More Bad News Coming?

[SJU1512]

We don't need another guard at all Jordan and Harrison should and will play the majority of the minutes with branch getting minutes as well. That's a solid 3 guard rotation and we still have Felix. We just need to concentrate on bigs now.

Problem is the perception to potential recruits that we are a program in free fall...we have beatn his deficiencies to death on these boards...But, Phil, if used properly, was an asset...He is, after all, the only relatively consistent 3 point threat left on the team...Not his fault that he was not used properly...

and he seemed like a good kid and team player (never saw him pouting on bench in the games when he was pulled)...

Very well said and spot on. Phil Greene was not the problem. The way his coaches used him was, and I think that frustration caused many to direct it towards Greene because he was being asked to do more than he was capable of and often came up short. As many others who have had direct contact with him have said, he is a great kid, and he certainly seems it. As you noted, he never sulked when things didn't go his way in a particular game and was always one of the first ones up excited about the team's play.

His leaving unfortunately has a positive component because it helps Lavin get out of his own way, which is absurd to have to say about a coach at this level when talking about a useful player transferring. However, his departure is by far and away the most concerning thing that has happened this offseason, and perhaps in Lavin's entire tenure here. There was a rational explanation for everything else that happened (whether it seemed like the right decision or not or whether you agreed with it or not). A player who was receiving more PT than he deserved, who has one year of eligibility remaining, and who probably will not land at a significant program (not that we are, but it will likely be a lateral move at best) is alarming to the umpteenth degree. We don't need to wait and see how this plays out, no matter who we bring in - it's already being played out. Something has or continues to go wrong behind the scenes with the current program.

 

[TobinGrad]

The real question is why is the admin dragging their feet?
Archie Miller should already have been announced as the new coach and maybe Obekpa would still be here as a result.

 

[paultzman]

We don't need another guard at all Jordan and Harrison should and will play the majority of the minutes with branch getting minutes as well. That's a solid 3 guard rotation and we still have Felix. We just need to concentrate on bigs now.

Problem is the perception to potential recruits that we are a program in free fall...we have beatn his deficiencies to death on these boards...But, Phil, if used properly, was an asset...He is, after all, the only relatively consistent 3 point threat left on the team...Not his fault that he was not used properly...

and he seemed like a good kid and team player (never saw him pouting on bench in the games when he was pulled)...

Very well said and spot on. Phil Greene was not the problem. The way his coaches used him was, and I think that frustration caused many to direct it towards Greene because he was being asked to do more than he was capable of and often came up short. As many others who have had direct contact with him have said, he is a great kid, and he certainly seems it. As you noted, he never sulked when things didn't go his way in a particular game and was always one of the first ones up excited about the team's play.

His leaving unfortunately has a positive component because it helps Lavin get out of his own way, which is absurd to have to say about a coach at this level when talking about a useful player transferring. However, his departure is by far and away the most concerning thing that has happened this offseason, and perhaps in Lavin's entire tenure here. There was a rational explanation for everything else that happened (whether it seemed like the right decision or not or whether you agreed with it or not). A player who was receiving more PT than he deserved, who has one year of eligibility remaining, and who probably will not land at a significant program (not that we are, but it will likely be a lateral move at best) is alarming to the umpteenth degree. We don't need to wait and see how this plays out, no matter who we bring in - it's already being played out. Something has or continues to go wrong behind the scenes with the current program.

Spot on.

 

[1and1sju]

The real question is why is the admin dragging their feet?
Archie Miller should already have been announced as the new coach and maybe Obekpa would still be here as a result.

Lavin still has $3 or $3.5m left on his contract.
As someone told me recently, the school has offered employees voluntary buyouts for the second time in the last 5 years to cut costs. Buying coach out will be very costly, and the University isn't swimming in extra cash.
Plus, there is no President in place, and that means even if there was money available to fire Lavin, it would have to go through about 10 people instead of needing just one person to sign off on it.

 

[basketballjones]

What's the chances that some players went to the AD and said if he's coaching here we're out?

 

[TonyinFairfield]

The real question is why is the admin dragging their feet?
Archie Miller should already have been announced as the new coach and maybe Obekpa would still be here as a result.

Lavin still has $3 or $3.5m left on his contract.
As someone told me recently, the school has offered employees voluntary buyouts for the second time in the last 5 years to cut costs. Buying him out is costly.
Plus, there is no President in place, and that means even if there was money available to fire Lavin, it would have to go through about 10 people instead of needing just one person to sign off on it.

With declining enrollment, the school will not hit its enrollment targets for the next few years. Hence the need to cut costs through the buyouts. And there may be more efforts made to reduce expenses. This is not unique to SJU.

I don't understand why the delay in announcing the new President. Simon is going to get it so they should just go ahead and name him so he can resolve the issues with the basketball program one way or another.

 

[salty dog]

The real question is why is the admin dragging their feet?
Archie Miller should already have been announced as the new coach and maybe Obekpa would still be here as a result.

Lavin still has $3 or $3.5m left on his contract.
As someone told me recently, the school has offered employees voluntary buyouts for the second time in the last 5 years to cut costs. Buying him out is costly.
Plus, there is no President in place, and that means even if there was money available to fire Lavin, it would have to go through about 10 people instead of needing just one person to sign off on it.

With declining enrollment, the school will not hit its enrollment targets for the next few years. Hence the need to cut costs through the buyouts. And there may be more efforts made to reduce expenses. This is not unique to SJU.

I don't understand why the delay in announcing the new President. Simon is going to get it so they should just go ahead and name him so he can resolve the issues with the basketball program one way or another.

The new Big East contract insures St. John's of nearly 2 million more per year than previously, for the next ten years.,roughly 5 million per. Certainly the basketball program is on solid footing.
UCONN is getting only 60% of that for football and basketball.

 

[1and1sju]

The real question is why is the admin dragging their feet?
Archie Miller should already have been announced as the new coach and maybe Obekpa would still be here as a result.

Lavin still has $3 or $3.5m left on his contract.
As someone told me recently, the school has offered employees voluntary buyouts for the second time in the last 5 years to cut costs. Buying him out is costly.
Plus, there is no President in place, and that means even if there was money available to fire Lavin, it would have to go through about 10 people instead of needing just one person to sign off on it.

With declining enrollment, the school will not hit its enrollment targets for the next few years. Hence the need to cut costs through the buyouts. And there may be more efforts made to reduce expenses. This is not unique to SJU.

I don't understand why the delay in announcing the new President. Simon is going to get it so they should just go ahead and name him so he can resolve the issues with the basketball program one way or another.

The new Big East contract insures St. John's of nearly 2 million more per year than previously, for the next ten years.,roughly 5 million per. Certainly the basketball program is on solid footing.
UCONN is getting only 60% of that for football and basketball.

That doesn't mean that all of that goes back in to athletics.

 

[panther2]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

 

[room112]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

Not buying this AT ALL! Those players you mentioned "ahead of him on the depth chart" were on the team last season, and that didn't matter when it came to Phil's minutes. Many times we played a 3 guard lineup, and you can't say that Jamal was ahead of him on the depth chart when it came to Lavin. He loved Greene.

 

[basketballjones]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

But the way the roster is now 4 guards have to be playing a lot of minutes at the same time. He would get plenty of time on the current roster. Your post is probably correct, but it's more than just Jordan and Branch passing him on the depth chart.

 

[cappy105]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

good point. feel for the kid, but we are a mess. Point being that mass transfers look horrible for recruiting....btw whats the deal with Darrick Wood ?

 

[TonyinFairfield]

The real question is why is the admin dragging their feet?
Archie Miller should already have been announced as the new coach and maybe Obekpa would still be here as a result.

Lavin still has $3 or $3.5m left on his contract.
As someone told me recently, the school has offered employees voluntary buyouts for the second time in the last 5 years to cut costs. Buying him out is costly.
Plus, there is no President in place, and that means even if there was money available to fire Lavin, it would have to go through about 10 people instead of needing just one person to sign off on it.

With declining enrollment, the school will not hit its enrollment targets for the next few years. Hence the need to cut costs through the buyouts. And there may be more efforts made to reduce expenses. This is not unique to SJU.

I don't understand why the delay in announcing the new President. Simon is going to get it so they should just go ahead and name him so he can resolve the issues with the basketball program one way or another.

The new Big East contract insures St. John's of nearly 2 million more per year than previously, for the next ten years.,roughly 5 million per. Certainly the basketball program is on solid footing.
UCONN is getting only 60% of that for football and basketball.

That doesn't mean that all of that goes back in to athletics.

Exactly!

 

[Ray Morgan]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

Nearly every player Lavin recruited seemed to have a me first approach from day one. There have been suspensions and attitude problems that started with Nuri and gained steam since then. We are not talking one bad apple here. Even Pitino couldn't get into Derrick Caracter's head enough to fix him. We are talking almost everyone except Gift and a few others. Lavin's the coach, so the responsibility lies with him. Lavin recruited these guys, so it was his job to fix the bad habits and get them to understand it's team first, not me first. He failed. No major program would put up with this. Unfortunately, SJU's decision makers don't consider this to be a major program anymore.

 

[1and1sju]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

Panther, I know you mean well, but...

 

[SJU1512]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

You are definitely correct that Phil's minutes were cut (from 33 last year to 25 this year). But it's still difficult for him to be in any sort of position to be unhappy. Everyone's minutes were cut this year as we had a deeper rotation. He started 28 of 32 games, more than any player but Dee and Jakarr. His 25 mpg were 4th on the team behind Dee, Jakarr, and Sheed, and he was only 1 mpg behind Sheed. Basically, he was being treated like one of the best players on the team which he was not.

Unfortunately, to the detriment of the team's success, Branch had nothing to do with Phil getting less minutes, even though he should have. Branch started 7 games and played 14.5 mpg, good for 8th on the team. This is going to sound overly simplistic, but Phil played more than he deserved and Branch less, and if just this one equation had been resolved to where they were both playing what merit dictated we probably dance this year. Greene played almost 350 more minutes than Branch, which is a huge sample size and a lot of production was lost in that space.

 

[Section3]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

good point. feel for the kid, but we are a mess. Point being that mass transfers look horrible for recruiting....btw whats the deal with Darrick Wood ?

opted to transfer in advance of committing

 

[SJU14]

I, of course, am very sad to see these guys leave. They all helped our team out in different ways. But I'm still optimistic about this team if we add ADR and Thomas. College basketball is a guard driven sport and we have arguably the best backcourt in the BE. We just need bigs that will snag rebounds and fill up space. Look at UCONN, for example. They are a guard driven team with very skeptical bigs. Now at the end of the season, a couple role players step up for a game or two and they are in the National Championship.

Also, if you look at the guys that have left, we have lost the three guys that were the major cause for our weak half court offense. Obekpa had his obvious flaws on offense, Sampson rarely passed once he got the ball inside the arc, and Greene was a player that dribbled without a cause and didn't have an impact unless it was a catch and shoot situation (which rarely happened because we don't run plays). So maybe having a constant three guard lineup with RJ, Harrison, and Branch (where I feel we played our best anyway) will benefit us the most.

Then if Pointer plays at the level he did during his sophomore season (which I think is possible because of the increased playing time) and the hopeful additions of the 2-3 bigs, I think many of us will be surprised next season. This shorter rotation will eliminate Lavin's famous bad starts and give guys a defining role on this team (like Providence).

And also, clearly the "athletic" team makeup we had wasn't working. Maybe the new bigs we bring in will have more of a hard working mentality with a good idea of their roles.

 

[gman]

In regards to Phil leaving, the answer is very simple and many on here have actually stated it. However with the animosity towards Lavin and his staff, posters would rather blame them. Once Nuri left during Phil's freshman year, Phil became a starter by default. His only competition was Malik Stith who eventually quit the team. He also started during his sophmore year and posters on this board killed him for being an ineffective East/West player.
This year because of Rysheed and the emergence of Jamal Branch his minutes were cut. Phil has aspirations of wanting to continue playing after college and may be able to have a career overseas. Taking a rational look at the situation he sees D'Angelo, Rysheed, and Jamal ahead of him on the depth chart. No one with aspirations wants to go into his senior year as the fourth guard. It is as if his career is going backwards.
I can understand everyone's frustration with the past season. However, please look at things objectively and come to rational conclusions rather than throw everything at Lavin and see what sticks.

So he didn't want to improve in the off season and compete for minutes? He would have gotten plenty of minutes and had a chance to showcase his skills to the overseas market.

 

[Knight2]

Lavin must have a press conference soon. Does Fran fraschilla get a 2nd chance if Lavin is out?