I haven't given up on Lavin yet; the incoming class will have something to say about that. But down the road a ways -- provided he shows he can win at this level -- I wouldn't mind seeing Orlando Antigua return to New York. He's young, very well connected, and he's spent a lot of time assisting a couple of top-tier coaches. The only question is: how will he do as a head coach the next two or three years? Time will tell.
Next Coach?
- Thread starter Knight
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I haven't given up on Lavin yet; the incoming class will have something to say about that. But down the road a ways -- provided he shows he can win at this level -- I wouldn't mind seeing Orlando Antigua return to New York. He's young, very well connected, and he's spent a lot of time assisting a couple of top-tier coaches. The only question is: how will he do as a head coach the next two or three years? Time will tell.
Class of 72
Active member
You and I knew a different RR. I never found him to be warm or friendly. Many years ago I attended many high school games of potential recruits and he and Brian were fixtures in the gyms. Brian was approachable, RR was not. Yes, he was utilized to recruit "above 125th street" but he was working under a legend for years and Fran was an incredible, aggressive recruiter with street cred. The players you mention signed on to play for the coach, who was a closer and not RR, who had imo, limited basketball I.Q. The I.Q. deficiency were very evident in the 3 years he and Brian started running the program into the ground. The best analogy I can think of is Norm Roberts operating without Bill Self to prop up his cred. As for his ties to SJ, I have rarely seen him at events or games after the Jarvis years and, as far as his contributions, from when he came out of retirement and was installed as an assistant coach to "spy" on Kevin Clark, to his search committee roles, he was amateurish at best, and destructive at worst for his recommendations. He, at the behest of LC, was instrumental in feeding Father "Kickback" Harrington, negatives about John Calipari when he was ours for the taking. He is, in the administrative roles he has had, a prime example of the Peter Principal. Yes, he was utilized to recruit local kids for closers like Louie and Fran but was a disaster in all other ways. Hey, maybe it's just me never forgiving him for transferring to C.W. Post to finish his illustrious college basketball career.
beast of the east
Active member
Your post was a revelation to me so i investigated. Intentionally or not yours and the other post illustrates everything wrong about these blog sites. Laury who had never been involved in any criminal activity prior was charged with misdemeanor assault. Misdemeanor assault is the instilling fear of being assaulted in someone. So if you get into an argument and threaten someone that can rise to the level of misdemeanor assault. Immediately iona suspended laury fir one game but after investigation lifted it. Im pretty sure by your response you thought that laury actually physically harmed someone and then put this on cluess without knowledge of details
Quite often Cleuss doesn't seem to have any control over his team. He routinely screams at players and they scream right back at him. Fun.
He was at the helm of the absolute, not-even-close, made-Norm-look-like-Phog-Allen worst coached game I have ever seen and will ever see.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/03/14/epic-meltdown-sends-iona-home-from-ncaa-tournament/
I'll make sure to bookmark this thread and repost it the first time his STJ team gives up a century to St. Mary's.
He was at the helm of the absolute, not-even-close, made-Norm-look-like-Phog-Allen worst coached game I have ever seen and will ever see.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/03/14/epic-meltdown-sends-iona-home-from-ncaa-tournament/
I'll make sure to bookmark this thread and repost it the first time his STJ team gives up a century to St. Mary's.
S 120.00 Assault in the third degree.
A person is guilty of assault in the third degree when:
1. With intent to cause physical injury to another person, he causes
such injury to such person or to a third person; or
2. He recklessly causes physical injury to another person; or
3. With criminal negligence, he causes physical injury to another
person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument.
Assault in the third degree is a class A misdemeanor.
=========
§ 120.15. Menacing in the third degree
A person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical injury.
beast of the east
Active member
Thank you, Justice Fun. You are qualified to respond to this. So a student goes to a house party, gets into a verbal altercation, and perhaps some magic words are uttered by an adversary. The person threatens to do him harm, and does it vociferously. So when the angry person leaves, the verbal sparring partner, fearful that the person who threatened him will return to do so, calls police. When they verify that indeed a threat has been made, and perhaps take a look at the size and physical attributes of the person who made the threat, decide to make an arrest.
How are these typically adjudicated, especially when there are no priors?
Question for you. Did you quote NYS law in the above?
With no physical contact, and just a charge of a threat, how does a university react?
beast of the east
Active member
ECC Coach of the year, 3 years running now.
Moose
Well-known member
Without knowledge of details? Kind of like how you didn't know an Iona player was arrested and your friend Mr Cluess didn't have such a pristine record
He was arrested, sat out one game, then came back. And he still has another court date so the issue isn't technically 'over'. That being said Cluess as Main Man pointed out is a raving lunatic on the sidelines. And as has been pointed out his teams ignore defense. (Some fascinating write-ups in the most recent ESPN the Magazine about how the most successful teams in College Hoops limit the number of possessions AKA teams with deliberate offenses and strong defenses. I will say I do find it interesting how he is able to turn lesser ranked players into offensive weapons.What was most interesting about Laury incident which I will admit I didn't follow for one second after it came out he was arrested was he was suspended for the game with no mention of the arrest. It was only after the game he returned then all of a sudden the arrest came to light.
If he happens to be our next coach I will begrudgingly accept it. But I think fans of SJU who I have a pretty good read on will soon grow tired of the lack of defense the team displays and his sideline antics.
That is the NY penal code. It seems to indicate that that the substance of assault is intent to cause bodily harm, as opposed to menacing, which requires intent to instill fear.
Grady Reynolds was charged with both assault 3rd and harassment. Charges were adjourned in contemplation of dismissal plus anger management and community service. The university did nothing. And clearly he learned skills for life because he was a choirboy after that.
beast of the east
Active member
This was reported in multiple news outlets as misdemeanor assault, which is described as threatening to cause bodily harm. From what I can determine no blows were struck. I don't know many/any programs that would take a player out off the court for a misdemeanor charge as opposed to a felony assault.
Thanks for adding your expertise to the matter. It was inferred in this discussion that the player in question caused bodily harm, but by the charge it appears a threat was made and nothing more. The direct inference here was that Cluess was somehow dirty or negligent by letting the kid play after a one game suspension.
beast of the east
Active member
Without knowledge of details? Kind of like how you didn't know an Iona player was arrested and your friend Mr Cluess didn't have such a pristine record
What was most interesting about Laury incident which I will admit I didn't follow for one second after it came out he was arrested was he was suspended for the game with no mention of the arrest. It was only after the game he returned then all of a sudden the arrest came to light.
If he happens to be our next coach I will begrudgingly accept it. But I think fans of SJU who I have a pretty good read on will soon grow tired of the lack of defense the team displays and his sideline antics.
I don't think our fans would give a hoot if our lack of defense was part of a package that included regular trips to the NCAA tournament. I would offer that teams that score a lot of points are a lot more attractive to recruits than teams that routinely run the clock down to launch frantic low percentage shots (sound familiar?). As far as screaming at players, it appears to me that Cluess is closer to his players than many coaches, and if he wins, do you really care if he is animated on the sidelines? Looie spent entire guys screaming himself hoarse. For the record, all I care about it winning, so long as the next coach plays by the rules. As far as I know, Cluess has never been sanctioned for recruiting violations, and we can't say that about coaches on redmen.com dream lists.
Giving up so many points in MAAC & making NCAA Tourney may not translate to that level of success in BE, where games tend to be hotly contested defensive battles. Just my opinion Beast. That said, no one can refute the fact that Cluess has won at every program he has coached, across multiple levels of competition.
Without knowledge of details? Kind of like how you didn't know an Iona player was arrested and your friend Mr Cluess didn't have such a pristine record
What was most interesting about Laury incident which I will admit I didn't follow for one second after it came out he was arrested was he was suspended for the game with no mention of the arrest. It was only after the game he returned then all of a sudden the arrest came to light.
If he happens to be our next coach I will begrudgingly accept it. But I think fans of SJU who I have a pretty good read on will soon grow tired of the lack of defense the team displays and his sideline antics.
I don't think our fans would give a hoot if our lack of defense was part of a package that included regular trips to the NCAA tournament. I would offer that teams that score a lot of points are a lot more attractive to recruits than teams that routinely run the clock down to launch frantic low percentage shots (sound familiar?). As far as screaming at players, it appears to me that Cluess is closer to his players than many coaches, and if he wins, do you really care if he is animated on the sidelines? Looie spent entire guys screaming himself hoarse. For the record, all I care about it winning, so long as the next coach plays by the rules. As far as I know, Cluess has never been sanctioned for recruiting violations, and we can't say that about coaches on redmen.com dream lists.
beast of the east
Active member
Giving up so many points in MAAC & making NCAA Tourney may not translate to that level of success in BE, where games tend to be hotly contested defensive battles. Just my opinion Beast. That said, no one can refute the fact that Cluess has won at every program he has coached, across multiple levels of competition.
Without knowledge of details? Kind of like how you didn't know an Iona player was arrested and your friend Mr Cluess didn't have such a pristine record
What was most interesting about Laury incident which I will admit I didn't follow for one second after it came out he was arrested was he was suspended for the game with no mention of the arrest. It was only after the game he returned then all of a sudden the arrest came to light.
If he happens to be our next coach I will begrudgingly accept it. But I think fans of SJU who I have a pretty good read on will soon grow tired of the lack of defense the team displays and his sideline antics.
I don't think our fans would give a hoot if our lack of defense was part of a package that included regular trips to the NCAA tournament. I would offer that teams that score a lot of points are a lot more attractive to recruits than teams that routinely run the clock down to launch frantic low percentage shots (sound familiar?). As far as screaming at players, it appears to me that Cluess is closer to his players than many coaches, and if he wins, do you really care if he is animated on the sidelines? Looie spent entire guys screaming himself hoarse. For the record, all I care about it winning, so long as the next coach plays by the rules. As far as I know, Cluess has never been sanctioned for recruiting violations, and we can't say that about coaches on redmen.com dream lists.
It's a reasonable point to raise. I was thinking that if his teams put up a lot of points, one thing every kid selecting a program wants to do (aside from winning) is scoring points, which attracts attention. As long as Cluess isn't choking fans outside arenas, throwing chairs in foreign countries, I'm okay with him yelling at players as long as he wins. Come to think of it, the other coach who did that was pretty safe doing all of those things as long as he won also.
Whether it be Cluess or anyone else, wouldn't it be great if a guy came here, won, and wasn't looking for this to be his stepping stone? Wouldn't it be great to know a guy we hire could be successful and retire from here like Lapchick and Lou? Or be a St. John's guy himself like Lou?
Of course only winning really matters. But the other things would be nice, too.
J.
Fair pointsGiving up so many points in MAAC & making NCAA Tourney may not translate to that level of success in BE, where games tend to be hotly contested defensive battles. Just my opinion Beast. That said, no one can refute the fact that Cluess has won at every program he has coached, across multiple levels of competition.
Without knowledge of details? Kind of like how you didn't know an Iona player was arrested and your friend Mr Cluess didn't have such a pristine record
What was most interesting about Laury incident which I will admit I didn't follow for one second after it came out he was arrested was he was suspended for the game with no mention of the arrest. It was only after the game he returned then all of a sudden the arrest came to light.
If he happens to be our next coach I will begrudgingly accept it. But I think fans of SJU who I have a pretty good read on will soon grow tired of the lack of defense the team displays and his sideline antics.
I don't think our fans would give a hoot if our lack of defense was part of a package that included regular trips to the NCAA tournament. I would offer that teams that score a lot of points are a lot more attractive to recruits than teams that routinely run the clock down to launch frantic low percentage shots (sound familiar?). As far as screaming at players, it appears to me that Cluess is closer to his players than many coaches, and if he wins, do you really care if he is animated on the sidelines? Looie spent entire guys screaming himself hoarse. For the record, all I care about it winning, so long as the next coach plays by the rules. As far as I know, Cluess has never been sanctioned for recruiting violations, and we can't say that about coaches on redmen.com dream lists.
It's a reasonable point to raise. I was thinking that if his teams put up a lot of points, one thing every kid selecting a program wants to do (aside from winning) is scoring points, which attracts attention. As long as Cluess isn't choking fans outside arenas, throwing chairs in foreign countries, I'm okay with him yelling at players as long as he wins. Come to think of it, the other coach who did that was pretty safe doing all of those things as long as he won also.
Whether it be Cluess or anyone else, wouldn't it be great if a guy came here, won, and wasn't looking for this to be his stepping stone? Wouldn't it be great to know a guy we hire could be successful and retire from here like Lapchick and Lou? Or be a St. John's guy himself like Lou?
Of course only winning really matters. But the other things would be nice, too.
Sorry, you're incorrect. There is no such crime as "misdemeanor assault." There is a crime called Assault 3rd, which is a misdemeanor. Assault 3 requires proof that the accused caused physical injury. There's nothing in the statute about threats. If no blow was struck he would have been charged with menacing or harassment.
beast of the east
Active member
As with anyone with a professional knowledge I yield to your expertise. However,
http://misdemeanorguide.com/Misdemeanor-assault.php
This and other references refer to the term misdemeanor assault. Thank you for clarifying and presenting NYS law.
