Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

[redfazed]

Listen to him during campaign, he repeatedly stated he would keep parts of plan, 26 years old and pre existing conditions.

I don't remember that. I only remember him chanting "repeal and replace", but I will take your word for it.

That said, it has been established that insurance companies cannot survive if they are required to accept pre-existing conditions, unless there is a mitigating factor such as requiring everyone to purchase health insurance (essentially Obamacare). My guess is that, after destroying Obamacare, he ends up keeping most of the "disaster". He will use the word "repeal" to pacify his supporter.

On the campaign trail, Trump did say on more than one occasion that he would keep coverage people with preexisting conditions. It is not the insurance companies who are going to pay for it, it is the taxpayer. And that cost is going to be offset by cost savings in Medicare, which is bloated out of control. Paul Ryan already has a plan along these lines ready to go, the Republicans have been working on this for the past few years.

 

[logen]

Those who bought Trump's promises of anti-establishment and change have to be wondering right about now.

He now says......

*He will keep some of Obamacare
*He will find a pathway to legalize some undocumented workers
*He will not tear up the Iran Deal. Rather, he will look to make adjustments

He is also tapping several "establishment" people for transition.

These are all probably smart moves, but it is a far cry from the tough guy everyone voted for.

I don't get it Johnny. It is clear that you are looking for reason to pick on the guy and find fault. Everything he is saying and what you point out shows that he is trying to improve things and unify the country and not create further division. You and others should be happy, he is trying to calm the tension not heighten the fears and division within the country. You should be applauding your president elect for softening his stance and looking to retain the positive elements of certain packs while simultaneously asking how he can improve. I certainly don't see the far right raising the issues you have so if they don't it leaves me scratching my head as to why the left is ???

Because the left is not concerned about improving the country, the lefts only goal is to seize power and essentially create a one party country. That's why they plotted against Sanders, while I disagree with him on most issues, he was his own man to a large degree and they don't want that.

to be fair to my friends who are dems I think it's more of the establishment of dems in washington and elsewhere

Agree with you on Bernie too. I might not have liked him ( mainly because he didnt have plan to pay for any pie in the sky ideas ) but I did actually agree with him on some things and totally respect him for being his own person

Better to be respected than liked so he impressed me with that

I agree with your Dems point. That 's why I wrote the left not Dems. I personally think many good Dems were fooled because the media support of Clinton was not understood to be propaganda, not news.

 

[logen]

Those who bought Trump's promises of anti-establishment and change have to be wondering right about now.

He now says......

*He will keep some of Obamacare
*He will find a pathway to legalize some undocumented workers
*He will not tear up the Iran Deal. Rather, he will look to make adjustments

He is also tapping several "establishment" people for transition.

These are all probably smart moves, but it is a far cry from the tough guy everyone voted for.

I don't get it Johnny. It is clear that you are looking for reason to pick on the guy and find fault. Everything he is saying and what you point out shows that he is trying to improve things and unify the country and not create further division. You and others should be happy, he is trying to calm the tension not heighten the fears and division within the country. You should be applauding your president elect for softening his stance and looking to retain the positive elements of certain packs while simultaneously asking how he can improve. I certainly don't see the far right raising the issues you have so if they don't it leaves me scratching my head as to why the left is ???

I agree with that and I much prefer him to soften and attempt to unify. I am just pointing out the irony in the softening, since many Trump voters fell in love with his tough talk and uncompromising approach.

He is far from the first president elect to back away from his promises, but given his campaign bravado, I find it more interesting.

No, Trump voters wanted change, pure and simple and he offered it; he recognized that Middle America is hurting, genuinely hurting. Clinton offered the end of the USA as we know it and it was obvious to Trump supporters. All you have to do is look at a voting map to see the left had essentially abandoned everything in this country except both coasts and we were headed for one party elitist rule.

 

[JohnnyFan]

Listen to him during campaign, he repeatedly stated he would keep parts of plan, 26 years old and pre existing conditions.

I don't remember that. I only remember him chanting "repeal and replace", but I will take your word for it.

That said, it has been established that insurance companies cannot survive if they are required to accept pre-existing conditions, unless there is a mitigating factor such as requiring everyone to purchase health insurance (essentially Obamacare). My guess is that, after destroying Obamacare, he ends up keeping most of the "disaster". He will use the word "repeal" to pacify his supporter.

On the campaign trail, Trump did say on more than one occasion that he would keep coverage people with preexisting conditions. It is not the insurance companies who are going to pay for it, it is the taxpayer. And that cost is going to be offset by cost savings in Medicare, which is bloated out of control. Paul Ryan already has a plan along these lines ready to go, the Republicans have been working on this for the past few years.

I am very skeptical about the numbers (premium savings offsetting tax cost to pay for it) actually working in our favor. But, it would certainly be a good thing.

 

[JohnnyFan]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

 

[monte]

Those who bought Trump's promises of anti-establishment and change have to be wondering right about now.

He now says......

*He will keep some of Obamacare
*He will find a pathway to legalize some undocumented workers
*He will not tear up the Iran Deal. Rather, he will look to make adjustments

He is also tapping several "establishment" people for transition.

These are all probably smart moves, but it is a far cry from the tough guy everyone voted for.

I don't get it Johnny. It is clear that you are looking for reason to pick on the guy and find fault. Everything he is saying and what you point out shows that he is trying to improve things and unify the country and not create further division. You and others should be happy, he is trying to calm the tension not heighten the fears and division within the country. You should be applauding your president elect for softening his stance and looking to retain the positive elements of certain packs while simultaneously asking how he can improve. I certainly don't see the far right raising the issues you have so if they don't it leaves me scratching my head as to why the left is ???

Because the left is not concerned about improving the country, the lefts only goal is to seize power and essentially create a one party country. That's why they plotted against Sanders, while I disagree with him on most issues, he was his own man to a large degree and they don't want that.

to be fair to my friends who are dems I think it's more of the establishment of dems in washington and elsewhere

Agree with you on Bernie too. I might not have liked him ( mainly because he didnt have plan to pay for any pie in the sky ideas ) but I did actually agree with him on some things and totally respect him for being his own person

Better to be respected than liked so he impressed me with that

Nice Opin piece by him in NY Times a few days ago. Actually shocked they published it since all they seem to publish is inflammatory pieces. Also he was a good listen on Face the Nation this morning.

 

[41ndone]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

You'll be pleased that Trump and Ryan issued a statement claiming the above sentiments and extreme fringe groups will have no place in the administration or republican party. However, strangely it's not mentioned in the ny times, daily news, or huffington post. Hmm, wonder why?

 

[JohnnyFan]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

You'll be pleased that Trump and Ryan issued a statement claiming the above sentiments and extreme fringe groups will have no place in the administration or republican party. However, strangely it's not mentioned in the ny times, daily news, or huffington post. Hmm, wonder why?

If he is saying that, we all know it will not be picked up by leftist media outlets. Regardless, it is his responsibility to make sure that message get's out there. He champions Twitter as an unedited way to reach the public. So let's have it. Tweet it out, Donald.

 

[fuchsia]

Trump likes winning. I expect him to govern in a way that shows him to be a winning President. He is an ideolog the way I am a four minute miler, NOT. One way to think about the election is to envision two bell curves, one with much longer tails on both sides of the mean. Trump's possibilities for implementing change were always much greater than Clinton's. We only have to hope it is for the better. As I discussed in private with many of the folks who contributed to this thread, we the people are going to have to do more to break down the partisan rancor to which the political class bows down and confront them with possible, equitable, change options.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Those who bought Trump's promises of anti-establishment and change have to be wondering right about now.

He now says......

*He will keep some of Obamacare
*He will find a pathway to legalize some undocumented workers
*He will not tear up the Iran Deal. Rather, he will look to make adjustments

He is also tapping several "establishment" people for transition.

These are all probably smart moves, but it is a far cry from the tough guy everyone voted for.

I don't get it Johnny. It is clear that you are looking for reason to pick on the guy and find fault. Everything he is saying and what you point out shows that he is trying to improve things and unify the country and not create further division. You and others should be happy, he is trying to calm the tension not heighten the fears and division within the country. You should be applauding your president elect for softening his stance and looking to retain the positive elements of certain packs while simultaneously asking how he can improve. I certainly don't see the far right raising the issues you have so if they don't it leaves me scratching my head as to why the left is ???

Because the left is not concerned about improving the country, the lefts only goal is to seize power and essentially create a one party country. That's why they plotted against Sanders, while I disagree with him on most issues, he was his own man to a large degree and they don't want that.

to be fair to my friends who are dems I think it's more of the establishment of dems in washington and elsewhere

Agree with you on Bernie too. I might not have liked him ( mainly because he didnt have plan to pay for any pie in the sky ideas ) but I did actually agree with him on some things and totally respect him for being his own person

Better to be respected than liked so he impressed me with that

I agree with your Dems point. That 's why I wrote the left not Dems. I personally think many good Dems were fooled because the media support of Clinton was not understood to be propaganda, not news.

To me it's very interesting on what our members here North of the border think about the media coverage and I agree with your point in regards to that

 

[monte]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

So that is were the bar is set for you to "give him a chance"? Short of that are you hoping he fails? Not compare you to the protesters and many others on the left, but my feeling is that there is absolutely nothing he can do or say that would be good enough for many on the left to "give him a chance". But just my opinion. FWIW I work in a blue collar industry, and I have spoken to many blue collar minorities since the election. Pretty much to person they did not vote for Donald Trump but are willing to give Donald Trump a chance. Yet so many of the white, white collar Dems that I know are not. Go figure.

 

[mjmaherjr]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

You'll be pleased that Trump and Ryan issued a statement claiming the above sentiments and extreme fringe groups will have no place in the administration or republican party. However, strangely it's not mentioned in the ny times, daily news, or huffington post. Hmm, wonder why?

They did ? I didn't even know that but regardless I think it was a good point by Johnnyfan and I myself would like to hear Trump say it out loud at a press conference.

Actions speak louder than words but in this case I'd like to hear them spoken also. To use Michelle Obama's words " when they go low we go high ". I'd like to see Trump adopt that in his presidency

 

[JohnnyFan]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

So that is were the bar is set for you to "give him a chance"? Short of that are you hoping he fails? Not compare you to the protesters and many others on the left, but my feeling is that there is absolutely nothing he can do or say that would be good enough for many on the left to "give him a chance". But just my opinion. FWIW I work in a blue collar industry, and I have spoken to many blue collar minorities since the election. Pretty much to person they did not vote for Donald Trump but are willing to give Donald Trump a chance. Yet so many of the white, white collar Dems that I know are not. Go figure.

I can only speak for myself. I think the protesters are wasting their time and we have no choice but to accept his presidency.

Truthfully, even if he read my exact quote, I will always beleive him to be a narcissistic bigot. However, the point is that attempting to unify is now one of his responsibilities. If he came out and denounced the items I identified, I would at least take solace in the fact that he recognizes that his divisive rhetoric will stunt his opportunity to succeed.

 

[monte]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

So that is were the bar is set for you to "give him a chance"? Short of that are you hoping he fails? Not compare you to the protesters and many others on the left, but my feeling is that there is absolutely nothing he can do or say that would be good enough for many on the left to "give him a chance". But just my opinion. FWIW I work in a blue collar industry, and I have spoken to many blue collar minorities since the election. Pretty much to person they did not vote for Donald Trump but are willing to give Donald Trump a chance. Yet so many of the white, white collar Dems that I know are not. Go figure.

I can only speak for myself. I think the protesters are wasting their time and we have no choice but to accept his presidency.

Truthfully, even if he read my exact quote, I will always beleive him to be a narcissistic bigot. However, the point is that attempting to unify is now one of his responsibilities. If he came out and denounced the items I identified, I would at least take solace in the fact that he recognizes that his divisive rhetoric will stunt his opportunity to succeed.

What do you mean you "think" they are wasting their time?

 

[monte]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

You'll be pleased that Trump and Ryan issued a statement claiming the above sentiments and extreme fringe groups will have no place in the administration or republican party. However, strangely it's not mentioned in the ny times, daily news, or huffington post. Hmm, wonder why?

They did ? I didn't even know that but regardless I think it was a good point by Johnnyfan and I myself would like to hear Trump say it out loud at a press conference.

Actions speak louder than words but in this case I'd like to hear them spoken also. To use Michelle Obama's words " when they go low we go high ". I'd like to see Trump adopt that in his presidency

I think that our Trump, Obama and Clinton ought to get together and hold a press conference/love fest in an attempt to unify the country. Hell throw ole Bernie up there too for good measure

 

[JohnnyFan]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

So that is were the bar is set for you to "give him a chance"? Short of that are you hoping he fails? Not compare you to the protesters and many others on the left, but my feeling is that there is absolutely nothing he can do or say that would be good enough for many on the left to "give him a chance". But just my opinion. FWIW I work in a blue collar industry, and I have spoken to many blue collar minorities since the election. Pretty much to person they did not vote for Donald Trump but are willing to give Donald Trump a chance. Yet so many of the white, white collar Dems that I know are not. Go figure.

I can only speak for myself. I think the protesters are wasting their time and we have no choice but to accept his presidency.

Truthfully, even if he read my exact quote, I will always beleive him to be a narcissistic bigot. However, the point is that attempting to unify is now one of his responsibilities. If he came out and denounced the items I identified, I would at least take solace in the fact that he recognizes that his divisive rhetoric will stunt his opportunity to succeed.

What do you mean you "think" they are wasting their time?

I mean that it is my opinion that they are wasting their time. Our opportunity to control the outcome was on election day.

 

[monte]

One final point from me. If Trump supporters would like to see everyone unify and give him a chance, I have a suggestion. Trump should immediately come out and say something like the following:

"I do genuinely want to be a president for all. During my campaign, I made many unfortunate and admittedly divisive comments that do not reflect the way I intend to govern. For the record, I unequivocally reject racism, sexism, antisemitism or any policy that facilitates inequality. I look forward to proving this to all those who were rightfully offended by comments that actually have no place in this country"

If he is not big enough to do something like this, people who do reject these ugly sentiments (including me) will not "give him a chance".

So that is were the bar is set for you to "give him a chance"? Short of that are you hoping he fails? Not compare you to the protesters and many others on the left, but my feeling is that there is absolutely nothing he can do or say that would be good enough for many on the left to "give him a chance". But just my opinion. FWIW I work in a blue collar industry, and I have spoken to many blue collar minorities since the election. Pretty much to person they did not vote for Donald Trump but are willing to give Donald Trump a chance. Yet so many of the white, white collar Dems that I know are not. Go figure.

I can only speak for myself. I think the protesters are wasting their time and we have no choice but to accept his presidency.

Truthfully, even if he read my exact quote, I will always beleive him to be a narcissistic bigot. However, the point is that attempting to unify is now one of his responsibilities. If he came out and denounced the items I identified, I would at least take solace in the fact that he recognizes that his divisive rhetoric will stunt his opportunity to succeed.

What do you mean you "think" they are wasting their time?

I mean that it is my opinion that they are wasting their time. Our opportunity to control the outcome was on election day.

Just adding a little levity to the thread JF. Agree completely tho that election day was the day.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Panther, ask many of the men and women of law enforcement how much better off they are over the last 8 years......glad you are enjoying life, many aren't and that's not to say life will be peaches and cream under trump. But like 8 years ago many people want change

Police officer deaths during GWB's 8 year term: 1,212, So far during Obama's term: 1,062. And yes I have NYPD officers in my family and know how hard the job is but just quoting facts.

As far as total deaths I agree the trend is lower although Bush did lose something like 60 on 9/11

To me the thing to be concerned about and I'm not blaming Obama but Police Officer deaths by shootings are up this year markedly over last year

My brother used to work in a really bad area of Brooklyn and then he finally moved to aviation probably 10 years ago and then after he moved his partner was murdered while working. Now even as a helicopter pilot you aren't out of the woods because there are these jackoffs trying to blind him and the other pilots with the laser pointers. Literally just happened again a couple of days ago to him from some asshole they caught doing it before. Luckily my brother spotted him and put the spotlights on him so police on the ground could arrest the f*ck

http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/man-who-pointed-laser-at-nypd-helicopter-is-a-repeat-offender/

 

[monte]

Panther, ask many of the men and women of law enforcement how much better off they are over the last 8 years......glad you are enjoying life, many aren't and that's not to say life will be peaches and cream under trump. But like 8 years ago many people want change

Police officer deaths during GWB's 8 year term: 1,212, So far during Obama's term: 1,062. And yes I have NYPD officers in my family and know how hard the job is but just quoting facts.

As far as total deaths I agree the trend is lower although Bush did lose something like 60 on 9/11

To me the thing to be concerned about and I'm not blaming Obama but Police Officer deaths by shootings are up this year markedly over last year

My brother used to work in a really bad area of Brooklyn and then he finally moved to aviation probably 10 years ago and then after he moved his partner was murdered while working. Now even as a helicopter pilot you aren't out of the woods because there are these jackoffs trying to blind him and the other pilots with the laser pointers. Literally just happened again a couple of days ago to him from some asshole they caught doing it before. Luckily my brother spotted him and put the spotlights on him so police on the ground could arrest the f*ck

http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/man-who-pointed-laser-at-nypd-helicopter-is-a-repeat-offender/

Glad your bro was OK and that they caught the scumbag. Many thanks to him for helping to keep our city safe. Not any easy time to be on the job.

 

[bamafan]

Heard two women interviewed tonight at a protest sight (was having dinner out so don't know where it was) who advocated a revolution stating that lives would have to be sacrificed. One of them was holding a baby. God help us all.

One was that fat pg that the media outlets keep showing the video of. Her parents did a hell of a job raising her. They must be so proud. As for the revolution, these losers couldn't start a revolution if their lives depended on it. They talk a good game, but they have been given free reign. The push back is about to happen.

Just using the quote function here to bring this topic back because there were quite a few posts kind of poo pooing this threat. But while many of those protesters might not be capable of a violent revolution if the rhetoric and anti Trump frenzy continues it could lead to something like what happened in Dallas with the shooting of 5 policemen. A friend of mine sent me a video of a white male being dragged out of his car by a group of black men and beaten to a pulp because he had a Trump bumper sticker on his car. Of course the main stream media buries this story because it doesn't fit the narrative of the agenda. Would hate to see any innocent people attacked and maybe killed. By the way watching a late night episode of Stephen Colbert the other night because he had on a quest I was interested in seeing. His monologue was totally anti Trump and Republican and pro Clinton, Obama and the Democrats. It was beyond ridiculous and he obviously packed the audience with only liberals as they howled and applauded everything he said without any booing or catcalls coming from the audience.

The flip side is that during the past week, 5 white males have shot 10 police officers killing 6 and 2 more are in critical condition. Why aren't conservatives talking about this???
Can you imagine the outcry if 5 Black, Mexican, or Muslim males had shot 10 police officers killing 6 of them, let's be real, shit stinks on both sides of the fence.
The problem as I see it, is that no one is listening to understand. People are listening to respond, therefore missing the point of what is being stated.

In the Dallas shootings I mentioned the police officers was shot just because they were police. There is a difference between police being shot during commission of a crime or arrest. In the cases you sight, what was the motivation behind the shootings?