NET rankings
- Thread starter ADORAZ
- Start date
[quote="Andrew" post=308663]Looks to me like the Big East has four definite spots in the NCAA and one on the bubble. We have our work cut out for us.[/quote]
I wouldn't be too confident. Nobody really understands this metric yet and it looks like it could penalize leagues with more parity and less opportunity to destroy bottom-dwellers. We figure to have a lot of near .500 records and close games from bubble teams.
I wouldn't be too confident. Nobody really understands this metric yet and it looks like it could penalize leagues with more parity and less opportunity to destroy bottom-dwellers. We figure to have a lot of near .500 records and close games from bubble teams.
[quote="Adam" post=309571]13 Marquette
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
SH deserves to be higher and its ranking highlights my fears of this flawed metric. 2/4 categories don't account for the quality of opponent and directly or indirectly reward teams for blowing out weak teams. There won't be many chances for blowouts in the Big East and 9 and 10 win teams will be penalized for playing in a league with zero pushovers.
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
SH deserves to be higher and its ranking highlights my fears of this flawed metric. 2/4 categories don't account for the quality of opponent and directly or indirectly reward teams for blowing out weak teams. There won't be many chances for blowouts in the Big East and 9 and 10 win teams will be penalized for playing in a league with zero pushovers.
[quote="Marillac" post=309574][quote="Adam" post=309571]13 Marquette
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
SH deserves to be higher and its ranking highlights my fears of this flawed metric. 2/4 categories don't account for the quality of opponent and directly or indirectly reward teams for blowing out weak teams. There won't be many chances for blowouts in the Big East and 9 and 10 win teams will be penalized for playing in a league with zero pushovers.[/quote]
I think if we go 10- 8 in conference that gets us to 22 wins prior to the BE tourney. I include a loss to Duke ( even though we will beat them). I would suggest with a win in the BE tourney we are in.
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
SH deserves to be higher and its ranking highlights my fears of this flawed metric. 2/4 categories don't account for the quality of opponent and directly or indirectly reward teams for blowing out weak teams. There won't be many chances for blowouts in the Big East and 9 and 10 win teams will be penalized for playing in a league with zero pushovers.[/quote]
I think if we go 10- 8 in conference that gets us to 22 wins prior to the BE tourney. I include a loss to Duke ( even though we will beat them). I would suggest with a win in the BE tourney we are in.
[quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=309576][quote="Marillac" post=309574][quote="Adam" post=309571]13 Marquette
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
SH deserves to be higher and its ranking highlights my fears of this flawed metric. 2/4 categories don't account for the quality of opponent and directly or indirectly reward teams for blowing out weak teams. There won't be many chances for blowouts in the Big East and 9 and 10 win teams will be penalized for playing in a league with zero pushovers.[/quote]
I think if we go 10- 8 in conference that gets us to 22 wins prior to the BE tourney. I include a loss to Duke ( even though we will beat them). I would suggest with a win in the BE tourney we are in.[/quote]
22 wins gets us in for sure. I'm hoping for a lot more than just making it though. We have Ponds.
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
SH deserves to be higher and its ranking highlights my fears of this flawed metric. 2/4 categories don't account for the quality of opponent and directly or indirectly reward teams for blowing out weak teams. There won't be many chances for blowouts in the Big East and 9 and 10 win teams will be penalized for playing in a league with zero pushovers.[/quote]
I think if we go 10- 8 in conference that gets us to 22 wins prior to the BE tourney. I include a loss to Duke ( even though we will beat them). I would suggest with a win in the BE tourney we are in.[/quote]
22 wins gets us in for sure. I'm hoping for a lot more than just making it though. We have Ponds.
[quote="gman" post=309579][quote="Adam" post=309571]13 Marquette
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
So playing and beating cupcakes matters more than having a couple of quality loses?[/quote]
What really is a quality loss though as far as measurables go? A loss is a loss. I. And of itself it shows no “quality” in it. Is it a bravery quotient for playing tougher teams? Maybe. If chaminade plays Duke and loses by 30 and SJU plays Duke and loses by 30 how does one measure that?
I believe the NET uses other factors as well like efficiency statistics. I’m not sold one way or the other. Bottom line though is that winning is a measurable positive and especially against tougher teams on the road. Bad losses to poor teams at home on the opposite end of the spectrum should be a double whammy. I’m sure strength oc schedule could cause us to take a hit, but we have won all of games, most by over that 10 point margin and we’ve been pretty efficient statistically.
27 St. John's
34 Villanova
39 Butler
53 Creighton
59 Seton Hall
69 Providence
80 Xavier
108 DePaul
130 Georgetown[/quote]
So playing and beating cupcakes matters more than having a couple of quality loses?[/quote]
What really is a quality loss though as far as measurables go? A loss is a loss. I. And of itself it shows no “quality” in it. Is it a bravery quotient for playing tougher teams? Maybe. If chaminade plays Duke and loses by 30 and SJU plays Duke and loses by 30 how does one measure that?
I believe the NET uses other factors as well like efficiency statistics. I’m not sold one way or the other. Bottom line though is that winning is a measurable positive and especially against tougher teams on the road. Bad losses to poor teams at home on the opposite end of the spectrum should be a double whammy. I’m sure strength oc schedule could cause us to take a hit, but we have won all of games, most by over that 10 point margin and we’ve been pretty efficient statistically.
We're up to #24!!!!!!! Moved up 12 spots.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.
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Our beloved St. Johns team did not get much "love" in either the AP or Coaches Rankings.
Counting the votes outside of the top 25 StJ's was # 38 in the AP rankings (tied with mighty Mean Green from North Texas) and #39 in the Coaches poll (tied with the Toledo Rockets.
* Personally I hope we stay unranked to allow the StJ's players top get a "chip" on their shoulders to prove the Coaches voting in the poll wrong. I wonder how many of the voting coaches would like to play StJ's this season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Counting the votes outside of the top 25 StJ's was # 38 in the AP rankings (tied with mighty Mean Green from North Texas) and #39 in the Coaches poll (tied with the Toledo Rockets.
* Personally I hope we stay unranked to allow the StJ's players top get a "chip" on their shoulders to prove the Coaches voting in the poll wrong. I wonder how many of the voting coaches would like to play StJ's this season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
[quote="Adam" post=311392]We're up to #24!!!!!!! Moved up 12 spots.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.[/quote]
Unfortunately this horrible metric will unfairly punish us for our remaining tough schedule.
-9 spots for a one possession loss to good SH team on the road is just unacceptable.
We'll need to beat a few more teams by 15-20. So much for sportsmanship.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.[/quote]
Unfortunately this horrible metric will unfairly punish us for our remaining tough schedule.
-9 spots for a one possession loss to good SH team on the road is just unacceptable.
We'll need to beat a few more teams by 15-20. So much for sportsmanship.
[quote="Marillac" post=311403][quote="Adam" post=311392]We're up to #24!!!!!!! Moved up 12 spots.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.[/quote]
Unfortunately this horrible metric will unfairly punish us for our remaining tough schedule.
-9 spots for a one possession loss to good SH team on the road is just unacceptable.
We'll need to beat a few more teams by 15-20. So much for sportsmanship.[/quote]
Thought NET value of wins was capped at 10 point differential. Maybe I am missing something.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.[/quote]
Unfortunately this horrible metric will unfairly punish us for our remaining tough schedule.
-9 spots for a one possession loss to good SH team on the road is just unacceptable.
We'll need to beat a few more teams by 15-20. So much for sportsmanship.[/quote]
Thought NET value of wins was capped at 10 point differential. Maybe I am missing something.
[quote="Marillac" post=311403][quote="Adam" post=311392]We're up to #24!!!!!!! Moved up 12 spots.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.[/quote]
Unfortunately this horrible metric will unfairly punish us for our remaining tough schedule.
-9 spots for a one possession loss to good SH team on the road is just unacceptable.
We'll need to beat a few more teams by 15-20. So much for sportsmanship.[/quote]
I think that move down had more to do with us losing our first game- but 9 spots for one game this early in the season isn't that much anyways. It was actually a bit better than I expected.
Currently our RPI (irrelevant now- from prior years) is #24, so we'd be in the exact same position as we are right now.
I think the current NET is a positive, as it shows our OOC NET is solid and won't hurt us.
We just need to take care of business during conference play. That is something we needed to do no matter what, and the team is more than capable of doing so.
I do agree that beating teams by 10+ certainly helps. Yet another reason to keep the foot on the pedal when we're ahead.
Big East:
22. Marquette
24. St. John's
33. Villanova
37. Creighton
46. Seton Hall
49. Butler
70. Xavier
89. Providence
122. Georgetown
140. DePaul
I know everyone wants the AP ranking, and we may be close to that, but NET is far more important. If NET says we're top 25, we're top 25.[/quote]
Unfortunately this horrible metric will unfairly punish us for our remaining tough schedule.
-9 spots for a one possession loss to good SH team on the road is just unacceptable.
We'll need to beat a few more teams by 15-20. So much for sportsmanship.[/quote]
I think that move down had more to do with us losing our first game- but 9 spots for one game this early in the season isn't that much anyways. It was actually a bit better than I expected.
Currently our RPI (irrelevant now- from prior years) is #24, so we'd be in the exact same position as we are right now.
I think the current NET is a positive, as it shows our OOC NET is solid and won't hurt us.
We just need to take care of business during conference play. That is something we needed to do no matter what, and the team is more than capable of doing so.
I do agree that beating teams by 10+ certainly helps. Yet another reason to keep the foot on the pedal when we're ahead.
[quote="otis" post=311402]Our beloved St. Johns team did not get much "love" in either the AP or Coaches Rankings.
Counting the votes outside of the top 25 StJ's was # 38 in the AP rankings (tied with mighty Mean Green from North Texas) and #39 in the Coaches poll (tied with the Toledo Rockets.
* Personally I hope we stay unranked to allow the StJ's players top get a "chip" on their shoulders to prove the Coaches voting in the poll wrong. I wonder how many of the voting coaches would like to play StJ's this season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings[/quote]
Given that STJ got only 1 25th place vote from one voter in each poll I think you get your wish. That said, hard to believe that anyone paying attention would not have noticed that the game, despite all efforts by the team to give it away, was actually a win stolen by the whistle and as such a bunch of guys who voted for STJ for a few weeks penalized what should be an undefeated team. It shows that the voters can't really keep up with what's going on with each team.
Counting the votes outside of the top 25 StJ's was # 38 in the AP rankings (tied with mighty Mean Green from North Texas) and #39 in the Coaches poll (tied with the Toledo Rockets.
* Personally I hope we stay unranked to allow the StJ's players top get a "chip" on their shoulders to prove the Coaches voting in the poll wrong. I wonder how many of the voting coaches would like to play StJ's this season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings[/quote]
Given that STJ got only 1 25th place vote from one voter in each poll I think you get your wish. That said, hard to believe that anyone paying attention would not have noticed that the game, despite all efforts by the team to give it away, was actually a win stolen by the whistle and as such a bunch of guys who voted for STJ for a few weeks penalized what should be an undefeated team. It shows that the voters can't really keep up with what's going on with each team.
[quote="austour" post=311439][quote="otis" post=311402]Our beloved St. Johns team did not get much "love" in either the AP or Coaches Rankings.
Counting the votes outside of the top 25 StJ's was # 38 in the AP rankings (tied with mighty Mean Green from North Texas) and #39 in the Coaches poll (tied with the Toledo Rockets.
* Personally I hope we stay unranked to allow the StJ's players top get a "chip" on their shoulders to prove the Coaches voting in the poll wrong. I wonder how many of the voting coaches would like to play StJ's this season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings[/quote]
Given that STJ got only 1 25th place vote from one voter in each poll I think you get your wish. That said, hard to believe that anyone paying attention would not have noticed that the game, despite all efforts by the team to give it away, was actually a win stolen by the whistle and as such a bunch of guys who voted for STJ for a few weeks penalized what should be an undefeated team. It shows that the voters can't really keep up with what's going on with each team.[/quote]
It's insane. We went from what was most likely going to be a Top 25 ranking to ONE vote all because of a blown whistle on the road against a team that just beat Maryland and UK. The AP is complete BS. As bad as it sounds I hope they just weren't paying attention, because otherwise their logic is completely ridiculous.
That said, they do dramatically overvalue Ws against Top 25 teams. I think we have a 50-50 shot at making the rankings if we beat Georgetown.
Counting the votes outside of the top 25 StJ's was # 38 in the AP rankings (tied with mighty Mean Green from North Texas) and #39 in the Coaches poll (tied with the Toledo Rockets.
* Personally I hope we stay unranked to allow the StJ's players top get a "chip" on their shoulders to prove the Coaches voting in the poll wrong. I wonder how many of the voting coaches would like to play StJ's this season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings[/quote]
Given that STJ got only 1 25th place vote from one voter in each poll I think you get your wish. That said, hard to believe that anyone paying attention would not have noticed that the game, despite all efforts by the team to give it away, was actually a win stolen by the whistle and as such a bunch of guys who voted for STJ for a few weeks penalized what should be an undefeated team. It shows that the voters can't really keep up with what's going on with each team.[/quote]
It's insane. We went from what was most likely going to be a Top 25 ranking to ONE vote all because of a blown whistle on the road against a team that just beat Maryland and UK. The AP is complete BS. As bad as it sounds I hope they just weren't paying attention, because otherwise their logic is completely ridiculous.
That said, they do dramatically overvalue Ws against Top 25 teams. I think we have a 50-50 shot at making the rankings if we beat Georgetown.
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We've moved up one spot to #23, after Hall's W @ Xavier last night.
Hall moved up from #46 to #41. Butler dropped from #49 to #62 after their home L to Georgetown. Georgetown moved up from #122 to #97.
I realize now that conference play has begun this stuff doesn't matter as much since we'll face everyone 2X, but always nice to move up in the rankings. Every new high is a milestone in my book. If we beat Georgetown, I think we'll move up into the high teens.
Hall moved up from #46 to #41. Butler dropped from #49 to #62 after their home L to Georgetown. Georgetown moved up from #122 to #97.
I realize now that conference play has begun this stuff doesn't matter as much since we'll face everyone 2X, but always nice to move up in the rankings. Every new high is a milestone in my book. If we beat Georgetown, I think we'll move up into the high teens.