Next Coach?

[bamafan]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Doubt there is even one fan who wants Lavin out because of his salary they just point out we aren't getting good return on our dollar. I wish SJU would spend 50 million a year on coaches and we had a staff of Greg Popovich, Doc Rivers, Tom Thibidoh, and Mike Kryzshewski.

 

[redfan259999888]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Doubt there is even one fan who wants Lavin out because of his salary they just point out we aren't getting good return on our dollar. I wish SJU would spend 50 million a year on coaches and we had a staff of Greg Popovich, Doc Rivers, Tom Thibidoh, and Mike Kryzshewski.

Nah, just get Calipari to grap 5 top 10 recruits, and Phil Jackson to run the triangle (phil is here anyway.), and we'd be all set. We'd have college bball on lockdown. lol wishful thinking

 

[JohnnyFan]

1. Archie Miller
2. Bobby Hurley
3. Danny Hurley

I perceive all three to be competent coaches and recruiters. All three would get a raise coming to SJU.

 

[monte]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Its been proven that this program can recruit locally, nationally, and even internationally. That's not the issue. And we should not need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful. We need to be able to recruit effectively, spot under the radar talent and to be able to coach the kids that are recruited. See Wisconsin, Virgina and Gonzaga as examples of teams that are doing just fine in spite of the fact that they are not stacked with 5 star talent.

 

[austour]

Programs don't recruit/get recruits. Coaches get recruits.

Coaches also have to coach said recruits, of course, but need to get them on the floor first.

 

[monte]

Programs don't recruit/get recruits. Coaches get recruits.

Coaches also have to coach said recruits, of course, but need to get them on the floor first.

Agreed. My comments were directed at those who keeping saying how hard it is to recruit to our school and to our city. To that I say "bullcrap!"

 

[MJDinkins]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Its been proven that this program can recruit locally, nationally, and even internationally. That's not the issue. And we should not need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful. We need to be able to recruit effectively, spot under the radar talent and to be able to coach the kids that are recruited. See Wisconsin, Virgina and Gonzaga as examples of teams that are doing just fine in spite of the fact that they are not stacked with 5 star talent.

As, austour stated, "coaches" get players not the school. I don't believe any coach can come here and just suddenly grab blue-chip talent from anywhere in the country.

No, you don't need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful, but most of the school's who consistently get those type of players are the one's who usually sustain success and win championships. The schools you've named are solid programs (Virginia just came back, as they were down for several years), but they generally fall short when tournament time rolls around. I'm sure there are posters here who will get tired of being successful in the regular season only to continue to fall on our faces in the NCAA Tournament.

Some folks here would've feasted on Louie.

 

[Class of 72]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Time to stop bringing up what Carnesseca did, what Mahoney did, what Norm did, etc.

It's time to come up with an identity.

Throwing together players, regardless of their rankings, and not being able to coach them is not the way to sustained success.

You have to coach to win. Motivation can only take you so far.

SJU, SH and DePaul didn't put up a fight in the BE tourney. You had 2 All-Conference players, the DPOY, the MIP, a McDonald's AA, the current ROY and the returning ROY between the 3 teams.

Can't use the argument that great players guarantee wins.

Whatever will happen to Lavin is to come.

But until we get someone who can actually coach players, it won't matter who we recruit. And the last 4 years has proven that.

I love your comment " SJU, SH and DePaul didn't put up a fight in the BE tourney. You had 2 All-Conference players, the DPOY, the MIP, a McDonald's AA, the current ROY and the returning ROY between the 3 teams. "
Funny that Kentucky has all that on the 2nd platoon.
Thanks for defeating your own argument by coming up with all those great players but spreading them out over 3 teams. Now imagine a good x and o coach without any of those players. That was my point. You will not win in a competitive conference.

 

[redfan259999888]

Programs don't recruit/get recruits. Coaches get recruits.

Coaches also have to coach said recruits, of course, but need to get them on the floor first.

Agreed. My comments were directed at those who keeping saying how hard it is to recruit to our school and to our city. To that I say "bullcrap!"

Yeah, that's those who has their head up Lavins ass, who believes that he's the only one that can recruit nationally at SJU. It is 100% BS.

 

[salty dog]

After sitting through the semifinals last night, it's clear that

1) Nova is very well coached
2) Georgetown is very well coached - they didn't lose, they ran out of clock, and Xavier is thankful for that.
3) Providence is very well coached.

These are coaches that rally their guys to be patient and intense even when losing. The Providence team stood toe to toe with Nova, and helped by a phantom foul, Nova was likely to escape with a win. Couldn't see us at full strength doing the same. The same goes for Georgetown's roaring comeback as a flagrant 2 where they dominated action thereafter.

And as mentioned Lavin is 5 and 3 against those coaches.

 

[Knight]

I've seen lots of rankings of HS seniors but never a ranking of best coaches. Anyone aware of such a list?

 

[redfan259999888]

After sitting through the semifinals last night, it's clear that

1) Nova is very well coached
2) Georgetown is very well coached - they didn't lose, they ran out of clock, and Xavier is thankful for that.
3) Providence is very well coached.

These are coaches that rally their guys to be patient and intense even when losing. The Providence team stood toe to toe with Nova, and helped by a phantom foul, Nova was likely to escape with a win. Couldn't see us at full strength doing the same. The same goes for Georgetown's roaring comeback as a flagrant 2 where they dominated action thereafter.

Yes, Georgetown lost, yeah you could say that if they had 2 more minutes then they win the game. Now I ask, if they were so well coached then why did they go down by 20?

 

[monte]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Its been proven that this program can recruit locally, nationally, and even internationally. That's not the issue. And we should not need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful. We need to be able to recruit effectively, spot under the radar talent and to be able to coach the kids that are recruited. See Wisconsin, Virgina and Gonzaga as examples of teams that are doing just fine in spite of the fact that they are not stacked with 5 star talent.

As, austour stated, "coaches" get players not the school. I don't believe any coach can come here and just suddenly grab blue-chip talent from anywhere in the country.

No, you don't need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful, but most of the school's who consistently get those type of players are the one's who usually sustain success and win championships. The schools you've named are solid programs (Virginia just came back, as they were down for several years), but they generally fall short when tournament time rolls around. I'm sure there are posters here who will get tired of being successful in the regular season only to continue to fall on our faces in the NCAA Tournament.

Some folks here would've feasted on Louie.

Agreed that not just any coach can come here and get 4 and 5 star talent, but that is pretty much true almost anywhere. I just don't buy that the school and the city are an impediment to us recruiting locally, nationally and internationally. In all honesty if this site existed 30 years ago, I probably would have been at the forefront of criticizing Louie, in spite of how much I loved him. His in game coaching definitely left something to be desired. And its human nature to be frustrated when your team does not go as far as you expect, regardless of how well they do. Having said that, I long for the days of us being a perennial top 25 team.

 

[Knight]

Interesting to hear Dr. J talk about when he committed to U Mass. Said he called Louie to tell him that he had not chosen SJU and both he & Louie cried on the phone. Coaches connecting with kids from early on really is important.

 

[Class of 72]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Its been proven that this program can recruit locally, nationally, and even internationally. That's not the issue. And we should not need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful. We need to be able to recruit effectively, spot under the radar talent and to be able to coach the kids that are recruited. See Wisconsin, Virgina and Gonzaga as examples of teams that are doing just fine in spite of the fact that they are not stacked with 5 star talent.

As, austour stated, "coaches" get players not the school. I don't believe any coach can come here and just suddenly grab blue-chip talent from anywhere in the country.

No, you don't need all 4 and 5 star kids in order to be successful, but most of the school's who consistently get those type of players are the one's who usually sustain success and win championships. The schools you've named are solid programs (Virginia just came back, as they were down for several years), but they generally fall short when tournament time rolls around. I'm sure there are posters here who will get tired of being successful in the regular season only to continue to fall on our faces in the NCAA Tournament.

Some folks here would've feasted on Louie.

Agreed that not just any coach can come here and get 4 and 5 star talent, but that is pretty much true almost anywhere. I just don't buy that the school and the city are an impediment to us recruiting locally, nationally and internationally. In all honesty if this site existed 30 years ago, I probably would have been at the forefront of criticizing Louie, in spite of how much I loved him. His in game coaching definitely left something to be desired. And its human nature to be frustrated when your team does not go as far as you expect, regardless of how well they do. Having said that, I long for the days of us being a perennial top 25 team.

Human nature indeed! But we as St. John's fans have an inflated sense of our history over the past 20 or so years. The last time we were perennial was the first two Jarvis seasons when we had elite talents like Artest and Barkley. That was 1998-99.
Now we are having a discussion about the next coach as if this coach has been a complete failure in comparison to our past. Well amigo, our past has mostly been forgetable. This coach had us ranked this year in spite of all the flaws we have discussed repeatedly. He had us ranked in his first season with players used to be doormats in the old and bigger Big East. He has won 20+ games in 3 of the 4 years on the bench. This will be our 2nd NCAA bid in his 4 years on the bench and we had one NIT.
We won 21 games thus far and may get 2 top 50 recruits and a few 3 star players to rebuild next year.
Yet, we have this overblown sense of ourselves that shmucks like Ricky Smith think Mad Max Masiello would return us to some embellished past glory.
Not matter who coaches at St. John's many will never be satisfied with the results.

 

[SJUalum98]

What does he need to do to be retaine/extended? Win 1 NCAA game? 2? He's gone regardless?

Win at least 1 in the tourney (especially after the two previous blowout losses) and score score high caliber recruits (Diallo, Mussini...), Lavin cant win with mid-tier players and even with top recruits it might be another 3-4 yrs before we see another tourney.

To be successful at St. John's you need a coach that can recruit. If he is a good coach and can't get the players we will never ever see an NCAA bid again. Hall of Fame coach Carnesecca was not a very good coach. He was lucky to have coached at a time when NYC produced a dozen high level D1 every year. He would have been an abject failure in today's college basketball climate.
If this program can't recruit nationally they will be relegated to the bottom of the league.
I am not married to Lavin as head coach but some of the names put forth scare me.
As those that just want Lavin out regardless because of his salary then I submit we do not belong in the Big East.

Time to stop bringing up what Carnesseca did, what Mahoney did, what Norm did, etc.

It's time to come up with an identity.

Throwing together players, regardless of their rankings, and not being able to coach them is not the way to sustained success.

You have to coach to win. Motivation can only take you so far.

SJU, SH and DePaul didn't put up a fight in the BE tourney. You had 2 All-Conference players, the DPOY, the MIP, a McDonald's AA, the current ROY and the returning ROY between the 3 teams.

Can't use the argument that great players guarantee wins.

Whatever will happen to Lavin is to come.

But until we get someone who can actually coach players, it won't matter who we recruit. And the last 4 years has proven that.

I love your comment " SJU, SH and DePaul didn't put up a fight in the BE tourney. You had 2 All-Conference players, the DPOY, the MIP, a McDonald's AA, the current ROY and the returning ROY between the 3 teams. "
Funny that Kentucky has all that on the 2nd platoon.
Thanks for defeating your own argument by coming up with all those great players but spreading them out over 3 teams. Now imagine a good x and o coach without any of those players. That was my point. You will not win in a competitive conference.

Huh?
Good coaches will win games consistently and maximize their players' potential more times than not.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Buffalo playing at 7:30 on espn2 if anyone wants to see Bobby Hurley on the sidelines

 

[Andrew]

Getting a second top 50 recruit this year would have been huge.

 

[bamafan]

Dayton edged Rhoody in A 10 semi, 2 good coaching candidates to move up Archie miller and Danny Hurley.

 

[SJUalum98]

Getting a second top 50 recruit this year would have been huge.

Would have been huge for what?