Next Coach?

[Jack Williams]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

I'm not predicting anything but with the seniors leaving it is clear there is a lot of rebuilding to done. I don't know what the roster will look like but the 2015 class so far has left a lot to be a desired. Which is why i said a good tournament run could help. I'm pretty neutral on the Lavin thing, I understand why people like him and understand why people don't. But you seem to be in disbelief that some fans are frustrated, when there are a lot of reasons to be

Nah... I'm over the disbelief since no one can obviously answer the question I've posed.. It just solidifies my stance on how well of a job SL has done in a short period of time. Forget the fact if we still had the 2 players that left for the NBA...Generally speaking the people that don't like him is because of where he chooses to dine, what he chooses to wear and how he chooses to style his hair. If they looked at the body of work they would realize what he has done with a doormat of a program that had no relevance for the last decade. The program has gotten better each year, that's what you strive for. A couple of Jucos/transfers and one or 2 more top 100 guys with CO Rysheed and Amar returning isn't a bad thing. Especially if the guys he brings in have some decent bball iq... That's not a rebuilding year in my opinion. We could def be more than competitive

You say we get better every year but with next year looking like it could be a major step back that's why there is some dissapointment. Hope you are right tho

 

[RedStormRising]

@wallyball: Masterful coaching job by @ISUMayor32 in 2nd half. Attacked mismatches got control of the game. #Big12Tournament Champs @CycloneMBB

@JonRothstein: Iowa State continues to cement its place as a national program. Cyclones have now won back-to-back Big 12 Tournament titles. Amazing feat.

Is there an implication here that the Iowa State coach could be a candidate?
Didn't think so.
When Diallo commits to them let's revisit then.

I think we'd be better off hoping that the Mayor goes pro. Maybe that would sway Diallo in our favor.

 

[rawdognyc]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

I'm not predicting anything but with the seniors leaving it is clear there is a lot of rebuilding to done. I don't know what the roster will look like but the 2015 class so far has left a lot to be a desired. Which is why i said a good tournament run could help. I'm pretty neutral on the Lavin thing, I understand why people like him and understand why people don't. But you seem to be in disbelief that some fans are frustrated, when there are a lot of reasons to be

Nah... I'm over the disbelief since no one can obviously answer the question I've posed.. It just solidifies my stance on how well of a job SL has done in a short period of time. Forget the fact if we still had the 2 players that left for the NBA...Generally speaking the people that don't like him is because of where he chooses to dine, what he chooses to wear and how he chooses to style his hair. If they looked at the body of work they would realize what he has done with a doormat of a program that had no relevance for the last decade. The program has gotten better each year, that's what you strive for. A couple of Jucos/transfers and one or 2 more top 100 guys with CO Rysheed and Amar returning isn't a bad thing. Especially if the guys he brings in have some decent bball iq... That's not a rebuilding year in my opinion. We could def be more than competitive

You say we get better every year but with next year looking like it could be a major step back that's why there is some dissapointment. Hope you are right tho

My point is, who really knows? I just try to stay positive and hope the right pieces are brought in to let us be competitive. We'll worry about all that after the season. Stoked for tomorrow night!

 

[L J S A]

@wallyball: Masterful coaching job by @ISUMayor32 in 2nd half. Attacked mismatches got control of the game. #Big12Tournament Champs @CycloneMBB

@JonRothstein: Iowa State continues to cement its place as a national program. Cyclones have now won back-to-back Big 12 Tournament titles. Amazing feat.

Is there an implication here that the Iowa State coach could be a candidate?
Didn't think so.
When Diallo commits to them let's revisit then.

I think we'd be better off hoping that the Mayor goes pro. Maybe that would sway Diallo in our favor.

He's good for the college game, so I hope he stays. I've probably posted this before, but if I'm Kentucky and Cal split for some reason, Fred is probably the first guy I call.

 

[Class of 72]

After sitting through the semifinals last night, it's clear that

1) Nova is very well coached
2) Georgetown is very well coached - they didn't lose, they ran out of clock, and Xavier is thankful for that.
3) Providence is very well coached.

These are coaches that rally their guys to be patient and intense even when losing. The Providence team stood toe to toe with Nova, and helped by a phantom foul, Nova was likely to escape with a win. Couldn't see us at full strength doing the same. The same goes for Georgetown's roaring comeback as a flagrant 2 where they dominated action thereafter.

And as mentioned Lavin is 5 and 3 against those coaches.

You can cite all the stats out of context you want; all I know is again I am watching other teams play deep into the BE tournament while we were not even remotely competitive on our home court against a team we had beaten twice. Lose, OK, no disgrace in losing to Providence at all, but not showing up, in the last BE tournament for 4 seniors who have never won a game in the tourney? Horrible.
The program continues to reek of instability with another "benching" as it were of Jordan, just when it seemed he was turning the corner. And oh yeah, even if we get some of the recruits we are earmarking extremely late in this years cycle we are still essentially starting over 5 years into Lavin's regime. And if we don't get those recruits, well, I don't want to see it at all but I'm sure you guys will be able to put a positive spin on it regardless; me, not so much.
I understand Louie was far from the greatest coach in history but I will take a blue collar team that competes their tails off every game over what I have seen over the last 5 years any day. And yes, I do know Lavin's record is light years better than Norms, but it still falls woefully short of wwhat I was expecting out of him.

Agree with all except the last clause beginning with "but". We have gotten exactly the same Lavin that you saw at UCLA, just without the same players.

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

The only reason I was against hiring Steve Lavin was not because of his UCLA record (we wish) but because he had been away from coaching for too many years for my comfort. He knew that was a handicap and hired Keady as a tutor.
But Lavin spent 7 years at UCLA as a young head coach who had always been an assistant and you must have read too many blogs from disgruntled UCLA fans that were smarting from his only losing year there. The only similarity is he got lazy on the recruiting trail in his last 2 years just like here at St. John's but his record? We should only wish:

1996–97 UCLA 24–8 15–3 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1997–98 UCLA 24–9 12–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1998–99 UCLA 22–9 12–6 3rd NCAA First Round
1999–00 UCLA 21–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2000–01 UCLA 23–9 14–4 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2001–02 UCLA 21–12 11–7 6th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002–03 UCLA 10–19 6–12 T–6th

Please stop regurgitating the UCLA record/disgruntled fan/unrealistic expectation defense. The fact is that he could not get past the sweet sixteen(except for his first year with Harrick's kids-sound familiar?) in spite of the fact that he had the most talented teams in the country. His teams played with the same kind of inconsistency that we've seen here. The ship was sinking when he was let go. I won't get in to all the other personal crap that I know. All I can tell you is that his dismissal was well deserved.

Oh Monte, we are not nor ever been UCLA so for you to brush aside 5 sweet 16's in his six years at UCLA is comical. As for personal "crap" I didn't know you dated Steve before Mary but please pm me the juicy details.
For reference our benchmark Hall of Fame coach took 24 years to get 5 sweet 16's. My guess is he would surpass Lou in sweet 16's if he spent another 19 years at St. John's but that would be "unrealistic".

 

[jr49]

I know some don't love Cluess, but he puts teams out there that can really score consistently every year. He also gets a lot of recruiting gems who can play. He's one of the few local guys that really wants to stay here for the long haul and would have a lot of recruiting success, even in "down" years grabbing talent. He'd have a heck of a lot more resources at SJU as well.

I wanted to see if he could hold up at the D1 level and he more than has with a record of 57-19. The guy is successful everywhere. Cluess lives 10 minutes from SJU. I don't see a more logical choice if we didn't want to lose a step and are facing a big rebuilding situation.

Kinda like an offensive minded Bo Ryan. Bo did know to open it up some when he got that skinny little PG that could carry a team.

 

[Mean Gene]

After sitting through the semifinals last night, it's clear that

1) Nova is very well coached
2) Georgetown is very well coached - they didn't lose, they ran out of clock, and Xavier is thankful for that.
3) Providence is very well coached.

These are coaches that rally their guys to be patient and intense even when losing. The Providence team stood toe to toe with Nova, and helped by a phantom foul, Nova was likely to escape with a win. Couldn't see us at full strength doing the same. The same goes for Georgetown's roaring comeback as a flagrant 2 where they dominated action thereafter.

And as mentioned Lavin is 5 and 3 against those coaches.

You can cite all the stats out of context you want; all I know is again I am watching other teams play deep into the BE tournament while we were not even remotely competitive on our home court against a team we had beaten twice. Lose, OK, no disgrace in losing to Providence at all, but not showing up, in the last BE tournament for 4 seniors who have never won a game in the tourney? Horrible.
The program continues to reek of instability with another "benching" as it were of Jordan, just when it seemed he was turning the corner. And oh yeah, even if we get some of the recruits we are earmarking extremely late in this years cycle we are still essentially starting over 5 years into Lavin's regime. And if we don't get those recruits, well, I don't want to see it at all but I'm sure you guys will be able to put a positive spin on it regardless; me, not so much.
I understand Louie was far from the greatest coach in history but I will take a blue collar team that competes their tails off every game over what I have seen over the last 5 years any day. And yes, I do know Lavin's record is light years better than Norms, but it still falls woefully short of wwhat I was expecting out of him.

Agree with all except the last clause beginning with "but". We have gotten exactly the same Lavin that you saw at UCLA, just without the same players.

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

The only reason I was against hiring Steve Lavin was not because of his UCLA record (we wish) but because he had been away from coaching for too many years for my comfort. He knew that was a handicap and hired Keady as a tutor.
But Lavin spent 7 years at UCLA as a young head coach who had always been an assistant and you must have read too many blogs from disgruntled UCLA fans that were smarting from his only losing year there. The only similarity is he got lazy on the recruiting trail in his last 2 years just like here at St. John's but his record? We should only wish:

1996–97 UCLA 24–8 15–3 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1997–98 UCLA 24–9 12–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1998–99 UCLA 22–9 12–6 3rd NCAA First Round
1999–00 UCLA 21–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2000–01 UCLA 23–9 14–4 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2001–02 UCLA 21–12 11–7 6th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002–03 UCLA 10–19 6–12 T–6th

Please stop regurgitating the UCLA record/disgruntled fan/unrealistic expectation defense. The fact is that he could not get past the sweet sixteen(except for his first year with Harrick's kids-sound familiar?) in spite of the fact that he had the most talented teams in the country. His teams played with the same kind of inconsistency that we've seen here. The ship was sinking when he was let go. I won't get in to all the other personal crap that I know. All I can tell you is that his dismissal was well deserved.

Oh Monte, we are not nor ever been UCLA so for you to brush aside 5 sweet 16's in his six years at UCLA is comical. As for personal "crap" I didn't know you dated Steve before Mary but please pm me the juicy details.
For reference our benchmark Hall of Fame coach took 24 years to get 5 sweet 16's. My guess is he would surpass Lou in sweet 16's if he spent another 19 years at St. John's but that would be "unrealistic".

I think Lavin would have one Sweet Sixteen here already if DJ Kennedy didn't get hurt. I will say it again, considering the Lack of depth on this team and the injuries and personal issues that Lavin had to deal with this year, it's a wonder the he won 21 games with this team. He did a good job this year to get them to the NCAA's. The issues with this season is that the reason for the lack of depth is because he basically took a whole recruiting year off. That's on Lavin. Also, as I posted before, if Harkless, Sampson and Garrett didn't leave. with there size and ability, we would be a top ten team this year. But Lavin totally screwed the program with that 2014 recruiting class. But, he did a good job with what he had to deal with this year.

 

[stjohnnie75]

I think Lavin would have one Sweet Sixteen here already if DJ Kennedy didn't get hurt. I will say it again, considering the Lack of depth on this team and the injuries and personal issues that Lavin had to deal with this year, it's a wonder the he won 21 games with this team. He did a good job this year to get them to the NCAA's. The issues with this season is that the reason for the lack of depth is because he basically took a whole recruiting year off. That's on Lavin. Also, as I posted before, if Harkless, Sampson and Garrett didn't leave. with there size and ability, we would be a top ten team this year. But Lavin totally screwed the program with that 2014 recruiting class. But, he did a good job with what he had to deal with this year.

Gathers not coming after his verbal also hurt the building of a more stable roster.

If Lavin can't get Diallo I would much rather him start rebuilding this roster with some JUCOs or 5th year guys, not all freshmen. The Roster should have been balanced by now.

 

[redfan259999888]

Programs don't recruit/get recruits. Coaches get recruits.

Coaches also have to coach said recruits, of course, but need to get them on the floor first.

Agreed. My comments were directed at those who keeping saying how hard it is to recruit to our school and to our city. To that I say "bullcrap!"

Yeah, that's those who has their head up Lavins ass, who believes that he's the only one that can recruit nationally at SJU. It is 100% BS.

Hey, I don't want to rag on you, because I don't mind occasional mild profanity, especially if the aftermath of a horrible loss. Then it's almost cathartic to get it all out of our systems, like kicking the dog. But can you try to tone it down in casual postings? Thanks

Well that's what it seem to me, when people say: "Oh we need Lavin, who else can we get to recruit the way he has?" Well lets look at these 2 years.
Last year he got no one who plays this year, Adonis and Keith are no shows. This year only one 4 star player.

So what is so special about Lavins great recruiting? Yes, we got 3 weeks to see who else comes, but so far to date just 3 SG. Not one big man yet? I don't get it.

 

[1and1sju]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

Do you pick the winning lotto numbers every day of the wewk? Because that's what would need to happen for us to be competitive next year.
we'd have to land diallo, land at least one of the euros, Jordan would return, and Obekpa would need to return.
Oh yea, and Adonis would probably need to be elidgible(still site center on that subject).

All of our contemporaries have done the big recruiting they needed to for next season. We knew most of our roster would be turned over and we have 1 high quality sg, and question marks after that. And none of our current bench players look capable of playing a meaningful role, with the possible exception of amir. And even he is highly questionable.

It's true that we don't know what the roster will look like next season, but look how much would have to go right? It's this type of inconsistency and flying by the seat of his pants that worries many of us.

 

[austour]

Programs don't recruit/get recruits. Coaches get recruits.

Coaches also have to coach said recruits, of course, but need to get them on the floor first.

Agreed. My comments were directed at those who keeping saying how hard it is to recruit to our school and to our city. To that I say "bullcrap!"

Yeah, that's those who has their head up Lavins ass, who believes that he's the only one that can recruit nationally at SJU. It is 100% BS.

Hey, I don't want to rag on you, because I don't mind occasional mild profanity, especially if the aftermath of a horrible loss. Then it's almost cathartic to get it all out of our systems, like kicking the dog. But can you try to tone it down in casual postings? Thanks

Well that's what it seem to me, when people say: "Oh we need Lavin, who else can we get to recruit the way he has?" Well lets look at these 2 years.
Last year he got no one who plays this year, Adonis and Keith are no shows. This year only one 4 star player.

So what is so special about Lavins great recruiting? Yes, we got 3 weeks to see who else comes, but so far to date just 3 SG. Not one big man yet? I don't get it.

That's a good point, in a way. Agree with the three week comment. If he pulls some rabbits by mid April then he has one bad year and you can't question his recruiting.

I just think the mid major guys like Mass and Cluess have a ceiling around Lav's bad years. Hurley name might help one of the bros a little above that. Best idea I've heard is Howland if he can hire Matt A or Slice to come with him.

 

[rawdognyc]

Programs don't recruit/get recruits. Coaches get recruits.

Coaches also have to coach said recruits, of course, but need to get them on the floor first.

Agreed. My comments were directed at those who keeping saying how hard it is to recruit to our school and to our city. To that I say "bullcrap!"

Yeah, that's those who has their head up Lavins ass, who believes that he's the only one that can recruit nationally at SJU. It is 100% BS.

Hey, I don't want to rag on you, because I don't mind occasional mild profanity, especially if the aftermath of a horrible loss. Then it's almost cathartic to get it all out of our systems, like kicking the dog. But can you try to tone it down in casual postings? Thanks

Well that's what it seem to me, when people say: "Oh we need Lavin, who else can we get to recruit the way he has?" Well lets look at these 2 years.
Last year he got no one who plays this year, Adonis and Keith are no shows. This year only one 4 star player.

So what is so special about Lavins great recruiting? Yes, we got 3 weeks to see who else comes, but so far to date just 3 SG. Not one big man yet? I don't get it.

That's a good point, in a way. Agree with the three week comment. If he pulls some rabbits by mid April then he has one bad year and you can't question his recruiting.

I just think the mid major guys like Mass and Cluess have a ceiling around Lav's bad years. Hurley name might help one of the bros a little above that. Best idea I've heard is Howland if he can hire Matt A or Slice to come with him.

That's something i could def live with if they got rid of Lavin. A coach like Howland with a recruiter like Rohrssen... I'm not sold on the young and comers...granted looking at how Jay Wright turned out may make me rethink things

 

[Andrew]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

I'm not predicting anything but with the seniors leaving it is clear there is a lot of rebuilding to done. I don't know what the roster will look like but the 2015 class so far has left a lot to be a desired. Which is why i said a good tournament run could help. I'm pretty neutral on the Lavin thing, I understand why people like him and understand why people don't. But you seem to be in disbelief that some fans are frustrated, when there are a lot of reasons to be

Nah... I'm over the disbelief since no one can obviously answer the question I've posed.. It just solidifies my stance on how well of a job SL has done in a short period of time. Forget the fact if we still had the 2 players that left for the NBA...Generally speaking the people that don't like him is because of where he chooses to dine, what he chooses to wear and how he chooses to style his hair. If they looked at the body of work they would realize what he has done with a doormat of a program that had no relevance for the last decade. The program has gotten better each year, that's what you strive for. A couple of Jucos/transfers and one or 2 more top 100 guys with CO Rysheed and Amar returning isn't a bad thing. Especially if the guys he brings in have some decent bball iq... That's not a rebuilding year in my opinion. We could def be more than competitive

We are not getting more than 1 more top 100 type guy and Amar has done absolutely nothing this year to prove he can compete with the better or average players next year. We will be a middle of the pack team at best that will not be in play for the NCAA's.

 

[Class of 72]

I have prepared Lavin's resignation letter. I just modeled it after Oliver Purnell's resignation letter.

"It is my best interest and my family's best interest to resign as head coach of the St. John's  basketball program,". "We made progress here and improved with the talent and character of our student-athletes. St. John's  provided complete support and is fully committed to its basketball program with its budget, the on-campus facilities and in the future with their commitment to the Big East. I would like to personally thank the University community, fans and student body for their support and thank the student-athletes for their efforts over the last five years."

I sent it to the Maven for proof reading but he wanted to add 500 hail marys, 200 our fathers and excommunication from the Catholic Church. I thought that would be over the top.
I also heard a secret search reached out to over 20 coaches and they all passed.
Ironically Oliver Purnell is now the leading candidate for his familiarity with Vincention schools.
His first recommendation was to change our nickname to the Red Demons.

 

[JohnnyFan]

I have prepared Lavin's resignation letter. I just modeled it after Oliver Purnell's resignation letter.

"It is my best interest and my family's best interest to resign as head coach of the St. John's  basketball program,". "We made progress here and improved with the talent and character of our student-athletes. St. John's  provided complete support and is fully committed to its basketball program with its budget, the on-campus facilities and in the future with their commitment to the Big East. I would like to personally thank the University community, fans and student body for their support and thank the student-athletes for their efforts over the last five years."

I sent it to the Maven for proof reading but he wanted to add 500 hail marys, 200 our fathers and excommunication from the Catholic Church. I thought that would be over the top.
I also heard a secret search reached out to over 20 coaches and they all passed.
Ironically Oliver Purnell is now the leading candidate for his familiarity with Vincention schools.
His first recommendation was to change our nickname to the Red Demons.

I do think it is possible he resigns.

 

[monte]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

I'm not predicting anything but with the seniors leaving it is clear there is a lot of rebuilding to done. I don't know what the roster will look like but the 2015 class so far has left a lot to be a desired. Which is why i said a good tournament run could help. I'm pretty neutral on the Lavin thing, I understand why people like him and understand why people don't. But you seem to be in disbelief that some fans are frustrated, when there are a lot of reasons to be

Nah... I'm over the disbelief since no one can obviously answer the question I've posed.. It just solidifies my stance on how well of a job SL has done in a short period of time. Forget the fact if we still had the 2 players that left for the NBA...Generally speaking the people that don't like him is because of where he chooses to dine, what he chooses to wear and how he chooses to style his hair. If they looked at the body of work they would realize what he has done with a doormat of a program that had no relevance for the last decade. The program has gotten better each year, that's what you strive for. A couple of Jucos/transfers and one or 2 more top 100 guys with CO Rysheed and Amar returning isn't a bad thing. Especially if the guys he brings in have some decent bball iq... That's not a rebuilding year in my opinion. We could def be more than competitive

We are not getting more than 1 more top 100 type guy and Amar has done absolutely nothing this year to prove he can compete with the better or average players next year. We will be a middle of the pack team at best that will not be in play for the NCAA's.

I don't think you're being fair to the kid Andrew. Face it, we haven't had a kid with the skills sets and athleticism that Amar possesses since Marco and Max skipped town.

 

[redfan259999888]

I'm hoping Lavin gets extended because I think it is the best option at this time and at my age ( class of 62 ) I don't look forward to a year or two of total rebuilding.
But if the option is a new coach why isn't Tommy Amaker's name ever mentioned?

haha at "I'm hoping Lavin gets extended because I think it is the best option at this time and at my age ( class of 62 ) I don't look forward to a year or two of total rebuilding."

Dude are you serious? We got 4 seniors leave, there's a chance that Rysheed might leave (I'm betting on Chris coming back.).Anyway you look at it, we are rebuilding for next year, so what's the difference?

 

[Andrew]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

I'm not predicting anything but with the seniors leaving it is clear there is a lot of rebuilding to done. I don't know what the roster will look like but the 2015 class so far has left a lot to be a desired. Which is why i said a good tournament run could help. I'm pretty neutral on the Lavin thing, I understand why people like him and understand why people don't. But you seem to be in disbelief that some fans are frustrated, when there are a lot of reasons to be

Nah... I'm over the disbelief since no one can obviously answer the question I've posed.. It just solidifies my stance on how well of a job SL has done in a short period of time. Forget the fact if we still had the 2 players that left for the NBA...Generally speaking the people that don't like him is because of where he chooses to dine, what he chooses to wear and how he chooses to style his hair. If they looked at the body of work they would realize what he has done with a doormat of a program that had no relevance for the last decade. The program has gotten better each year, that's what you strive for. A couple of Jucos/transfers and one or 2 more top 100 guys with CO Rysheed and Amar returning isn't a bad thing. Especially if the guys he brings in have some decent bball iq... That's not a rebuilding year in my opinion. We could def be more than competitive

We are not getting more than 1 more top 100 type guy and Amar has done absolutely nothing this year to prove he can compete with the better or average players next year. We will be a middle of the pack team at best that will not be in play for the NCAA's.

I don't think you're being fair to the kid Andrew. Face it, we haven't had a kid with the skills sets and athleticism that Amar possesses since Marco and Max skipped town.

Monte your right. Amar has the athleticism to compete with Max but max could outshoot him with his eyes closed. Max shot 40 percent from 3 last year while Amar shot 25 percent.

 

[redfan259999888]

Programs don't recruit/get recruits. Coaches get recruits.

Coaches also have to coach said recruits, of course, but need to get them on the floor first.

Agreed. My comments were directed at those who keeping saying how hard it is to recruit to our school and to our city. To that I say "bullcrap!"

Yeah, that's those who has their head up Lavins ass, who believes that he's the only one that can recruit nationally at SJU. It is 100% BS.

Hey, I don't want to rag on you, because I don't mind occasional mild profanity, especially if the aftermath of a horrible loss. Then it's almost cathartic to get it all out of our systems, like kicking the dog. But can you try to tone it down in casual postings? Thanks

Well that's what it seem to me, when people say: "Oh we need Lavin, who else can we get to recruit the way he has?" Well lets look at these 2 years.
Last year he got no one who plays this year, Adonis and Keith are no shows. This year only one 4 star player.

So what is so special about Lavins great recruiting? Yes, we got 3 weeks to see who else comes, but so far to date just 3 SG. Not one big man yet? I don't get it.

That's a good point, in a way. Agree with the three week comment. If he pulls some rabbits by mid April then he has one bad year and you can't question his recruiting.

I just think the mid major guys like Mass and Cluess have a ceiling around Lav's bad years. Hurley name might help one of the bros a little above that. Best idea I've heard is Howland if he can hire Matt A or Slice to come with him.

That's something i could def live with if they got rid of Lavin. A coach like Howland with a recruiter like Rohrssen... I'm not sold on the young and comers...granted looking at how Jay Wright turned out may make me rethink things

All great coaches had to start at the bottom.

 

[bamafan]

This may be totally off but just thought i would pass it along if for no other reason than for entertainment sake. There is a rumor that Billy D is not happy with treatment he has received (my guess is by students and or fans) for the off season Florida has had and that if Crean is let go by Indiana he may be interested. I obviously have no idea if any of this is true. If it is, taking it a step further if MR is the man behind the Lavin contract and if he wants the plug pulled on Lavin (barring a good run in the T obviously) maybe he takes another run at Billy the Kid. Just throwing it out there in case the improbable happens I would get the scoup of the century on the redmen sites. LOL