Next Coach?

[Knight]

After sitting through the semifinals last night, it's clear that

1) Nova is very well coached
2) Georgetown is very well coached - they didn't lose, they ran out of clock, and Xavier is thankful for that.
3) Providence is very well coached.

These are coaches that rally their guys to be patient and intense even when losing. The Providence team stood toe to toe with Nova, and helped by a phantom foul, Nova was likely to escape with a win. Couldn't see us at full strength doing the same. The same goes for Georgetown's roaring comeback as a flagrant 2 where they dominated action thereafter.

And as mentioned Lavin is 5 and 3 against those coaches.

You can cite all the stats out of context you want; all I know is again I am watching other teams play deep into the BE tournament while we were not even remotely competitive on our home court against a team we had beaten twice. Lose, OK, no disgrace in losing to Providence at all, but not showing up, in the last BE tournament for 4 seniors who have never won a game in the tourney? Horrible.
The program continues to reek of instability with another "benching" as it were of Jordan, just when it seemed he was turning the corner. And oh yeah, even if we get some of the recruits we are earmarking extremely late in this years cycle we are still essentially starting over 5 years into Lavin's regime. And if we don't get those recruits, well, I don't want to see it at all but I'm sure you guys will be able to put a positive spin on it regardless; me, not so much.
I understand Louie was far from the greatest coach in history but I will take a blue collar team that competes their tails off every game over what I have seen over the last 5 years any day. And yes, I do know Lavin's record is light years better than Norms, but it still falls woefully short of wwhat I was expecting out of him.

I will say, having watched round 2, that all teams playing in the semis came to play (which we didn't). But I wouldn't characterize winning 1 game going deep into the tournament.. It's a 3 game tournament (outside of the qualifying round), and the hot team usually bangs out 3 wins and that's it.

Just as a mild question, of which the cantankerous always misinterpret, isn't Coach Carnesecca affectionately referred to as "Looie" and not "Louie"?

Just a question: Other than the flawed nirvana of 1985-86, how many times did Carnesecca have one than one NBA level player on his roster? I think much less than we would believe. Considering no one could leave early then, I have a feeling that our program would have been in the dumper back then if George Johnson, Chris Mullin, Mark Jackson, Mel Davis, and others could have been one or two and done back then, as Sampson and Harkless have been for Lavin.

For my money, Carnesecca was no better an X's and O's guy than Lavin.

I believe John Kresse was Louie's Xs & Os guy for a great part of his tenure.

 

[monte]

From the early 80s on kids could leave early for the NBA. Jordan and Olajuwon left in 84 early and Big John was always threatening to have Ewing leave before 4 years. So Louie had to deal with that problem for a good part of his career.
As for the better game coach Lou hands down. He may never have won a game he shouldn't but his teams were well prepared and other than Niagra in 1984 he didn't loose games he was supposed to win.

No doubt Lou's teams were more balanced, better prepared and executed better. They also consistently played hard. Not so sure he was a whole lot better as an in-game strategist.

 

[beast of the east]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Its been proven that this program can recruit locally, nationally, and even internationally. That's not the issue. And we should not need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful. We need to be able to recruit effectively, spot under the radar talent and to be able to coach the kids that are recruited. See Wisconsin, Virgina and Gonzaga as examples of teams that are doing just fine in spite of the fact that they are not stacked with 5 star talent.

As, austour stated, "coaches" get players not the school. I don't believe any coach can come here and just suddenly grab blue-chip talent from anywhere in the country.

No, you don't need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful, but most of the school's who consistently get those type of players are the one's who usually sustain success and win championships. The schools you've named are solid programs (Virginia just came back, as they were down for several years), but they generally fall short when tournament time rolls around. I'm sure there are posters here who will get tired of being successful in the regular season only to continue to fall on our faces in the NCAA Tournament.

Some folks here would've feasted on Louie.

Agreed that not just any coach can come here and get 4 and 5 star talent, but that is pretty much true almost anywhere. I just don't buy that the school and the city are an impediment to us recruiting locally, nationally and internationally. In all honesty if this site existed 30 years ago, I probably would have been at the forefront of criticizing Louie, in spite of how much I loved him. His in game coaching definitely left something to be desired. And its human nature to be frustrated when your team does not go as far as you expect, regardless of how well they do. Having said that, I long for the days of us being a perennial top 25 team.

Human nature indeed! But we as St. John's fans have an inflated sense of our history over the past 20 or so years. The last time we were perennial was the first two Jarvis seasons when we had elite talents like Artest and Barkley. That was 1998-99.
Now we are having a discussion about the next coach as if this coach has been a complete failure in comparison to our past. Well amigo, our past has mostly been forgetable. This coach had us ranked this year in spite of all the flaws we have discussed repeatedly. He had us ranked in his first season with players used to be doormats in the old and bigger Big East. He has won 20+ games in 3 of the 4 years on the bench. This will be our 2nd NCAA bid in his 4 years on the bench and we had one NIT.
We won 21 games thus far and may get 2 top 50 recruits and a few 3 star players to rebuild next year.
Yet, we have this overblown sense of ourselves that shmucks like Ricky Smith think Mad Max Masiello would return us to some embellished past glory.
Not matter who coaches at St. John's many will never be satisfied with the results.

Maybe I'm delusional, but with the right coach at the helm I still firmly believe that we can once again be a perennial top 25/NCAA Tourney team. When the day comes that I stop believing that is possible, that's the day I find another team to root for. If the school isnt willing to make a commitment to having a successful basketball program, then I'm not willing to make a commitment to follow them.

I don't know, maybe we all are. Perhaps it was league play that helped elevate other programs.

Consider that since the 70s,

1) Nova has has far more success than SJU, including a championship and a couple of final fours.

2) Georgetown has had far more success. (no need to go into detail)

3) Seton Hall has generally had less, but appeared in a championship game.

4) Providence has had less success but two final fours, a sweet sixteen and one elite 8.

5) Xavier was a mid major, but had its profile and trajectory raised by admission to the Big East

6) DePaul has been a doormat, but had some great years under Ray Meyer.including 4 sweet sixteens, one elite 8, and one final four.

7) Butler - same as Xavier but also appeared in two sweet 16's and two championship games since 2003.

8) Creighton has appeared in 16 NCAA tournaments since the 70s.

9) Marquette hbas appeared in 7 Sweet 16's, one elite 8, One final four, and played in two NCAA championship games, winning one.


Okay, do you really believe that over 40 years our program has been elite and deserves to be in the upper echelons of this conference year after year? That's the reality. Our storied program is for the most part, a story.

 

[Andrew]

Let's keep Lou out of this.

 

[rawdognyc]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

Who cares. Let season play out & we'll see what SJU decision makers want to do. Perpetual back & forth means nothing.

Who cares? Are you serious? I fkn have to read people tear this guy and the job he does apart, but when i bring up a solid point, it's "who cares"...maybe you should say that to Avon, Johnny, oldredman etc when they repeat their bullshit ad nauseum...

 

[bamafan]

Agree Beast but what if we had some better coaches?

 

[beast of the east]

From the early 80s on kids could leave early for the NBA. Jordan and Olajuwon left in 84 early and Big John was always threatening to have Ewing leave before 4 years. So Louie had to deal with that problem for a good part of his career.
As for the better game coach Lou hands down. He may never have won a game he shouldn't but his teams were well prepared and other than Niagra in 1984 he didn't loose games he was supposed to win.

No doubt Lou's teams were more balanced, better prepared and executed better. They also consistently played hard. Not so sure he was a whole lot better as an in-game strategist.

A long time ago, Mel Davis confided, "Coach can make a fair team good and also make a great team good." Lou's teams would walk the ball up, and rarely allowed players to push the ball up in a fast paced tempo. He favored point guards who didn't turn the ball over and could run a halfcourt offense. I don't know if players would play for him today.

 

[paultzman]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

Who cares. Let season play out & we'll see what SJU decision makers want to do. Perpetual back & forth means nothing.

Who cares? Are you serious? I fkn have to read people tear this guy and the job he does apart, but when i bring up a solid point, it's "who cares"...maybe you should say that to Avon, Johnny, oldredman etc when they repeat their bullshit ad nauseum...

You let it get to you. I don't. Silly nonsense!

 

[rawdognyc]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

 

[monte]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Its been proven that this program can recruit locally, nationally, and even internationally. That's not the issue. And we should not need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful. We need to be able to recruit effectively, spot under the radar talent and to be able to coach the kids that are recruited. See Wisconsin, Virgina and Gonzaga as examples of teams that are doing just fine in spite of the fact that they are not stacked with 5 star talent.

As, austour stated, "coaches" get players not the school. I don't believe any coach can come here and just suddenly grab blue-chip talent from anywhere in the country.

No, you don't need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful, but most of the school's who consistently get those type of players are the one's who usually sustain success and win championships. The schools you've named are solid programs (Virginia just came back, as they were down for several years), but they generally fall short when tournament time rolls around. I'm sure there are posters here who will get tired of being successful in the regular season only to continue to fall on our faces in the NCAA Tournament.

Some folks here would've feasted on Louie.

Agreed that not just any coach can come here and get 4 and 5 star talent, but that is pretty much true almost anywhere. I just don't buy that the school and the city are an impediment to us recruiting locally, nationally and internationally. In all honesty if this site existed 30 years ago, I probably would have been at the forefront of criticizing Louie, in spite of how much I loved him. His in game coaching definitely left something to be desired. And its human nature to be frustrated when your team does not go as far as you expect, regardless of how well they do. Having said that, I long for the days of us being a perennial top 25 team.

Human nature indeed! But we as St. John's fans have an inflated sense of our history over the past 20 or so years. The last time we were perennial was the first two Jarvis seasons when we had elite talents like Artest and Barkley. That was 1998-99.
Now we are having a discussion about the next coach as if this coach has been a complete failure in comparison to our past. Well amigo, our past has mostly been forgetable. This coach had us ranked this year in spite of all the flaws we have discussed repeatedly. He had us ranked in his first season with players used to be doormats in the old and bigger Big East. He has won 20+ games in 3 of the 4 years on the bench. This will be our 2nd NCAA bid in his 4 years on the bench and we had one NIT.
We won 21 games thus far and may get 2 top 50 recruits and a few 3 star players to rebuild next year.
Yet, we have this overblown sense of ourselves that shmucks like Ricky Smith think Mad Max Masiello would return us to some embellished past glory.
Not matter who coaches at St. John's many will never be satisfied with the results.

Maybe I'm delusional, but with the right coach at the helm I still firmly believe that we can once again be a perennial top 25/NCAA Tourney team. When the day comes that I stop believing that is possible, that's the day I find another team to root for. If the school isnt willing to make a commitment to having a successful basketball program, then I'm not willing to make a commitment to follow them.

I don't know, maybe we all are. Perhaps it was league play that helped elevate other programs.

Consider that since the 70s,

1) Nova has has far more success than SJU, including a championship and a couple of final fours.

2) Georgetown has had far more success. (no need to go into detail)

3) Seton Hall has generally had less, but appeared in a championship game.

4) Providence has had less success but two final fours, a sweet sixteen and one elite 8.

5) Xavier was a mid major, but had its profile and trajectory raised by admission to the Big East

6) DePaul has been a doormat, but had some great years under Ray Meyer.including 4 sweet sixteens, one elite 8, and one final four.

7) Butler - same as Xavier but also appeared in two sweet 16's and two championship games since 2003.

8) Creighton has appeared in 16 NCAA tournaments since the 70s.

9) Marquette hbas appeared in 7 Sweet 16's, one elite 8, One final four, and played in two NCAA championship games, winning one.


Okay, do you really believe that over 40 years our program has been elite and deserves to be in the upper echelons of this conference year after year? That's the reality. Our storied program is for the most part, a story.

"Success" is a subjective thing. Every single school you mention has had their ups and downs. Give me something close to the "success" we had from the 70s-90s and I'll be content. IMO there's no way with the right guy at the helm that's not attainable. If the administration didnt feel the same way I highly doubt they'd be shelling out 2Mil+ for a head coach. They can achieve mediocrity for a whole lot less.

 

[beast of the east]

Agree Beast but what if we had some better coaches?

If St. John's paid Frank McGuire more money than UNC offered, the worl dmight be a different place.

 

[monte]

Let's keep Lou out of this.

I'd rather people compare Lavin to Lou than to Norm, as many like to do. As far as I'm concerned, Lou should be the bar.

 

[Class of 72]

After sitting through the semifinals last night, it's clear that

1) Nova is very well coached
2) Georgetown is very well coached - they didn't lose, they ran out of clock, and Xavier is thankful for that.
3) Providence is very well coached.

These are coaches that rally their guys to be patient and intense even when losing. The Providence team stood toe to toe with Nova, and helped by a phantom foul, Nova was likely to escape with a win. Couldn't see us at full strength doing the same. The same goes for Georgetown's roaring comeback as a flagrant 2 where they dominated action thereafter.

And as mentioned Lavin is 5 and 3 against those coaches.

You can cite all the stats out of context you want; all I know is again I am watching other teams play deep into the BE tournament while we were not even remotely competitive on our home court against a team we had beaten twice. Lose, OK, no disgrace in losing to Providence at all, but not showing up, in the last BE tournament for 4 seniors who have never won a game in the tourney? Horrible.
The program continues to reek of instability with another "benching" as it were of Jordan, just when it seemed he was turning the corner. And oh yeah, even if we get some of the recruits we are earmarking extremely late in this years cycle we are still essentially starting over 5 years into Lavin's regime. And if we don't get those recruits, well, I don't want to see it at all but I'm sure you guys will be able to put a positive spin on it regardless; me, not so much.
I understand Louie was far from the greatest coach in history but I will take a blue collar team that competes their tails off every game over what I have seen over the last 5 years any day. And yes, I do know Lavin's record is light years better than Norms, but it still falls woefully short of wwhat I was expecting out of him.

Agree with all except the last clause beginning with "but". We have gotten exactly the same Lavin that you saw at UCLA, just without the same players.

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

The only reason I was against hiring Steve Lavin was not because of his UCLA record (we wish) but because he had been away from coaching for too many years for my comfort. He knew that was a handicap and hired Keady as a tutor.
But Lavin spent 7 years at UCLA as a young head coach who had always been an assistant and you must have read too many blogs from disgruntled UCLA fans that were smarting from his only losing year there. The only similarity is he got lazy on the recruiting trail in his last 2 years just like here at St. John's but his record? We should only wish:

1996–97 UCLA 24–8 15–3 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1997–98 UCLA 24–9 12–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1998–99 UCLA 22–9 12–6 3rd NCAA First Round
1999–00 UCLA 21–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2000–01 UCLA 23–9 14–4 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2001–02 UCLA 21–12 11–7 6th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002–03 UCLA 10–19 6–12 T–6th

 

[GardenCity62]

I'm hoping Lavin gets extended because I think it is the best option at this time and at my age ( class of 62 ) I don't look forward to a year or two of total rebuilding.
But if the option is a new coach why isn't Tommy Amaker's name ever mentioned?

 

[gman]

@wallyball: Masterful coaching job by @ISUMayor32 in 2nd half. Attacked mismatches got control of the game. #Big12Tournament Champs @CycloneMBB

@JonRothstein: Iowa State continues to cement its place as a national program. Cyclones have now won back-to-back Big 12 Tournament titles. Amazing feat.

 

[Jack Williams]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

I'm not predicting anything but with the seniors leaving it is clear there is a lot of rebuilding to done. I don't know what the roster will look like but the 2015 class so far has left a lot to be a desired. Which is why i said a good tournament run could help. I'm pretty neutral on the Lavin thing, I understand why people like him and understand why people don't. But you seem to be in disbelief that some fans are frustrated, when there are a lot of reasons to be

 

[Class of 72]

Let's keep Lou out of this.

Lou got us into to this mess!!!!!! :lol:
To this day I remember being with some redmen buddies for a beer lunch when we heard Brian Mahoney was named coach. Our collective reaction was "we're fckd".
The rest is history.

 

[Class of 72]

@wallyball: Masterful coaching job by @ISUMayor32 in 2nd half. Attacked mismatches got control of the game. #Big12Tournament Champs @CycloneMBB

@JonRothstein: Iowa State continues to cement its place as a national program. Cyclones have now won back-to-back Big 12 Tournament titles. Amazing feat.

Is there an implication here that the Iowa State coach could be a candidate?
Didn't think so.
When Diallo commits to them let's revisit then.

 

[rawdognyc]

I still pose this question to the Lavin haters (since none have answered)... What were you expecting Lavin to do taking over a team where he literally had to start from scratch? I see that the years he's been on the bench with his own players, he won 17 games and went to the NIT second round. Won 20 games and lost in NIT first round. Won 21 games and will be coaching in the NCAAs with yet to be determined results. Now, please tell me what we should expect under the same exact circumstances. Please reference another coach who under the same exact circumstances either exceeded what Lavin has or has even matched what he has done on essentially 3 years. Thank you

He built the team from scratch yes. The problem is he's put himself in a situation where he basically has to do it again. That's not how it's supposed to be. You are supposed to build a program and keep bringing in talent so you don't have to build from scratch every 4 years. But a good run in the tournament and I think Lavin can rebuild successfully, so as paultz said let's see how this goes

So its ok to predict what our future holds when you nor i know that is Gunna happen this year or next in terms of recruits, transfers and who returns or doesn't. So how can you say what he is creating isn't sustainable when it hasn't even happened... Hardly anyone gave us a chance to make the tourney this year once adr and thomas were declared ineligible and yet.. Here we are on the eve of selection Sunday wondering what seed we'll be

I'm not predicting anything but with the seniors leaving it is clear there is a lot of rebuilding to done. I don't know what the roster will look like but the 2015 class so far has left a lot to be a desired. Which is why i said a good tournament run could help. I'm pretty neutral on the Lavin thing, I understand why people like him and understand why people don't. But you seem to be in disbelief that some fans are frustrated, when there are a lot of reasons to be

Nah... I'm over the disbelief since no one can obviously answer the question I've posed.. It just solidifies my stance on how well of a job SL has done in a short period of time. Forget the fact if we still had the 2 players that left for the NBA...Generally speaking the people that don't like him is because of where he chooses to dine, what he chooses to wear and how he chooses to style his hair. If they looked at the body of work they would realize what he has done with a doormat of a program that had no relevance for the last decade. The program has gotten better each year, that's what you strive for. A couple of Jucos/transfers and one or 2 more top 100 guys with CO Rysheed and Amar returning isn't a bad thing. Especially if the guys he brings in have some decent bball iq... That's not a rebuilding year in my opinion. We could def be more than competitive

 

[monte]

After sitting through the semifinals last night, it's clear that

1) Nova is very well coached
2) Georgetown is very well coached - they didn't lose, they ran out of clock, and Xavier is thankful for that.
3) Providence is very well coached.

These are coaches that rally their guys to be patient and intense even when losing. The Providence team stood toe to toe with Nova, and helped by a phantom foul, Nova was likely to escape with a win. Couldn't see us at full strength doing the same. The same goes for Georgetown's roaring comeback as a flagrant 2 where they dominated action thereafter.

And as mentioned Lavin is 5 and 3 against those coaches.

You can cite all the stats out of context you want; all I know is again I am watching other teams play deep into the BE tournament while we were not even remotely competitive on our home court against a team we had beaten twice. Lose, OK, no disgrace in losing to Providence at all, but not showing up, in the last BE tournament for 4 seniors who have never won a game in the tourney? Horrible.
The program continues to reek of instability with another "benching" as it were of Jordan, just when it seemed he was turning the corner. And oh yeah, even if we get some of the recruits we are earmarking extremely late in this years cycle we are still essentially starting over 5 years into Lavin's regime. And if we don't get those recruits, well, I don't want to see it at all but I'm sure you guys will be able to put a positive spin on it regardless; me, not so much.
I understand Louie was far from the greatest coach in history but I will take a blue collar team that competes their tails off every game over what I have seen over the last 5 years any day. And yes, I do know Lavin's record is light years better than Norms, but it still falls woefully short of wwhat I was expecting out of him.

Agree with all except the last clause beginning with "but". We have gotten exactly the same Lavin that you saw at UCLA, just without the same players.

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

The only reason I was against hiring Steve Lavin was not because of his UCLA record (we wish) but because he had been away from coaching for too many years for my comfort. He knew that was a handicap and hired Keady as a tutor.
But Lavin spent 7 years at UCLA as a young head coach who had always been an assistant and you must have read too many blogs from disgruntled UCLA fans that were smarting from his only losing year there. The only similarity is he got lazy on the recruiting trail in his last 2 years just like here at St. John's but his record? We should only wish:

1996–97 UCLA 24–8 15–3 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1997–98 UCLA 24–9 12–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1998–99 UCLA 22–9 12–6 3rd NCAA First Round
1999–00 UCLA 21–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2000–01 UCLA 23–9 14–4 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2001–02 UCLA 21–12 11–7 6th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002–03 UCLA 10–19 6–12 T–6th

Please stop regurgitating the UCLA record/disgruntled fan/unrealistic expectation defense. The fact is that he could not get past the sweet sixteen(except for his first year with Harrick's kids-sound familiar?) in spite of the fact that he had the most talented teams in the country. His teams played with the same kind of inconsistency that we've seen here. The ship was sinking when he was let go. I won't get in to all the other personal crap that I know. All I can tell you is that his dismissal was well deserved.