Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

[Wolfie]

Gawd, I don't know where to begin except to laud you right wingers as having aced the delusional curriculum at St. John's Of The Swastika. Great job!
#1 Obama deported more illegals than any of the past 4 previous Presidents COMBINED.
#2 FUN--where'd you grow up? You seem to lack ANY class. Saying 'a few years ago (Obama) as a lackey would have been fetching his (Clinton's) post-rape coffee is insulting, vaguely racist, and totally clueless of the sexual assaults proudly admitted by Mr. Buffoon--YOUR president.
#3 Obama's a communist??!!!?? Not in any text book. You may need to be retested on remedial economic history. Your rejoinder to attempting to modify the current near record inequality gap in the USA is to label anyone who advocates 'leveling the playing field' in skills and job training is to lower taxes for the wealthy and take away health care for 23 million Americans.
#4 Your characterization of Obama's foreign policy is laughable. The USA was hated when he took office. Obama's hesitancy to commit more US troops to Iraq was sensible on two fronts: a) the American people was against recommitting large troop levels in Iraq because the invasion was and remains the worst military operation in modern US History. Again, you may have to reread Sun Tzu's The Art of War'.
$5 Nobody has been able to contain NK--not just Obama. Re Iran, that Agreement is the best that could've been achieved. IF Trump rescinds it and/or threatens Iran--the USA will be further embroiled in the bloody Middle East for the next Century.
#6 You are being proved laughably wrong daily on your mocking global warming or climate change or however you denigrate it. The problem is, it'll be too late IF Trump succeeds in his damaging anti-climate agenda. (But he won't.)
#7 The US economy recovered from the worst downturn in the USA since the Great Depression. Obama made mistakes by not attacking Republican opposition to infrastructure spending, jobs training programs, et al, after the 2010 elections, but he gets credit for agreeing with Bush on TARP, launching Obamacare and supporting Bernanke in QE--the primary tool in our economic recovery. The only one available since Republicans blocked every fiscal policy program Obama sponsored.
Things are getting and will continue to worsen under this incompetent individual we are currently cursed with in the White House.
I suggest you retake political history also.

 

[bamafan]

Prediction: Fun's response will be over 10,000 words long. hmy:

 

[monte]

Do you guys realize what a bunch of whiny ass sore losers you sound like? Now you know how we felt for the last 8 years under "not our president". Except we sucked it up and waited our turn, instead of crying. If this country survived the last 8 years, we'll surely survive the next 8.

 

[fun]

FUN--where'd you grow up? You seem to lack ANY class. Saying 'a few years ago (Obama) as a lackey would have been fetching his (Clinton's) post-rape coffee is insulting, vaguely racist, and totally clueless

I agree, it's absolutely racist. That's why Bill Clinton should never have said it to Ted Kennedy: "A few years ago, this guy (Obama) would be getting us coffee," Bill Clinton said. Surely you knew that, it was in all the papers. Unless you're, you know, totally clueless.

I've taken the liberty of hosing the rest of your post. I don't dialogue with people who think it's clever to call other people Nazis. I find such rhetoric primitive and antisemitic and not even vaguely.

 

[ErickTheRed]

Fun is absolutely correct, of course you never heard that story from the mainstream media during the campaign

 

[beast of the east]

Question: Are communists, or those espousing sharing the wealth, allowed to become fabulously wealthy in process of espousing those views, and in process, sharing little of their own new found wealth?

If that's the litmus test, few far left liberals are communist. Then again, neither are most communist world leaders

 

[Class of 72]

Do you guys realize what a bunch of whiny ass sore losers you sound like? Now you know how we felt for the last 8 years under "not our president". Except we sucked it up and waited our turn, instead of crying. If this country survived the last 8 years, we'll surely survive the next 8.

I want every president to succeed regardless of party affiliation if it benefits the 90% of the population that are not multimillionaires. So far very few presidents have succeeded. With all due respect this president has yet to show any real interest in other than the 10% he identifies with and represents. His tax plan would do away with the deduction of property taxes and most State and local deductions. The ripple effect would punish most middle class homeowners.
That said, the amount of horse shit piling up in this White House would make it very unlikely that this president will have a second term. In other words "Sarà un miracolo se questo idiota dura quattro anni e non 8 anni".

 

[Knight]

When the tax system is used to direct social change or encourage certain behaviors, it becomes extremely difficult to change or address inequities that exist in the current code. Interest deductions, state income taxes, property taxes, charitable deductions and various credits in place to encourage certain investments make backing away from those items problematic.
If state income tax and property taxes are no longer deductible, highly taxed states will suffer much than other states.

 

[mjmaherjr]

When the tax system is used to direct social change or encourage certain behaviors, it becomes extremely difficult to change or address inequities that exist in the current code. Interest deductions, state income taxes, property taxes, charitable deductions and various credits in place to encourage certain investments make backing away from those items problematic.
If state income tax and property taxes are no longer deductible, highly taxed states will suffer much than other states.

At this point I think you need to get rid of all tax deductions themselves get rid of the AMT tax and have a sort of graduated flat tax system with higher income earners paying higher % than lower albeit nowhere near the current tax rates. Pretty much the only thing I'm for keeping deductions are maybe primary home and the tax free status on municipal bonds.

It's the only way to fix this mess and it needs to be revenue neutral

 

[Knight]

When the tax system is used to direct social change or encourage certain behaviors, it becomes extremely difficult to change or address inequities that exist in the current code. Interest deductions, state income taxes, property taxes, charitable deductions and various credits in place to encourage certain investments make backing away from those items problematic.
If state income tax and property taxes are no longer deductible, highly taxed states will suffer much than other states.

At this point I think you need to get rid of all tax deductions themselves get rid of the AMT tax and have a sort of graduated flat tax system with higher income earners paying higher % than lower albeit nowhere near the current tax rates. Pretty much the only thing I'm for keeping deductions are maybe primary home and the tax free status on municipal bonds.

It's the only way to fix this mess and it needs to be revenue neutral

Mike, how do you think that would impact on charitable deduction?

 

[mjmaherjr]

When the tax system is used to direct social change or encourage certain behaviors, it becomes extremely difficult to change or address inequities that exist in the current code. Interest deductions, state income taxes, property taxes, charitable deductions and various credits in place to encourage certain investments make backing away from those items problematic.
If state income tax and property taxes are no longer deductible, highly taxed states will suffer much than other states.

At this point I think you need to get rid of all tax deductions themselves get rid of the AMT tax and have a sort of graduated flat tax system with higher income earners paying higher % than lower albeit nowhere near the current tax rates. Pretty much the only thing I'm for keeping deductions are maybe primary home and the tax free status on municipal bonds.

It's the only way to fix this mess and it needs to be revenue neutral

Mike, how do you think that would impact on charitable deduction?

it would hurt it. If you want to make some sort of allowance for that too than I'm fine with that to a certain extent but for people like me I dont even think I get a tax break on it anymore because of the AMT tax. I'm not completely sure because I literally just give it to my accountant and let him figure it out

The biggest thing is you have a way too complicated tax code. Things like I think it was 72 said with certain deductions if you eliminate them how that affects people in high tax states will also be offset to an extent if you eliminate the AMT tax because the AMT tax predominately is an even bigger problem in the northeast states and California.

 

[beast of the east]

Kudos to Trump for pulling back on Obama's deal with Cuba. I know and worked with Cubans whose families got out at the time of the revolution and after who were appalled by Obama's deal without getting anything back in return in terms of human rights violations. Hopefully when raoul castro is gone a free government will ensue.

 

[Redmenguy]

Do you guys realize what a bunch of whiny ass sore losers you sound like? Now you know how we felt for the last 8 years under "not our president". Except we sucked it up and waited our turn, instead of crying. If this country survived the last 8 years, we'll surely survive the next 8.

I want every president to succeed regardless of party affiliation if it benefits the 90% of the population that are not multimillionaires. So far very few presidents have succeeded. With all due respect this president has yet to show any real interest in other than the 10% he identifies with and represents. His tax plan would do away with the deduction of property taxes and most State and local deductions. The ripple effect would punish most middle class homeowners.
That said, the amount of horse shit piling up in this White House would make it very unlikely that this president will have a second term. In other words "Sarà un miracolo se questo idiota dura quattro anni e non 8 anni".

You conveniently left off that Trump's plan would replace these deductions with an overall lower tax rate, doubling of the standard deduction, elimination of the AMT tax, elimination of the marriage tax penalty and in the process, exempt many more taxpayers from having a federal income tax obligation.

 

[monte]

Do you guys realize what a bunch of whiny ass sore losers you sound like? Now you know how we felt for the last 8 years under "not our president". Except we sucked it up and waited our turn, instead of crying. If this country survived the last 8 years, we'll surely survive the next 8.

I want every president to succeed regardless of party affiliation if it benefits the 90% of the population that are not multimillionaires. So far very few presidents have succeeded. With all due respect this president has yet to show any real interest in other than the 10% he identifies with and represents. His tax plan would do away with the deduction of property taxes and most State and local deductions. The ripple effect would punish most middle class homeowners.
That said, the amount of horse shit piling up in this White House would make it very unlikely that this president will have a second term. In other words "Sarà un miracolo se questo idiota dura quattro anni e non 8 anni".

Just to be clear, I wanted Obama to succeed in the same way that I want Trump and every elected official to succeed. I did not vote for him, but I supported him as soon as he was elected. Not withstanding my OP, while I grew to dislike his politics immensely (guess that makes me racist) I never considered him to be "not my president". In the same way that I don't consider Diblasio to be "not my mayor", in spite of the fact that I think he's a horrible mayor. However there is a large segment of the left who want Trump to fail, even if it is to the detriment of our country. Those people are un-American fools IMO, and can go F themselves.

 

[beast of the east]

Do you guys realize what a bunch of whiny ass sore losers you sound like? Now you know how we felt for the last 8 years under "not our president". Except we sucked it up and waited our turn, instead of crying. If this country survived the last 8 years, we'll surely survive the next 8.

I want every president to succeed regardless of party affiliation if it benefits the 90% of the population that are not multimillionaires. So far very few presidents have succeeded. With all due respect this president has yet to show any real interest in other than the 10% he identifies with and represents. His tax plan would do away with the deduction of property taxes and most State and local deductions. The ripple effect would punish most middle class homeowners.
That said, the amount of horse shit piling up in this White House would make it very unlikely that this president will have a second term. In other words "Sarà un miracolo se questo idiota dura quattro anni e non 8 anni".

Just to be clear, I wanted Obama to succeed in the same way that I want Trump and every elected official to succeed. I did not vote for him, but I supported him as soon as he was elected. Not withstanding my OP, while I grew to dislike his politics immensely (guess that makes me racist) I never considered him to be "not my president". In the same way that I don't consider Diblasio to be "not my mayor", in spite of the fact that I think he's a horrible mayor. However there is a large segment of the left who want Trump to fail, even if it is to the detriment of our country. Those people are un-American fools IMO, and can go F themselves.

Its because you aren't part of the resistance

 

[redmannorth]

Do you guys realize what a bunch of whiny ass sore losers you sound like? Now you know how we felt for the last 8 years under "not our president". Except we sucked it up and waited our turn, instead of crying. If this country survived the last 8 years, we'll surely survive the next 8.

I want every president to succeed regardless of party affiliation if it benefits the 90% of the population that are not multimillionaires. So far very few presidents have succeeded. With all due respect this president has yet to show any real interest in other than the 10% he identifies with and represents. His tax plan would do away with the deduction of property taxes and most State and local deductions. The ripple effect would punish most middle class homeowners.
That said, the amount of horse shit piling up in this White House would make it very unlikely that this president will have a second term. In other words "Sarà un miracolo se questo idiota dura quattro anni e non 8 anni".

Just to be clear, I wanted Obama to succeed in the same way that I want Trump and every elected official to succeed. I did not vote for him, but I supported him as soon as he was elected. Not withstanding my OP, while I grew to dislike his politics immensely (guess that makes me racist) I never considered him to be "not my president". In the same way that I don't consider Diblasio to be "not my mayor", in spite of the fact that I think he's a horrible mayor. However there is a large segment of the left who want Trump to fail, even if it is to the detriment of our country. Those people are un-American fools IMO, and can go F themselves.

I guess that is what those of us who live outside the US find shocking, that concurrent with the inauguration you had such a large segment of the population who want this president to fail. He is not being given a chance and their behaviour will only push him further to the right. Why attempt to please a large portion of your constituents when they hate you and will not attempt to let you govern from the get go ?
Is President Trump perfect , far from it but he deserves a chance IMHO.
Again we had great government in Canada for 10 years and then voted in a high school drama teacher whose major platform is the légalisation of marijuana. We went from large surpluses to the largest debt ever but I still want him to succeed as it is for the good of the country.
I don't get the anger of the left.

 

[Class of 72]

Do you guys realize what a bunch of whiny ass sore losers you sound like? Now you know how we felt for the last 8 years under "not our president". Except we sucked it up and waited our turn, instead of crying. If this country survived the last 8 years, we'll surely survive the next 8.

I want every president to succeed regardless of party affiliation if it benefits the 90% of the population that are not multimillionaires. So far very few presidents have succeeded. With all due respect this president has yet to show any real interest in other than the 10% he identifies with and represents. His tax plan would do away with the deduction of property taxes and most State and local deductions. The ripple effect would punish most middle class homeowners.
That said, the amount of horse shit piling up in this White House would make it very unlikely that this president will have a second term. In other words "Sarà un miracolo se questo idiota dura quattro anni e non 8 anni".

You conveniently left off that Trump's plan would replace these deductions with an overall lower tax rate, doubling of the standard deduction, elimination of the AMT tax, elimination of the marriage tax penalty and in the process, exempt many more taxpayers from having a federal income tax obligation.

As with any tax plan, beauty is in the eye of the accountant. I am all for a simplified tax plan but if it does little for the majority of taxpayers in the middle of the curve then it is just another mechanism for screwing the majority of people while mostly benefiting the very poor and the very rich with the emphasis on the "very rich".
I am sure that the current plan will be modified considerably before it is passed.
Hopefully this administration will look at other sources to fund their agenda without screwing those on medicare, those living on socials security or fixed incomes and the middle class.
Now, if they could just simplify my cable bills I would be a happy man. One surcharge on top of another. Everyone and their mother takes a piece. Maybe Trump can have his Russian hacker friends hack the cable giants so that every channel they charge extra for is free and never shows up on our cable bills.

 

[Class of 72]

Question: Are communists, or those espousing sharing the wealth, allowed to become fabulously wealthy in process of espousing those views, and in process, sharing little of their own new found wealth?

If that's the litmus test, few far left liberals are communist. Then again, neither are most communist world leaders

I don't care if they are communists, socialists, Democrats, Republicans or fascist, all I want is that damn swamp in D.C. drained. So far Trump has not done that and we are in a political quagmire. I am pretty sure my fascist candidate Bernie Sanders would have started draining the swamp by now. Heck, even Mussolini was more of a change maker except for aligning with Nazi Germany.
One of the good things Mussolini did was drain the swamps. Maybe Trump should shave his head.

[/quote]

 

[Wolfie]

:lol: Yes maybe he should. Here's the skinny on Trump: he's a pathological liar. He lied to be president. Yes 'they' all do, but not like him. He campaigned on a 'populist' platform of draining the swamp and throwing out illegal drug dealers & rapists / keeping out Muslim migrants/refugees, making Obamacare better and cheaper for 'everybody', at one point, raising taxes for households making >$250K (later dropped), bringing back Mfg jobs, retaining coal mining jobs, vetoing NAFTA, rescinding Transpacific Treaty (did that), clamping down on China, launching a $1trn infrastructure policy, implementing tax 'reform' cutting corporate and high bracket rates, and making life better for the 'forgotten' Americans.
Trump as not 'drained the swamp', he's flooded it.
Not only has nothing major been done, but the steps he has attempted (HC, tax 'reform', aid to families, children, the elderly) have either been punitive to his 'base' (and most middle class and working class citizens), or have been ill-prepared (a 1/2 of a -page tax 'plan' that benefited the mega wealthy).
His cabinet and senior appointments are primarily multi-millionaires and/or integral to the Washington DC Lobby network.
Trump is weakening our ties with NATO and our major European Allies--unprecedented moves that benefit Putin--that thug nd murderer.
His travel ban was hastily drawn, is likely unconstitutional, but also is full of conflicts in the nations it protected (Saudi Arabia!!! Egypt!).
Each day he is president is one more day he violates the Emoluments Clause in the Constitution.
Trump is a disaster for the country--yes, far worse than ANYONE who preceded him.
The man is a disgrace and an embarrassment to the country.
This is not sour grapes. This is the truth.

 

[Knight]

:lol: Yes maybe he should. Here's the skinny on Trump: he's a pathological liar. He lied to be president. Yes 'they' all do, but not like him. He campaigned on a 'populist' platform of draining the swamp and throwing out illegal drug dealers & rapists / keeping out Muslim migrants/refugees, making Obamacare better and cheaper for 'everybody', at one point, raising taxes for households making >$250K (later dropped), bringing back Mfg jobs, retaining coal mining jobs, vetoing NAFTA, rescinding Transpacific Treaty (did that), clamping down on China, launching a $1trn infrastructure policy, implementing tax 'reform' cutting corporate and high bracket rates, and making life better for the 'forgotten' Americans.
Not only has nothing major been done, but the steps he has attempted (HC, tax 'reform', aid to families, children, the elderly) have either been punitive to his 'base' (and most middle class and working class citizens), but have been ill-prepared (a 1/2 of a -page tax 'plan' that benefited the mega wealthy).
His cabinet and senior appointments are primarily multi-millionaires and/or integral to the Washington DC Lobby network.
His travel ban was hastily drawn, is likely unconstitutional, but also is full of conflicts in the nations it protected (Saudi Arabia!!! Egypt!).
Each day he is president is one more day he violates the Emoluments Clause in the Constitution.
Trump is a disaster for the country--yes, far worse than ANYONE who preceded him.
A disgrace.

Not a Trump fan, but his shortcomings don't compare to his immediate predecessor.