Next Coach?

[monte]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Tony, you can't blame Chris, lawmanfan or anyone here for pessimism. That is our history and if the staff does not learn from it then it could be repeated. Look at Obekpa and Jordan, they are no way ready for the pro game yet they are itching to leave early. The staff needs to be more honest with these kids and convince them that their basketball education is not complete as yet. If these were "normal" college student athletes next year would not be a question mark. Combined with new recruits and returnees, Lavin would have a strong core of players to work with but history has been repeating itself at SJU. This was not a nationally ranked team even when they were ranked! Just too many holes and no depth so whether we make the Ncaa's or NIT is irrelevant. Lavin will be evaluated on whether he will be reloading or rebuilding next year. None of us will know until the April signing period.

Hey, I know all about pessimism I've been an SJU fan for as long as just about anybody on this board. Plus, to add insult to injury, I'm a Jets fan!

I'm not looking at this program, and Lavin, through rose colored glasses. And I am certainly no Pollyanna. I'm fully aware of Lavin's flaws and our situation. I just don't see a better option out there. I've read all the names thrown out and not one of them excites me in the least. So I believe that unless Lavin runs this program into the toilet, and I have to believe that even the harshest critics don't think he's done that, then I say let's see how the rest of this season turns out and what the future looks like in terms of recruits.

People choose whether to be pessimistic or not. It is something we have direct control over, that is, our reactions. I choose not to be pessimistic. Doesn't mean I'm optimistic. Just means that I prefer to withhold judgment until the season is over.

Sorry about The JETS, that is a fandom from which I can't fathom. Hope you aren't a Mets fan too? Throw in our last 15 years of, essentially, awful BB and does anyone wonder why we are unhappy?

On the Jets radar should be JOHN FOX. for a lot of reasons.

I do have a question though that you raised about Lavin and not running our Program into the Toilet... What does that mean to any Redmen fan who opts for change, before we get to the toilet? Are we to wait until we finish last in the BE again, not make the NCAA'S, never win another BE TOURNEY GAME? If all we want is a program like Lavin has developed, then we should opt to go to another league and be satisfied with mid major status and out of conference wins.

You can count on 1 hand the number of BIG GAMES he has won in his tenure. PITT in the HARDY years and how many since? But, we've lost way too many clunkers too, San Fran, Penn State, DePaul, etc. I'm not even counting Robert Morris last season. What a disgrace that was!

I would say Steve hasn't done enough to continue beyond this season.. Giving him any more time, won't improve anything on the Court.. New Players? it hasn't happened with the talent he has had already, why would things change? Don't you understand, he can't Coach with or without talent. HE ISN'T THE ANSWER.

Joe I think part of the problem is that the combination of the Jarvis debacle and Norm years set the bar so incredibly low, that many are willing to accept mediocrity for much of the time, with an occasional rise above that. Lavin's tenure has had its peaks(relatively speaking) and valleys. I don't mind the valleys(IE the first couple of years) if they are growing pains as part of a re-building process, and if it feels as though the program is headed in the right direction. Unfortunately it does not feel that way to me and as such, I expect that the combination of peaks and valleys that we've seen are exactly what we'll continue to see. Although I am still reserving final judgment till the end of the season.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Steve Lavin's Post-Season Record at St. John's:

NCAA Tournament 0-1
NIT 1-2
Big East Tournament: 1-4

This man has been an underachiever for five seasons now and he should be relieved of his duties as soon as the season ends so we can move on. Paying this guy an upward of 2 Million Dollars per season is absurd with these results he has delivered.

The track record speaks for itself and as Bill Parcells said "You are what your record is"

 

[logen]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

 

[redfan259999888]

How common is a 2-year contract extension? It seems to me that most of the extensions are 4-5 years. In that case, Lavin is either gone soon or he'll be here for another 6 years. Or am I missing something?

If he gets 3 or 4 top kids but no ncaa this year, then i say two year extension which is a total of 3.
No more

Add another 2 years if he gets to the ncaa

If he wants more then tell him BYE BYE

 

[beast of the east]

The program lands a top recruit, and you "supporters" still pile on in this pathetic thread. I'm no Lavin lover, but give it a rest and get a grip. It's a long season.

YOU speak for yourself and get a grip!

Landing Sampson in reality is putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound if you look at the overall picture of whats going on here...so stop telling the realists what to do until you make your return from the Land of Basketball Make Believe.

Saw your dad at the Carnesecca birthday dinner. Glad to see you've inherited his rosy outlook on SJU basketball. I hope you at least enjoyed the 11-1 start

 

[TonyinFairfield]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

How in the world could anyone, let alone Lavin, know there was a systemic transcript scandal going on at Westchester Community College? Even the Head Coach there, Tyrone Mushatt, was not aware of what was going on. His Assistant Basketball coach was the one who provided phony transcripts and forged signatures. No way anyone outside of the program "should" have seen what was happening, until it all came out. Lavin can be blamed for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

The program lands a top recruit, and you "supporters" still pile on in this pathetic thread. I'm no Lavin lover, but give it a rest and get a grip. It's a long season.

YOU speak for yourself and get a grip!

Landing Sampson in reality is putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound if you look at the overall picture of whats going on here...so stop telling the realists what to do until you make your return from the Land of Basketball Make Believe.

Saw your dad at the Carnesecca birthday dinner. Glad to see you've inherited his rosy outlook on SJU basketball. I hope you at least enjoyed the 11-1 start

but you walk right past me at the gym like im some kinda third class citizen lol

 

[beast of the east]

The program lands a top recruit, and you "supporters" still pile on in this pathetic thread. I'm no Lavin lover, but give it a rest and get a grip. It's a long season.

YOU speak for yourself and get a grip!

Landing Sampson in reality is putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound if you look at the overall picture of whats going on here...so stop telling the realists what to do until you make your return from the Land of Basketball Make Believe.

Saw your dad at the Carnesecca birthday dinner. Glad to see you've inherited his rosy outlook on SJU basketball. I hope you at least enjoyed the 11-1 start

but you walk right past me at the gym like im some kinda third class citizen lol

PM me. That wouldn't be intentional

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Steve Lavin's Post-Season Record at St. John's:

NCAA Tournament 0-1
NIT 1-2
Big East Tournament: 1-4

This man has been an underachiever for five seasons now and he should be relieved of his duties as soon as the season ends so we can move on. Paying this guy an upward of 2 Million Dollars per season is absurd with these results he has delivered.

The track record speaks for itself and as Bill Parcells said "You are what your record is"

A week ago you stated that there was no way on gods phil greene earth that lavin would be back coaching next year. Now it seems you are worried he might be retained. Did something change?

 

[logen]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

How in the world could anyone, let alone Lavin, know there was a systemic transcript scandal going on at Westchester Community College? Even the Head Coach there, Tyrone Mushatt, was not aware of what was going on. His Assistant Basketball coach was the one who provided phony transcripts and forged signatures. No way anyone outside of the program "should" have seen what was happening, until it all came out. Lavin can be blamed for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

Oh, first of all, I didn't realize Thomas was Lavin's only academic issue. Second, do your due diligence, when you are recruiting a player who has had issues in the past as Thomas had you have someone talk to his teachers, academic advisor, talk to the kid himself, etc. See if if it all passes the smell test. I'm sorry but at the end of the day you guys have excuses for every bad turn of events instead of seeing it for what it is; shoddy, lazy committment and management. One incident, academic or otherwise, even two yes, I will give the benefit of the doubt, which I did, but year after year, it just is what it is.

 

[logen]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

How in the world could anyone, let alone Lavin, know there was a systemic transcript scandal going on at Westchester Community College? Even the Head Coach there, Tyrone Mushatt, was not aware of what was going on. His Assistant Basketball coach was the one who provided phony transcripts and forged signatures. No way anyone outside of the program "should" have seen what was happening, until it all came out. Lavin can be blamed for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

I did not realize Thomas was Lavin's only acaddemic issue. Make all the excuses you want but at the end of the day this program is in the position it is in because of Lavin, plain and simple.

 

[TonyinFairfield]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

How in the world could anyone, let alone Lavin, know there was a systemic transcript scandal going on at Westchester Community College? Even the Head Coach there, Tyrone Mushatt, was not aware of what was going on. His Assistant Basketball coach was the one who provided phony transcripts and forged signatures. No way anyone outside of the program "should" have seen what was happening, until it all came out. Lavin can be blamed for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

I did not realize Thomas was Lavin's only acaddemic issue. Make all the excuses you want but at the end of the day this program is in the position it is in because of Lavin, plain and simple.

Please read my posts. I'm not making excuses. Even the Head Coach there did not know what was going on. Oh wait. I know. You'll say he was clueless.

So, Lavin should have known Jordan would have his issues? He should have know that Moe wouldnt stay? Or he should have known that JaKaar wouldn't stay either? Lots of "shouldas" coming from you. Sounds to me like you're the one making all the excuses.

Should. One of the most dangerous words in the English language.

 

[beast of the east]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

How in the world could anyone, let alone Lavin, know there was a systemic transcript scandal going on at Westchester Community College? Even the Head Coach there, Tyrone Mushatt, was not aware of what was going on. His Assistant Basketball coach was the one who provided phony transcripts and forged signatures. No way anyone outside of the program "should" have seen what was happening, until it all came out. Lavin can be blamed for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

Oh, first of all, I didn't realize Thomas was Lavin's only academic issue. Second, do your due diligence, when you are recruiting a player who has had issues in the past as Thomas had you have someone talk to his teachers, academic advisor, talk to the kid himself, etc. See if if it all passes the smell test. I'm sorry but at the end of the day you guys have excuses for every bad turn of events instead of seeing it for what it is; shoddy, lazy committment and management. One incident, academic or otherwise, even two yes, I will give the benefit of the doubt, which I did, but year after year, it just is what it is.

While I agree wholeheartedly that his transcript appears to have been written in crayons, and that should have been a big red flag, your other prescribed methods - speaking with teachers, academic advisors, or the kid himself - would have about 1/4 of the kids playing big time basketball ruled suspect.

 

[logen]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

How in the world could anyone, let alone Lavin, know there was a systemic transcript scandal going on at Westchester Community College? Even the Head Coach there, Tyrone Mushatt, was not aware of what was going on. His Assistant Basketball coach was the one who provided phony transcripts and forged signatures. No way anyone outside of the program "should" have seen what was happening, until it all came out. Lavin can be blamed for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

I did not realize Thomas was Lavin's only acaddemic issue. Make all the excuses you want but at the end of the day this program is in the position it is in because of Lavin, plain and simple.

Please read my posts. I'm not making excuses. Even the Head Coach there did not know what was going on. Oh wait. I know. You'll say he was clueless.

So, Lavin should have known Jordan would have his issues? He should have know that Moe wouldnt stay? Or he should have known that JaKaar wouldn't stay either? Lots of "shouldas" coming from you. Sounds to me like you're the one making all the excuses.

Should. One of the most dangerous words in the English language.

What I do know is Lavin SHOULD have been working his tail off recruiting and developing the players he did recruit; neither happened. Harkless, I certiainly give him a pass; but from Day 1 last year anyone could see Sampson was auditioning for the league but Lavin didn't know? He has handled Jordan wrong almost right from the start and got what he deserved; he knew early on what Jordan was because the kid has been a problem since he came here. Lavin got HIMSELF in trouble with Thomas/Balamou/, etc. type recruits because his laziness backed him in a corner where he wiould have taken almost anyone, including walk ons we were supposed to believe were going to make a difference in the program. He recruited and talked up Hoover and then NEVER even ran a play for him.

I don't care what the Thomas' head coach SAYS he knew or didn't know; I mean I'm sure he is going to come out and say "Oh yeah, I knew we were cheating, not a big deal is it?" I'm sorry, but as I have said, IMO Lavin has been a train wreck. One last comment, Lavin certainly deserves some legitimate credit for the way Harrison has turned around but if Harrison didn't show the intestinal fortitude he did by staying here just imagine this team without him the last two years.

 

[1and1sju]

So let me ask you, lawmanfan, Avon, and Logen;

Is there anything Lavin can do between now and April that would make you consider bringing him back or giving him an extension?

I'm honestly curious, because I thought I was passionately critical of SL, but even I'm willing to keep him if he hits a series of very significant accomplishments (make the NCAAs, land Diallo, etc)

 

[beast of the east]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

I wouldn't buy my son a BMW under any circumstance hahaha

But lawman, I think that if Lavin were to sign Diallo and one of the foreigners (the Italian or Greek) and a decent Juco like freeman, AND make the tournament- that would make me think that we are better off working with what we have; have Monasch force him to hire an associate head coach, or modify or have more input in the practice and recruiting plans etc, rather than scrap everything and start over.
Having success these next couple of months would not erase all of SL's flaws, but in my opinion if he can continue to recruit at a high level, and turns this year's team around - then the pros of keeping him out weigh the inherent risk in hiring someone else.

I don't expect that to happen though. The mistakes he's made have left us so shorthanded, and the seniors have played 4 years without a cohesive offense or good ball movement habits, that I think the team will continue to struggle.

Bringing Lavin back (and in essence giving him a multi year extension) based on the criteria listed above would be absurd.

First of all, based on the recruits Lavin has brought in, I would think that there will be some sort of fiasco with the 2015 class when its all set and done, whether its kids who dont meet eligibility requirements, kids who will transfer, kids who will never make it to campus, kids who will fanagle a way out of their commitments etc. The past repeats itself. Even if Diallo does come here, he will leave us after one year, then what are we left with? Who replaces him? Then we are back at "we have a thin roster, no recruits on the horizon and a coach with two or three years left on his deal."

Also, as lawman stated, i think the entire body of work for "Slick" should be evaluated, not on whether or not this team makes the NCAA Tournament. Remember, this senior class was the #3 incoming class in college basketball four seasons ago and we still havent seen them play in the NCAAs (and to boot, this senior class hasnt won a game in the Big East Tournament. The one post season victory is an NIT win vs St. Joes). Plus, lets be honest, the deck is stacked against us again this season - staring 0-4 in the face it will be an uphill battle to make the NCAAs, especially with the competitive balance in the Big East being much better than it was last year. We still have to play at Villanova, GTown, Xavier and Butler. I am sorry but with this razor thin lineup plus Slick's head scratching in game strategies, it would be miraculous for them to rise above the challenges ahead and win 11 in the league and make an NCAA Tourney.

There is no way you can justify bringing Slick back based on the overall body of work.

You're quite the prognosticator, that you can predict all those issues with the 2015 class.

Tell me, did you also see the issues with Jordan, Thomas, DLo (before his suspension), CO, et. al., when they were recruited?

Don't know if he did but Lavin should have seen some of the issues coming with the recruits he went after, especially the academic ones.

How in the world could anyone, let alone Lavin, know there was a systemic transcript scandal going on at Westchester Community College? Even the Head Coach there, Tyrone Mushatt, was not aware of what was going on. His Assistant Basketball coach was the one who provided phony transcripts and forged signatures. No way anyone outside of the program "should" have seen what was happening, until it all came out. Lavin can be blamed for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.

I did not realize Thomas was Lavin's only acaddemic issue. Make all the excuses you want but at the end of the day this program is in the position it is in because of Lavin, plain and simple.

Please read my posts. I'm not making excuses. Even the Head Coach there did not know what was going on. Oh wait. I know. You'll say he was clueless.

So, Lavin should have known Jordan would have his issues? He should have know that Moe wouldnt stay? Or he should have known that JaKaar wouldn't stay either? Lots of "shouldas" coming from you. Sounds to me like you're the one making all the excuses.

Should. One of the most dangerous words in the English language.

What I do know is Lavin SHOULD have been working his tail off recruiting and developing the players he did recruit; neither happened. Harkless, I certiainly give him a pass; but from Day 1 last year anyone could see Sampson was auditioning for the league but Lavin didn't know? He has handled Jordan wrong almost right from the start and got what he deserved; he knew early on what Jordan was because the kid has been a problem since he came here. Lavin got HIMSELF in trouble with Thomas/Balamou/, etc. type recruits because his laziness backed him in a corner where he wiould have taken almost anyone, including walk ons we were supposed to believe were going to make a difference in the program. He recruited and talked up Hoover and then NEVER even ran a play for him.

I don't care what the Thomas' head coach SAYS he knew or didn't know; I mean I'm sure he is going to come out and say "Oh yeah, I knew we were cheating, not a big deal is it?" I'm sorry, but as I have said, IMO Lavin has been a train wreck. One last comment, Lavin certainly deserves some legitimate credit for the way Harrison has turned around but if Harrison didn't show the intestinal fortitude he did by staying here just imagine this team without him the last two years.

What a pile of garbage. Seriously, are you drinking before during and after you write this. Give Lavin a pass for recruiting a 1st round NBA draft choice one and done? Blame Lavin for recruiting a 2 and done, and not knowing he was going to declare, who by the way was good enough o make an NBA roster? I agree Hooper, not Hoover was a mistake, but to blame Lavin for running enough plays for a kid who got the nod over Borgault and couldn't make the best of it - a kid whose claim to fame was blowing a sure win that likely would have gotten us an at large bid? And then there are you geniuses who hear a rumor that Lavin has been sitting on his ass not recruiting because you didn't see him at your local HS gym when 5 other colleges had somewhere there. It's a crazy pile of crap. You want to tell me he's failed to bring in enough talent, or failed to coach them to an NCAA bid, go ahead. But then shut up when you drool over Ed Cooley, because Providence who is 25-32 in the Big East in his 4th season got hot in a weakened BET? Then you give Lavin a backhanded compliment on Harrison but give Harrison all the credit for intestinal fortitude? What about this - Name one Looie team where three players in the starting five improved dramatically from year 1 to 4? I think you'd be hard pressed, because in watching Looie teams in person for 15 years I can't name 3 guys in all those years who improved over their entire careers. And while we are talking about Lavin being too easy on Jordan, do you remember Carnesecca throwing Curtis Redding out of the gym when he began rooting visibly for the opponent because he was benched? You don't because Carnesecca stood there and did nothing. Every kid and coach is different, and I don't tknow that there is a better, more effective way to handle Jordan - do you?

Trust me, there are enough things to be critical of Lavin that are legitimate, but if you are going to crap on him, at least aim straight.

 

[Class of 72]

So let me ask you, lawmanfan, Avon, and Logen;

Is there anything Lavin can do between now and April that would make you consider bringing him back or giving him an extension?

I'm honestly curious, because I thought I was passionately critical of SL, but even I'm willing him to keep him if he hits a series of very significant accomplishments (make the NCAAs, land Diallo, etc)

The majority are critical of Lavin's record to date and not to beat a dead horse but unless this team crashes, I think he would get an extension if he landed a stellar class and players return. I think a change will come in the assistant ranks. Isaiah Briscoe played him (and us) but everyone else is still on the radar. When Chris McCullough spurned us for the hated Orange I gave him the mal' occhio and you see what happened. I have sent the same corne' to Briscoe! Don't jerk Alma Mater around!

 

[JohnnyFan]

My guess is that if Lavin lands one more top domestic recruit (i.e. Lovett, Mussini, Diallo or Freeman), he will be given an extension. In that case, I can only hope that an impactful new assistant is hired.

Of course, my preference would be to part ways. I just feel that another strong young recruiting class will be destined for the same lavin-esque narrative.

 

[redfan259999888]

My guess is that if Lavin lands one more top domestic recruit (i.e. Lovett, Mussini, Diallo or Freeman), he will be given an extension. In that case, I can only hope an impactfull new assistant is hired.

Of course, my preference would be to part ways. I just feel that another strong young recruiting class will be destined for the same lavin-esque narrative.

That's why I'm willing to give him 2 more years if no ncaa appearance this year, but gets a nice class for next year. He'll have two years to do something with them.
And, ya never know when he'll take recruiting years off again, which is why only short extensions. It's then up to him to agree to it, if not then bye.
Short terms extensions will keep him working his ass off to recruit.

 

[monte]

Its telling that 5 years in to Lavin's tenure and many are still questioning his work ethic and/or suggesting that the administration mandate that he hire an assistant to compensate for his deficiencies. Very telling.