Next Coach?
- Thread starter Knight
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I think what disappoints me most is the recruiting. We wasted some good talent by not building around it. I guess one could say he had a plan (Harkless, Sampson, Thomas, etc.), but in the end he never adjusted and now it doesn't matter (read Vacarro in today's NY Post:http://nypost.com/2015/03/21/for-st-johns-heartbreak-gives-way-to-questioning-lavins-future/).
Steve Lavin seems to be a good man and he did represent the school well. However, from a basketball perspective, I can't forgive him for our current roster.
When last night's game clock expired, a devastating talent drain ensued. If CO and RJ stay, and Sampson honors his verbal, we will struggle. If one or more are not in Queens next year, we will be DePaul. That's NOT what we signed up for with Lavin. We were supposed to get lousy coached games, terrible time-outs and ridiculous post-games quotes, but we were also supposed to have a talented roster.
I think there is a strong chance he walks away. I do not know what our school will do, I honestly have no sense. Some days I think they have a plan and other days I don't. I sincerely hope they have been planning and are ready to be decisive and swift, either way.
Steve Lavin seems to be a good man and he did represent the school well. However, from a basketball perspective, I can't forgive him for our current roster.
When last night's game clock expired, a devastating talent drain ensued. If CO and RJ stay, and Sampson honors his verbal, we will struggle. If one or more are not in Queens next year, we will be DePaul. That's NOT what we signed up for with Lavin. We were supposed to get lousy coached games, terrible time-outs and ridiculous post-games quotes, but we were also supposed to have a talented roster.
I think there is a strong chance he walks away. I do not know what our school will do, I honestly have no sense. Some days I think they have a plan and other days I don't. I sincerely hope they have been planning and are ready to be decisive and swift, either way.
Get it done one way or another and allow whoever is coaching next year to go after transfers or jucos.
southernjohnny2
Member
We need to all Wake up..We are not Duke, UNC, Or Kentucky!! When was the last time UNC took a JC transfer? Lavin took a shot, yeah in order to jump start a dead program you need to take shots.He did what he should of done. I hate the outcome, but it is what it is..How many scholarship players are on Duke's roster? clue we have more on our roster. We can all dream about a Hurley(who haven't won anything to talk about, or Archie, who hasn't won anything either) or we can Wake up. This program had a plan, Lavin took the shot, and it didn't work out. But he did recruit the number 3 class, and has two kids he recruited in the NBA. There may be another going from this team. You win with NBA players, How many did Danny Hurley have in the NBA? Bobby Hurley? or Archie? If we are gonna make a change it should only be for a better coach, who is out there?? Howland? we all saw how that ended in UCLA
I'm in agreement that Lavin needs to go. The lack of recruiting the past two years as been inexcusable. He really failed this group of seniors by not having any viable bench. Couple that with his in game coaching and you have a recipe for failure.
I think as a program we have to stop recruiting as if we're a one and done school. Presuming that Lavin is let go, whoever comes in next (I'd hire Cleuss) needs to recruit to stability. Smaller schools with less cache and visibility do it and are consistent winners.
Ideally you'd like to have a coach who can recruit and coach but I'd take someone who can at least do either well. Unfortunately Lavin has proved that he's not particularly good at either.
I think as a program we have to stop recruiting as if we're a one and done school. Presuming that Lavin is let go, whoever comes in next (I'd hire Cleuss) needs to recruit to stability. Smaller schools with less cache and visibility do it and are consistent winners.
Ideally you'd like to have a coach who can recruit and coach but I'd take someone who can at least do either well. Unfortunately Lavin has proved that he's not particularly good at either.
southernjohnny2
Member
You don't win in the big leagues div 1 without NBA caliber players...Cluess would be like a CYO coach at this level.. We would be basement dwellers...The BC of the ACC
Why? He can actually coach, he's been tied to the area for years, and he's an alumnus. I think with the school's name recognition and the Big East as a selling point, he would be very successful here.
Howland? Not another UCLA retread. Miller or the Hurley brothers? What exactly do they have on their resumes that give the impression that they can build a sustainable program? Billy Donavan is not coming here. He's built himself an empire down at Florida. Cleuss seems like a good choice.
I agree about not recruiting the 1 and done players. As mentioned we are not Duke. It takes a lot of time and energy and they have to be replaced. We all would have liked to have Briscoe here next year , but Lavin spent so much time and energy trying to get him and there is always a Kentucky or Duke after him. . I think he should have spent his time going after 3 and 4 star recruits, balancing out the roster We need to have appropriate depth at all positions and to reload every year not rebuild. We should have had some quality BE calibre players on the bench that can step into the starting lineup next year. Even looking at Lavins recruiting for next year, our commitments are from all SGs. If Sheed leaves which is very possible ,we not only need a PG but also a back up. And you don't want our backups to be mid major calibre players . Of course SJU had a catch 22. Had to see how the season played out. But ,the uncertainty of Lavin not returning may have affected recruiting. That said, there was no excuse for the 2014 fiasco. Too many JDR s and walk-ons on the bench.
As we should know more than any other fan base, there is a lot of risk in changing coaches. It usually does not work out - see BC and Georgia Tech for recent examples. The hired solid, if not excellent, up and coming coaches.
The casual fan and the opposing fans used to view this program as a loser program. Now we have a presence again.
I'm hoping the school and Lavin reach an agreement for a two or three year extension with incentives based on on the court and off the court measures that would pay him well if the Program progresses and succeeds. If he fails, he gets a one year buy out and we make a change in two or three years.
I don't give a crap about posters that are offended because of his personality or that their friends don't have access to the staff or for the few that jump ship after each loss. There's too much of that on this board.
We have had too much change these past 15 years. Change usually hurts in this sport.
The casual fan and the opposing fans used to view this program as a loser program. Now we have a presence again.
I'm hoping the school and Lavin reach an agreement for a two or three year extension with incentives based on on the court and off the court measures that would pay him well if the Program progresses and succeeds. If he fails, he gets a one year buy out and we make a change in two or three years.
I don't give a crap about posters that are offended because of his personality or that their friends don't have access to the staff or for the few that jump ship after each loss. There's too much of that on this board.
We have had too much change these past 15 years. Change usually hurts in this sport.
southernjohnny2
Member
oh I don't want Howland, he lost that team and got himself removed from UCLA. I don't think Cluess will be able to recruit potential NBA caliber players. Look at the teams that will be in the sweet 16 or elite 8, they will all have some NBA type players. Look at the great programs they always send kids to the NBA. So either we are an elite program and move that way, or move down to a mid major and hire a boring coach like Cluess. And for the record depending on NYC talent to be a top dog in the big east well....those days are over. there isn't the depth of talent in NYC anymore. The NYC studs will take the paycheck and head to warmer climates
As, Beast and I talked last night.... "You better bring in someone who can recruit nationally."
IMO, I believe Greg Marshall, Archie Miller, and Ben Howland would be able to "hit the ground running," per se', when it comes to bringing in high-caliber recruits outside of NYC.
Howland isn't a "retread," IMO. I think he somewhat got a raw deal at UCLA. Those 3 would be first on my list, with Marshall being #1, and Miller and Howland being 2A and 2B, respectively.
High-level recruits will still play for St. John's, but it's gonna take a certain type (similar to Lavin) to bring 'em here. I believe those coaches I've mentioned will be able to seize those types.
southernjohnny2
Member
I was hoping you meant Ricky Riccardo? but no thanks to Rick Pitino jr..what exactly has he won? sounds like a Norm Roberts era all over again
I think Mike has it right. Cleuss, while not the most sexy choice would build a program around 4 year players, recruit enough to create his system and stop the nonsense of the "5 star athlete" mentality. The program can be revived with a guy who is here for the long term, implements his system and recruits to it. Cleuss has been successful on every level, and I think he would be here too.
That said, I don't have a problem with taking a run at the Hurley boys. I am not a Howland fan.
That said, I don't have a problem with taking a run at the Hurley boys. I am not a Howland fan.
basketballjones
Well-known member
If the administration keeps Lav, which I doubt will happen now, they have to replace assistants with with better player development coach and someone who can teach an offensive philosophy. Lavin seems to have no interest or understanding of how to get a team to move the ball with a purpose. How many times do we have to hear color analysts say, " St John's doesn't seem to know what they want to do out there", or some similar comments. At least with Cluess the team will score points and play an exciting style. I'm all for the Hurleys but I think they'll both leave at the first sign of success. Greg Marshall and Archie are good coaches but I can't see why either would come here. Archie would leave at the first sign of success too. If we can live with that then why not hire one of the Hurleys?
If Lavin and SJU part ways as many speculate then I would agree that this school has to spend more money than Lavin cost and bring in a big name with a track record that reduces risk. They can't take a risk on a coach from Manhattan or Iona. It would preferably be someone who coached at one of the Major conferences - not even an A 10 guy.