Would be a bad first choice. Not saying he shouldn't be on the list, but certainly not before Archie Miller. and Gregg Marshall. These two are the 1st choices & the closest to "sure things" out there. They simply cant in good conscience fail to at least take a swing at these two before looking elsewhere. Personally I think I would prefer Bobby Hurley over Pitino the Younger as well. Although I would rate him above Cluess and Massileo
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Would be a bad first choice. Not saying he shouldn't be on the list, but certainly not before Archie Miller. and Gregg Marshall. These two are the 1st choices & the closest to "sure things" out there. They simply cant in good conscience fail to at least take a swing at these two before looking elsewhere. Personally I think I would prefer Bobby Hurley over Pitino the Younger as well. Although I would rate him above Cluess and Massileo
I disagree. The last ten years you've seen mid-majors get deeper and deeper in the tournament. Good coaches that roll 10 guys. Those schools might not make the tournament every year, but when they do, they play well. Think Xavier, Creighton, Gonzaga, VCU. It's not a bad model to follow considering that SJU should be able to recruit better than those schools.
I'd rather hire a boring coach like Cleuss and be a solid program every year than go through all the turmoil we've had the last three years with Lavin. Somehow he managed to take the #3 recruiting class, with NBA caliber players like Harkless, Sampson, Pointer and Harrison, and not get one win in the BE tournament or NCAA's Throw in all the nonsense of suspensions, non-qualifications, and transfers and we've had a holy mess. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for that approach.
I'd rather hire a boring coach like Cleuss and be a solid program every year than go through all the turmoil we've had the last three years with Lavin. Somehow he managed to take the #3 recruiting class, with NBA caliber players like Harkless, Sampson, Pointer and Harrison, and not get one win in the BE tournament or NCAA's Throw in all the nonsense of suspensions, non-qualifications, and transfers and we've had a holy mess. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for that approach.
we are sju
Active member
I can understand wanting an UPGRADE over Lavin. There are definitely upgrades out there. I just question if SJU can identify who they are and would be willing to commit to those upgrades. Furthermore I also question whether said upgrades would be willing to come here. Finally some of the names being thrown out, I am not sure they are definitely an upgrade. Before we so willing move on just remember who preceded Lavin. Things could be very, very worse!
Speaking of Norm, I can't stress enough how surprised I am how readily some of you are ready to move on from a somewhat successful coach, yet defended an absolutely atrocious coach to the death???? In fact some of the very same posters offering to carry Lavin's bags to the airport were "Normies". Is this a matter of people with personal agendas? And I don't just mean Baldi. His agenda is simple. Seriously what is the deal?
Speaking of Norm, I can't stress enough how surprised I am how readily some of you are ready to move on from a somewhat successful coach, yet defended an absolutely atrocious coach to the death???? In fact some of the very same posters offering to carry Lavin's bags to the airport were "Normies". Is this a matter of people with personal agendas? And I don't just mean Baldi. His agenda is simple. Seriously what is the deal?
It's all about bringing in players, as well. JT3 shook up his coaching staff, and those particular assistants had good contacts and relationships in certain parts of the country, and was rewarded with Isaac Copeland, LJ Peak and Paul White.
Player development here, hasn't been bad. I believe Pointer, Obekpa, and Greene has improved. IMO, it was the big, drop off from our starters to bench. I'm talking about an extremely, significant drop off.
Considering, we were playing with primarily guards, it made the drop off much more extraordinary. Last night's game really showed us how missed Obekpa. There are games where Obekpa hasn't done much, but he's there whenever need him for that particular game, and his presence does make a difference after he's altered or blocked a couple of shots.
Miller may seek another job, if he has success here, but there is a chance he may have a huge ego, and may wanna build and become a legend here. You're probably more right on your summary of Miller, but there is always that chance he may wanna stick around.
southernjohnny2
Member
then you would need to drop to a lower conference, or become BC of the ACC. You want a program coach see Anthony Grant and what happened to him. We are in a major conference and teams are getting top caliber recruits, and you want 3 star kids..can you say basement!! Creighton had an NBA caliber player by the way and if his dad was not coach he wouldn't of gone there
billthetruth
Well-known member
Archie miller going to sju rather than a power 5 team gave me a good laugh.
Come back to earth guys. Sju is not an attractive job anymore as much as it pains me to say such.
Come back to earth guys. Sju is not an attractive job anymore as much as it pains me to say such.
McDermott was a three star recruit who happened to blossom into a NBA player.
I'll take a team of guys like him any day.
A lot of the 5 star recruits are walking hand grenades. I love Harrison but his suspension 2 years ago cost us a likely NCAA bid. Obepka and Jordan blew up on us this year. Look at the nonsense Seaton Hall went through this year. I'm not sure some of these kids are worth it.
I'll take a team of guys like him any day.
A lot of the 5 star recruits are walking hand grenades. I love Harrison but his suspension 2 years ago cost us a likely NCAA bid. Obepka and Jordan blew up on us this year. Look at the nonsense Seaton Hall went through this year. I'm not sure some of these kids are worth it.
Here's may take on options:
choice #1. Archie Miller
choices #2 and #3. either Hurley
choice #4. keep Lavin, although I am beginning to sense as expressed by other that Lavin may not want to re-up with next year's roster.
Her's what should happen in my opinion. St. John's should have a 3d party approach both Miller's agent or father and the agent(s) representing the Hurley brothers or their Dad to inquire whether any of the 3 have any interest in pursuing discussions about accepting the StJohn's job with a salary in the $2M+ range and with a reasonable buyout.
If any of the candidates want to talk then explore what the levels of interest are. If none of the 3 are interested in upgrading salary and conferences then keep Lavin for year 6 unless he wants out.
If Lavin wants out then I would have a conversation with Jamie Dixon's agent about how irrelevant Diixon and his program are becoming in the ACC. Dixon proved he can recruit New York kids and win in the Big East. Sooner or later Pitt$ will put heat on him for not winning in the ACC. StJohn's would give Dixon job security and a place where he has a better chance of making the NCAAs.
The above having been said however my guess is thatStJohn's extends Lavin's contract which I do not believe bodes well for the StJohns mens basketball program. IMO we have witnessed the best that Lavin can do with his impressive recruiting results immediately after he was fired and which results have by and large been lacking since. I don't believe that Lavin today is seen as having the gravitas he once had (just my opinion).
choice #1. Archie Miller
choices #2 and #3. either Hurley
choice #4. keep Lavin, although I am beginning to sense as expressed by other that Lavin may not want to re-up with next year's roster.
Her's what should happen in my opinion. St. John's should have a 3d party approach both Miller's agent or father and the agent(s) representing the Hurley brothers or their Dad to inquire whether any of the 3 have any interest in pursuing discussions about accepting the StJohn's job with a salary in the $2M+ range and with a reasonable buyout.
If any of the candidates want to talk then explore what the levels of interest are. If none of the 3 are interested in upgrading salary and conferences then keep Lavin for year 6 unless he wants out.
If Lavin wants out then I would have a conversation with Jamie Dixon's agent about how irrelevant Diixon and his program are becoming in the ACC. Dixon proved he can recruit New York kids and win in the Big East. Sooner or later Pitt$ will put heat on him for not winning in the ACC. StJohn's would give Dixon job security and a place where he has a better chance of making the NCAAs.
The above having been said however my guess is thatStJohn's extends Lavin's contract which I do not believe bodes well for the StJohns mens basketball program. IMO we have witnessed the best that Lavin can do with his impressive recruiting results immediately after he was fired and which results have by and large been lacking since. I don't believe that Lavin today is seen as having the gravitas he once had (just my opinion).
Here's may take on options:
choice #1. Archie Miller
choices #2 and #3. either Hurley
choice #4. keep Lavin, although I am beginning to sense as expressed by other that Lavin may not want to re-up with next year's roster.
Her's what should happen in my opinion. St. John's should have a 3d party approach both Miller's agent or father and the agent(s) representing the Hurley brothers or their Dad to inquire whether any of the 3 have any interest in pursuing discussions about accepting the StJohn's job with a salary in the $2M+ range and with a reasonable buyout.
If any of the candidates want to talk then explore what the levels of interest are. If none of the 3 are interested in upgrading salary and conferences then keep Lavin for year 6 unless he wants out.
If Lavin wants out then I would have a conversation with Jamie Dixon's agent about how irrelevant Diixon and his program are becoming in the ACC. Dixon proved he can recruit New York kids and win in the Big East. Sooner or later Pitt$ will put heat on him for not winning in the ACC. StJohn's would give Dixon job security and a place where he has a better chance of making the NCAAs.
The above having been said however my guess is thatStJohn's extends Lavin's contract which I do not believe bodes well for the StJohns mens basketball program. IMO we have witnessed the best that Lavin can do with his impressive recruiting results immediately after he was fired and which results have by and large been lacking since. I don't believe that Lavin today is seen as having the gravitas he once had (just my opinion).
choice #1. Archie Miller
choices #2 and #3. either Hurley
choice #4. keep Lavin, although I am beginning to sense as expressed by other that Lavin may not want to re-up with next year's roster.
Her's what should happen in my opinion. St. John's should have a 3d party approach both Miller's agent or father and the agent(s) representing the Hurley brothers or their Dad to inquire whether any of the 3 have any interest in pursuing discussions about accepting the StJohn's job with a salary in the $2M+ range and with a reasonable buyout.
If any of the candidates want to talk then explore what the levels of interest are. If none of the 3 are interested in upgrading salary and conferences then keep Lavin for year 6 unless he wants out.
If Lavin wants out then I would have a conversation with Jamie Dixon's agent about how irrelevant Diixon and his program are becoming in the ACC. Dixon proved he can recruit New York kids and win in the Big East. Sooner or later Pitt$ will put heat on him for not winning in the ACC. StJohn's would give Dixon job security and a place where he has a better chance of making the NCAAs.
The above having been said however my guess is thatStJohn's extends Lavin's contract which I do not believe bodes well for the StJohns mens basketball program. IMO we have witnessed the best that Lavin can do with his impressive recruiting results immediately after he was fired and which results have by and large been lacking since. I don't believe that Lavin today is seen as having the gravitas he once had (just my opinion).
we are sju
Active member
I loved watching BYU. Put that guy on the list
billthetruth
Well-known member
Jaime dixon makes lavin look like john wooden from strategy perspective. That is what you were working on during your hiatus. Back to drawing board. You are more lost than you think lavin is
southernjohnny2
Member
Duke had a player this year that was raping women for two years. Duke only has 8 scholarship kids on the roster, stuff happens. You cannot be in a major conference with mid major talent and expect to make the dance. And you never know how the coach from a mid major will fare in the majors, its a big risk. We know what we get with Lavin, and if we can shake up his staff we will be fine. Kids want to play for him. Top 50 kids want to play for him, and have. We cannot say the same about Cluess, Hurley, Archie, or any other mid major coach..couple of years ago Anthony Grant was a cant miss young coach, and he was just fired. You make a mistake with a hire like that, you will wait atleast a decade before you are back
southernjohnny2
Member
Amaker didn't dance with Seton Hall or Michigan so I will pass on him, plus he got in trouble with Mich. Howland lost his last team at UCLA and had to kick a kid off the team that was crazy. Hurley hasn't won a thing, Miller not coming here so move on....Its simple either Lavin or someone with a much better resume
Yes, we do know what we get with Lavin. Mediocrity! and a guy who can no longer recruit top-50 talent because he can no longer sell them being a part of building something special, which is how he was able to pull in that first highly rated class.
The guy cant coach and now he cant recruit on an elite level because no one buys that he is on his way to awaking a "sleeping giant" anymore. Time to move on
we are sju
Active member
When I was arguing with some of you that Norm sucked, I explained my vey fair expectations. Make the tourney every couple of years and I am on board. Man of my word. I have no problems having Lavin back.
And if not, thanks for being better than Norm, Steve!!!
And if not, thanks for being better than Norm, Steve!!!
