Next Coach?

[JohnnyFan]

If this was anti-Lavin talk, people would be screaming that the thread has been hijacked.

It's funny, you are one of the posters that gets more animated, more active, when it comes to accentuating everything that's wrong as opposed to celebrating what's right.

Everything posted regarding the criminality of a Cluess player who was allowed to resume play after a brief suspension. The entire matter is germane since Cluess would be among the candidates seriously considered, and the issue was raised in a manner that discredited Cluess. When we are discussing potential new coaches it is relevant and not hijacked.

Then again, it's a lot more fun for some to simply repeat all the ways in which you perceive Lavin to suck, which in effect is lack of wins attributed to 3 or 4 major categories of his deficiencies and character assassinations.

Point taken. I guess I was getting a little bored with the definitions of assault.

Regarding my posts, I would invite you to read my post immedia tell following Midnight Madness and the St. Mary's game where I was quite complimentary of the coach. I do try to give credit when credit is due.

That said, Sampson is an excellent acquisition. I thought he was long gone after Briscoe spurned us. Great job by Lavin closing this deal.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Having been a college admission representative for 9 years and an educator for more than 42 years, I can tell you that a highly successful St John's basketball team would likely boost the application rate and enrollment.

I know it sounds ridiculous but it's true. Kids pick colleges for crazy reasons. I have a good friend whose son went to Indiana because Bobby Knight was their basketball coach. Go figure.

I met an alum from Michigan several years ago who told me that one year, their application rate increased by more than 15 percent because they beat Notre Dame in football that fall.

Having a successful athletic program has a big impact on many high school seniors and plays a significant role in the schools they choose to attend. While the new President has a lot on his plate, making a decision about the future of the men's basketball program is not an insignificant one.

This is absolutely true. There have been studies done on it. I wouldn't doubt the Mullin years had a noticeable impact on SJU enrollment.

Not only does it impact applications - it also has an impact on fund raising.
i.e. see the massive increase in donations from the Johny Manziel impact at Texas A&M:

"Aggie boosters have been showing Johnny Manziel the money. The Austin-American Statesman is reporting that Texas A&M University raised $740 million in donations in the past year (ending August 31), a 70 percent increase over their previous record. That was nearly double the $400 million raised by the University of Texas over the same period."

damn must be nice to have oil money. thats some serious cash

I'm pretty sure those donations are going to be down this year with oil closing at less than $46 a barrel... better for you and me at the gas station though!

And to heat the house. I'm actually regretting locking my home heating oil at $3.39 a few months ago.

The $37 to fill my car last week was nice since it used to be over $60 last year though

 

[beast of the east]

If this was anti-Lavin talk, people would be screaming that the thread has been hijacked.

It's funny, you are one of the posters that gets more animated, more active, when it comes to accentuating everything that's wrong as opposed to celebrating what's right.

Everything posted regarding the criminality of a Cluess player who was allowed to resume play after a brief suspension. The entire matter is germane since Cluess would be among the candidates seriously considered, and the issue was raised in a manner that discredited Cluess. When we are discussing potential new coaches it is relevant and not hijacked.

Then again, it's a lot more fun for some to simply repeat all the ways in which you perceive Lavin to suck, which in effect is lack of wins attributed to 3 or 4 major categories of his deficiencies and character assassinations.

Point taken. I guess I was getting a little bored with the definitions of assault.

Regarding my posts, I would invite you to read my post immedia tell following Midnight Madness and the St. Mary's game where I was quite complimentary of the coach. I do try to give credit when credit is due.

That said, Sampson is an excellent acquisition. I thought he was long gone after Briscoe spurned us. Great job by Lavin closing this deal.

I've read a lot of your posts, and I like a lot of them. I also recall that you sit near the SJU bench and have tried to meet other redmen.com'ers, which tells me you aren't one of these guys who torch a site with garbage anonymously and disappear. Sorry if my reaction was harsh. All I hope for on here is to encounter balanced fans who ultimately want us to win.

 

[doodyny33]

Lav is not going anywhere...

Signing one recruit doesn't change the overall situation.
He'll be in the announcing booth next season.

I think the criticism of Lavin is overdone. I am of the opinion he will be back next season and I want him back at st johns next season. I also still believe that as long as we keep the parts of this team that we need ie the six man rotation that we have- this team will start winning and will be a force in the BE as well as the Big Dance. Jordan had an awful game against Nova and that isnt going to happen again. This team is going to get back on track and on the move. Go Redmen!!! my apologies to the politcally correct generation

I am 100% in Lavin's corner. I want him to succeed here. But I don't think the criticism is overdone. Harrison, Pointer, Greene, and Branch are all seniors and they have yet to make the NCAA Tournament. If the team were to miss the tourney for a fourth consecutive year, that is a tremendous failure by our coaching staff.

And not to sound like a broken record here, but he's done a pathetic job recruiting the last few seasons. Our top reserves are non existent (JDR, Jones, Balamou, Alibegovic).

 

[simplyred]

Lav is not going anywhere...

Signing one recruit doesn't change the overall situation.
He'll be in the announcing booth next season.

I think the criticism of Lavin is overdone. I am of the opinion he will be back next season and I want him back at st johns next season. I also still believe that as long as we keep the parts of this team that we need ie the six man rotation that we have- this team will start winning and will be a force in the BE as well as the Big Dance. Jordan had an awful game against Nova and that isnt going to happen again. This team is going to get back on track and on the move. Go Redmen!!! my apologies to the politcally correct generation

I am 100% in Lavin's corner. I want him to succeed here. But I don't think the criticism is overdone. Harrison, Pointer, Greene, and Branch are all seniors and they have yet to make the NCAA Tournament. If the team were to miss the tourney for a fourth consecutive year, that is a tremendous failure by our coaching staff.

And not to sound like a broken record here, but he's done a pathetic job recruiting the last few seasons. Our top reserves are non existent (JDR, Jones, Balamou, Alibegovic).

He's had one bad year of recruiting, and that is really accentuated by the Keith Thomas situation. Had Thomas qualified and we were 13-2 right now, we would not be complaining about the lack of production from Alibegovic.

This year was looking bleak but seems to have taken a positive turn. Not making the tournament is a bigger problem than the recruiting.

 

[1and1sju]

Lav is not going anywhere...

Signing one recruit doesn't change the overall situation.
He'll be in the announcing booth next season.

I think the criticism of Lavin is overdone. I am of the opinion he will be back next season and I want him back at st johns next season. I also still believe that as long as we keep the parts of this team that we need ie the six man rotation that we have- this team will start winning and will be a force in the BE as well as the Big Dance. Jordan had an awful game against Nova and that isnt going to happen again. This team is going to get back on track and on the move. Go Redmen!!! my apologies to the politcally correct generation

I am 100% in Lavin's corner. I want him to succeed here. But I don't think the criticism is overdone. Harrison, Pointer, Greene, and Branch are all seniors and they have yet to make the NCAA Tournament. If the team were to miss the tourney for a fourth consecutive year, that is a tremendous failure by our coaching staff.

And not to sound like a broken record here, but he's done a pathetic job recruiting the last few seasons. Our top reserves are non existent (JDR, Jones, Balamou, Alibegovic).

He's had one bad year of recruiting, and that is really accentuated by the Keith Thomas situation. Had Thomas qualified and we were 13-2 right now, we would not be complaining about the lack of production from Alibegovic.

This year was looking bleak but seems to have taken a positive turn. Not making the tournament is a bigger problem than the recruiting.

It's more than just 1 year Simplyred, and you know this. Obekpa and Jakarr were the last recruits to produce at a high level. None of the second tier recruits look capable of being even role players at the high-major level (jones, balamou) and Jordan has been a disappointment on and off the court.
Not to mention the eligibility issues of ADR and Thomas. And there were reasons to be susceptible of both. Other programs backed away citing academic concerns.

So, while I don't want to make this one sided, and I do recognize that Sampson is a terrific commit, the recruiting woes go back more than 1 season.
Roster management, which encompasses recruiting, has been Lavin's biggest weakness

 

[1and1sju]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

 

[simplyred]

Last point, Desco. In the 2013 class, We had on scholly to give (without going into the Amir transfer argument) and we gave it to Rysheed, who was highly rated and played the position we most needed to fill. That was not a "bad class." Yes, you can look now and complain about his attitude but you cannot say he wasn't a goog pickup. If he averages 20 next year (assuming he stays), do you revisit the topic and upgrade the recruiting class? It is judged by the quality of the player at the time. Not whether he will later reaches his potential.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Lav is not going anywhere...

Signing one recruit doesn't change the overall situation.
He'll be in the announcing booth next season.

I think the criticism of Lavin is overdone. I am of the opinion he will be back next season and I want him back at st johns next season. I also still believe that as long as we keep the parts of this team that we need ie the six man rotation that we have- this team will start winning and will be a force in the BE as well as the Big Dance. Jordan had an awful game against Nova and that isnt going to happen again. This team is going to get back on track and on the move. Go Redmen!!! my apologies to the politcally correct generation

I am 100% in Lavin's corner. I want him to succeed here. But I don't think the criticism is overdone. Harrison, Pointer, Greene, and Branch are all seniors and they have yet to make the NCAA Tournament. If the team were to miss the tourney for a fourth consecutive year, that is a tremendous failure by our coaching staff.

And not to sound like a broken record here, but he's done a pathetic job recruiting the last few seasons. Our top reserves are non existent (JDR, Jones, Balamou, Alibegovic).

He's had one bad year of recruiting, and that is really accentuated by the Keith Thomas situation. Had Thomas qualified and we were 13-2 right now, we would not be complaining about the lack of production from Alibegovic.

This year was looking bleak but seems to have taken a positive turn. Not making the tournament is a bigger problem than the recruiting.

It's more than just 1 year Simplyred, and you know this. Obekpa and Jakarr were the last recruits to produce at a high level. None of the second tier recruits look capable of being even role players at the high-major level (jones, balamou) and Jordan has been a disappointment on and off the court.
Not to mention the eligibility issues of ADR and Thomas. And there were reasons to be susceptible of both. Other programs backed away citing academic concerns.

So, while I don't want to make this one sided, and I do recognize that Sampson is a terrific commit, the recruiting woes go back more than 1 season.
Roster management, which encompasses recruiting, has been Lavin's biggest weakness

You can't say that Sampson and obekpa have played at a high level and rysheed has not, IMO.

 

[austour]

Lav is not going anywhere...

Signing one recruit doesn't change the overall situation.
He'll be in the announcing booth next season.

I think the criticism of Lavin is overdone. I am of the opinion he will be back next season and I want him back at st johns next season. I also still believe that as long as we keep the parts of this team that we need ie the six man rotation that we have- this team will start winning and will be a force in the BE as well as the Big Dance. Jordan had an awful game against Nova and that isnt going to happen again. This team is going to get back on track and on the move. Go Redmen!!! my apologies to the politcally correct generation

I am 100% in Lavin's corner. I want him to succeed here. But I don't think the criticism is overdone. Harrison, Pointer, Greene, and Branch are all seniors and they have yet to make the NCAA Tournament. If the team were to miss the tourney for a fourth consecutive year, that is a tremendous failure by our coaching staff.

And not to sound like a broken record here, but he's done a pathetic job recruiting the last few seasons. Our top reserves are non existent (JDR, Jones, Balamou, Alibegovic).

He's had one bad year of recruiting, and that is really accentuated by the Keith Thomas situation. Had Thomas qualified and we were 13-2 right now, we would not be complaining about the lack of production from Alibegovic.

This year was looking bleak but seems to have taken a positive turn. Not making the tournament is a bigger problem than the recruiting.

It's more than just 1 year Simplyred, and you know this. Obekpa and Jakarr were the last recruits to produce at a high level. None of the second tier recruits look capable of being even role players at the high-major level (jones, balamou) and Jordan has been a disappointment on and off the court.
Not to mention the eligibility issues of ADR and Thomas. And there were reasons to be susceptible of both. Other programs backed away citing academic concerns.

So, while I don't want to make this one sided, and I do recognize that Sampson is a terrific commit, the recruiting woes go back more than 1 season.
Roster management, which encompasses recruiting, has been Lavin's biggest weakness

Well we know the 2013 class was as good as he could do. One ride to give, a top 30 player recruited. So I guess you're complaining about 2012, a class that included Jakarr, Sanchez and Obekpa. Fair point, I guess.

 

[lawmanfan]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

 

[mjmaherjr]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

you will save more than a bmw on college tuition those 2 years

 

[beast of the east]

Lavin's 5 years plus 1

2009-2010 Norm's final season. The players starting the most games for Norm include Boothe (32 games), Horne (32), Kennedy (31), Evans (31) Mason (15), Coker (9), and Burrell (8). the team loses in the 1st round of the NIT. Hardy starts just 2 games, Brownlee 3.

2010-2011. Mason graduates. Lavin takes team to NCAAs and one torrid run. players starting the most games include Hardy (33), Brownlee (31), Kennedy (31), Polee (27), and Horne (20). Evans starts just 1 game, Burrell 1 game, and boothe 11, Bobre is angry that Evans is sitting, among the first Lavin critics. Polee departs for home upset that Bobre doesn't like him.

2011-2012 Lavin replenishes roster whose only carryover is Malik Stith, who departs mid season for D2. Recruits Harrison, Pointer, Greene, Harkless, Garrett, Lindsay, and Achiuwa (?). Lavin is out nearly the entire season with cancer. Dunlap coaches this group, and Lindsay quits after 9 games, all shaky starts. Team goes 13-19. Harkless goes to the NBA. Fans start blaming Lavin for bad season, going so far as to say the cancer shouldn't have kept him away. Some criticize Lavin for bringing in a one-and-done player (Harkless)

2012-2013. Branch become eligible. Lavin brings in Sampson, Obekpa, Christian Jones, Balamou, and Sanchez (ruled ineligible). and Borgault. Team goes 17-16, 8-10 in conf, playing mostly freshmen and sophs. UCLA criticisms resurface, saying Lavin can recruit but can't coach.

2013-2014. With one scholarship, Lavin brings in Jordan, his highly ranked recruit. Team improves to 20-13, 10-8. Team is competitive but falters at end of games. Loses close 1st round BET game that could have gotten them an at large bid to eventual BET champion Providence. Lavin takes the heat from more fans.

2014-2015. Team gets off to 11-1 start, and #15 ranking. Fans begin making tourney travel plans by calling about reverse mortgages, and clamor to extend LAvin. Team loses three in a row. Same fans begin wondering if an SJU team will make the NCAA again before they die. Fans retreat to their barns to get pitchforks and torches to kill the beast (Lavin, not me - maybe). Lavin brings in his first big recruit since Jordan, prozaccing some bipolar fans for the time being.

Fire him? Extend him? Wait and see?

 

[Marillac]

With the above said, make the tournament and ink Diallo and this entire thread is a moot point, because Steve Lavin will be getting a 4 year extension. And I won't say boo about it.

So if your kid had a D average for 3 years and then somehow pulled out a B+ in his senior year you'd buy him a BMW to drive to the local community college?

If all the fans on this board were gathered in a room before the Lavin hiring and told that by the end of his original contract Lavin would:

-Make two NCAA Tournament
-Make two NIT Tournaments
-Sign the top 3 overall class in 2011
-Sign 3-4 NBA players
-Win 20 or more games three times
-Have us ranked in the top 15 in two seasons
-Sign 10 top 75 RSCI ranked recruits and two JUCO All-Americans
-Be recruiting head to head against Kansas and Kentucky as finalists on several occasions
-Beat Syracuse on the road and Duke and Uconn by an average of over 20 points at some point
-But would also have a few hiccups from inelgible players and transfers

We would not have to caucus for long before we would have been in almost unanimity that he should be hired.

By signing that absurd 2011 class, he raised all of our expectations to unfair levels. I think he learned a lot from that class and would do it over if he could.

If he wasn't a flawed coach, he would not still be here. What he can do, what he has proven he can do in every single season he has coached with the excpetion of 2014, is to be able to recruit top 50-75 players consistently. If he was't as ethical and loyal to his guys, 2014 would have included a top 25 McDonald's All-American and would not have been the lone exception. This 2015 class is already shaping up to be really impressive and that is after barely missing on a kid that would have been the best recruit in 15-20 years.

 

[action264]

When Lavin was hired, no one would have been excited to see the team make the tourney once every four years, not that that has even happened yet. Also, he's failed to stagger the classes, just as Norm had, so that's really the best he can hope for.

Please also don't refer to the '11 class as #3 in the country. It doesn't count when half the players don't qualify. There's a reason we were able to get commitments from otherwise talented recruits.

 

[simplyred]

When Norm's senior Class graduated, Lavin had 10 scholarships to fill. This year, 4 seniors are graduating. I would submit that Lavin has balanced the classes. That two kids may leave before they are ready is really beyond his control.

 

[beast of the east]

When Lavin was hired, no one would have been excited to see the team make the tourney once every four years, not that that has even happened yet. Also, he's failed to stagger the classes, just as Norm had, so that's really the best he can hope for.

Please also don't refer to the '11 class as #3 in the country. It doesn't count when half the players don't qualify. There's a reason we were able to get commitments from otherwise talented recruits.

How can you possibly perfectly stagger the classes when you start with zero Big East players in your second season? Of course you have a roster to fill with mostly freshmen. We are almost freed of that. This isn't the NBA where Donnie Walsh could work magic to get rid of long term contracts for bad players that Isaiah Thomas saddled the Knicks with. Norm was fighting for his life, couldn't recruit, and could give a hoot about 2011-2012 because if he didn't win he was gone anyway.

 

[action264]

I'm not saying the classes need to be perfectly staggered. However, with JUCO players, transfers, and redshirts, a better balance could have been found. The real problem is that he signed Thomas, ADR, JDR, Stewart, and Amar to '15 class. If any of those five players were contributing, the near future of the program would be a lot less concerning.

 

[simplyred]

I agree that this year's freshman class is not great. That is causing some problems already with our lack of depth, and it may hurt us going forward if next year's class isn't ready to carry the load from day one.

 

[beast of the east]

I'm not saying the classes need to be perfectly staggered. However, with JUCO players, transfers, and redshirts, a better balance could have been found. The real problem is that he signed Thomas, ADR, JDR, Stewart, and Amar to '15 class. If any of those five players were contributing, the near future of the program would be a lot less concerning.

The issue you raise is one of quality mostly, right? I'd agree with you there. None of them appear to be star(ter) caliber at this point, but we will see.