Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

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seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.

In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.


"speech that OFFENDS"?????? These days everyrhing offends the left. See "safe spaces" on college campus's as a case in point. Not saying Trump hasn't said some objectively offensive things, but time for everyone to try and come together, move past that and move forward. Or for those that can't, move out of the country. Because, like it or not, President Trump is here for the next 4 years.

I am going start to extract myself from this thread, as we are going in circles and I am admittedly just repeating myself.

Monte, I agree that people these days need to grow a thicker skin. But race and religion are unique. These are two issues that, throughout history have been highly explosive. Telling people to suck it up is one option, but history says that, when it come to these specific issues, it is not a productive option.

Yes, Trump will be president. He will be watched very closely. If he continues with the anti-semetic rhetoric, this country will be set back 50 years.
 
I think BEAST mentioned this previously. When Trump talked about the Mexican criminals entering this country,I took it as he was referring about the violent Mexicans only and not all Mexicans. Many people, w the help of the media interpreted his statement as being against all Mexicans. Same thing w Arabs. What I heard from Trump is he is against the extremists and wants proper vetting. I think Trumps words were taken a little too literally. He was a womanizer, like many former Presidents, and he appreciates beauty. But his campaign and company has hired plenty of females based on merit. Katrina Pierson is half black. I voted for Trump , but had reservations. Time will tell.

When he was battling for the nomination during the primary season, Trump talked about deporting every person that was living illegally in our country, all 11 million of them. Just one of the many ridiculous statements that he made in the past few months.

He later softened his stance to say that he would go after illegals that had committed crimes first and then decide what to do with the others. But initially, he clearly stated that he wanted to get rid of EVERYONE who was not here legally.
One of the reasons I had reservations about Trump is because I thought his mouth was too big. But as I said I didn't take everything he said literally. Also in negotiations you ask for more than you want and settle for something in the middle. Furthermore when he said he wanted to get rid of people that were here illegally, he also said they can return by legal means after being vetted.. The immigration problem is complex. One could argue its not fair for somebody to enter this country illegally while someone else is trying to enter legally. Trump is right about one thing, we have to have borders.
 
I think BEAST mentioned this previously. When Trump talked about the Mexican criminals entering this country,I took it as he was referring about the violent Mexicans only and not all Mexicans. Many people, w the help of the media interpreted his statement as being against all Mexicans. Same thing w Arabs. What I heard from Trump is he is against the extremists and wants proper vetting. I think Trumps words were taken a little too literally. He was a womanizer, like many former Presidents, and he appreciates beauty. But his campaign and company has hired plenty of females based on merit. Katrina Pierson is half black. I voted for Trump , but had reservations. Time will tell.

Curious, are you Mexican? If not, I am not sure it matters how YOU interpreted his comments.

Trump is now charged with leading a diverse group of LEGAL citizens. May God help him understand that what a president says (and how he says it) matters.
 
I agree that racism is a real thing in this country. I think most of it exists at the level of a sort of subconscious caste system as opposed to the KKK variety. There are even versions within ethnic cultures that are much worse than the average white oblivious guy, that make it a more complicated problem. On the other hand, I believe it is really imprudent to go throwing around words like racist and Hitler as it solves NOTHING and polarizes people that could otherwise be rational or even embarrassed about their own behaviors if they realize that they are prejudiced at some level. Possibly through some rational, non polarizing discussion with other reasonable people. This is made impossible by the cycle of politicians using race as a means to polarize people - like blackmailing companies and other organizations by threats of racist accusations or hiring rioters to protest the President elect.

I am sorry, if you are worried about polarization, I am not sure you understand the impact of America electing someone who has openly attacked many citizens' most sacred personal attributes. This is not a normal election outcome. Whether you like it or not, millions and millions of people are not going to just get over it.

We are beyond polarized now. Ship has sailed.

Kind of misses the point though right? It is not a question of whether or not people are polarized. It is a matter of those who choose to make it worse for their own profit.
 
Trump is now charged with leading a diverse group of LEGAL citizens. May God help him understand that what a president says (and how he says it) matters.

I unequivocally agree with you on that. Now let's extend that same standard to ALL those inciting racist animosity, riots and violence for political gains and we are reasonable people
 
Trump is now charged with leading a diverse group of LEGAL citizens. May God help him understand that what a president says (and how he says it) matters.

I unequivocally agree with you on that. Now let's extend that same standard to ALL those inciting racist animosity, riots and violence for political gains and we are reasonable people

Well, in my opinion no one has incited racist animosity more than Mr. Trump has over the past 18 months.

If you are referencing the current anti-trump protests, I agree that they are ridiculous. He is now the president elect and the time to register their vote was Tuesday.
 
seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.

In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.

You know of course that Hilary has her share of these types of comments both public and private. For example you know that she said that she wanted to build the same wall that Trump got vilified for? But for her she can say one thing to one group, then the exact opposite to another and no one in the media calls her out on it. Calling a large segment of the US population deplorable basement dwellers?
My wife is an immigrant by the way. My children are Hispanic. Several of my primary father figures were black men when I lived in a boys' home as a child. I've worked with many immigrants and illegal aliens and I admire these people much more than I admire entitled, self satisfied people that mock our country and the hard working people - deplorable or not, white, black hispanic or otherwise. I know some of their personal stories of sacrifice and hard work just to get to this country that would make most of us blush and then working and sacrificing here to have a very modest life for themselves and their children. These things are important to me. I didn't vote for Trump. I couldn't vote fore either of them. I guess I took the coward's way out but I'm not giving Trump a pass. But at least be consistent otherwise it is just hypocrisy that serves no good purpose. This is the same America that voted for 8 years of Obama. They want a change but now everyone who doesn't want what you want is a racist? Hitler? That is the language of hate and divisiveness. You can cut and paste dictionary definitions to justify it just like some Bible thumper could cut an paste Bible quotes. Justify away but it is two sides of the same coin.

Thank you, Paul. I appreciate hearing your background and can tell you were thoughtful about your decision to cast no vote. I know Hillary speaks out of both sides of her mouth. She makes robotic decisions based on perceived voter support. I simply cannot make a case for her. However, I can tell you that I was willing to have more of the same government in order to block an openly racist, sexist individual to the office of the President of the United States. Yes, our president elect is a racist. There is more evidence of this than with any other public figure.

A large group of voters decided that a chance for change on the coat tails of a racist was an acceptable price to pay. Not surprisingly, the exact demographics that were not attacked by Trump were most willing to overlooked his racism. White america (I am a white, Irish, Catholic) has sent a very strong and clear message to women and minorities. I am embarrassed by that, and I do not look forward to the extreme division it will cause.
But why did he get something like 29% of the Spanish vote which was more than Romney ? My fiancée definitely didn't vote for him but a lot more Spanish did that I thought would

That really is a good point and it is difficult to explain. Regardless, the remaining 71% feel offended, disenfranchised and fear. That is not a good thing.

Not necessarily.

The pew report showed that only 51% of latinos favored Clinton, with 24% favoring Sanders.



Only 14% of latinos, compared to 57% said they were voting Republican. Clearly Trump struck a chord with many Latinos, and he actually got a disproprtionate % of their vote by Latinos registered with a party.

You cannot group all Latinos together. Cubans are vastly different from Mexicans in many demographics, including education, and Latinos often vote independent of what leaders tell them to vote. In 2012 Obama got 95% of the black vote - does that mean blacks didn't like Romney - probably not.

First off, you are talking about a couple os pretty isolated positions:

1) Trump wanting to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants (which has nothing to do with being racist). His example of illegals coming here to commit crime was a poor rationale, but he did tone down that rhetoric as the campaign wen ton.

2) His comments about halting mass immigration of Muslims until "we can figure out what the hell is going on" did not cast aspersions on all Muslims, but was correctly identifying that nearly all terrorist attacks were done by radical Islamic murderers. He did not rant on endlessly that Muslims in general were terrorists or any other disparaging comments. So the charges of racism were products of the Democratic party and liberal media attempting to demonize Trump and they did a great job.

3) Comments about Trump's lecherous behavior did not even approach the things Bill Clinton has actually verifiably done and been accused of, which is rape and aggravated sexual assault. If the charges against Trump were true, why weren't they raised over his 40 year public career, instead of loaded up as bombshells in a Presidential, This wasn't exactly Bill Cosby, although liberals tried to paint him that way.

Finally, after liberals went off the wall when Trump implied that if he thought the election was rigged, he might challenge the results and not concede, instead they are silent as morons flood the streets to protest Trump's election. they aren't going to accomplish a damned thing, and most of them are so inarticulate that when stopped by News interviewers, they mumble an obscenity and run away. Not a single Democratic Leader, not Obama and not Clinton, has told them to go home and accept that Trump was fairly elected, and to now work to make this country better.
 
Thank you everyone for the outlet. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion minus any personal attacks. I truly mean that.

Perhaps Johnny fans are of a classy, mature breed?

On to the season......
 
Thank you everyone for the outlet. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion minus any personal attacks. I truly mean that.

Perhaps Johnny fans are of a classy, mature breed?

On to the season......

I especially think you are a good guy, simply with an opposing view. You've articulated some cogent points, and I appreciate the spirit and tone that you've debated. These are hot subjects, and we are bound to rankle some sensitivities, but you did it well.
 
seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.

In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.

You know of course that Hilary has her share of these types of comments both public and private. For example you know that she said that she wanted to build the same wall that Trump got vilified for? But for her she can say one thing to one group, then the exact opposite to another and no one in the media calls her out on it. Calling a large segment of the US population deplorable basement dwellers?
My wife is an immigrant by the way. My children are Hispanic. Several of my primary father figures were black men when I lived in a boys' home as a child. I've worked with many immigrants and illegal aliens and I admire these people much more than I admire entitled, self satisfied people that mock our country and the hard working people - deplorable or not, white, black hispanic or otherwise. I know some of their personal stories of sacrifice and hard work just to get to this country that would make most of us blush and then working and sacrificing here to have a very modest life for themselves and their children. These things are important to me. I didn't vote for Trump. I couldn't vote fore either of them. I guess I took the coward's way out but I'm not giving Trump a pass. But at least be consistent otherwise it is just hypocrisy that serves no good purpose. This is the same America that voted for 8 years of Obama. They want a change but now everyone who doesn't want what you want is a racist? Hitler? That is the language of hate and divisiveness. You can cut and paste dictionary definitions to justify it just like some Bible thumper could cut an paste Bible quotes. Justify away but it is two sides of the same coin.

Thank you, Paul. I appreciate hearing your background and can tell you were thoughtful about your decision to cast no vote. I know Hillary speaks out of both sides of her mouth. She makes robotic decisions based on perceived voter support. I simply cannot make a case for her. However, I can tell you that I was willing to have more of the same government in order to block an openly racist, sexist individual to the office of the President of the United States. Yes, our president elect is a racist. There is more evidence of this than with any other public figure.

A large group of voters decided that a chance for change on the coat tails of a racist was an acceptable price to pay. Not surprisingly, the exact demographics that were not attacked by Trump were most willing to overlooked his racism. White america (I am a white, Irish, Catholic) has sent a very strong and clear message to women and minorities. I am embarrassed by that, and I do not look forward to the extreme division it will cause.
But why did he get something like 29% of the Spanish vote which was more than Romney ? My fiancée definitely didn't vote for him but a lot more Spanish did that I thought would

That really is a good point and it is difficult to explain. Regardless, the remaining 71% feel offended, disenfranchised and fear. That is not a good thing.

Not necessarily.

The pew report showed that only 51% of latinos favored Clinton, with 24% favoring Sanders.



Only 14% of latinos, compared to 57% said they were voting Republican. Clearly Trump struck a chord with many Latinos, and he actually got a disproprtionate % of their vote by Latinos registered with a party.

You cannot group all Latinos together. Cubans are vastly different from Mexicans in many demographics, including education, and Latinos often vote independent of what leaders tell them to vote. In 2012 Obama got 95% of the black vote - does that mean blacks didn't like Romney - probably not.

First off, you are talking about a couple os pretty isolated positions:

1) Trump wanting to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants (which has nothing to do with being racist). His example of illegals coming here to commit crime was a poor rationale, but he did tone down that rhetoric as the campaign wen ton.

2) His comments about halting mass immigration of Muslims until "we can figure out what the hell is going on" did not cast aspersions on all Muslims, but was correctly identifying that nearly all terrorist attacks were done by radical Islamic murderers. He did not rant on endlessly that Muslims in general were terrorists or any other disparaging comments. So the charges of racism were products of the Democratic party and liberal media attempting to demonize Trump and they did a great job.

3) Comments about Trump's lecherous behavior did not even approach the things Bill Clinton has actually verifiably done and been accused of, which is rape and aggravated sexual assault. If the charges against Trump were true, why weren't they raised over his 40 year public career, instead of loaded up as bombshells in a Presidential, This wasn't exactly Bill Cosby, although liberals tried to paint him that way.

Finally, after liberals went off the wall when Trump implied that if he thought the election was rigged, he might challenge the results and not concede, instead they are silent as morons flood the streets to protest Trump's election. they aren't going to accomplish a damned thing, and most of them are so inarticulate that when stopped by News interviewers, they mumble an obscenity and run away. Not a single Democratic Leader, not Obama and not Clinton, has told them to go home and accept that Trump was fairly elected, and to now work to make this country better.


Big difference, they're not protesting the results, at least I hope they're not and I'm still avoiding a lot of the news, but they are protesting the message that this election sends to everyone, from my children, to the rest of the world, all the while reminding the President elect that most folks didn't vote for him and don't agree with him so he'll need to take all opinions into account if he doesn't want the typical first mid term backlash to be even more substantial than usual.
 
seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.

In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.

You know of course that Hilary has her share of these types of comments both public and private. For example you know that she said that she wanted to build the same wall that Trump got vilified for? But for her she can say one thing to one group, then the exact opposite to another and no one in the media calls her out on it. Calling a large segment of the US population deplorable basement dwellers?
My wife is an immigrant by the way. My children are Hispanic. Several of my primary father figures were black men when I lived in a boys' home as a child. I've worked with many immigrants and illegal aliens and I admire these people much more than I admire entitled, self satisfied people that mock our country and the hard working people - deplorable or not, white, black hispanic or otherwise. I know some of their personal stories of sacrifice and hard work just to get to this country that would make most of us blush and then working and sacrificing here to have a very modest life for themselves and their children. These things are important to me. I didn't vote for Trump. I couldn't vote fore either of them. I guess I took the coward's way out but I'm not giving Trump a pass. But at least be consistent otherwise it is just hypocrisy that serves no good purpose. This is the same America that voted for 8 years of Obama. They want a change but now everyone who doesn't want what you want is a racist? Hitler? That is the language of hate and divisiveness. You can cut and paste dictionary definitions to justify it just like some Bible thumper could cut an paste Bible quotes. Justify away but it is two sides of the same coin.

Thank you, Paul. I appreciate hearing your background and can tell you were thoughtful about your decision to cast no vote. I know Hillary speaks out of both sides of her mouth. She makes robotic decisions based on perceived voter support. I simply cannot make a case for her. However, I can tell you that I was willing to have more of the same government in order to block an openly racist, sexist individual to the office of the President of the United States. Yes, our president elect is a racist. There is more evidence of this than with any other public figure.

A large group of voters decided that a chance for change on the coat tails of a racist was an acceptable price to pay. Not surprisingly, the exact demographics that were not attacked by Trump were most willing to overlooked his racism. White america (I am a white, Irish, Catholic) has sent a very strong and clear message to women and minorities. I am embarrassed by that, and I do not look forward to the extreme division it will cause.
But why did he get something like 29% of the Spanish vote which was more than Romney ? My fiancée definitely didn't vote for him but a lot more Spanish did that I thought would

That really is a good point and it is difficult to explain. Regardless, the remaining 71% feel offended, disenfranchised and fear. That is not a good thing.


You cannot group all Latinos together. Cubans are vastly different from Mexicans in many demographics, including education, and Latinos often vote independent of what leaders tell them to vote.

Exactly, though I do find it a bit perplexing that someone "married" to a wonderful Latin woman wouldn't understand this. LOL
 
seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.

In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.

You know of course that Hilary has her share of these types of comments both public and private. For example you know that she said that she wanted to build the same wall that Trump got vilified for? But for her she can say one thing to one group, then the exact opposite to another and no one in the media calls her out on it. Calling a large segment of the US population deplorable basement dwellers?
My wife is an immigrant by the way. My children are Hispanic. Several of my primary father figures were black men when I lived in a boys' home as a child. I've worked with many immigrants and illegal aliens and I admire these people much more than I admire entitled, self satisfied people that mock our country and the hard working people - deplorable or not, white, black hispanic or otherwise. I know some of their personal stories of sacrifice and hard work just to get to this country that would make most of us blush and then working and sacrificing here to have a very modest life for themselves and their children. These things are important to me. I didn't vote for Trump. I couldn't vote fore either of them. I guess I took the coward's way out but I'm not giving Trump a pass. But at least be consistent otherwise it is just hypocrisy that serves no good purpose. This is the same America that voted for 8 years of Obama. They want a change but now everyone who doesn't want what you want is a racist? Hitler? That is the language of hate and divisiveness. You can cut and paste dictionary definitions to justify it just like some Bible thumper could cut an paste Bible quotes. Justify away but it is two sides of the same coin.

Thank you, Paul. I appreciate hearing your background and can tell you were thoughtful about your decision to cast no vote. I know Hillary speaks out of both sides of her mouth. She makes robotic decisions based on perceived voter support. I simply cannot make a case for her. However, I can tell you that I was willing to have more of the same government in order to block an openly racist, sexist individual to the office of the President of the United States. Yes, our president elect is a racist. There is more evidence of this than with any other public figure.

A large group of voters decided that a chance for change on the coat tails of a racist was an acceptable price to pay. Not surprisingly, the exact demographics that were not attacked by Trump were most willing to overlooked his racism. White america (I am a white, Irish, Catholic) has sent a very strong and clear message to women and minorities. I am embarrassed by that, and I do not look forward to the extreme division it will cause.
But why did he get something like 29% of the Spanish vote which was more than Romney ? My fiancée definitely didn't vote for him but a lot more Spanish did that I thought would

That really is a good point and it is difficult to explain. Regardless, the remaining 71% feel offended, disenfranchised and fear. That is not a good thing.

Not necessarily.

The pew report showed that only 51% of latinos favored Clinton, with 24% favoring Sanders.



Only 14% of latinos, compared to 57% said they were voting Republican. Clearly Trump struck a chord with many Latinos, and he actually got a disproprtionate % of their vote by Latinos registered with a party.

You cannot group all Latinos together. Cubans are vastly different from Mexicans in many demographics, including education, and Latinos often vote independent of what leaders tell them to vote. In 2012 Obama got 95% of the black vote - does that mean blacks didn't like Romney - probably not.

First off, you are talking about a couple os pretty isolated positions:

1) Trump wanting to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants (which has nothing to do with being racist). His example of illegals coming here to commit crime was a poor rationale, but he did tone down that rhetoric as the campaign wen ton.

2) His comments about halting mass immigration of Muslims until "we can figure out what the hell is going on" did not cast aspersions on all Muslims, but was correctly identifying that nearly all terrorist attacks were done by radical Islamic murderers. He did not rant on endlessly that Muslims in general were terrorists or any other disparaging comments. So the charges of racism were products of the Democratic party and liberal media attempting to demonize Trump and they did a great job.

3) Comments about Trump's lecherous behavior did not even approach the things Bill Clinton has actually verifiably done and been accused of, which is rape and aggravated sexual assault. If the charges against Trump were true, why weren't they raised over his 40 year public career, instead of loaded up as bombshells in a Presidential, This wasn't exactly Bill Cosby, although liberals tried to paint him that way.

Finally, after liberals went off the wall when Trump implied that if he thought the election was rigged, he might challenge the results and not concede, instead they are silent as morons flood the streets to protest Trump's election. they aren't going to accomplish a damned thing, and most of them are so inarticulate that when stopped by News interviewers, they mumble an obscenity and run away. Not a single Democratic Leader, not Obama and not Clinton, has told them to go home and accept that Trump was fairly elected, and to now work to make this country better.


Big difference, they're not protesting the results, at least I hope they're not and I'm still avoiding a lot of the news, but they are protesting the message that this election sends to everyone, from my children, to the rest of the world, all the while reminding the President elect that most folks didn't vote for him and don't agree with him so he'll need to take all opinions into account if he doesn't want the typical first mid term backlash to be even more substantial than usual.


So what message would we have sent if Hillary was elected? A Purger who lied to the American public to get obama re-elected, who constantly put up with her husbands infidelity to further her own political career, A woman who sneered at laws and and of questionable ethics that would land most regular people in jail, a woman who stole the primary from bernie sanders by strong arming her own party? A politician who never took a stand she would not 180 if the polls were going the other way. Proof that money and influence will buy you an election. Wow that is an awesome message to tell our young people and the rest of the world.

I prefer to think the message is we are tired of the same old politics and we will elect anyone who has a chance to change it no matter how ab·hor·rent he may seem.
 
seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.

In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.

You know of course that Hilary has her share of these types of comments both public and private. For example you know that she said that she wanted to build the same wall that Trump got vilified for? But for her she can say one thing to one group, then the exact opposite to another and no one in the media calls her out on it. Calling a large segment of the US population deplorable basement dwellers?
My wife is an immigrant by the way. My children are Hispanic. Several of my primary father figures were black men when I lived in a boys' home as a child. I've worked with many immigrants and illegal aliens and I admire these people much more than I admire entitled, self satisfied people that mock our country and the hard working people - deplorable or not, white, black hispanic or otherwise. I know some of their personal stories of sacrifice and hard work just to get to this country that would make most of us blush and then working and sacrificing here to have a very modest life for themselves and their children. These things are important to me. I didn't vote for Trump. I couldn't vote fore either of them. I guess I took the coward's way out but I'm not giving Trump a pass. But at least be consistent otherwise it is just hypocrisy that serves no good purpose. This is the same America that voted for 8 years of Obama. They want a change but now everyone who doesn't want what you want is a racist? Hitler? That is the language of hate and divisiveness. You can cut and paste dictionary definitions to justify it just like some Bible thumper could cut an paste Bible quotes. Justify away but it is two sides of the same coin.

Thank you, Paul. I appreciate hearing your background and can tell you were thoughtful about your decision to cast no vote. I know Hillary speaks out of both sides of her mouth. She makes robotic decisions based on perceived voter support. I simply cannot make a case for her. However, I can tell you that I was willing to have more of the same government in order to block an openly racist, sexist individual to the office of the President of the United States. Yes, our president elect is a racist. There is more evidence of this than with any other public figure.

A large group of voters decided that a chance for change on the coat tails of a racist was an acceptable price to pay. Not surprisingly, the exact demographics that were not attacked by Trump were most willing to overlooked his racism. White america (I am a white, Irish, Catholic) has sent a very strong and clear message to women and minorities. I am embarrassed by that, and I do not look forward to the extreme division it will cause.
But why did he get something like 29% of the Spanish vote which was more than Romney ? My fiancée definitely didn't vote for him but a lot more Spanish did that I thought would

That really is a good point and it is difficult to explain. Regardless, the remaining 71% feel offended, disenfranchised and fear. That is not a good thing.

Not necessarily.

The pew report showed that only 51% of latinos favored Clinton, with 24% favoring Sanders.



Only 14% of latinos, compared to 57% said they were voting Republican. Clearly Trump struck a chord with many Latinos, and he actually got a disproprtionate % of their vote by Latinos registered with a party.

You cannot group all Latinos together. Cubans are vastly different from Mexicans in many demographics, including education, and Latinos often vote independent of what leaders tell them to vote. In 2012 Obama got 95% of the black vote - does that mean blacks didn't like Romney - probably not.

First off, you are talking about a couple os pretty isolated positions:

1) Trump wanting to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants (which has nothing to do with being racist). His example of illegals coming here to commit crime was a poor rationale, but he did tone down that rhetoric as the campaign wen ton.

2) His comments about halting mass immigration of Muslims until "we can figure out what the hell is going on" did not cast aspersions on all Muslims, but was correctly identifying that nearly all terrorist attacks were done by radical Islamic murderers. He did not rant on endlessly that Muslims in general were terrorists or any other disparaging comments. So the charges of racism were products of the Democratic party and liberal media attempting to demonize Trump and they did a great job.

3) Comments about Trump's lecherous behavior did not even approach the things Bill Clinton has actually verifiably done and been accused of, which is rape and aggravated sexual assault. If the charges against Trump were true, why weren't they raised over his 40 year public career, instead of loaded up as bombshells in a Presidential, This wasn't exactly Bill Cosby, although liberals tried to paint him that way.

Finally, after liberals went off the wall when Trump implied that if he thought the election was rigged, he might challenge the results and not concede, instead they are silent as morons flood the streets to protest Trump's election. they aren't going to accomplish a damned thing, and most of them are so inarticulate that when stopped by News interviewers, they mumble an obscenity and run away. Not a single Democratic Leader, not Obama and not Clinton, has told them to go home and accept that Trump was fairly elected, and to now work to make this country better.


Big difference, they're not protesting the results, at least I hope they're not and I'm still avoiding a lot of the news, but they are protesting the message that this election sends to everyone, from my children, to the rest of the world, all the while reminding the President elect that most folks didn't vote for him and don't agree with him so he'll need to take all opinions into account if he doesn't want the typical first mid term backlash to be even more substantial than usual.


Well, I'm not so sure. I think their chants were something to the effect that they wouldn't accept Trump as President. I think a Trump election is a symptom of what Americans are feeling, and not actually the disease itself. Had the Democrats put up a decent candidate, they would have beaten him. Obama is probably lamenting that Biden didn't run, or that they didn't put up Bloomberg.
 
seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.



In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.


"speech that OFFENDS"?????? These days everyrhing offends the left. See "safe spaces" on college campus's as a case in point. Not saying Trump hasn't said some objectively offensive things, but time for everyone to try and come together, move past that and move forward. Or for those that can't, move out of the country. Because, like it or not, President Trump is here for the next 4 years.

I am going start to extract myself from this thread, as we are going in circles and I am admittedly just repeating myself.

Monte, I agree that people these days need to grow a thicker skin. But race and religion are unique. These are two issues that, throughout history have been highly explosive. Telling people to suck it up is one option, but history says that, when it come to these specific issues, it is not a productive option.

Yes, Trump will be president. He will be watched very closely. If he continues with the anti-semetic rhetoric, this country will be set back 50 years.

I honestly do not think that Trump is a racist nor an anti-Semite, although of course I have no way of knowing for certain. Just as you have no way of knowing for certain that he is. I said it before and I'll say it again, I have probably uttered negative comments about most every Religion and ethnic group at some point over the course of my lifetime, and that includes my own Catholic Religion and Italian ethnicity. But see I don't hang on those kinds of things as others do. To each his own I guess. I expect and hope that moving forward he will turn down his rhetoric(a lot!), and that his comments will be more scripted. I think you will see a much more diplomatic Trump, one who will attempt to bridge the divide(which he helped create) with all religions and ethnicities. Time will tell, but IMO they guy deserves a chance by every American.
 
seems to me that calling someone a racist and comparing them to Hitler is hate speech. you are inciting others to hate this person and the people that voted for him. The irony is that far left wing ideologies are direct descendants of the Nazis and Margaret Sanger one of Hilary's heroes and a patron saint of the far left, was a big fan of Adolph Hitler. Partied with him, promoted him in the U.S. and Europe to raise money for him and the Nazis and idolized him especially the nazi ideals of racial purity and eugenics. Hilary wants her to be classified as an American hero.

When I say hate speech, I am operating under the definition below. I disagree that by categorizing Trump's comments that I, too,am practicing hate speech. That's just not accurate.

In end, we will never settle the argument. I just hope that those who marginalize Trump's comments could take a moment and try to imagine if he was talking about your race or your religion. Would you still vote for him? If not, how would you feel if 50 million people did?

Hate speech -speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits.

You know of course that Hilary has her share of these types of comments both public and private. For example you know that she said that she wanted to build the same wall that Trump got vilified for? But for her she can say one thing to one group, then the exact opposite to another and no one in the media calls her out on it. Calling a large segment of the US population deplorable basement dwellers?
My wife is an immigrant by the way. My children are Hispanic. Several of my primary father figures were black men when I lived in a boys' home as a child. I've worked with many immigrants and illegal aliens and I admire these people much more than I admire entitled, self satisfied people that mock our country and the hard working people - deplorable or not, white, black hispanic or otherwise. I know some of their personal stories of sacrifice and hard work just to get to this country that would make most of us blush and then working and sacrificing here to have a very modest life for themselves and their children. These things are important to me. I didn't vote for Trump. I couldn't vote fore either of them. I guess I took the coward's way out but I'm not giving Trump a pass. But at least be consistent otherwise it is just hypocrisy that serves no good purpose. This is the same America that voted for 8 years of Obama. They want a change but now everyone who doesn't want what you want is a racist? Hitler? That is the language of hate and divisiveness. You can cut and paste dictionary definitions to justify it just like some Bible thumper could cut an paste Bible quotes. Justify away but it is two sides of the same coin.

Thank you, Paul. I appreciate hearing your background and can tell you were thoughtful about your decision to cast no vote. I know Hillary speaks out of both sides of her mouth. She makes robotic decisions based on perceived voter support. I simply cannot make a case for her. However, I can tell you that I was willing to have more of the same government in order to block an openly racist, sexist individual to the office of the President of the United States. Yes, our president elect is a racist. There is more evidence of this than with any other public figure.

A large group of voters decided that a chance for change on the coat tails of a racist was an acceptable price to pay. Not surprisingly, the exact demographics that were not attacked by Trump were most willing to overlooked his racism. White america (I am a white, Irish, Catholic) has sent a very strong and clear message to women and minorities. I am embarrassed by that, and I do not look forward to the extreme division it will cause.
But why did he get something like 29% of the Spanish vote which was more than Romney ? My fiancée definitely didn't vote for him but a lot more Spanish did that I thought would

That really is a good point and it is difficult to explain. Regardless, the remaining 71% feel offended, disenfranchised and fear. That is not a good thing.

Not necessarily.

The pew report showed that only 51% of latinos favored Clinton, with 24% favoring Sanders.



Only 14% of latinos, compared to 57% said they were voting Republican. Clearly Trump struck a chord with many Latinos, and he actually got a disproprtionate % of their vote by Latinos registered with a party.

You cannot group all Latinos together. Cubans are vastly different from Mexicans in many demographics, including education, and Latinos often vote independent of what leaders tell them to vote. In 2012 Obama got 95% of the black vote - does that mean blacks didn't like Romney - probably not.

First off, you are talking about a couple os pretty isolated positions:

1) Trump wanting to build a wall to keep out illegal immigrants (which has nothing to do with being racist). His example of illegals coming here to commit crime was a poor rationale, but he did tone down that rhetoric as the campaign wen ton.

2) His comments about halting mass immigration of Muslims until "we can figure out what the hell is going on" did not cast aspersions on all Muslims, but was correctly identifying that nearly all terrorist attacks were done by radical Islamic murderers. He did not rant on endlessly that Muslims in general were terrorists or any other disparaging comments. So the charges of racism were products of the Democratic party and liberal media attempting to demonize Trump and they did a great job.

3) Comments about Trump's lecherous behavior did not even approach the things Bill Clinton has actually verifiably done and been accused of, which is rape and aggravated sexual assault. If the charges against Trump were true, why weren't they raised over his 40 year public career, instead of loaded up as bombshells in a Presidential, This wasn't exactly Bill Cosby, although liberals tried to paint him that way.

Finally, after liberals went off the wall when Trump implied that if he thought the election was rigged, he might challenge the results and not concede, instead they are silent as morons flood the streets to protest Trump's election. they aren't going to accomplish a damned thing, and most of them are so inarticulate that when stopped by News interviewers, they mumble an obscenity and run away. Not a single Democratic Leader, not Obama and not Clinton, has told them to go home and accept that Trump was fairly elected, and to now work to make this country better.


Big difference, they're not protesting the results, at least I hope they're not and I'm still avoiding a lot of the news, but they are protesting the message that this election sends to everyone, from my children, to the rest of the world, all the while reminding the President elect that most folks didn't vote for him and don't agree with him so he'll need to take all opinions into account if he doesn't want the typical first mid term backlash to be even more substantial than usual.


By and large these are not HC supporters, they are the usual clowns who show up at every protest. Professional rabble-rousers so to speak. The election is just their latest excuse to mobilize. Social media is the vehicle that they use to mobilize and to spread their bullshit. Protesting against the new President on 5th Ave in NYC gives their movement maximum exposure. The left leaning media runs with it like wildfire because it sells and because fits their narrative about Trump. These are not legitimate protesters, these are anarchists. They have no actual goal other than to disrupt. Hopefully these pointless protests will become a thing of the past come Jan 1.
 
By and large these are not HC supporters, they are the usual clowns who show up at every protest. Professional rabble-rousers so to speak. The election is just their latest excuse to mobilize. Social media is the vehicle that they use to mobilize and to spread their bullshit. Protesting against the new President on 5th Ave in NYC gives their movement maximum exposure. The left leaning media runs with it like wildfire because it sells and because fits their narrative about Trump. These are not legitimate protesters, these are anarchists. They have no actual goal other than to disrupt. Hopefully these pointless protests will become a thing of the past come Jan 1.

As an Oakland resident, one who lives right across from police headquarters and down the block from city hall, I can tell you the professional rabble-rouser part is 100 percent true. A lot of the people who come and trash my neighborhood aren't even from California, much less Oakland.

And while there will always be those A-holes around, I need to disagree about people not being legitimate protestors, though, at least the ones in my neighborhood. I was at the Oakland rally last night. Got the feeling it was more Bernie supporters than HRC, or at least a split down the middle, and there were a lot of people there. United in hatred for Trump, though, which I am fully behind.

Crowd was 99 percent peaceful and the messages, while angry, were largely peaceful. Didn't like the part at the end, though, where the woman on the flatbed truck with the PA system implied that shit would go down as soon as the kids at the rally were back home, especially since my building has a huge glass facade. Also hated seeing someone try to knock over the TV news camera in front of me. Thought about punching the guy, realized I'm 45 and haven't been in a fight in years, and let the TV crew handle it. They drove north, and that's when I headed south toward home.
 
I didn't vote for Trump but I'm trying to keep an open mind about the next four years. I do find it quite troubling though that Trump appointed Myron Ebell to head up his EPA transition team.....the man is a climate change denier.....if the country goes in the crapper, at least i've got legalized marijuana to self-medicate! ;)
 
these professional protesters organize are using moveon.org , which is funded by George soros who is part of the clinton global initiative. Is this related? Who know but it does make you wonder.
 
By and large these are not HC supporters, they are the usual clowns who show up at every protest. Professional rabble-rousers so to speak. The election is just their latest excuse to mobilize. Social media is the vehicle that they use to mobilize and to spread their bullshit. Protesting against the new President on 5th Ave in NYC gives their movement maximum exposure. The left leaning media runs with it like wildfire because it sells and because fits their narrative about Trump. These are not legitimate protesters, these are anarchists. They have no actual goal other than to disrupt. Hopefully these pointless protests will become a thing of the past come Jan 1.

As an Oakland resident, one who lives right across from police headquarters and down the block from city hall, I can tell you the professional rabble-rouser part is 100 percent true. A lot of the people who come and trash my neighborhood aren't even from California, much less Oakland.

And while there will always be those A-holes around, I need to disagree about people not being legitimate protestors, though, at least the ones in my neighborhood. I was at the Oakland rally last night. Got the feeling it was more Bernie supporters than HRC, or at least a split down the middle, and there were a lot of people there. United in hatred for Trump, though, which I am fully behind.

Crowd was 99 percent peaceful and the messages, while angry, were largely peaceful. Didn't like the part at the end, though, where the woman on the flatbed truck with the PA system implied that shit would go down as soon as the kids at the rally were back home, especially since my building has a huge glass facade. Also hated seeing someone try to knock over the TV news camera in front of me. Thought about punching the guy, realized I'm 45 and haven't been in a fight in years, and let the TV crew handle it. They drove north, and that's when I headed south toward home.

Appreciate your insight from the ground. I live in Manhattan but have steered clear of the protests, so I base my opinion on video and news reports. For the most part, the protesters here do not have a clear message/goal. While they all express a disdain for Trump and the election results, IMO he is simply the latest excuse for them to protest. I have a really hard time believing that most of these protesters voted at all, let alone voted for HC. What these people always need is an excuse to protest. Whether real, exaggerated or completely contrived. Controversial election results give them an excuse.
 
these professional protesters organize are using moveon.org , which is funded by George soros who is part of the clinton global initiative. Is this related? Who know but it does make you wonder.
I heard on the news that all those protesters in NYC were given shake shack certificates and there were lines of students as far as the eye can see at the nye shake shacks today
 
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