Orlando Sanchez

[crgreen]

In the middle of the Orlando wait I was watching an old time sports report and there was Marty Glickman's voice. For those of you who don't know his pre-broadcasting history, he was a world class sprinter of Jewish descent and on the 1936 US team for the Berlin Olympics (I think as part of the 4 X !00 relay team). When the Fuehrer asked that the Jew be excluded from the team, Avery Brundage, head of the US Olympic Committee agreed. This memory of pond scum leaders destroying sport for their own comfort does not get surfaced very often but the NCAA in dealing with Orlando Sanchez makes me think of 1936 and old Excess Sewage himself.

And yet the great Sam Balter (very devoutly jewish) won gold that Olympics as a member of the US Basketball team -tho, as he did with Jesse Owens, Hitler refused to be present for Sam's (and the teams) gold medal ceremony. Sam averaged 8.4 pts a game for the gold medal winners. The UCLA Hall of Fame player went on to a 50 year Hall of Fame broadcasting career after his retirement from Hoops -

 

[rawdognyc]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

 

[logen]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

 

[logen]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

One last point, I was told by a pretty good source that in his opinion (and while the person has experience dealing with the NCAA opinion was all it was, so take it for what it's worth), the NCAA was not going to rule on Sanchez because his understanding was that the paperwork was solid. Rather he thought the NCAA would "wait it out" until Sanchez moved on. I am not a lawyer but it seems to make sense that a lawsuit would be that much tougher under those circumstances. Finally, my understanding is that the NCAA never ruled Sanchez ineligible, but rather never ruled him eligible, there is a difference. Again, I could be wrong, I have not seen any documentation, but the whole thing makes a little more sense taken from that angle.

 

[redmannorth]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

Logen your problem is you deal in facts when it is so much more fun for this board to deal with hypothesis and wild theories.

 

[monte]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

Logen your problem is you deal in facts when it is so much more fun for this board to deal with hypothesis and wild theories.

North I've got no problem with Lavin taking a gamble on this kid, in fact I'm glad he did. But there are very few "facts" surrounding the Sanchez saga that the large majority of us here are privy to. Obviously the administration and the NCAA know the facts, that leaves us to hypothesize and speculate.

 

[logen]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

Logen your problem is you deal in facts when it is so much more fun for this board to deal with hypothesis and wild theories.

North I've got no problem with Lavin taking a gamble on this kid, in fact I'm glad he did. But there are very few "facts" surrounding the Sanchez saga that the large majority of us here are privy to. Obviously the administration and the NCAA know the facts, that leaves us to hypothesize and speculate.

"But there are very few "facts" surrounding the Sanchez saga that the large majority of us here are privy to"; which is as it should be IMO. It is between the school, NCAA, and Sanchez. "Fact" is a very loose term these days anyway; I mean ND's football player had a "girlfriend" of two years that he never met? That defies the definition even the most ardent Internet users definition of friend; I mean there is no evidence of identity fraud on the Internet, right. Nevertheless, the situation is bandied about and analyzed as if it made perfect sense. The problem is common sense and the ability to think for one's self is going the way of the dinosaur. I mean, I don't need a court of law to tell me whether Barry Bonds took steroids; I just need to look at a before and after shot of his head; my common sense tells me the rest. Yet, I saw several articles where sportswriters argued he should be voted in because he was not convicted. Now vote him in or not as you see fit, but don't tell me you really believe he didn't use steroids because he was acquited. Then I think you have the less common sense than a rock.

 

[qcredman]

The spasmodic, inconsistent and unpredictable judgments of the NCAA inevitably engender confusion, frustration and animosity.


Our forum's 's reaction to that Byzantine institution is no different than that found on any other college message board.

 

[jsk68/73]

I would expect some formal announcement/comment forthcoming regarding Orlando's status. Otherwise why would he still practice and come to the games as a "player in waiting"? I believe (other than his facebook or twitter comment) that Coach/staff and the school are not permitted to say anything about his status. I also believe that is a groundrule laid down prior to any interviews or game comments from Lavin and anyone else being interviewed.
Maybe the new academic session starting shortly will provide the final concusion to the matter once and for all.

 

[beast of the east]

So the NCAA subjectively preserves the so called integrity of their institution, while a Caribbean kid opts for overseas, loses his shot at an education, and instead banks on a hit and miss pro career. It's so disgusting how they could give a rat's ass about education, graduation rates, and the kids that fill arenas chasing the carrot of professional money. They hide behind the guise of educators, but are every bit as much money hustlers as the guys on fifth avenue doing card tricks, and care about as much as the kids who play their game.

 

[Class of 72]

So no one finds it just a wee bit unusual that we have not heard a word from St. John's on this players' eligibility issue?
The urban legend will say he was the best player in practices, a sure fire NBA draft pick (even though he does not appear on any scouts reports), yada, yada.
Since Lavin and cohorts knew since the Fall there was a slim to no chance of Sanchez qualifying and few big man prospects in 2013, this odd gamble basically made us very small and with no depth up front. If we do not sign Lawrence, this was an insurance move for a staff that may have gone a little soft on the recruiting trail this year.

The whole administration should be relieved of their duties.

I vote for a firing squad.

You guys are rough!
Moose indicated his way to get even was to start boycotting games because of the low quality of play and the high cost of attending those MSG games........then again...maybe he was being sarcastic. I was being critical.

Boycotting? Wrong word choice.
Its a royal pain the ass to make a game from Stamford CT after a day of work. So weekday games I'm not gonna bend over backwards trying to get to MSG. Just not worth it.

Just kidding about boycotting Moose!! That is a trip to MSG...and then home. I sometimes stay in Manhattan after games at my Godson's pad so as to avoid the commute, especially after 4 pints! LOL!

 

[Section3]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

One last point, I was told by a pretty good source that in his opinion (and while the person has experience dealing with the NCAA opinion was all it was, so take it for what it's worth), the NCAA was not going to rule on Sanchez because his understanding was that the paperwork was solid. Rather he thought the NCAA would "wait it out" until Sanchez moved on. I am not a lawyer but it seems to make sense that a lawsuit would be that much tougher under those circumstances. Finally, my understanding is that the NCAA never ruled Sanchez ineligible, but rather never ruled him eligible, there is a difference. Again, I could be wrong, I have not seen any documentation, but the whole thing makes a little more sense taken from that angle.

If true, the NCAA is really a bunch sbags...hope the big conferences do lead an exodus

 

[monte]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

One last point, I was told by a pretty good source that in his opinion (and while the person has experience dealing with the NCAA opinion was all it was, so take it for what it's worth), the NCAA was not going to rule on Sanchez because his understanding was that the paperwork was solid. Rather he thought the NCAA would "wait it out" until Sanchez moved on. I am not a lawyer but it seems to make sense that a lawsuit would be that much tougher under those circumstances. Finally, my understanding is that the NCAA never ruled Sanchez ineligible, but rather never ruled him eligible, there is a difference. Again, I could be wrong, I have not seen any documentation, but the whole thing makes a little more sense taken from that angle.

When you say "the paperwork was solid", I assume you mean Orlando's, not the NCAA's. I'm not a lawyer but if that's the case it would seem to me that Orlando would still have pretty good grounds for a law suit. But the bigger question is, if Orlando's paperwork was solid why would the NCAA not rule him eligible? After all it is in thier be$t interest to have Orlando play college ball. I dislike the NCAA about as much as everyone else, but I'm just not buying that this is some sort of conspiracy against Orlando, St. John's, kids from DR, etc.

 

[dee]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

One last point, I was told by a pretty good source that in his opinion (and while the person has experience dealing with the NCAA opinion was all it was, so take it for what it's worth), the NCAA was not going to rule on Sanchez because his understanding was that the paperwork was solid. Rather he thought the NCAA would "wait it out" until Sanchez moved on. I am not a lawyer but it seems to make sense that a lawsuit would be that much tougher under those circumstances. Finally, my understanding is that the NCAA never ruled Sanchez ineligible, but rather never ruled him eligible, there is a difference. Again, I could be wrong, I have not seen any documentation, but the whole thing makes a little more sense taken from that angle.

When you say "the paperwork was solid", I assume you mean Orlando's, not the NCAA's. I'm not a lawyer but if that's the case it would seem to me that Orlando would still have pretty good grounds for a law suit. But the bigger question is, if Orlando's paperwork was solid why would the NCAA not rule him eligible? After all it is in thier be$t interest to have Orlando play college ball. I dislike the NCAA about as much as everyone else, but I'm just not buying that this is some sort of conspiracy against Orlando, St. John's, kids from DR, etc.

Wake up they dont like st johns and will do what they can to keep us down. Do you really think Duke or No Carolina would be having this problem with Sanchez. Tell Sanchez to sign up for Kansas and they will qualify him in about a new york minute.

 

[monte]

i don't understand the age thing. Brandon weeden played college football until he was Like 62 years old, give or take a few years. what's age got to do, got to do with it?

The age was the trigger to investigate, not the cause of the ineligibility. Lavin gambled, I'm sure he knew it was gambling, but for all the whiners and conspiracy seekers, it was a gamble worth taking. Sanchez should be playing IMO, but my understanding is that the NCAA is just not going to accept the documentation from the DR for the "lost years." Building a program from scratch is tough for any new coach under any circumstances, but that much tougher when replacing a whole roster and confronted with absolutely no continuity in recruiting from the old regime. Lavin didn't have to convince Norm's recruits to stay with SJU, he had to find new ones. He brought in players that could instantly be competitive and took gambles to do it because he didn't have the luxury of 3-4 years of building relationships with HS (or younger) players. He has not brought in thugs, and just take a look at Sanchez' school work for the semester he was here; he was not a basketball mercenary. It has been rocky at times, no doubt, but what Lavin has done should be respected, not criticized.

One last point, I was told by a pretty good source that in his opinion (and while the person has experience dealing with the NCAA opinion was all it was, so take it for what it's worth), the NCAA was not going to rule on Sanchez because his understanding was that the paperwork was solid. Rather he thought the NCAA would "wait it out" until Sanchez moved on. I am not a lawyer but it seems to make sense that a lawsuit would be that much tougher under those circumstances. Finally, my understanding is that the NCAA never ruled Sanchez ineligible, but rather never ruled him eligible, there is a difference. Again, I could be wrong, I have not seen any documentation, but the whole thing makes a little more sense taken from that angle.

When you say "the paperwork was solid", I assume you mean Orlando's, not the NCAA's. I'm not a lawyer but if that's the case it would seem to me that Orlando would still have pretty good grounds for a law suit. But the bigger question is, if Orlando's paperwork was solid why would the NCAA not rule him eligible? After all it is in thier be$t interest to have Orlando play college ball. I dislike the NCAA about as much as everyone else, but I'm just not buying that this is some sort of conspiracy against Orlando, St. John's, kids from DR, etc.

Wake up they dont like st johns and will do what they can to keep us down. Do you really think Duke or No Carolina would be having this problem with Sanchez. Tell Sanchez to sign up for Kansas and they will qualify him in about a new york minute.

I'm wide awake, thanks. But since your so adamant about your position on this, maybe you can tell me what possible motive the NCAA could have for wanting to keep us down? We're the biggest school in the biggest media market probably in the world. We're about to be the anchor team in a new conference. So again I ask you, why the NCAA would be looking to stick it to us?

 

[tim23red]

First off - the best to Orlando!

Why would the NCAA favor say a Duke or a Kansas over a St. John's

1. Our fan base is poor - The above mentioned schools will have thousands of posts saying how this is unfair to their player. We barely get 200.
2. The ACC and other power conferences have powerful allies in the Media. We may be the Media capital but if we get a mention three times a week in the tabloids its a lot. Bilas, Vitale, et al don't mention St. John's - a 5 -22 Duke would garnish more attention them a top 25 St. John's
3. Someone mentioned Brandon Weedon...I'll mention Cam Newton - and all the players we know have no right playing for taking cash, or special priviledges - They never seem to happen to the top teams - or they somehow get cleared up quickly (again Cam Newton)- check out UCLA this year.
4. And since I am posting - the NCAA favors all those teams in the tournaments - home state games for all the power schools - St. John's will always travel - the pod system was made for this.

Not looking to argue - just venting what I have seen in 40 years of watching...

 

[simplyred]

I agree that certain schools get preferential treatment. I just don't buy that the NCAA specifically has it out for us. I just think that we are not one of those schools that get the preferred treatment. They probably put our mail to the side, unopened, until they finish with more important matters.

 

[monte]

I agree that certain schools get preferential treatment. I just don't buy that the NCAA specifically has it out for us. I just think that we are not one of those schools that get the preferred treatment. They probably put our mail to the side, unopened, until they finish with more important matters.

Pretty much my point. We all know that certain schools get priority. Nothing any of us can do about that. I just think that its not in the best interest of the NCAA to not rule favorable on this kid if he's got enough of his ducks in a row.

 

[monte]

First off - the best to Orlando!

Why would the NCAA favor say a Duke or a Kansas over a St. John's

1. Our fan base is poor - The above mentioned schools will have thousands of posts saying how this is unfair to their player. We barely get 200.
2. The ACC and other power conferences have powerful allies in the Media. We may be the Media capital but if we get a mention three times a week in the tabloids its a lot. Bilas, Vitale, et al don't mention St. John's - a 5 -22 Duke would garnish more attention them a top 25 St. John's
3. Someone mentioned Brandon Weedon...I'll mention Cam Newton - and all the players we know have no right playing for taking cash, or special priviledges - They never seem to happen to the top teams - or they somehow get cleared up quickly (again Cam Newton)- check out UCLA this year.
4. And since I am posting - the NCAA favors all those teams in the tournaments - home state games for all the power schools - St. John's will always travel - the pod system was made for this.

Not looking to argue - just venting what I have seen in 40 years of watching...

Never said that the top schools don't get preferential treatment, only said that I don't see why it would be in the best interest of the NCAA to be sticking it to Orlando and S. John's. Big difference.

 

[monte]

In doing a little digging on the internet, it seems like Orlando played ball in Spain in at least parts of 2008 and 2009. Then it looks like he returned to DR and graduated HS in 2010 at 22 years of age, after which he enrolled at Monroe. Cannot find one single report of him as a HS player. No stats, no articles, no nothing. Maybe he didn't play HS ball? He'll be 25 years old in May. Not a lot about him on the internet so putting pieces together. The whole thing is very odd if you ask me.