NCAA corruption case poised to take down Hall of Fame coaches, top programs

[quote="Mean Gene" post=274453][quote="redken" post=274410][quote="Logen" post=274379][quote="redken" post=274120][quote="frank61" post=273890]If the NCAA does the investigation, and does not treat all schools and coaches the same way, then it would be a great time to shred the organization and start with an entire new organization. The time for 'FAVORITE COACHES OR SCHOOLS must end. Until then there will never be a level playing field. To continue knowing those things would be an act of stupidity. All schools should insist on a NEW ORGANIZATION.[/quote]
IMO starting a new organization is exactly what the Super 5 conferences hope to do in the long run. Problem is, their goal is to dominate the college $port$ market, have complete autonomy in dealing with "student-athletes" and other issues however they wish to, and have zero interest in including other conferences, to the point of trying to crush them if necessary (see Coach K's comments the last time the ACC raided Big East basketball).[/quote]

You can take that out of the opinion column, you state fact; anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves.[/quote]

Logen, I added the "IMO" at the last moment, trying not to sound like I had inside information. But you're right, it's plain to see that if and when it happens the entire collegiate sports landscape will be changed dramatically and possibly irreparably, especially for conferences like the Big East. The idea of participating in a non-Super-5 NCAA tournament would almost certainly put an end to signing Top 100 talent.[/quote]

I hear you Redken, but doesn’t CBS have contract with the NCAA through 2022 to televise the NCAA Tournament for a ton of money? I would think that contract would keep things the way they are at least until that contract runs out.[/quote]

There are contractual obligations, but I did write "in the long run" ... and think about it: 2022 is only four years down the line. As for TV existing contracts beyond 2022, money talks and the Super 5 have tons of it for buy-outs, re-negotiations, and whatever else stands in their way. And don't think for a moment that the major net\works wouldn't be jumping all over them.
 
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[quote="redken" post=274463][quote="Mean Gene" post=274453][quote="redken" post=274410][quote="Logen" post=274379][quote="redken" post=274120][quote="frank61" post=273890]If the NCAA does the investigation, and does not treat all schools and coaches the same way, then it would be a great time to shred the organization and start with an entire new organization. The time for 'FAVORITE COACHES OR SCHOOLS must end. Until then there will never be a level playing field. To continue knowing those things would be an act of stupidity. All schools should insist on a NEW ORGANIZATION.[/quote]
IMO starting a new organization is exactly what the Super 5 conferences hope to do in the long run. Problem is, their goal is to dominate the college $port$ market, have complete autonomy in dealing with "student-athletes" and other issues however they wish to, and have zero interest in including other conferences, to the point of trying to crush them if necessary (see Coach K's comments the last time the ACC raided Big East basketball).[/quote]

You can take that out of the opinion column, you state fact; anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves.[/quote]

Logen, I added the "IMO" at the last moment, trying not to sound like I had inside information. But you're right, it's plain to see that if and when it happens the entire collegiate sports landscape will be changed dramatically and possibly irreparably, especially for conferences like the Big East. The idea of participating in a non-Super-5 NCAA tournament would almost certainly put an end to signing Top 100 talent.[/quote]

I hear you Redken, but doesn’t CBS have contract with the NCAA through 2022 to televise the NCAA Tournament for a ton of money? I would think that contract would keep things the way they are at least until that contract runs out.[/quote]

There are contractual obligations, but I did write "in the long run" ... and think about it: 2022 is only four years down the line. As for TV existing contracts beyond 2022, money talks and the Super 5 have tons of it for buy-outs, re-negotiations, and whatever else stands in their way. And don't think for a moment that the major net\works wouldn't be jumping all over them.[/quote]

The contract was extended to 2032 another 8 years at 1.1 billion per year. I understand what your saying but that's a lot of money to walk away from and any buyout would also be enormous when dealing with those numbers. FOX would get involved and they have basically unlimited funds also and they would want the Big East involved basketball wise. With the Big East you're also dealing with major TV markets in New York, Philly, DC and Chicago. Especially if St. John's , Georgetown and DePaul get good again. That's why it is so important to the Big East to have those schools step it up right now.

I also think that part of the lure of the NCAA Tournament is the small to midsize schools that play in the tournament and the whole underdog aspect that those schools take on. Having those schools is what drives up viewership so that everyone is watching. Even someone who is not really a sports fan will watch and root for their school. If you take that away, the entire tournament loses a certain appeal that is has that draws viewership to it from the everyday person. But, I understand, if the answer to the question doesn't concern money them rephrase the question because everything is about money. That's why in the Big East we need our largest market teams to be really good and we need FOX on our side. We'll see how it plays out. All the best.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=274491][quote="redken" post=274463][quote="Mean Gene" post=274453][quote="redken" post=274410][quote="Logen" post=274379][quote="redken" post=274120][quote="frank61" post=273890]If the NCAA does the investigation, and does not treat all schools and coaches the same way, then it would be a great time to shred the organization and start with an entire new organization. The time for 'FAVORITE COACHES OR SCHOOLS must end. Until then there will never be a level playing field. To continue knowing those things would be an act of stupidity. All schools should insist on a NEW ORGANIZATION.[/quote]
IMO starting a new organization is exactly what the Super 5 conferences hope to do in the long run. Problem is, their goal is to dominate the college $port$ market, have complete autonomy in dealing with "student-athletes" and other issues however they wish to, and have zero interest in including other conferences, to the point of trying to crush them if necessary (see Coach K's comments the last time the ACC raided Big East basketball).[/quote]

You can take that out of the opinion column, you state fact; anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves.[/quote]

Logen, I added the "IMO" at the last moment, trying not to sound like I had inside information. But you're right, it's plain to see that if and when it happens the entire collegiate sports landscape will be changed dramatically and possibly irreparably, especially for conferences like the Big East. The idea of participating in a non-Super-5 NCAA tournament would almost certainly put an end to signing Top 100 talent.[/quote]

I hear you Redken, but doesn’t CBS have contract with the NCAA through 2022 to televise the NCAA Tournament for a ton of money? I would think that contract would keep things the way they are at least until that contract runs out.[/quote]

There are contractual obligations, but I did write "in the long run" ... and think about it: 2022 is only four years down the line. As for TV existing contracts beyond 2022, money talks and the Super 5 have tons of it for buy-outs, re-negotiations, and whatever else stands in their way. And don't think for a moment that the major net\works wouldn't be jumping all over them.[/quote]

The contract was extended to 2032 another 8 years at 1.1 billion per year. I understand what your saying but that's a lot of money to walk away from and any buyout would also be enormous when dealing with those numbers. FOX would get involved and they have basically unlimited funds also and they would want the Big East involved basketball wise. With the Big East you're also dealing with major TV markets in New York, Philly, DC and Chicago. Especially if St. John's , Georgetown and DePaul get good again. That's why it is so important to the Big East to have those schools step it up right now.

I also think that part of the lure of the NCAA Tournament is the small to midsize schools that play in the tournament and the whole underdog aspect that those schools take on. Having those schools is what drives up viewership so that everyone is watching. Even someone who is not really a sports fan will watch and root for their school. If you take that away, the entire tournament loses a certain appeal that is has that draws viewership to it from the everyday person. But, I understand, if the answer to the question doesn't concern money them rephrase the question because everything is about money. That's why in the Big East we need our largest market teams to be really good and we need FOX on our side. We'll see how it plays out. All the best.[/quote]

2032. Well, I guess I don't have to worry about the future of college basketball; I'll either be long gone or totally out of it by then.
 
[quote="redken" post=274503][quote="Mean Gene" post=274491][quote="redken" post=274463][quote="Mean Gene" post=274453][quote="redken" post=274410][quote="Logen" post=274379][quote="redken" post=274120][quote="frank61" post=273890]If the NCAA does the investigation, and does not treat all schools and coaches the same way, then it would be a great time to shred the organization and start with an entire new organization. The time for 'FAVORITE COACHES OR SCHOOLS must end. Until then there will never be a level playing field. To continue knowing those things would be an act of stupidity. All schools should insist on a NEW ORGANIZATION.[/quote]
IMO starting a new organization is exactly what the Super 5 conferences hope to do in the long run. Problem is, their goal is to dominate the college $port$ market, have complete autonomy in dealing with "student-athletes" and other issues however they wish to, and have zero interest in including other conferences, to the point of trying to crush them if necessary (see Coach K's comments the last time the ACC raided Big East basketball).[/quote]

You can take that out of the opinion column, you state fact; anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves.[/quote]

Logen, I added the "IMO" at the last moment, trying not to sound like I had inside information. But you're right, it's plain to see that if and when it happens the entire collegiate sports landscape will be changed dramatically and possibly irreparably, especially for conferences like the Big East. The idea of participating in a non-Super-5 NCAA tournament would almost certainly put an end to signing Top 100 talent.[/quote]

I hear you Redken, but doesn’t CBS have contract with the NCAA through 2022 to televise the NCAA Tournament for a ton of money? I would think that contract would keep things the way they are at least until that contract runs out.[/quote]

There are contractual obligations, but I did write "in the long run" ... and think about it: 2022 is only four years down the line. As for TV existing contracts beyond 2022, money talks and the Super 5 have tons of it for buy-outs, re-negotiations, and whatever else stands in their way. And don't think for a moment that the major net\works wouldn't be jumping all over them.[/quote]

The contract was extended to 2032 another 8 years at 1.1 billion per year. I understand what your saying but that's a lot of money to walk away from and any buyout would also be enormous when dealing with those numbers. FOX would get involved and they have basically unlimited funds also and they would want the Big East involved basketball wise. With the Big East you're also dealing with major TV markets in New York, Philly, DC and Chicago. Especially if St. John's , Georgetown and DePaul get good again. That's why it is so important to the Big East to have those schools step it up right now.

I also think that part of the lure of the NCAA Tournament is the small to midsize schools that play in the tournament and the whole underdog aspect that those schools take on. Having those schools is what drives up viewership so that everyone is watching. Even someone who is not really a sports fan will watch and root for their school. If you take that away, the entire tournament loses a certain appeal that is has that draws viewership to it from the everyday person. But, I understand, if the answer to the question doesn't concern money them rephrase the question because everything is about money. That's why in the Big East we need our largest market teams to be really good and we need FOX on our side. We'll see how it plays out. All the best.[/quote]

2032. Well, I guess I don't have to worry about the future of college basketball; I'll either be long gone or totally out of it by then.[/quote]

Red, I think you will still be wearing red and loving the game of basketball no matter what age you will be.
Old-People-Playing-Basketball-Photography_5.jpg
[/quote]
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=274541][quote="redken" post=274503][quote="Mean Gene" post=274491][quote="redken" post=274463][quote="Mean Gene" post=274453][quote="redken" post=274410][quote="Logen" post=274379][quote="redken" post=274120][quote="frank61" post=273890]If the NCAA does the investigation, and does not treat all schools and coaches the same way, then it would be a great time to shred the organization and start with an entire new organization. The time for 'FAVORITE COACHES OR SCHOOLS must end. Until then there will never be a level playing field. To continue knowing those things would be an act of stupidity. All schools should insist on a NEW ORGANIZATION.[/quote]
IMO starting a new organization is exactly what the Super 5 conferences hope to do in the long run. Problem is, their goal is to dominate the college $port$ market, have complete autonomy in dealing with "student-athletes" and other issues however they wish to, and have zero interest in including other conferences, to the point of trying to crush them if necessary (see Coach K's comments the last time the ACC raided Big East basketball).[/quote]

You can take that out of the opinion column, you state fact; anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves.[/quote]

Logen, I added the "IMO" at the last moment, trying not to sound like I had inside information. But you're right, it's plain to see that if and when it happens the entire collegiate sports landscape will be changed dramatically and possibly irreparably, especially for conferences like the Big East. The idea of participating in a non-Super-5 NCAA tournament would almost certainly put an end to signing Top 100 talent.[/quote]

I hear you Redken, but doesn’t CBS have contract with the NCAA through 2022 to televise the NCAA Tournament for a ton of money? I would think that contract would keep things the way they are at least until that contract runs out.[/quote]

There are contractual obligations, but I did write "in the long run" ... and think about it: 2022 is only four years down the line. As for TV existing contracts beyond 2022, money talks and the Super 5 have tons of it for buy-outs, re-negotiations, and whatever else stands in their way. And don't think for a moment that the major net\works wouldn't be jumping all over them.[/quote]

The contract was extended to 2032 another 8 years at 1.1 billion per year. I understand what your saying but that's a lot of money to walk away from and any buyout would also be enormous when dealing with those numbers. FOX would get involved and they have basically unlimited funds also and they would want the Big East involved basketball wise. With the Big East you're also dealing with major TV markets in New York, Philly, DC and Chicago. Especially if St. John's , Georgetown and DePaul get good again. That's why it is so important to the Big East to have those schools step it up right now.

I also think that part of the lure of the NCAA Tournament is the small to midsize schools that play in the tournament and the whole underdog aspect that those schools take on. Having those schools is what drives up viewership so that everyone is watching. Even someone who is not really a sports fan will watch and root for their school. If you take that away, the entire tournament loses a certain appeal that is has that draws viewership to it from the everyday person. But, I understand, if the answer to the question doesn't concern money them rephrase the question because everything is about money. That's why in the Big East we need our largest market teams to be really good and we need FOX on our side. We'll see how it plays out. All the best.[/quote]

2032. Well, I guess I don't have to worry about the future of college basketball; I'll either be long gone or totally out of it by then.[/quote]

Red, I think you will still be wearing red and loving the game of basketball no matter what age you will be.
Old-People-Playing-Basketball-Photography_5.jpg
[/quote][/quote]
Where'd you find that? It's my SJU senior-year intramurals photo ... which for some reason they kept out of the yearbook.
 
Per Goodman
Rick Pitino hires agent, tells ESPN he wants to coach again and will turn everything - phone records, emails, voice messages - over to any school that wants to hire him:
Balls of an elephant
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=275985]Per Goodman
Rick Pitino hires agent, tells ESPN he wants to coach again and will turn everything - phone records, emails, voice messages - over to any school that wants to hire him:
Balls of an elephant[/quote]
I dislike Pitino as much as the next guy. However, look at what has happened. Most of the guys "implicated" have skated free the best I can see. Arizona? Why they will be dancing! Their is no justice... He just might get another job. I can see him saying F-it its all ok. why should I be punished everyone does it and who enforces anything!
 
Maybe before we hired Lavin. But the guy is now proven to have run a dirty program—whether he gets tainted with that or not. Doubt he’d deign to coach St. John’s—not enough bucks in the Endowment Fund for him to take.
And I wouldn’t want the guy on our sideline.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=275991]Maybe before we hired Lavin. But the guy is now proven to have run a dirty program—whether he gets tainted with that or not. Doubt he’d deign to coach St. John’s—not enough bucks in the Endowment Fund for him to take.
And I wouldn’t want the guy on our sideline.[/quote]

Nothing has been “proven” in a court of law, by the NCAA (insert joke here), just by Louisville Administration and probably (and most likely) the court of opinion (which includes me who thinks he is dirty).

Any team asking him own is running a big risk, face a lot of condemnation and backlash against that program and the school itself. Have to weigh if it is really worth it.
 
[quote="Sju grad 13" post=275990]I would take Pitno in a heartbeat. Especially him knowing his way around the Northeast ( recruiting wise).[/quote]

I hope your joking. I’d rather have to join the MAAC then hire that fraud.
 
Add North Carolina State to the list of schools that have been subpoenaed in the Justice Department's ongoing investigation into college basketball. Latest story with @TheWillHobson:
 
[quote="Sju grad 13" post=275990]I would take Pitno in a heartbeat. Especially him knowing his way around the Northeast ( recruiting wise).[/quote]

Uh, I still kinda like the guy we got. Just saying...

Chris has lots to prove, but we're making progress. And I'd rather have a guy who loves the school, loves the city and is driven by values that go beyond a buck.
 
[quote="SJU85" post=275992][quote="Chicago Days" post=275991]Maybe before we hired Lavin. But the guy is now proven to have run a dirty program—whether he gets tainted with that or not. Doubt he’d deign to coach St. John’s—not enough bucks in the Endowment Fund for him to take.
And I wouldn’t want the guy on our sideline.[/quote]

Nothing has been “proven” in a court of law, by the NCAA (insert joke here), just by Louisville Administration and probably (and most likely) the court of opinion (which includes me who thinks he is dirty).

Any team asking him own is running a big risk, face a lot of condemnation and backlash against that program and the school itself. Have to weigh if it is really worth it.[/quote]

You’re right—not proven in a court of law.
Just ran with my emotions.
To me, and many others, the guy is already ‘guilty’. That’s not ‘fair’— but there’s s reason for that.
Some of its envy I suppose, but, to me, the guy has always dissed St. John’s and so, I’ve never liked the guy.
 
[quote="firestorm" post=275996][quote="Sju grad 13" post=275990]I would take Pitno in a heartbeat. Especially him knowing his way around the Northeast ( recruiting wise).[/quote]

Uh, I still kinda like the guy we got. Just saying...

Chris has lots to prove, but we're making progress. And I'd rather have a guy who loves the school, loves the city and is driven by values that go beyond a buck.[/quote]

Beyond the buck??? I love Mullin but he’s getting paid 2 million dollars a year and he never coached before. He didn’t give us a discount.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=276001][quote="firestorm" post=275996][quote="Sju grad 13" post=275990]I would take Pitno in a heartbeat. Especially him knowing his way around the Northeast ( recruiting wise).[/quote]

Uh, I still kinda like the guy we got. Just saying...

Chris has lots to prove, but we're making progress. And I'd rather have a guy who loves the school, loves the city and is driven by values that go beyond a buck.[/quote]

Beyond the buck??? I love Mullin but he’s getting paid 2 million dollars a year and he never coached before. He didn’t give us a discount.[/quote]

What kind of a ‘discount’ would a guy with CM’s resume get—even to a job he has no direct experience in? He’s a ‘brand’. NBA HOF. Dream Team Star. NBA career executive. A rep as a gym rat and a guy that through ‘hard work’ overcame so-so ‘natural ability and who has ‘no quit’ In him.
Plus, consider his ‘value’ to St. John’s as our best player in the school’s history and his loyalty to the school, his ties to Louie, his rep in the business of basketball.
The University ‘family’ hired their ‘shining’ star for $2mm/year.
Agree ‘no discount’.
And he has yet to field and coach a winning team—which he must do next year, or the honeymoon would be over.
(I think and hope that he will.)
But while there was no discount for his services—I think it was a fair price at the time, considering his ‘brand’.
 
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[quote="firestorm" post=275996][quote="Sju grad 13" post=275990]I would take Pitno in a heartbeat. Especially him knowing his way around the Northeast ( recruiting wise).[/quote]

Uh, I still kinda like the guy we got. Just saying...

Chris has lots to prove, but we're making progress. And I'd rather have a guy who loves the school, loves the city and is driven by values that go beyond a buck.[/quote]

Most of us, in our heart of hearts, would not be comfortable or satisfied winning by cheating. Another virtue of SJU and Chris Mullin - imperfect though they may be.
Grateful that we are moving, honestly, in a positive direction.

Postscript:
Lou Carnesecca, Former St. John's Head Coach (1965-70; 1973-92) and 1992 Naismith Hall of Fame Inductee
On Chris Mullin as a head coach:
"It's a glorious day. I can't tell you how I feel about it, but I think everyone on the East Coast feels the same way, and maybe even around the country. I don't have to talk about what he has done, but there is one thing I want to say. I know he will make us proud."
 
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[quote="Mean Gene" post=276001][quote="firestorm" post=275996][quote="Sju grad 13" post=275990]I would take Pitno in a heartbeat. Especially him knowing his way around the Northeast ( recruiting wise).[/quote]

Uh, I still kinda like the guy we got. Just saying...

Chris has lots to prove, but we're making progress. And I'd rather have a guy who loves the school, loves the city and is driven by values that go beyond a buck.[/quote]

Beyond the buck??? I love Mullin but he’s getting paid 2 million dollars a year and he never coached before. He didn’t give us a discount.[/quote]

Not saying Chris treats us like a charity. You want a big name, you have to pay...

But Pitino's only loyalty is to the next big payday. He's proven over and over again that he'll walk out on his "dream job" for one dollar more.
 
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