the masters of covering their tracks and damage control. As for "systemic immorality", please don't get me started child sex abuse scandal, and other things 

Your hostility with unrelated church scandals is justifiable, but if you extend that to st. John's, why even root for the basketball team?

By the way , Harrington went to Regis.  Lol

It's all related Beast. As for Regis, they were part of the network of jesuit schools that protected child molesting priests. Don't believe me? You can look it up. Google James Kuntz. He's just one of many. Unforgivable. Far worse then anything Rick Pitino ever did. We see things differently. Maybe because I spent so much time around priests, Nuns and Brothers as a kid, And maybe because I was so aware and innately curious, and yes, naturally skeptical. So, ya know, when the Jesuits at Xavier would preach to us about the sins of homosexuality and sex outside of marriage, but we all knew that many of them frequented the pick up bars in Chelsea, the hypocrisy of it wasn't lost on us. Not that I cared what the Priests did in their free time, but I'll be damned if I wasn't gonna engage in sex before marriage because some priest, who was engaging in sex himself, told me it was immoral.

 

[beast of the east]

Harrington was an outsider,


 

——-
Rev. Father Donald Harrington served as President of St. John’s for 23 consecutive years and you want us to believe he was an “outsider” 

spin, spin, spin. O9

Actually Otis, harrington fancied himself CEO of St. John's and according to some people I know had a very good executive sense about him. However, he was not an active sort of the Vincentian community of priests on campus and rarely interacted with them. He wasn't very visible with students either. It's fair to say the university campus CV was expanded under his leadership, as well as campuses in Rome and Paris. All I'm saying there is really zero evidence of wide ranging illegal or unethical behavior on campus.

 

[L J S A]

I should probably tread lightly here . . . but what the hell. I've long suspected Harrington's relationship with Chang went deeper than I've ever seen anyone on the board speculate on.

If correct, is that worse than what Pitino did?

 

[monte]

I should probably tread lightly here . . . but what the hell. I've long suspected Harrington's relationship with Chang went deeper than I've ever seen anyone on the board speculate on.

If correct, is that worse than what Pitino did?

You and me both LJSA. 

 

[monte]

Harrington was an outsider,



 

——-
Rev. Father Donald Harrington served as President of St. John’s for 23 consecutive years and you want us to believe he was an “outsider” 

spin, spin, spin. O9

Actually Otis, harrington fancied himself CEO of St. John's and according to some people I know had a very good executive sense about him. However, he was not an active sort of the Vincentian community of priests on campus and rarely interacted with them. He wasn't very visible with students either. It's fair to say the university campus CV was expanded under his leadership, as well as campuses in Rome and Paris. All I'm saying there is really zero evidence of wide ranging illegal or unethical behavior on campus.

Didn't know him well, took a few of his lectures, but always liked Fr. Cahill and enjoyed his lectures very much. 

 

[beast of the east]

I should probably tread lightly here . . . but what the hell. I've long suspected Harrington's relationship with Chang went deeper than I've ever seen anyone on the board speculate on.

If correct, is that worse than what Pitino did?

She claimed on the stand to have slept with Cahill. I dont recall her mentioning that about Harrington but may have.

 

[monte]

I should probably tread lightly here . . . but what the hell. I've long suspected Harrington's relationship with Chang went deeper than I've ever seen anyone on the board speculate on.

If correct, is that worse than what Pitino did?

She claimed on the stand to have slept with Cahill. I dont recall her mentioning that about Harrington but may have.

In that case, I like Cahill even more lol. But he was dead by the time the accusations were made I believe.  Not saying it didn't happen, but with her as the only witness, and not exactly a credible one, and him not here to defend himself, one has to wonder about the validity of her accusation 

 

[beast of the east]

I should probably tread lightly here . . . but what the hell. I've long suspected Harrington's relationship with Chang went deeper than I've ever seen anyone on the board speculate on.

If correct, is that worse than what Pitino did?

She claimed on the stand to have slept with Cahill. I dont recall her mentioning that about Harrington but may have.

In that case, I like Cahill even more lol. But he was dead by the time the accusations were made I believe.  Not saying it didn't happen, but with her as the only witness, and not exactly a credible one, and him not here to defend himself, one has to wonder about the validity of her accusation 

She believed her best defense was to incriminate everyone who benefitted from her wrongdoings. Of course no way to prove but she ccx was accurate about the envelopes of cash, custom tailored suits, patek Philippe watches, and caribbean trip. To my knowledge, her only role at sju was fundraising. I think she may have demanded a title of Dean to help her raise money abroad.