Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

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No matter who wins:

Better to light one candle than curse the darkness a thousand times.

Some people see what is and ask why, I dream what can be and ask why not.

Laissez faire capitalism in a bought political environment and dependency maintaining social programming that pacifies the impoverished are unacceptable.
 
So you DO hate then. Just clarifying.

yeah, that's pretty much what I thought; no discussion, no dialogue; just stand behind childish comments and generalities. very intelligent.

I really don't understand the liberal mindset among intelligent people in this country:

a) Marriage equality is a pretty minor subject, and I seriously doubt anyone is going to prioritize reversing it even if they are against it. There are much bigger fish to fry. In fact, most liberals were against it outwardly until Obama had Joe Biden float a trial balloon prior to his coming out for it. Even then he was gravely concerned about black Christian leaders leaving the tent over this issue until they didn't react as harshly as expected.

b) Abortion - the whole notion of abortion being a women's health issue is preposterous, but it was a nice pivot by the Dems about 10 years ago to make Pro Life advocates appear to be against women. Brilliant stuff, and all the wikileaks are showing just how conspiratorial Democrats are on these subjects. The whole notion of rape, incest, and pregnancy among young teens, and legitimate health concerns for women (ectopic pregnancies, etc). Throw them all in a basket, and most RTLers would gladly carve them out to save the millions of unborn children being slaughtered almost gleefully by those seeking more to protect votes than have any legitimate concerns for women.

c) the economy - food stamps and welfare have soared under Obama, a sign that the poorest among us are struggling mightily. Yet, liberals will gladly keep poor people in poverty in order to expand the Democratic voting base by proposing open borders. I think of it this way - every latino skilled and unskilled laborer, every restaurant worker, every latino farm worker could be someone currently unemployed and a lifelong welfare recipient instead of those flying under the radar in off the books jobs paying lower wages than an American would be paid. If you are over 50 and out of work, you are likely still unemployed even after adjusting your resume to accpet a salary far lower than the job your were terminated from. If you are a recent college grad, chances are you are underemployed in a lower paying job than your degree would indicate.

d) Healthcare - I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. Government messing with 17% of our economy as baby boomer are sliding into high demands for healthcare was completely idiotic. Obama knows even less about healthcare than he knows about living in a black community, y'all dig? Now it is collapsing and TV commentators speak of 25% annual increases that could cost families (and small businesses in NY at least) over $30,000 per year per family to insure, a 6500 increase in what would otherwise be discretionary income if that even existed for the middle class. Of course, asshole politicians are exempt from Obamacare, as are wealthy TV announcers. The next group to consider healthcare insurance optional will be middle class families who can't afford premiums.

e) Racial divisiveness - Don't tell me for a second that churning the racial divide isn't a liberal strategy. In multiple incidents, without knowing the facts, Obama immediately made local incidents national headlines for coming out against a Harvard policeman who asked a black Harvard professor for identification when he was having trouble entering his own home. He then uttered the famous, "If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon" without knowing that the picture of a sweet 12 year old was really a 6 foot muscular 18 year old with grills, a suspension from school, and a drug charge - maybe he did know that. In Ferguson, he sent Eric Holder, not to calm the crowds, but to tell them that he too was a victim of racial prejudice, without knowing that the "hands up, don't shoot" motto assigned to the gentle giant was just videotaped robbing a convenience store and threatening the asian store owner, and had attacked a police officer who told him to walk on the sidewalk. Stoking the anti police bias, despite the fact that many police forces (including NYC) are more than 50% minority based, and that many of the officers in conflicts with sometimes armed young black men were black themselves. It's alla game to get black people mad enough to come out and vote for an old rich white lady.

f) If you can't beat em, cheat em. Wikileaks has proven what many of us long suspected - that with Hillary Clinton,EVERYTHING is for sale. Sell 10% of our uranium to the Russians through a private entity that donated to the Clinton foundation? No problem. Will she speak in Morocco? Yes, if the king of morocco donates $12 million to the Clinton Foundation. Fearful of losing the Democratic primary to a 74 year old socialist who they feared couldn't win the general election? Let the DNC cheat for you. On and on and on and on. Anyone who would vote for this cheating, lying scoundrel of a person, is completely out of their minds. What does Hillary have to gain by being President? Everything it seems.

g) Military weakness - Is there any doubt that on a geopolitical basis, the US is significantly disrespected in international communities? Are liberals aware that after promising a 60 day exit from Iraq, it took Obama almost the exact same timeframe estimated by Bush to secure Iraq and transfer security to Iraqi forces - only Obama secured nothing except the explosion of the Junior varsity ISIS, right under his nose. Now Hillary is saying that all options are available to assist in Syria, only after a year of campaigning that there would be no boots on the ground - yup diplomacy works, especially after your administration mocked Romney for stating that Russia was our biggest geopolitical enemy. Doesn't matter, you see for liberals the truth is only an asset when it helps you, and until then you lie through your teeth.

So then really in the things that matter, just where have the liberal Democratic Party advanced the American cause? Don't say the environment, because tightening the screws on American manufacturers without helping to significantly fund the conversion to clean green manufacturing facilities only hastened their exit from the US, putting more Americans out of work. I'm in full agreement for protecting our environment, but a little more intelligence in also protecting our business interests would greatly increase universal support, rather than using the issue to separate Democrats and Republicans.

Please don't reply with the typical "republican party is in shambles" train of thought. I agree if they were just a little more criminal, more deceptive and cunning, and totally didn't give a shit about America, they would be in a better place politically.

This post unequivocally solidifies your position as one of the "ilk", of which you should be damn proud.
 
Spocky,

Won't do a quote to an already long post, but I've heard Bush speak in person twice in the past year. Mixed bag audiences at large conferences. Both times, the general reaction was the same from Democrats and Liberals as Bush explained in an armchair format the decisions he made and why:

General reaction:

1) He is a lot brighter and a lot more personable than the media portrays him.
2) That he loves America and has a deep affection and relationship with the military that protects us - and that it is mutual.
3) That he comes from an incredibly loving and supportive family.
4) That even if every decision that he made was demonized, even among liberals his decisions were understood and some they even agreed with.

Not to say you have to agree with or even like the decisions he made, but it was really enlightening to hear him speak and not through the thick (dare I say iron) curtain of the media portrayal of everything he did

I probably should have only quoted the last paragraph (re: typical "Republican party is in shambles"), as I was trying to help out my progressive friends by trotting out that "no statute of limitations" exclamation for them (although I do LOVE scrolling!). As a result, I can understand how you mislabeled it as a serious retort, although I do recommend checking the batteries on your sarcasm detector, especially when it's confronted with one of my drive-by posts.

For the record, I don't think Bush was a great president, although he's not the worst in my lifetime (or even second worst. Probably not third worst either, now that I think about it). I thought his domestic policies left much to be desired. As far as foreign policy goes, he played the hand he was dealt, and I thought he did the best anyone could have. We needed to get bin Laden, as inaction would have just emboldened the terrorists to strike here again. Going into Iraq was a mistake, but bear in mind they were spitting in the face of UN inspectors. Plus, remember the recent meme of "killing baby Hitler"? I present to you Saddam Hussein, so you cede the moral high ground if you completely dismiss that action. So who knows if not going in would have been the right move, I sure don't. One thing I will say is that people who believed he's stupid have checked their brains at the door - not a lot of stupid Yalies or fighter pilots. The insight I received on W came from my sister's friend, who worked for the Mets in 1999. He asked Bobby V. what he thought of his former boss in Texas. Bobby said he was the guy who would walk into an owners meeting and get all of those egos on the same page. No mean feat if you think about it.
 
Bush's biggest evil was that he was the biggest spender in history in the areas of education, healthcare and the arts. But instead of making the Democrats in high places happy, this embarrassed them. These are sacred cash cows as long as they are problems but solving real issues is not in the game plan. And of course this also angered the fiscal conservatives who considered him a traitor.
 
Spocky,

Won't do a quote to an already long post, but I've heard Bush speak in person twice in the past year. Mixed bag audiences at large conferences. Both times, the general reaction was the same from Democrats and Liberals as Bush explained in an armchair format the decisions he made and why:

General reaction:

1) He is a lot brighter and a lot more personable than the media portrays him.
2) That he loves America and has a deep affection and relationship with the military that protects us - and that it is mutual.
3) That he comes from an incredibly loving and supportive family.
4) That even if every decision that he made was demonized, even among liberals his decisions were understood and some they even agreed with.

Not to say you have to agree with or even like the decisions he made, but it was really enlightening to hear him speak and not through the thick (dare I say iron) curtain of the media portrayal of everything he did
We will never agree on this but Bush never vetoed a bill or even attempted to reign in spending for how long ? 2006 ? That was either a record or close to it even when his party controlled the houses ? Where was the leadership on spending ? Heck his first veto in 06 was on freaking Stem Cell research or something. That's not leadership. That's Laziness and the downfall of republican principles. The republican party as we know it changed for the worse 16 years ago

Even worse and this was from an original Bush supporter ( not member here ) who I used to argue agsint in our R&P section when his articles were published early on and then he finally got religion and came around to the right side. Ironically I used to email with him on a website he was a contributor to a while ago and he is actually a real nice guy http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/the-fiscal-legacy-of-george-w-bush/?_r=0

I might have mentioned this on the board awhile ago but I know someone who was worked on marine 1 for Bush and Obama and Clinton and he knows people in their security detail their kids etc. Bush he loved. He mountain biked with him at his ranch. Bush treated them all like friends. Obama was more standoffish not in snotty way just in polite but have no interest in knowing you way. Bill Clinton was well liked. Biden was well liked even more then Cheney. Obamas kids and Clintons kid were more well liked than the Bush kids. Hillary they all hated with a passion. They despised her and she was nasty to them all
 
Bush's biggest evil was that he was the biggest spender in history in the areas of education, healthcare and the arts. But instead of making the Democrats in high places happy, this embarrassed them. These are sacred cash cows as long as they are problems but solving real issues is not in the game plan. And of course this also angered the fiscal conservatives who considered him a traitor.
That's exactly my problem with him other than the iraq war also
 
So you DO hate then. Just clarifying.

Not sure if you consider me part of Logen's "ilk", but there is plenty of crap that I hate, and a fair amount of people as well. And if that makes me a "hater", I'll wear that title proudly and unapologetically. Just to clarify for you.

Trust me, Monte, if I need to get my finger on the pulse of the angry, old, white, christian male demo I know where to come.

We're talking politics here, why the need to bring race and religion in to it?

Well, because like all atheist liberals, he is afraid to take aim at Judaism and Islam even while mocking the faith of Christians.

Agreed; the other thing, which is hit over the head obvious with the liberal movement, without religion, there is no sense of ethics, morals, right or wrong. It is perfectly ok to subvert facts and realities, outfight lie and deceive, because everything is just a means to an end. And you see the evolution of a movement whose complete lack of morality makes Tricky Dick look like Mother Teresa.

Don't even get me started about Mother Teresa. ;)

I'm not responding because I'm not really interested in debating with you guys. We're all set in our ways and it just gives us all, or at least me, agita so what's the point. The only thing I'll add is if you don't understand the status differences in this country between Christians, Jews and Muslims we can't have a rational conversation on that subject. I don't agree with any of the religions obviously, but they are pretty much distinct socio-economic groups which is why I felt the need to include Christian in my description of the demographic in question. Nothing more untoward about it. As a marketer and one who understands political voting blocks that's all it was, though I guess it could have been delivered with a little less snark.

Sorry, more utter nonsense. You make snide comments about me HATING and then say you don't want to debate? I offered my views, and your agita didn't prevent you from replying with mocking middle school playground replies. Like most liberals you assume your view is the only valid one and everyone else's opinions shouldn't even be listened to never mind considered.
 
All opinions are valid as opinions. I'm pretty sure you think yours are right too, that's what makes them opinions.
 
Is it to late? The FBI suddenly announced that it is reopening its investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails after learning of new documents “that appear to be pertinent to the investigation.”

Wondering when Comey gets granted immunity
 
Is it to late? The FBI suddenly announced that it is reopening its investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails after learning of new documents “that appear to be pertinent to the investigation.”

Wondering when Comey gets granted immunity
just me speculating but I'd think maybe this is serious because if it wasn't I'd think they would have waited till after the election to announce it but they are covering their ass now. Just my guess
 
The FBI is not reexamining its previous findings. It is not questioning its previous legal conclusion that “no reasonable prosecutor” could determine that charges are warranted. Based on the letter, it appears that the FBI will simply provide the same scrutiny to these newly uncovered emails as it previously applied to the emails it already reviewed when it determined that criminal charges are not warranted.

Though the initial narrative to emerge from this new letter — a narrative pushed by Republican House Oversight Chair Jason Chaffetz — is that the FBI has “reopened” the case against Clinton, several reporters did acknowledge on Twitter that this narrative is not true.
 
Sorry just cut and pasted that without comment. If they find something they'll act. There's no indication at this point that they will.
 
An FBI source confirmed that the new emails were discovered during the probe of former Rep. Anthony Weiner’s sexting

E-mails contained on electronic devices seized from Anthony Weiner and his wife, Huma Abedin, led the FBI to re-open its investigation into Hillary.
 
Reports are that they are coming from the investigation into Weiner;s sexting. You can't make this stuff up!
 
An FBI source confirmed that the new emails were discovered during the probe of former Rep. Anthony Weiner’s sexting

E-mails contained on electronic devices seized from Anthony Weiner and his wife, Huma Abedin, led the FBI to re-open its investigation into Hillary.
Going to be a real stretch to involve HRC in Weiner and his weiner.
 
An FBI source confirmed that the new emails were discovered during the probe of former Rep. Anthony Weiner’s sexting

E-mails contained on electronic devices seized from Anthony Weiner and his wife, Huma Abedin, led the FBI to re-open its investigation into Hillary.
Going to be a real stretch to involve HRC in Weiner and his weiner.
Never underestimate the appetites of Carlos Danger!
 
An FBI source confirmed that the new emails were discovered during the probe of former Rep. Anthony Weiner’s sexting

E-mails contained on electronic devices seized from Anthony Weiner and his wife, Huma Abedin, led the FBI to re-open its investigation into Hillary.

So Hillary was sexting with Weiner ? Oh man this is gonna get ugly :)
 
An FBI source confirmed that the new emails were discovered during the probe of former Rep. Anthony Weiner’s sexting

E-mails contained on electronic devices seized from Anthony Weiner and his wife, Huma Abedin, led the FBI to re-open its investigation into Hillary.

So Hillary was sexting with Weiner ? Oh man this is gonna get ugly :)


LMAO.
The sad part is that when Weiner is on TV discussing political stuff, he sounds intelligent and makes a lot of sense to me. Then, you hear about him sexting with a 15 year old girl sending pix of his schlong while his 4 year old son is in bed with him. The man is a nut job but I don't think this will cost Clinton the election Sadly, I think Trump put his foot in his mouth once too often to be taken seriously
 
It would be Christmas in november if this took hillary down once and forever. Too much to ask

More likely fbi is covering their asses and clinton will get off once again.

Have to assume wikileaks is saving the best for last. Wonder if the biggest bombshell is yet to be released.
 
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